Mini 1009 ÔÇô Popularity mafia (Game over - Mafia wins)


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:32 pm

Post by nopointinactingup »

Cuetlachtli wrote:
nopointinactingup wrote: + Isn't this just full of exagerated emotion or what? You could just have said his argument was flawed because 1> 2> 3> ... I'm just noting how strongly affected you are by his accusation.

+And #175, what I meant was that you don't seem to see anyone as a townread.

+ Lurkers are terrible and the major source of my pain in previous games. So I'm totally for putting pressure on them to produce content.
Ok I asked you to highlight moments of derision and emotional outburst. Here is what you came up with...

Exemptions / Already underlined in stock post


forgot and No Scum Hunting

What NoPoint Underlined as "Derisive or an Emotional Outburst":

My Responses are in Italics


1. OMG, your Crap-Logic™ is nauseating.
This is my thesis. Maybe I could have said "Your logic is flawed, here is why" and been less dramatic, but that is my play-style. Regardless, this is probably the most "emotional" part of my post.


2. Reaching for straws.
This is part of my argument on why Ecto's logic was bad. There is nothing derisive or emotional about it.


3. And again, more reaching for straws.
See above.


4. Again this is more Crap-Logic™.
See above.


5. This series of questions are inherently primed for failure.
This is a statement in my argument that is supported by the subsequent text. Nothing derisive or emotional in this statement.


And that is it! I asked you to highlight moments of derision and outbursts of emotion and you came up with ONE borderline emotional statement! Therefore, your point about me being "emotional, contemptuous, or derisive" is moot. You and other players are welcome to try again.
2. Reaching for straws.
This is part of my argument on why Ecto's logic was bad. There is nothing derisive or emotional about it.

OH Yes there is.
--> If you think Ecto's logic was bad, it doesn't mean it IS bad so accusing others of reaching for straw is completely disregarding the opinion of others = derisive. You COULD HAVE just said you disagreed with Ecto's flawed logic.

3. And again, more reaching for straws.
--> See above

4. Again this is more Crap-Logic™.
--> See above + repetition

5. This series of questions are inherently primed for failure.
This is a statement in my argument that is supported by the subsequent text. Nothing derisive or emotional in this statement.

--> You don't call someone's post a failure when you don't mean to deride someone.

It depends on each person's viewpoint Cuet. Obviously you are too stubbornheaded to admit that you acted all emotional so you try to explain it as it sees fit for you. It is not just your wording that made me think you were emotional but also your repitition of those phrases.
+ Isn't this just full of exagerated emotion or what? You could just have said his argument was flawed because 1> 2> 3> ... I'm just noting how strongly affected you are by his accusation.


I did say Ecto's argument was flawed because 1> 2> 3>. Please reread my post carefully. Actually, before you reread my post, read Ecto's ISO 0, 7, and 8 so you know what I am refuting.
But the point is that pretty much added comtempt and emotional responses to your argument, which makes it sounds overdramatic.
+And #175, what I meant was that you don't seem to see anyone as a townread.


Your backpedaling and straw man fallacies are noted. There is a big difference from what I actually did in post #175 (or Cuet ISO 14) and what you accused me of doing. In other words...
Backpedalling my ass. Calling every player a scum = has no town read. AND AGAIN, I DID NOT ACCUSE YOU OF CALLING EVERY PLAYER SCUM, get that in to your stubborn head.
1. You accused me of this:
Calling every player scum.


2. On the other hand, this is what I actually did:
Call five players scum, and give null reads on the rest.


Now you are saying that post #175 was fishy because I didn't give any town reads?! Since when should a town player be required to give town reads? At the time of that post, half the players in the game had posted little to no content. I think my null reads were justified because of that.
1> :roll:
2> You forgot to mention that you were saying the nulls are likely to be scum :roll:
Cuetlachtli wrote:
Now you are saying that post #175 was fishy because I didn't give any town reads?! Since when should a town player be required to give town reads? At the time of that post, half the players in the game had posted little to no content. I think my null reads were justified because of that.
Point out where I said it was fishy. Here I'll do it for you:
nopointinactingup wrote:
Cuet
: His #72 is terrible. I'd expect a town to play on either side of OGMUS-ing or responding lazily. Instead, he retorted with an emotional outburst. His arguments are okay, but the unnecessary amount of derision and makes me think there's also scum harboring hatred towards his attackers in his reply.
His #175 is basically calling everyone scum
,
which I do not think a scum would really do
. However, it could be a gambit and Cuet stays 2nd on my suspect list.
Cuet is unlikely connected to Ecto.
And as to your argument about me being a popularity guy:
nopointinactingup wrote:*roll eyes*I hate to argue with you if it's emotional or not because obviously you will just argue on and on.
But to me, the repition and wordings do look like an emotional outburst.
( as it looks for anybody else besides you)
And as for your scum reads. Did you even notice I'm not accusing you of it?! I even said the fact that you have no town read implies that you are town. You are freaking over your head being paranoid if you are town and are digging your own grave if you are scum.
I have my own opinion too sir. And you conveniently left out that sentence in your ISO to blindly pursue your point. So I'd say your entire case is flawed, very flawed :roll:. I'd say your arguments are inherently primed for failure, pun intended.


Vote count
(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(4) ChannelDelibird – Simenon, Tazaro, nopointinactingup, Cuethlachtli
(3) mothrax - scotmany12, ChannelDelibird, ZONEACE
(2) nopointinactingup – mothrax, Korashk
(1) Simenon – tumescence
(1) Korts – Thief
(1) Cuethlachtli – Blackberry

Not voting:

:arrow: Day 1 – (Deadline is August 10)

Last edited by Johoohno on Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:27 pm

Post by Cuetlachtli »

nopointinactingup wrote:2. Reaching for straws.
This is part of my argument on why Ecto's logic was bad. There is nothing derisive or emotional about it.

OH Yes there is.
--> If you think Ecto's logic was bad, it doesn't mean it IS bad so accusing others of reaching for straw is completely disregarding the opinion of others = derisive. You COULD HAVE just said you disagreed with Ecto's flawed logic.
Let me redefine the Strawman Fallacy for you:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Ecto was badly misrepresenting position and had unfair expectations for me. Seeing this bad logic, I proceeded to shred it apart in full. Though I guess you can say I ridiculed his logic by calling it crap, I would say the rest is a thorough refutation.
Nopoint wrote:5. This series of questions are inherently primed for failure.
This is a statement in my argument that is supported by the subsequent text. Nothing derisive or emotional in this statement.

--> You don't call someone's post a failure when you don't mean to deride someone.
The initial statement is that, a statement. It would have been derisive if I had said something like "This series of question are inherently primed for failure because Ecto is a f***ing idiot who probably dropped out of high school, thus he lacks the mental power to ask questions that are primed for success."
Nopoint wrote:It depends on each person's viewpoint Cuet. Obviously you are too stubbornheaded to admit that you acted all emotional so you try to explain it as it sees fit for you. It is not just your wording that made me think you were emotional but also your repitition of those phrases.
Yea you, Sim, and Ecto have all used the repetition argument. Ecto misrepresented my entire argument, saying that I was whining about him being unfair. You, Nopoint, think repetition = emotion. An idea that doesn't make sense to me. Sim said that repeating the word "unfair" made me look desperate. How could I be desperate when I didn't even have a vote on me at the time? This is an example of flailing and desperation:

Billy has 6 votes on him and it takes 7 to lynch. Timmy found a way to break the game via mass claim, and the claims implicate Billy as the last scum. "OMG why are you guys voting me? I haven't done anything wrong. Its so unfair. I have been nothing, but be pro-town all game. Its unfair I tell you. This is f***ing stupid."

There is a big difference between what I did and what Billy did. Billy thinks the circumstances surrounding him are unfair. I thought Ecto's expectations of me were unfair.



Nopoint wrote:Backpedalling my ass. Calling every player a scum = has no town read. AND AGAIN, I DID NOT ACCUSE YOU OF CALLING EVERY PLAYER SCUM, get that in to your stubborn head.
How is saying "#175 is basically calling every player scum" not accusing me of calling every player scum?

Nopoint wrote:2> You forgot to mention that you were saying the nulls are likely to be scum :roll:
You are misrepresenting what I said. My gut scum reads were five players, but I recognized that I could be wrong and some of the lurkers could be scum. I didn't explicitly say that all 11 players were scum. This is another example of you reaching for straws (Strawman Fallacy).


Nopoint wrote:And as to your argument about me being a popularity guy:
nopointinactingup wrote:*roll eyes*I hate to argue with you if it's emotional or not because obviously you will just argue on and on.
But to me, the repition and wordings do look like an emotional outburst.
( as it looks for anybody else besides you)
And as for your scum reads. Did you even notice I'm not accusing you of it?! I even said the fact that you have no town read implies that you are town. You are freaking over your head being paranoid if you are town and are digging your own grave if you are scum.
I have my own opinion too sir. And you conveniently left out that sentence in your ISO to blindly pursue your point. So I'd say your entire case is flawed, very flawed :roll:. I'd say your arguments are inherently primed for failure, pun intended.
In the previous quote in Cuet ISO 35, I did keep your ISO 8 intact. However, I left it out of the second quote in order to be more concise and precise in my argumentation.


You see Nopoint, you keep misrepresenting my arguments to try and make me look bad, while purposefully ignoring my valid points refuting your arguments. You never responded to my justification for having no town reads at the time. Instead, you keep repeating that "all scum reads + null reads = NO TOWN READS." No shit sherlock. But does doing so make me town or scum, or does it have no implications at all?

I can make the same argument on repetition. Did repetition occur? Yes! Was it scummy? Well not from my point of view. I was pointing out that Ecto's logic was bad, and I wanted to make sure that even the stupidest player could understand this. But, as it turns out, the stupid players, presumably, didn't read my post because it was, ironically, too long.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:33 pm

Post by Cuetlachtli »

Nopoint, is this logic map valid or not? If not, explain why it isn't valid in detail.
Cuetlachtli wrote: In respect to your ambiguous read on me, you are backpedaling hardcore. Allow me to show you the progression of the backpedaling:

Nopoint ISO 1
Nopoint wrote:His #175
is basically calling everyone scum
,
which I do not think a scum would really do
.
However
, it could be a gambit and
Cuet stays 2nd on my suspect list.
Nopoint accuses Cuet of premise A (underlined), but premise B says that scum sometimes won't do premise A (Italicized).
However, Nopoint gives position Y (bold) that Cuet is scum because of premise A could be a gambit [premise C].

Cuet ISO 26
Cuet wrote:In response to your description of #175, notably where you say "
basically calling everyone scum." Actually, I only called 5 out of the 12 players scum, explicitly. Half, as you know, is significantly less than all.
Cuet states premise A is wrong because it didn't occur in post #175.
Since premise A didn't occur, it is inferred that premise C is invalidated.
Therefore, position Y is false.

Nopoint ISO 6
Nopoint wrote:+And #175, what I meant was that you don't seem to see anyone as a townread.
Nopoint adds premise D, a distorted version of premise A, to position Y.
Presumably, Nopoint still thinks Cuet is scum.

Cuet ISO 31
Cuet wrote:There is a big difference from what I actually did in post #175 (or Cuet ISO 14) and what you accused me of doing. In other words...

1. You accused me of this:
Calling every player scum.


2. On the other hand, this is what I actually did:
Call five players scum, and give null reads on the rest.


Now you are saying that post #175 was fishy because I didn't give any town reads?! Since when should a town player be required to give town reads? At the time of that post, half the players in the game had posted little to no content. I think my null reads were justified because of that.
Cuet refutes premise D.

Nopoint ISO 8
Nopoint wrote:And as for your scum reads.
Did you even notice I'm not accusing you of it?!
I even said the fact that you have no town read implies that you are town
.
Nopoint gives position Z in bold (a distorted version of position Y).
Position Z includes premise B (italics), but lacks premises A, C, and D.
Position Z states that Nopoint never used Cuet's reads as evidence that Cuet is scum, which is contradictory to position Y.
Position Z makes Nopoint's stance on Cuet ambiguous.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:24 pm

Post by Blackberry »

Cuetlachtli wrote:Since ChannelDeliBird lives in the UK, presumably, he is most likely asleep right now. Thus, I am going to assume that he isn't going to post anything of value before the deadline, which is tomorrow. While I would rather lynch Nopoint today, CDB is seemingly our only viable lynch option, and since the cost-benefit of him being lynched is fair given his content (or lack of), I am going to vote to lynch him.

unvote, vote: ChannelDeliBird


Disclaimer: The deadline is set for around noon, my time, tomorrow. Since I work full-time, it will be unlikely for me to read any new posts of CDB, no matter how brilliant they may be (see CDB iso 2, 3, 6 & 7), tomorrow morning.
Your over-explanation of why you are voting for CDB almost seems like you are bussing him to make yourself look better. This makes me think CDB will be a good lynch and he will turn up mafia. And re-reading, my drunkness said he was mafia too *crosses fingers* (I have no idea how accurate my drunk intuition is, but this is a chance to see if one of my mafia guesses was correct).

I was about to vote CDB too, but then I realized there's still time for him to do the very least and post some content that could be valuable in his death.

I will wait to see if CDB has any last thoughts.
If you are town CDB
, please atleast post your thoughts, suspects, accusations, etc, before deadline. That way atleast we have a view from a verified town's opinion out of your death.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:11 pm

Post by Simenon »

Access is spotty for me. I continue to support the CDB lynch. given that we have no other viable option, and I'd rather not repeat Day 1's lurkfest.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:38 am

Post by Tazaro »

I know about Korashk's game play. I would think his game play would make him vote for ChannelDelibird to put pressure on him.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:24 am

Post by Cuetlachtli »

Blackberry wrote:Your over-explanation of why you are voting for CDB almost seems like you are bussing him to make yourself look better. This makes me think CDB will be a good lynch and he will turn up mafia.
I believe I started the CDB lynch wagon. Thoughts on that BB?
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:54 am

Post by ZONEACE »

I really don't like this wagon. I'm usually always for a Lynch the Lurker philosophy, but in this instance the posts CDB has made ring town for me.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:04 am

Post by Simenon »

ZONEACE wrote:I really don't like this wagon. I'm usually always for a Lynch the Lurker philosophy, but in this instance the posts CDB has made ring town for me.
Would you prefer not to lynch? Deadline is in two hours.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:32 am

Post by ZONEACE »

Simenon wrote:
ZONEACE wrote:I really don't like this wagon. I'm usually always for a Lynch the Lurker philosophy, but in this instance the posts CDB has made ring town for me.
Would you prefer not to lynch? Deadline is in two hours.

I would prefer not to lynch CDB. And I won't. I will not help lynch someone I believe to be town.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:12 am

Post by Tazaro »

About 75 minutes before the deadline.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:43 am

Post by Johoohno »


Final vote count Day 1
(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(4) ChannelDelibird – Simenon, Tazaro, nopointinactingup, Cuethlachtli
(3) mothrax - scotmany12, ChannelDelibird, ZONEACE
(2) nopointinactingup – mothrax, Korashk
(1) Simenon – tumescence
(1) Korts – Thief
(1) Cuethlachtli – Blackberry

Not voting:

:arrow: Day 1 – (Deadline is August 10)



Night 1
[/size]
The town finally decides on lynching ChannelDelibird, though without enthusiasm or consensus. As is expected he turns up town.


ChannelDelibird,
Townie
, lynched Day 1

It is now night and all townies should send in a person they want to grant night kill immunity (see rules for proper format, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR YOURSELF), and mafia may discuss in their given thread and then PM me the person they want to night kill.


Deadline night 1: August 13
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:52 am

Post by Johoohno »

Day 2
[/size]
When morning breaks you find that Korashk doesn’t join you.


Korashk,
Townie
, killed Night 1.

Day two is a-foot. With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch before deadline.


Deadline is September 3
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:20 am

Post by Tazaro »

lynching the lurker CDB is making me draw a blank right now. I'd like to hear from Cuet in particular about his thoughts for day two.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:55 pm

Post by Cuetlachtli »

Tazaro wrote:lynching the lurker CDB is making me draw a blank right now. I'd like to hear from Cuet in particular about his thoughts for day two.
Umm, why do you want to hear from me in particular?

My suggestion for Day 2, vote who you think is scummy.

I still think Nopoint is scummy. Therefore....

vote: nopointinactingup
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:59 pm

Post by ZONEACE »

vote: Mothrax
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:00 pm

Post by Tazaro »

cuet, I wanted to hear from you cuz urr good on content.
Vote: mothrax
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:00 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Vote: mothrax
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Post by tumescence »

Will post by tomorrow night; just really busy right now.
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:17 pm

Post by mothrax »

wow... l-3 within 5 posts in d-2... awesome...
I still find the ecto/nopoint/docwhatev slot scummy...
VOTE: nopointactingup
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:21 pm

Post by mothrax »

Also, Taz, why vote for me when as far as I can recall I have not once been on your given list of suspects and you even defended me at one point?
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:37 am

Post by Tazaro »

I looked at the suspicions of other people on you, mothrax. You are rightfully suspicious.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:47 am

Post by Tazaro »

Double post: I have learned to hate certain aspects of Saturdays.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:12 am

Post by Thief »

(4) ChannelDelibird – Simenon, Tazaro, nopointinactingup, Cuethlachtli
(3) mothrax - scotmany12, ChannelDelibird, ZONEACE
I think all we need is right here depending on mothrax's flip.

I'll start here:
Simenon wrote:
ZONEACE wrote:I really don't like this wagon. I'm usually always for a Lynch the Lurker philosophy, but in this instance the posts CDB has made ring town for me.
Would you prefer not to lynch? Deadline is in two hours.
Any reason you pushed the notion that it was either lynch CDB or nothing? Because mothrax could've been lynched with one vote move. Thoughts on that slot?
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:37 am

Post by Blackberry »

I may have limited access these next few days, or
I may be V/LA till Monday Night.


xoxo

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