Mini #1004 - Popularity Mafia (Over)

[Friend]

VOTE: vollkan

I saw his avatar in the queue. I don't like Miles Edgeworth.

And Andrius, we can be friends!

[Friend]

You seem like a cool dude though. Still in HS?

[Friend]

Oh...
I was gonna ask but I didn't want to rolefish. Why do you feel the need to out that so early?

[Friend]

No, I didn't want to rolefish. If I had gone ooh Andrius tell me more about your unpopularity I guarantee someone would have called me out for rolefishing. Just wanted to make sure you were okay with saying your unpopularity publicly before I said anything.

[Friend]

I'm still curious to the reasoning behind the soft VT claim. Generating discussion doesn't seem to be enough.

[Friend]

Okay, okay. I'll shut up.

I'd like to hear others' opinions on this situation though. What do you think about Andrius' popularity claim?

[Friend]

Andrius and others: What are the pros and cons of a mass-popularity level claim? I'm fairly new to this whole thing so if this is a dumb idea please tell me

[Friend]

I know that a mass popularity number claim wouldn't be hugely beneficial in terms of scumhunting, but it would help ensure success at neighborizing. That's all I wanted to get.

[Friend]

I agree with vollkan completely. That's what I had in mind when I suggested it. And I highly doubt that the level of popularity is tied to anything (PR-ness, alignment) so I don't think claiming it is rolefishing, like you said xite. Also, xite, why do you think scum would be able to fool a townie in the QT, when if they're that good at playing scum, they'll probably just be fooling them in the thread anyways?

I think it would be best that everyone at night talks to the one who is just one step under them in the popularity scala, so that everyone (save nr.1 and nr.12) has 2 neighbors and there is no one who doesn't have a neighbor...

I like this idea too. But yeah, we should wait 'til everyone's said their piece on the matter before we start claiming numbers.

[Friend]

I think most of us are in favor of this...so who wants to start? Andrius and then we can just popcorn from there, or go by the playerlist, or have everyone shout it out at once, doesn't really matter.

[Friend]

Okay, I guess so.

I think once we get flips though, its going to be tough to remove the influence popularity from scum-hunting. I think it will be hard to ignore it completely.

What do you mean by this? Hopefully the popularity factor helps us scumhunt - why would you want to ignore it completely?

[Friend]

Alright.

I'm ranked

eighth

in popularity.

[Friend]

I don't think speculating about the possibility of popularity-changing roles does any good. If someone's popularity gets changed overnight, they need to say so.

[Friend]

Well, okay, let's say I get bumped up to 7th overnight. I'd say so, we'd change the rankings. I don't think it would necessarily out a PR - the person who did the changing would keep quiet and that would be that. I'd assume the role, if it even exists, could probably use the popularity-upper on himself, so the scum couldn't use PoE to figure it out either.

[Friend]

I understand your point, I suppose. Of course, this all assumes such a role exists - all of this could be useless.

[Friend]

I don't like how Tasky brings up IIoA and then posts a handful of IIoA. It's hypocritical.

[Friend]

@Andrius - Information Instead of Analysis.

@Tasky - huh?

first, I'd like to bring up the good old IioA-point... we shouldn't worry so much abut the setup...nobody would be so stupid to fake a popularity change, that could so easily be verified, it would just out them as scum... so even if there are popularity-manipulating roles, I really don't see the problem...
and I really don't see the big power of such (hypothetical) manipulating roles you attribute them...

second, I am ranked

eleventh

in popularity

third, please don't talk about other games if they are not relevant to scumhunting in this game

As I saw it, this was IIoA. You writing out the list, while helpful, was also IIoA.

And why would you like to start a wagon on vollkan, who has arguably been one of the most pro-town players so far in this early game?

UNVOTE: vollkan
VOTE: Tasky

Here's a wagon we can talk about.

[Friend]

Tasky, what do you hope to acheive with your wagon? There's nothing vollkan can defend himself from. I mean, my vote was on there cause of a Phoenix Wright-related avatar. Wagoning for the sake of wagoning isn't going to accomplish anything. Now, wagoning some scummy, like yourself, can.

[Friend]

You writing out the list, while helpful, was also IIoA.

lol... no... go reread the IioA definition

What? I think you need to reread it, my Friend.

Tasky, why did you self-vote?

[Friend]

Xite, what do you think about Tasky wagoning for the sake of wagoning?

[Friend]

Xite, what popularity level are you?

@Tasky - What did you expect to achieve with your vollkan wagon?

[Friend]

Oh, sorry, didn't catch it. I was looking for numbers.

[Friend]

Andrius - Tasky, if he doesn't get lynched, might be a good call. Talk to him in private, see if you can get more info on him.

@MOD: If I successfully neighborize someone, and that person also successfully neighborizes someone, do we get a three-way quicktopic? Or is it two separate two-way QTs?

[Friend]

No, quicklynches would be bad.

Xite, why does it look like we're going to lynch Tasky? We're only 4 pages in.

[Friend]

Kay. Sarcasm's hard to read on the internet

[Friend]

Longing, what popularity are you?

[Friend]

Tasky, what information have you gathered from the attacks on you?

[Friend]

I thought Andrius was softclaiming VT with this:

If I were popular, it would be more of a PR than a unpopular person, so I would have been hesitant.

Other than that, I don't really get your case on me. It would be poor modding to tie popularity levels to PR-ness, IMO (as in the top 3 most popular students are PRs, the bottom 3 are scum, whatever).

I called vollkan pro-town because that was the feeling I got from him. Nothing more, nothing less.

I asked you the question because you hadn't mentioned Tasky up to that point, just voted him for the sake of "helping push him."

Do you find me asking for the popularity claim scummy? I don't see why it would be.

[Friend]

I said "arguably." There's a difference.

How would PRs be based on popularity? That makes breaking this game way too easy.

Oh shit, just looked at the game and I think I mixed it up with another I'm in for votes...
so yeah

Unvote: Vote Tasky

I'll help push him

You voted him here, which was immediately after your post where you mentioned self-voters.

I was talking about this question:

Xite, what do you think about Tasky wagoning for the sake of wagoning?

I still don't get the case by the way. Calling someone pro-town is not a scumtell, what I did was not rolefishing, and other than that...I don't think you have anything.

[Friend]

I agree with Max.

Xite, I got my order of things mixed up then. Sue me. I wanted to know your opinion, that's the point.

[Friend]

My mind has changed over the course of the game. It happens. People made logical, convincing arguments as to why certain things were/weren't true (popularity-PR link, the "one person below you idea"). I agreed with them. Since when is that a scumtell?

[Friend]

LOL

Quote-by-quote:

1. RVS comment
2. He was the only one posting in-thread at the time
3. He volunteered to claim first
4. ??? That's not buddying
5. Agreeing with people...whoa
6. See above
7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town. That's the only one that I guess could be buddying, but even that is not a scumtell.

No AtE (show it to me) and no buddying. Get your facts straight.

[Friend]

How isn't buddying a scumtell? Is that your question?

And you have a wrong definition of AtE btw. Agreeing with people is not AtE.

[Friend]

Xite's case is laughably poor, but I'm not entirely sold on him being scum yet.

[Friend]

- Do you feel that The Player one above you on the ranking list is scum?
- If you had to choose now who would you lynch?
- Who do you think is most town at this time?

1. Seraphim: He really hasn't made enough posts to get a read on him. I don't feel he's totally scummy (yet) but I dislike his lurking.

2. Right now, I'd lynch Tasky. I didn't like his "let's start a random wagon" philosophy and his posts still give me a scummy gut feeling. Xite...I'm a little torn on. His case is weak, but I can see it coming from a misguided townie as well.

3. Most town..hm. I'd say vollkan, Max, and Andrius. It's only been 7 pages, though - those rankings'll probably change.

[Friend]

Nicol, the only problem with that is Max is using those questions to help him scumhunt. Let's say Max is town. He'll give his honest opinions and then scum will probably say something along those lines because they know that's what Max would want to hear. Answering his own questions ruins the whole point.

[Friend]

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: xite91

This is too soon for claiming. While I still think Tasky is the scummiest, we need to talk more. Sando seems a little too aggressive.

[Friend]

Oh, should have explained the xite vote - he's my second suspect, mostly for the extremely poor case he laid out on me + pushing said case after I explained why it was poor.

[Friend]

Aggressiveness is not bad, but I think Sando is being a little overagressive. Scum is usually more aggressive than town.

8 pages in is too soon to be seriously considering a lynch, IMO.

[Friend]

Although, now reading back, apparently this is Sando's meta. Forget I said anything about the aggressiveness.

[Friend]

Xite, please read me in ISO. I'm on my iPod now so it's really hard to quote, I've addressed why your case is so poor, not just ignoring it, like you said. I addressed each instance of "buddying" one-by-one. You seemed to have missed it.

[Friend]

Hey Vasude, welcome to school.

@vollkan: I addressed that in a later post, essentially taking back what I said about Sando. I realize his aggressiveness is a style and a big fat nulltell.

[Friend]

Tasky I don't know if anyone told you this, but Sando's reference to xite's textwall didn't mean all textwalls were scummy. He just meant that specific wall.

Your points are not very well thought out, in my eyes. It seems more like you picked the person who made the weakest case on you and went after them for wagoning. Wagoning is not necessarily a scumtell.

[Friend]

Hey Vasude, is the slight suspicion towards me based only upon the "it's too soon for claiming" quote? Why does that quote sit poorly with you?

And no, not an alt, just a brother with an account and lots of games at epicmafia. People keep asking me though...guess I'll take it as a compliment. And no, I don't know what 20th century boys is, sorry

[Friend]

xite, you didn't even respond to my last post. You saying I'm ignoring or shrugging off your case is a blatant lie.

Also:
UNVOTE: xite91
VOTE: Tasky

I'll put more pressure on. I think VV has a point about xite's overeagerness.

[Friend]

Okay cool, I didn't want an accidental hammer either.

And xite, the one before that.

[Friend]

Read again. I responded to your quotes one-by-one, showing how each wasn't buddying.

Also, that was your defense is a little more solid.

I assume this is some sort of typo - what were you trying to say here?

[Friend]

Sando vs Tasky was similar to one game of mine where skilled scum(SpyreX) pressured a newbie into slipping up until his lynch.

If you're using this situation as an example, the newbie in that game was town. Yet here, you think Tasky's scum. Do you think Sando is bussing? Do you think if Tasky flips town, Sando is scum? I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at.

Friend

1. Seraphim: He really hasn't made enough posts to get a read on him. I don't feel he's totally scummy (yet) but I dislike his lurking.

2. Right now, I'd lynch Tasky. I didn't like his "let's start a random wagon" philosophy and his posts still give me a scummy gut feeling. Xite...I'm a little torn on. His case is weak, but I can see it coming from a misguided townie as well.

3. Most town..hm. I'd say vollkan, Max, and Andrius. It's only been 7 pages, though - those rankings'll probably change.

What, "let's start a wagon" is a scum tell? I thought that bandwagons were a good way to start every game (hint: they are). Now don't think I'm being patronising or anything but read the first 5 pages in most games and they start bandwagons for the most redundant reasons. That isn't scummy.

Okay. So you are following to town, and providing no cases on your own. How about you make a case on 1 player that isn't Xite91 and Tasky. You can use the presumption that one of them is scum if you wish. I just want to see you make a case on someone. Thank you

As to the first part, I sort of understand. The whole thing just felt off to me.
As for the second part, I'll do it but I don't really understand the point of the exercise. Why make a case I don't necessarily believe in?

3. friend, some things that I really dislike

xite, you didn't even respond to my last post. You saying I'm ignoring or shrugging off your case is a blatant lie.

Also:
UNVOTE: xite91
VOTE: Tasky

I'll put more pressure on. I think VV has a point about xite's overeagerness.

I don't like this post too... first he goes to push the xite case further, then he unvotes him... then he agrees again with the case on xite...

I agreed with VV's defense of xite, saying that he was a little too overagressive for noobscum.

this seems like he wants to "casually" vote me, hoping someone will hammer soon...
especially after having stated this:

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: xite91

This is too soon for claiming. While I still think Tasky is the scummiest, we need to talk more. Sando seems a little too aggressive.

this looks like the classic show "don't lynch yet, talk more" to earn town-cred... it's not bad by itself, but in conjunction with the previously quoted I really don't like it
in general, I have to say I liked the case against friend... after Sando, he is my second scum-pick atm

I have to go now, I'll submit since I don't want to get hammered before I get to post something...
if I come back and am still alive, I'll try to post more stuff you can work on once I'm dead...

What do you mean by classic "don't lynch yet show" to earn town-cred? Where has this happened in games of yours?

What about the case on me did you like?

By the way, I really don't like Tasky's heavy AtE in these posts - all the talk about "stuff to work on once I'm dead" just feels desperate.

[Friend]

If you say telling not to quicklynch is a nulltell, then why do you think my motivation is scum-based? I got back on the wagon because I felt enough time had passed and you were acting just as scummy. My thoughts on xite were also somewhat swayed by VV.

What, specifically, about the buddying argument do you like? Do you realize that I've shown how all of xite's examples were extremely poor?

[Friend]

Xite, besides me, who do you think is scum?

[Friend]

How come you find the time to tunnel incessantly on me, but yet can't make a case on anyone else in the game?

P.S. Max I'm getting to your requested case too. Just give me a little time, it's too late tonigHt.

[Friend]

I'm not averting attention, I'm trying to stop your useless and misguided tunneling.

And 10 pages isn't enough for you to make a case on anyone else? Seriously?

[Friend]

Andrius, between me and xite, who is scummier?

[Friend]

No, I'm not tunneling because I am looking at other people, you're just top on my priority list.

No, you are tunneling because you've said yourself that you can't make a case on anyone except me even though it's been 10 pages.

And i like this next post where you're attempting something that seems like a straw-man like omgus... it's interesting

What? Explain this cause I don't understand. You just threw out a whole bunch of buzzwords and then used "interesting" which means nothing. Interesting how? Scummy?

[Friend]

Huh? You reiterate that xite is avoiding you and agree with a new point about xite, but instead you jump ships, coincidentally to the largest wagon on the vacuous ground of "pressure". +3

The point I agreed with was that xite was too eager and aggressive to be newbscum. Townies avoid people too - it was more a matter of defending myself than saying xite is scummy.

And yes, I usually find tunneling scummy.

[Friend]

I haven't seen evidence of that - therefore, you're tunneling.

[Friend]

@Mod: I'm really sorry, but could you replace me?