Newbie 976 - Game Over.

[Framm 18]

Oh, and this was also bothering me, NS.

It's your blatant attempt at stifling discussion.

I don't know how you can honestly accuse me of stifling discussion - I think I've been pretty damn active in the short time I've been here.

I hate having to keep doubleposting like this but things keep popping into my head and I feel I gotta share 'em. Sorry if it makes the thread hard-to-read or my thought process seem somewhat disjointed.

I can't answer the first part, but I understand where you are coming from on the second part.

I know what you mean, I have a tendency to do try and go through all the possibilities, though I usually end up paying for it (either death or causing a goodie lynch (pardon the terminology, still getting used to it on here) that costs us the game). I have found that sometimes thinking too much is a bad thing for this game.

Oh and for the Aspen thing, I am not going to push it, but it would be nice if (s)he told us if it were a RL thing. It would help to relieve some of the suspicion, since right now we have to go on what has been said or not said in the thread.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 1.3

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

Nobody Special: 2: startansmission (2), Friend (17)
koch: 2: gandalf5166 (6), Aspen (13)
startransmission: 2: Framm 18(12), DavidParker (15)
gandalf5166: 1: theperson (7)
Aspen: 1: Nobody Special (16)

Not voting: koch

With 9 players alive it takes 5 to lynch. Currently Nobody Special would be lynched at Deadline. Deadline is 12:00 PM EDT/9:00 AM PDT on Saturday, July 17th. Countdown Timer.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[gandalf5166]

Actually, NS, I find it very strange for you to say that Friend has stifled discussion. This game was in it's death throes, and he revived it. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that that level of truth twisting merits a

VOTE: NS

And yes, I'm aware this puts him at L2, but I don't really think that it's a big deal, now that we're not in the RVS stage, especially since I've announced it.

[Friend]

To elaborate on my Nobody Special case, I want you all to look at him in ISO. This means go to the bottom of the page, hit Display posts by user: Nobody Special, and click Go.

Now, tell me - even though he has 14 posts, do you see any form of scumhunting in there whatsoever?

I’ll answer for you. You don’t.

The only thing that comes remotely close is this:

I think Aspen needs to get in here and contribute, and I think koch is neutral-to-scum.

@Friend: It's not your personal preferences that I'm commenting on. It's your blatant attempt at stifling discussion. (Okay. Now that we're done putting words in each other's mouths, can we move on? Good.)

Oh, look! A convenient appearance! Just after being spoken about!

Vote: Aspen

I’ve already explained the scumminess of those two posts, especially coming back-to-back. The read on koch was only given after I prompted him. Even though, he’s obviously shown that he has time to post, he’s put forth no effort towards finding scum and instead posts things like random questions and questions about mafia theory (asking ST about why a quicklynch is good for the town). He says he wants his questions to start discussion, but if I hadn’t called them out for being somewhat useless, there wouldn’t have been ANY discussion about the answers. He didn’t attempt to talk about other players’ answers to his questions and basically ignored them until I came in.

Anyways, NS, tell me: Who are your top two scumreads and why?

[koch]

@Friend- I switched my opinion after seeing other posts that changed my opinion of the intelligence of my actions.

Now im just being hesitant for the time being and i will give my assessment of the situation tomorrow. Ive been traveling all day and am mostly using my phone for internet access. i will try and get on sometime tomorrow.

I would like to thank Friend for one thing though, his entrance to the game has really gotten it moving .

[Friend]

@Friend- I switched my opinion after seeing other posts that changed my opinion of the intelligence of my actions.

What posts were these?

[startransmission]

Activity! Awesome.

Mod Note: It is worth noting that the comments DavidParker just made about the other game that he's in with startransmission are indeed more talk about an ongoing game that is allowed.

For the record, I have not been (in my recollection) in a game with DavidParker before. I have one other game going on currently, and he is not in it. I would not be inactive, nor would a game ever have successive quicklynches while I am the IC in it. Just saying. Furthermore, in 30 something games I have never seen a scenario as described by DavidParker in his post.

His reason for voting me is certainly weak, but I'll chalk it up to a semi-random one for the time being.

My brain is fried after 12+ hours of work, but I want to leave my initial thoughts of the posts made today. Friend is certainly not stifling discussion, and that comment is sticking with me. I would normally accuse Friend of being a bit overzealous, but I think this game needed a bit of overzealousness, and it's paid off in activity.

Oddly, it's not so much Friend's points against NS that put him on my scumdar, but how he's reacted. It's nothing special ( ), I'll elaborate tommorrow, and hopefully in *my* morning. Which means like 6 hours.

@NS, a small detail, but it's sticking. When you answered your own questions, you never answered what you thought of the RVS. But when you defended your RQS you mention how much you dislike the RVS. Why did you not answer that question in the first place? Why do you not like RVS? It should be pointed out that you cast the first vote, and offered no reason... meaning you initiated the RVS.

[Friend]

Overzealous! Hm. I guess I can tone it down.

[startransmission]

Overzealous! Hm. I guess I can tone it down.

Don't you dare. There are a couple of instances of you making more out of something than perhaps I would, but like I said, it's been good for activity. I've gotten less aggressive in the past few months, and perhaps that's not a good thing. Play your game, if anything I like the questions you're asking.

[Aspen]

What do you find scummy about Friend?

The way he casually voted for me then kind of went on to talk about something else.
But I see now his reasonings for NS. Pretty solid.

[Friend]

Okay

I'm looking forward to your elaborations on NS's reactions. Right now I'm really feeling scumvibes from him and I like knowing that it's not just my own dumb hunch.

[Friend]

Oh that last comment was directed at ST.

Aspen, what do you say to NS's and others' accusation that you only showed up when talked about?

[startransmission]

But I see now his reasonings for NS. Pretty solid.

Really? What do you like about his reasonings?

[Framm 18]

I have to agree with Startransmission on that. Beinging overlyaggressive can be a good thing, especially if you think that you have caught another player in something. I have seen a baddie/scum get called out and then they say a little defense and people then leave them alone. I have a habit of wanting to believe people in this game and that is normally a big no-no in my book anyways.

I will have to go back and reread some of the posts, to make sure that I have not missed anything.

UNVOTE: Just in case some scum want to take advantage of me possibly not being able to change my vote.

[Friend]

What do you find scummy about Friend?

The way he casually voted for me then kind of went on to talk about something else.
But I see now his reasonings for NS. Pretty solid.

And this is vaguely OMGUS. I asked you about the WIFOMy nature of the post, you didn't show up to answer it, I wasn't just gonna sit around and twiddle my thumbs waiting for your response. Your post was the first scummy thing that caught my eye, so I voted you for it. Other things have happened, I don't think it's as scummy anymore. But your OMGUS reasonings...eh.

[Aspen]

Oh that last comment was directed at ST.

Aspen, what do you say to NS's and others' accusation that you only showed up when talked about?

While I agree that it my showing up was rather convenient for me, he also didn't really give me a chance to talk more, he just kind of jumped the gun in what looked like an attempt to sort of "lead the charge" if you know what I mean.

[Aspen]

What do you find scummy about Friend?

The way he casually voted for me then kind of went on to talk about something else.
But I see now his reasonings for NS. Pretty solid.

And this is vaguely OMGUS. I asked you about the WIFOMy nature of the post, you didn't show up to answer it, I wasn't just gonna sit around and twiddle my thumbs waiting for your response. Your post was the first scummy thing that caught my eye, so I voted you for it. Other things have happened, I don't think it's as scummy anymore. But your OMGUS reasonings...eh.

What's OMGUS?

[Friend]

Oh My God You Suck. When a player votes another for no reason other than the first player attacked or voted the other. I feel you did that. However, looking back I can see it coming from a less experienced player regardless of alignment.

[DavidParker]

@NS: I think his very analytical style of play and the way he is very open with his opinions - ie: doesn't hide the fact he doesn't like your questions, gives me an initial town vibe from him. He hasn't been lurking/bandwagoning or any clear scum tells yet, and has created useful discussion for scum hunting.

[Friend]

DavidParker, I still can't find any instances of you scumhunting. Who is your biggest suspect and why?

Also, why is your vote still on ST? He's explained that the IC you're referencing wasn't him, and has proven to be a very not-useless IC, IMO.

[DavidParker]

Unvote: startransmission

I haven't scum hunted simply put. A few other games of mine are at a "crucial" stage where my activity and careful analysis is a "necessity" so I have slacked a bit in this game just because it's in very early stages.

My biggest suspect is currently Koch:
First post - OMGUS vote, putting gandalf on L-2. While it's obviously not a consistent or reliable statistic, I remember someone saying in another game according to bandwagon, most often 3rd on bandwagon = scum.
2nd - Explanation of his OMGUS, somewhat explains it.
3rd - THis one really seems scummy to me and is what has probably got me voting him. He's almost admitting to being against pro-town discussion and unvotes and states he will fence sit (yes i know, i'm somewhat guilty of this too, well the second part)
4th - More possible scum slipups in response to ST's questions [quote="ST]@Koch- In your opening post you didn't refer to the fact that your vote was putting Gandalf at L-2, but in your response to his question it sounds like you were aware. It's a small detail, but were you specifically aware at the time of your vote how many votes Gandalf already had? And what aggressiveness are you referring to?[/quote]

His response, he practically backpeddles and says it was only on the back of his mind. His response to NS's questions are no-tells.

Since this post he didn't post for a while, this is either a no-tell (there is legitimate reason behind his non-posting) or a scum-tell (active-lurking). Can't say right now.

VOTE: Koch

My vote was still on ST because I had simply forgot to put it there. To me it was no different to not having voted (considering there was no bandwagon on ST)

[Friend]

I haven't scum hunted simply put. A few other games of mine are at a "crucial" stage where my activity and careful analysis is a "necessity" so I have slacked a bit in this game just because it's in very early stages.

That's okay. It's understandable.

My biggest suspect is currently Koch:
First post - OMGUS vote, putting gandalf on L-2. While it's obviously not a consistent or reliable statistic, I remember someone saying in another game according to bandwagon, most often 3rd on bandwagon = scum.

Hm. Is this all you're basing the suspicion off of from the first post? Seems like kind of an odd tell.

2nd - Explanation of his OMGUS, somewhat explains it.

Was this explanation satisfactory to you?

3rd - THis one really seems scummy to me and is what has probably got me voting him. He's almost admitting to being against pro-town discussion and unvotes and states he will fence sit (yes i know, i'm somewhat guilty of this too, well the second part)

I somewhat agree, in that saying you want to stop being "in the thick of things" is fairly scummy. However, I don't know if a brand-new scum player would so openly say "I'm going to back off and stop discussing" when he knows that that'll probably be considered scummy. I'd like some other players' opinions on this too, but I just feel like that quote could come from an overwhelmed townie too.

4th - More possible scum slipups in response to ST's questions

@Koch- In your opening post you didn't refer to the fact that your vote was putting Gandalf at L-2, but in your response to his question it sounds like you were aware. It's a small detail, but were you specifically aware at the time of your vote how many votes Gandalf already had? And what aggressiveness are you referring to?

His response, he practically backpeddles and says it was only on the back of his mind. His response to NS's questions are no-tells.

I don't understand what you mean by backpedaling here. In my eyes, it seemed like he just kind of reiterated his position of "I want to be hesitant." Can you explain it a little more?

Since this post he didn't post for a while, this is either a no-tell (there is legitimate reason behind his non-posting) or a scum-tell (active-lurking). Can't say right now.

VOTE: Koch

Well, he did say he was traveling and such and could only use his phone for internet. I've done that before, and it's frustrating.

My vote was still on ST because I had simply forgot to put it there. To me it was no different to not having voted (considering there was no bandwagon on ST)

Okay.

So, what's the point of this post? I don't find you scummy for putting up the case, but I feel koch is being somewhat unfairly attacked here and I felt the need to step in and defend. I just think your scumhunting efforts would be better focused elsewhere (i.e. Nobody Special).

[DavidParker]

I'm awaiting to see the outcome of another game NS is in before I decide whether to tunnel him or not :p /jokes

[Friend]

Seriously though, what do you think of my NS case?

[DavidParker]

I think you bring up a good case this early against him and support your mission to further pressure him. With that said, I'm waiting for koch to reply to my post.

The other thing stopping me from voting him is I know he's currently in like 10+ games so devoting time to analyzing everything in acute detail and scum-hunting isn't really feasible. This early into the game a few posts to show you are here and active and involved may be an explanation for that. I think any case at page 4 on day 1 isn't going to be hole proof, you are never going to have a sound case as to why someone is scum this early. People just need to be pressured and discussion continued so you can get one. So continue on, friend!