Newbie 965 (Game Over)

[AGar]

@Agar
What made you cast the hammer only after wraith pointed something out?

Nothing that Wraith said.

I had had the intention of hammering for a while, but was waiting to give everyone a chance to put in their two cents. Everyone had pretty much agreed that DavidParker was too big of a distraction for the town and that he needed to get the axe if for no other reason then to remove the headache from the LYLO proceedings.

Now, I'm going to get to work on an iso of each player. There will be a wall of text coming up sooner or later from me.

[Wraith]

Upon re-reading the topic my suspicions on NS were based on what I perceived as buddying with mallow or DP. Since both of them flipped town, I think those suspicions are rendered moot. Other than that, I think the only gripe I have with NS is his play on Day 1, where he voted silverbullet for voting without analysis yet voted for me later on for voting with analysis.

I also had suspicions on AGar (outlined by myself and NS similarly during Day 2) based on a DP/AGar scumpair theory, but once again suspicions are moot since DP flipped town.

Basically, since my two top suspects (mallow and DP) both flipped town, the only person I really have any material on beyond association with scummy players is quadz.

[Nobody Special]

Good heavens. Well, there's a lot to look at.

tl;dr: Wraith is behaving very much like scum.

A deep analysis of Wraith. From the top:

@AGar: No, no suspicions. While waiting for my account to be validated I did some reading up in different games. I discovered that I'm not very good at spotting scum. At all.

Could be a smokescreen, trying to divert attention away from himself.

Also, the town should never never never NEVER no lynch on Day 1. In all variants of newbie games (Pie E7, C9, Original and the current F11 setup), when a no-lynch has occurred on Day 1, Mafia wins 15 out of 18 times.

Alright. My vote stands, then.

Potential acceptance of coaching (we'll revisit this when I do AGar).

My own little analysis:

Keeping it basic, we have 2 major feuds - mallow vs DP, and DP vs quadz.
DP is currently giving me a scum reading, as stated. Because I am assuming DP is scum, mallow gives me the "reckless townie" vibe, and quadz just the "wrongly accused" read. I get a pro-town feeling for Uite, definitely, since he seems to be trying to scumhunt like crazy. AGar is pro-town IMO, but I don't have much on that end. Haven't seen enough from NS to get a feel for his side.

I find it interesting that of the DP vs. quadz feud, Wraith finds DP scummy, but quadz as just "wrongly accused." Let's see where this goes....

Also, note Wraith correctly foresaw that Uite was town.

DP claimed? I thought that was hypothetical.

This made me pause when I first read it. I'll need to look at other players reactions to DP's "claim" (which we now know is false).

However, I am still confused as to whether DP actually claimed cop or hypothetically claimed cop.

Again: looks like scum desperately trying to ascertain whether there is or is not a cop. We may have a roleblocker here.

As for my address to mallow's "only mafia give reasons" argument, I'd have to say that both town and mafia do give reasons for voting, but scum players often slip up by overdoing it in their attempt to blend in.

Note this for potential use later.

@ Wraith, what makes you so sure mallow and I are different alignments? Just because we are the 2 most suspicious? I mean from my POV it's perfectly plausible that we are both town....

And as much as I'd like to pretend I didn't claim cop... If you go back and read you'll notice I did.

I'm also yet to really get any read from AGaR, which slightly worries me.

@DP: It's just my opinion. You two were going at it too much to just be two scum distancing yourselves from each other, and both players' responses had major scum readings. Hence, my belief that one of you is scum and the other is town.

@silver: I didn't want to end the day early. I put my vote down fairly early because DP was reading scummy to me.

Two things: 1) No response whatsoever to DP's outright admission to have claimed cop. My interpretation is that this is because Wraith is silently being grateful in "knowing" there is a cop. Let's see if Wraith starts looking for a doctor.

2) The note to SB: Here we start the 'overdoing' of the explanations.

More to come?

This entire post reads simply as a trumped-up case on mallow. It's barely coherent, and largely feels forced.

Anyways, my reads at the moment on everyone:

1. mallowgeno: scumdar shooting sparks
2. silverbullet: pro-town, scumhunter extraordinaire
3. quadz08: It's a toss-up, but doing that analysis (especially with mallow's vote against him) I'm inclined to think he was a townie who fell for buddying
4. Uite: pro-town, scumhunter
5. DavidParker: leaning pro-town, but he seems hell-bent on hunting for scum that aren't there
6. AGar: neutral. I think he needs to participate some more
7. Beefster: Leaning pro-town, need more posts to decide
8: NS: Leaning pro-town

What can we get from this?

A) Continued tunnelling on mallow (who we now know is town)
B) three town players, unknown at the time, are forecast as town (Uite, DP, NS --granted, only I *know* I'm town, but still)
C) Thor is missing. Perhaps in preparation for the upcoming kill?

And to reply to one of DP's earlier comments: of course it's beneficial to me to play stupider than I actually am initially. Yeah, I still am not the best scumhunter, but my scumdar wasn't made in 1942. I can see the obvious, and I can show the obvious to my comrades.

And yet, the "obvious" (mallow=scum) wasn't all that obvious. Perhaps time to find a scumdar repairman....
Unless, of course, the "obvious" thing here is trying to subtly communicate which wagon to be on to his fellow scummies.

@Beefster: I had suspicions on silver myself a while ago, thinking he could be scumteam with someone else (I think it was DP I was considering to be his partner). However, because a mallow/quadz or mallow/someone else scumteam is definitely more likely, I view silver as a very zealous scumhunter.

Look, more mallow tunneling.

Well, I tend to get concerned when I have two votes on me. I'd like to think you'd get concerned when a BW in the making is on you (and you did).

Two votes? This is still Day 1, I might remind you, and five votes were required. Also, Wraith then goes on to type thousands of words to support this 'case' against having two votes (using me as an example).

Also, bear in mind, from this post:

While mallow didn't confirm his VT claim until 2:35 pm, two people had asked for clarification as to whether that was a VT claim. Wraith was not one of those people.

Triple Post, whoops

@NS: For a long time I was totally certain that DP and mallow were in no way the scum team together (although one could be scum), but recently my faith in that theory has been shaken by DP's steadfast refusal to see mallow's obvious scumminess and his firm belief that mallow is town.

More mallow tunneling. This is getting to be a habit.

@Uite: Like I've said before, after re-reading the topic DP didn't actually act scummy until recently, so

I've believed his cop claim for a while now.

However, like I said, my faith in that claim might be slipping.

Also, if we keep evidence to ourselves, two things might happen:

1. We'll get voted by NS for keeping evidence to ourselves (although he doesn't seem to care either way, hypocritically enough)
2. There is no way a majority can be shown that someone is scum. Hell, even posting evidence there doesn't seem to be a way to show people someone is scum.

WAIT A SEC. This (bolded) from the guy who

repeatedly

had to ask whether the claim was serious?? Backtracking, big time.

@AGar: I have no other options. Whatever I say will just be discredited by simply being associated with me. Whatever. You wanna buy some ambiguous case on shaky "evidence," be my guest.

AtE. Never a good argument.

Finally, we're all back in business. I'm extremely disappointed with myself, though. All of that mind-numbing effort put into that analysis...to be wrong. It's just a slap in the face.

Hopefully we can get it right this time. At the moment my top suspects are DP and quadz.

Classic acknowledgment of dead townie from scum. And, oh look, we're back to suspecting DP

even though he recently said he believed his cop claim.

If AGar and DP are a scumteam then they're pulling a very wierd tactic. Do scumbuddies bus each other this early in a BW? Anyways, the only thing we know for sure about this game is that there are 2 mafia players still in the game. Nobody's claimed Doc, so for all we know DP is scum claiming cop because we're in a non-PR setup, and can get away with it without a CC.

There is just so much about this post that's wrong. Thinly veiled begging for advice on when to bus his scumbuddy, tunneling on DP after flipflopping on the belief of the cop claim, supposed knowledge of set-up. Stinks.

Okay, DP's latest posts are just screaming "Scum!" at me, and he's pushing some pretty convoluted logic/theorems/whatever to keep us from pinpointing his actual alignment. I think he's lying through his teeth.

Vote: DavidParker

Look, more tunneling!

Advice to scum!Wraith: Next time, try spreading around your accusations. It'll seem less scummy.

On point 5, I have already explained that I was exceedingly confused by people referring to you as a cop claim despite you only hypothetically asking what to do if you were cop. Again, you are selectively quoting me.

Complete misrep of DP; also mind-reading as to the rest of the player's and what Wraith thought we were thinking. Also, waffling.

[quote=""Wraith"]In conclusion, I'll say this - I don't know what everyone else might think, but I've played an honest game up to this point. I've stated my cases and opinions honestly and directly despite the fact that it might have made me look scummy. DP has played an extremely dishonest game, bouncing around with his cop-claiming, suspicions, OMGUSing, and the recent incredible web of lies surrounding his so-called "investigation results" and "roleblocking." His case against me relies on large amounts of selective quoting, as has been pointed out, and hypocrisy, especially in regards to his claims that I am scummy based on no matter I do, whether it's when I'm "fence-sitting" or pushing a case or "bandwagoning." He's clearly played the most dishonest game and has used the shakiest and/or hypocritical logic in all his cases against his endless suspects.[/quote]

Here, we see Wraith desperately latch onto DP's lying and manipulative tactics in order to say, basically, "See! I'm

better

than that!"

Please take careful note of Wraith's

very next post:

Geez, I take so long with my analyses. People keep posting in between!

@Thor:

On 2: I am referring to Day 2.

He maintained a cop claim

despite lying about having a result and then claiming roleblock.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Either he claimed, and you believe him, or he "hypothetically" non-claimed. Or next time, at least

take better notes

so you remember what you've lied about.

In all, heavy scum actions here.

Here would normally be a VOTE but it's still quite early. Wraith, any rebuttal?

[Wraith]

Gonna be blunt and say you're overanalyzing. My epic quest to uncover whether or not DP actually claimed was genuine confusion, not a devious plot to find the PRs. You're also seeing lies where there are none, most notably in regards to my acklowedgements of the cop claim, which were mostly well after DP claiming or not claiming was confirmed to me. To explain my actions regarding the cop claim in TLDR format:

1. DP sets up a series of hypothetical questions; People begin referring to DP as having claimed cop; I'm all like "were those claims hypothetical or real?" because whether or not he claimed would affect my voting
2. As mallow emerged as a scummier player I began to believe DP's cop claim based on their early Day 1 feud.
3. When mallow flipped town DP replaced him as my top suspect on Day 2. After all the drama around investigations and roleblocking I totally disregarded his cop claim as a lie. On your last point that was me stated HIS actions, not my own beliefs.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with the exact definition of "tunnelling." There's no article in the wiki.

[Nobody Special]

Tunneling is commonly accepted as when a player focuses solely on one person to the exclusion of everyone else.

It's especially noted when the tunneler brushes aside any possibility of any argument about any player other than their intended target (I'm not saying you're doing this last part).

[Wraith]

My tunneling mostly stems from the group dynamics of my top suspects throughout the game (mallow, DP, quadz). Suspecting one (mostly) cleared the others.

[silverbullet999]

I like nobody's case... though there are slight weak points here and there.

[AGar]

2 isos down, 2 to go. Expect my massive WOT to go up sometime around midnight.

[Nobody Special]

Oh, and my next iso is going to be on quadz. But not till tomorrow, sometime.

Looking forward to AGar's Wall.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 3.1:

Not Voting (5): silverbullet999, quadz08, Wraith, AGar, Nobody Special

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.

[quadz08]

I do think you made a good case, NS, even though there were some iffy points in it. I'm unsure if it would be helpful at this stage (with 2 players already doing isos) for me to do isos myself. On the one hand, it's good to get more perspectives, but on the other hand, I don't want to just repeat the same stuff other people have already said. Do you guys think it'd be beneficial for me to do isos?

[AGar]

Forward: It's usually not the best practice to put up an iso with EVERY post a player has made. Unfortunately, that was my notes, so you're getting every post. Sorry.

---

Player: silverbullet999
Posts: 60

ISO #1 - RVS shenanigans. Vote on Nobody Special.
ISO #2 - Answers Uite
ISO #3 - Advice to mallow, tells Uite to stop fighting with DP.
ISO #4 - Not pro-RVS. DP's arrogance doesn't fit a scumtell to him.
ISO #5 - Answers a lot of questions, asks some (loaded question though). Good pointing out DP's reaction to a little pressure.
ISO #6 - Points out quadz' ask for how to look town. Tells DP to cool it. Unvotes.
ISO #7 - Corrects unvote.
ISO #8 - Points out more flaws in quadz' logic. Points out mallow/Wraith rushing. Vote on Quadz
ISO #9 - Points out a Wraith contradiction. Hints at withholding evidence against another player (quadz)
ISO #10 - Explains his withholding of information against quadz. Although move was scummy to a certain degree, but has good points.
ISO #11 - Off topic.
ISO #12 - Explains a tactic he used vaguely to NS. Response to Wraith.
ISO #13 - Off topic.
ISO #14 - Asking wraith for clarification about a post off topic.
ISO #15 - Offers explanation to NS for plan.
ISO #16 - Reactions from quadz.
ISO #17 - Asks NS for top two suspects and opinion on his case on quadz.
ISO #18 - Pushing Wraith for contribution.
ISO #19 - Off topic.
ISO #20 - Saying will post later.
ISO #21 - Pushing against Mallow's defeatism. Asking beefster about vote hesitation. Poking at Wraith about reaction. Asks for top two suspects.
ISO #22 - Responds to Wraith's question about being viewed as scummy.
ISO #23 - Asks Uite for more aggressiveness.
ISO #24 - Back-and-forth about Wraith being offended.
ISO #25 - More pushing at Wraith about his over-self-defensiveness.
ISO #26 - Correction.
ISO #27 - Off topic.
ISO #28 - Asks if mallow is claiming VT. Asking Wraith about suspicions.
ISO #29 - Recants prior post.
ISO #30 - Pushing mallowgeno to get involved.
ISO #31 - More prodding at mallow.
ISO #32 - Wants top 2 suspects from quadz and beefster for not having votes.
ISO #33 - States disagreement with DP's hammer. Says Day 2 is going to be brutal.

End Day 1

ISO #34 - Goes after DP from the get go. Going to iso uite.
ISO #35 - Asks for any CCs.
ISO #36 - Off topic.
ISO #37 - Asks why no specifics for DP's result.
ISO #38 - Counters my reasoning, but agrees for time. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #39 - Discussion regarding DP.
ISO #40 - Off topic.
ISO #41 - Responses to DP's asking him about his ideas if he were scum.
ISO #42 - Off topic.
ISO #43 - Wants opinions from Thor and NS. Unvotes.
ISO #44 - Wants DP's explanation for hammering. Wants a reason why Quadz put DP at L-1 after people asked for time.
ISO #45 - Off topic.
ISO #46 - Lots of material in this one. A bit of joking with Thor, but mostly content about his feelings on DP, what he thought about mallow, pushing Wraith to get involved, listing of suspicions.
ISO #47 - Response to DP's claim that him and Wraith are opposite alignments. Agrees to my plan.
ISO #48 - Asks NS if he scumslipped.
ISO #49 - Had a good feeling about plan. Fine with DP lynch, but thinks he'll flip town.
ISO #50 - Points out a meta hypocrisy of NS's. Vote is on Nobody Special.
ISO #51 - More arguing the meta of NS.

End Day 2

ISO #52 - Sad about NK/confused about the flip.
ISO #53 - Says to be cautious with the vote.
ISO #54 - Delaying a big post for a plan. Asks for everyone's top two suspects.
ISO #55 - Explains plan in more detail.
ISO #56 - Points out NS's ignorance.
ISO #57 - More pointing out NS's ignorance.
ISO #58 - Big post of suspicions, thoughts and questions
ISO #59 - EBWOP.
ISO #60 - Askng for reasons from people. Specifically would like to see scummy posts from Wraith that NS posted.
ISO #61 - Likes NS's case, but sees weak points in it.

Thoughts: Has a lot to say and a lot to provide the town. Has kept active and objective throughout the game. Reminds me of an unrefined Thor665.

Perceived Alignment: Town

---

Player: quadz08
Posts: 44

ISO #1 - Pregame banter.
ISO #2 - Answering Uite's questions. States that general rules aren't a good idea in his belief.
ISO #3 - Disagrees with DP's reluctance to give up playstyle.
ISO #4 - Uncomfortable with DP's level of confidence, FOS.
ISO #5 - Asking for explanation of a random vote. Reacts to DavidParker's vote on him.
ISO #6 - Off topic.
ISO #7 - Asks definition of 'bandwagon' abbreviation.
ISO #8 - Won't commit to a vote and L-2 mallow. Cautious about a bandwagon too early.
ISO #9 - Says he's most suspicious of DavidParker, says he said why earlier in a fuller post.
ISO #10 - States we can no lynch.
ISO #11 - Apologizes for confusion/mis-interpretation.
ISO #12 - Accepts that NS's vote is random.
ISO #13 - Realizes what comment NS was talking about.
ISO #14 - Feels it's too early in the day to vote. Withholding vote because he wants to see what Drool says.
ISO #15 - EBWOP
ISO #16 - More fencesitting, justifying his position.
ISO #17 - Question to mod.
ISO #18 - Questions for Wraith, me, NS and SB. Then pre-empts potential questioning.
ISO #19 - More fencesitting. Asks how to not appear scummy.
ISO #20 - Defensive about accusations of asking how to not be scummy. Says finding suspects is an immensly difficult question. Feels bandwagons are scummy. Thinks DP is still scummy. Concerned that no read can be established on me. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #21 - Attacks SB about not answering questions.
ISO #22 - Follows up with a cover, asking SB to quote answers if they occured.
ISO #23 - Gets frustrated about not having a case against him but a vote on him.
ISO #24 - Backtracks, admits to SB's case. Plays newb card. Still has suspicions of DP and mallow but wants to sit back. Unvotes.
ISO #25 - Admits to being defensive/over-reacting to SB. Tells NS he doesn't necessarily believe that because someone is suspicious that he is right or they can't make good points.
ISO #26 - Off topic.
ISO #27 - When prodded about being on the fence, proceeds to take a stand. Vote is on mallowgeno.
ISO #28 - Tells SB that mallow is most scummy. I am ringing bells to him because of my activity and ability to stay out of the light.
ISO #29 - Reacts to how quick hammer came. Encourages mallow to help out.

End Day 1

ISO #30 - Hemming and hawing over a mislynch.
ISO #31 - Brings up a DP/me scumteam based off of my suggestion that the player DP investigated should not be revealed if he or she is not scum.
ISO #32 - Poking at DP's posts assuming a roleblocker.
ISO #33 - Talks about the benefit of a doc claim.
ISO #34 - Has a vaguely scummy read on me, no read on Beefster's slot. Thinks that DP shouldn't reveal his entire check. Said he was worried about accidental hammer early on so he FOSed.
ISO #35 - Goes after DP for a flip-flop. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #36 - Welcomes Thor to the game.
ISO #37 - Said he voted because he wanted people to know how scummy he thought DP was. Says DP over-reacted and was far from being lynched.
ISO #38 - Finds a lot of DP's post to be scummy. Buddies up to Wraith. A bit of weak chainsaw defence. Then... attacks Wraith for his offense = defense belief. Questions my plan.
ISO #39 - Top suspect is DP. Has no second suspect.
ISO #40 - Questions SB's vote on NS.
ISO #41 - Says he finds NS second scummiest.

End Day 2

ISO #42 - Off topic.
ISO #43 - Suspects are NS and Wraith.
ISO #44 - Says he doesn't think he should do isos because myself and NS were doing it. Says NS made a good case but has some iffy points.

Thoughts: Has yet to post his own thoughts on almost anything. Very cautious about fence-sitting, but has gotten on both wagons when a lot of steam had built up on them. Still, tough to read and see if this is scummy or new. Gut says scum.

Perceived Alignment: Scum

---

Player: Wraith
Posts: 68

ISO #1 - RVS. Vote is on NobodySpecial.
ISO #2 - Answers Uite's questions.
ISO #3 - Off topic.
ISO #4 - Asks for mallow's reasoning for voting DP. Unvotes.
ISO #5 - Thinks the game is rushing.
ISO #6 - Hates day one. Asks about a potential no lynch.
ISO #7 - No suspicions.
ISO #8 - Getting a bad vibe from DP. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #9 - Confirms vote based on no lynch statistics.
ISO #10 - Off topic.
ISO #11 - Answers DP's scenario questions and hypotheticals. Says he feels DP is scum, mallow is town, quadz is wrongly accused, Uite is pro-town. I am pro-town. Nothing for NS.
ISO #12 - Asks for confirmation on DP's claim.
ISO #13 - Would hammer DP because of flaming.
ISO #14 - Doesn't care which side DP is.
ISO #15 - Has played 3 or 4 games.
ISO #16 - Willing to rethink DP because of others' arguments and he has calmed down. Is suspicious of mallow. Attacks on mallow have shifted his reads.
ISO #17 - Unvote. Vote is now on mallowgeno.
ISO #18 - Feels DP and mallow were going at each other too much to be scumbuddies. Didn't want to end the day early, put his vote down with confidence.
ISO #19 - Doesn't think scum would lurk.
ISO #20 - Thinks my statistics may be scum subtly leading town to a mislynch.
ISO #21 - Clears up "misinterpretation" about how he would hammer DP for being a jerk.
ISO #22 - Doesn't like D1 because there is an argument about an argument.
ISO #23 - Off topic.
ISO #24 - Has nothing useful to contribute at the moment. Maintains his vote without putting forth any case of his own.
ISO #25 - Off topic.
ISO #26 - Off topic.
ISO #27 - Off topic.
ISO #28 - Says he would OMGUS, but mallow is scummier.
ISO #29 - Reacts to his accusers. Said he would vote for DP if mallow wasn't scummier, stating OMGUS and that DP's case is retaliation.
ISO #30 - Says he's not offended. Thinks DP is still retaliating.
ISO #31 - Off topic.
ISO #32 - Not going to defend his actions.
ISO #33 - Correction.
ISO #34 - Goes back to mallow, laying out a case. Case has many flaws. Big smokescreen.
ISO #35 - Asking why DP is trying to find holes in his case. Lists his reads.
ISO #36 - Says its beneficial to sandbag at the beginning of the game.
ISO #37 - Had suspicions on SB early on, but changed his opinion.
ISO #38 - Asking if quadz had voted.
ISO #39 - Defensiveness about cases building on him.
ISO #40 - Thinks that he has reason to be concerned about his bandwagon. Turns his attention to DP, slinging at him.
ISO #41 - Frustrated that people are going after him and not buying into his lynch of mallow.
ISO #42 - Off topic.
ISO #43 - Thinks DP's belief that mallow is town is a scumtell.
ISO #44 - Shifts his position on DP's cop claim. Goes against people withholding evidence.
ISO #45 - Gets frustrated about votes on him, tries to catch NS in a contradiction. Claims that simply lurking is the best strategy.
ISO #46 - Gives up. AtE.
ISO #47 - More AtE. Claims VT.

End Day 1

ISO #48 - Hemming and hawing about D1 mislynch.
ISO #49 - Off topic.
ISO #50 - Asking where Beefster and NS are.
ISO #51 - Asks about bussing early, suggest a DP/me scumteam.
ISO #52 - Confident about his vote for the day, but waits for NS/Beefster.
ISO #53 - Says DP's posts are scummy. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #54 - Doesn't want to hammer because Thor and NS have yet to post. Thinks quadz and NS would be his top two suspects if DP flipped town.
ISO #55 - Tries to defend his lurking by AtE, saying talking almost got him lynched, and he doesn't want to mislynch.
ISO #56 - Tries to explain why he felt a scumteam of me/DP. Piggybacks pre-established cases on DP to justify his vote.
ISO #57 - Defends his playstyle in a large post.
ISO #58 - Says he doesn't buy DP's cop claim because of no cop CC and no Doc claim. Tries to offset Thor's accusation by projecting it onto quadz.
ISO #59 - Claims his defense is OMGUS.
ISO #60 - Doesn't understand the mass claim plan.
ISO #61 - Accuses everyone of fencesitting.
ISO #62 - Adds in that quadz is also fencesitting. Tries to push a DP/me scumteam again.
ISO #63 - Top 3 suspects are quadz, NS and me.
ISO #64 - Off topic.

End Day 2

ISO #65 - Confusion over DP's flip.
ISO #66 - Quadz and NS are top two suspects.
ISO #67 - Now quadz is only suspect.
ISO #68 - Defends against NS's case by saying NS is over analyzing. Asks for definition of tunneling.
ISO #69 - Blames tunneling on his attempts at pairing.

Thoughts: Has flip-flopped the entire game, not choosing definitive suspects. Has sat on the fence a majority of the time unless prodded at, then decides to call players out via misrepresenting their stated intentions. Has used OMGUS as defense multiple times and has admitted to such. Has admitted to not putting forth content because he has nothing to add. Participation dropped heavily on D2 when he was fairly well out of the spotlight.

Perceived Alignment: Scum

---

Player: Nobody Special
Posts: 43

ISO #1 - Introduction. Answers Uite's questions. Random votes even though he states he dislikes RVS. Vote is on quadz08
ISO #2 - Says people shouldn't be too eager to vote. Wants DP to explain his confidence.
ISO #3 - Off topic.
ISO #4 - Clarifying a post to quadz.
ISO #5 - Disagrees with a lynch based on attitude. Asks if DP is claiming cop legitimately. Answers DP's question. Tells quadz he is not most experienced player here. Asks for opinions on DP's claim. Unvotes.
ISO #6 - Asks DP to stop with his attitude.
ISO #7 - Understands Uite's pushiness. Unsure about the claim.
ISO #8 - Notes mallow/quadz buddying.
ISO #9 - Believes David isn't scummy, just new. Feels quadz and mallow are scummier. Asks their suspicions. Vote is on mallow.
ISO #10 - Says he's not trying to avoid attention by voting mallow, just finding someone deserving of attention. Calls OMGUS.
ISO #11 - Says no one has reads on me or Drool at the time because of limited posts. Says quadz is over-complicating who his suspects are.
ISO #12 - Goes after SB for withholding a case. Unvotes. Vote is now on Silverbullet999.
ISO #13 - Worried SB is talking about an ongoing game in his ploy. Explains why withholding information is scummy. Points out that quadz used the reasoning of one player he finds suspicious to unvote another player he finds suspicious.
ISO #14 - Asks SB for what his findings in quadz' reactions were.
ISO #15 - Says SB's findings are sufficient.
ISO #16 - Says SB's case on quadz is a case. Top suspect is mallow. Unvotes. Vote is on mallowgeno.
ISO #17 - Defends his vote against mallow.
ISO #18 - Says he is not Oman, but his IC role does come before his game role, but he is still playing to win.
ISO #19 - Misses DP's sarcasm.
ISO #20 - Convinces mallow to participate.
ISO #21 - Wants to lynch mallow but thinks he is VT. My lurking is making me suspicious. Believes mallow's claim. Less suspicious of quadz because of it. Case on Wraith. Thinks tunneling on mallow is bad. Unvotes. Vote is on Wraith.
ISO #22 - Explains his vote on SB from earlier. Doubts DP's cop claim because of DP's insistence that mallow is town. Wants thoughts.
ISO #23 - Wants clarification for Wraith's accusation of his hypocrisy. Says what he does when he is mafia.
ISO #24 - Says tunneling and not sharing info are completely different things.
ISO #25 - Asks Mallow to explain Wraith claiming blue statement.

End Day 1

ISO #26 - Thinks DP is a scum false-claiming. Needs to look at a lot but needs iso function. Thinks there is a possibility that myself/DP are pulling a gambit.
ISO #27 - Notes L-1, asks for no hammer.
ISO #28 - Asks for more time, has work.
ISO #29 - Responds to Thor's post. Tries to force DP/me scumpair. Tries to mis-represent one of my posts. Wants more discussion before voting.
ISO #30 - Says my quote did not belong.
ISO #31 - Avoids further discussion on my accusation that his quote was still a misrepresentation.
ISO #32 - Denies a potential scumslip.
ISO #33 - More discussion on a me/DP scumpair, pushing the idea.
ISO #34 - Says DP is more trouble than worth, whether he is scum or town. Vote is on DavidParker.
ISO #35 - Off topic.
ISO #36 - Goes into last game details. Debates with SB about it.

End Day 2

ISO #37 - Asks no one vote, will be back to explain.
ISO #38 - Explains LYLO. Feels I am town, and SB is town.
ISO #39 - Accuses SB of skimming, says working on Wraith WOT.
ISO #40 - Realizes mistake. Top two suspects are Wraith & quadz.
ISO #41 - Massive case on Wraith. Only two notes on it - 1, most of us all knew Uite had to be town, or at least that's the impression I got. 2, Thor = Beefster.
ISO #42 - Explains tunneling to Wraith.
ISO #43 - Will be working on quadz iso tomorrow. Looking forward to this monster of a post.

Thoughts: I will admit the most challenging read for me in any game is an IC. The fact that they have the auxillary role is a pain in the ass for getting reads. That said, I have a muddled read on NS. He has his pro-town moments, and some big ones too. But the biggest issue I have with him is his IC role has managed to overshadow some points where I can't be sure. I can see why he was pushing the DP/me scumteam, honestly. I get a mostly town read from him, especially after the solid case on Wraith, but I'm still not 100%. There's one WIFOM moment in there that still has me second-guessing this.

Perceived Alignment: Neutral - Town

Other thoughts: 1. Quadz and Wraith were not the leaders on either wagon, both got on after each wagon had build up some steam. 2. They have interacted minimally within one another, which is potentially something that was planned, but neither has voted for the other. Wraith is only just suspicious of quadz in the recent few days, and he wasn't top suspect ever. Quadz is only suspicious of Wraith today, and behind NS.

I'd like to amend my top two to:

1. Wraith
2. quadz08

[quadz08]

That was... quite the post, sir. I'm impressed haha.

[silverbullet999]

@agar

ISO #56 - Points out NS's ignorance.
ISO #57 - More pointing out NS's ignorance.

My favorite part : D

Reminds me of an unrefined Thor665.

I am honored... I'm like the wolf while thor is the puppy?

OK OK in all seriousness, agar... fantastic iso. You get a few cookies here!

@Quadz, Wraith: Now, to me it looks like we'll either be doing a quadz or wraith lynch for day 3. Could always change but right now... quadz and wraith... if you would like to rebuttal... do so. If you would like to try to convince us that someone else should be lynched do so.

@Nobody : Get your isos up.

[AGar]

@quadz, Wraith: At this point, I don't see me lynching either NS or SB. Anything is open to debate, and something could obviously change, but right now both of you have topped them on my list of suspicions. Alternatively to what SB said, I want you guys to provide me with a reasoning why we shouldn't lynch you, and we should lynch the other.

[quadz08]

So, your biggest issue with me is a lack of content / opinions, as far as I can tell. While I’ll admit that I haven’t yet produced any in-depth analyses of anyone, I think I’m far from not posting my own thoughts. I will produce examples of my posts with content, as well as those I find from everyone else. I will be using only posts that have a pretty decent amount of personal opinion or analysis. Posts that are mostly intended as defense of self, or are questions for others, not opinions on them, will not be posted. Obviously, this is subjective, so I invite everyone to do the same.

quadz :
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2305505
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2306789
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2306879
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2315316
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2321134
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2324800

That’s 6 of 46 posts (13%) that have a pretty good amount of my opinion and thoughts on things in them.

Wraith:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2308650
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2313847
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2315797
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2324099

He has 4 of 69 posts (6%) with content, though 2 of them are fairly in-depth.

silver:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2309993
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2331598

These are the only 2 of his 64 (3%) that I think have much opinion in them. He has asked quite a few questions over the game, though.

NS:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2315761
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2321428
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2331734

NS has 3 of 43 (7%). However, one of those was quite long, and he has more isos on the way.

Agar:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2314409
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2316145
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2316347
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2320424
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2323474
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2324781 (this is his plan for a massclaim, which I am counting as an opinion)
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2332131

Agar has 7 of 39 (18%), including his massive wall o’ text o’ death.

Obviously, the percentages I have only take into account how many posts have been made, not how long or how much info was actually in them. However, I think it’s pretty clear that I can’t be called into question for content production.

I’d also like to make an additional point in my defense. The first time I was suspected (outside of DP’s insistence that I was scummy, based purely on my FoS of him) was this post

mallowgeno wrote:Quadz are you still on?

This, coupled with this:
mallowgeno wrote:
quadz08 wrote:@those who see me as scummy:
Can I get an explanation for it? I'm honestly confused as to why that vibe is coming off.


I agree completely with you quadz. I've been wanting one for some time now.


...leads me to think there could be a connection between you and quadz.

Just a note for later.

I think that I’m being considered as scum, in large part, due to the repetition of the idea that I’m scum. Now that this initial argument is proven untrue (since mallow is townie), I feel that there is very little actual reasoning to look at me scum. Here’s the wiki article (assuming the ‘wiki’ tag works): Argument from Repetition

Wraith has played very defensively. He reacted heavily to suspicion and votes, as well as focused pretty heavily on whoever had the most suspicion on them at the time.

I’m also looking at silver now. He’s managed to stay out of the spotlight, despite his very small amount of content production. By asking lots of questions, he’s also been able to ensure that others are the ones under that spotlight.

Is that a sufficient defense?

[AGar]

quadz, read your post. Have thoughts, but I'm refraining for posting them until Wraith responds. Otherwise, it completely ruins the purpose of my request.

Starting to get a decent idea about something.

[quadz08]

@AGar: Please, do not ask me to play your games by forcing Wraith and I to look at only one another. That's not scumhunting, it's just tunnelling two players at once. While I understand that we are the most suspicious right now, that is no reason to ask us to focus only on each other. In a LYLO situation such as this, it cannot possibly be productive to focus on only two players; rather, it seems to push an agenda towards lynching certain players.

[Nobody Special]

quadz, I, too, see your posts. I'm in the process of creating my huge promised wall on you. It's taking some time, as I have a little less free time than I did yesterday (but then you have fewer posts than Wraith, so it might even out).

It should be up in a couple of hours.

I am also interested in Wraith's opinion of quadz' latest posts. (And SB's, but that's less important.)

And, just a thought: I see how quadz could interpret AGar's request in that manner. However, if you'd (either of you) like to put in the effort to present a case on either myself, SB, or AGar, feel free. We're not stopping you.

[Wraith]

TBH I didn't expect an in-depth analysis from quadz like that (especially with stuff like percentages).

I have responses to these latest posts but I've been very busy over the last couple days and have been waiting for some other stuff to process.

[quadz08]

I'm planning on it; I don't know when it will be up, though. I'm currently taking summer school, so I'm pretty much out of commission in the afternoon, and then I have plans this evening. Tomorrow morning seems to be the most likely case. (I'm on Pacific Time, so it may not be until afternoon for some of you.)

[AGar]

@AGar: Please, do not ask me to play your games by forcing Wraith and I to look at only one another. That's not scumhunting, it's just tunnelling two players at once. While I understand that we are the most suspicious right now, that is no reason to ask us to focus only on each other. In a LYLO situation such as this, it cannot possibly be productive to focus on only two players; rather, it seems to push an agenda towards lynching certain players.

I'm not forcing you to do anything. I made a request based on an idea I had. You could have easily said no.

[silverbullet999]

Interesting posts, I'll hold off on commenting till the other replies are made, NS's iso is up, and agar does his request.

[quadz08]

@AGar: My apologies. I should have said "...by asking* Wraith and I..." That was poor wording on my part.

[Nobody Special]

Ah, alright. No, I'm not ready to put a third vote on somebody this early in the day; for now, I'll let mallow and Uite's votes speak for me.

Not good; even if not ready to vote, shouldn't ever let "someone else" speak for you. As townies, all we have is our voice and our vote. (Not overly scummy, possibly just newbish. First game here, and all.)

Also, this sentence: "if he turns out to be town I'd rather have him with us than other scum we could have lynched," will be true every time we lynch someone. We will never want to lynch a townie (barring strategies that I'm unaware of).

Another reason I don't want to vote for DP yet is because we have yet to hear from dRool. I think the input of someone who will hop in now could be helpful, and besides, he could very well turn out to be that "more clearly scum" person than I talked about.

Town++

@Wraith: If you don't think you have good scumdar, and a no-lynch is a viable option, why didn't you unvote? Is it just becuase of AGar's stats? (Which is reasonable, I think.)

Good question, and I can't recall, in reading Wraith yesterday, that it was ever addressed. So, Wraith.... ?

@those who see me as scummy:
Can I get an explanation for it? I'm honestly confused as to why that vibe is coming off.

Unlike others, I see this as a frustrated newbie question. (I'm not going to answer it, but I understand it.)

So I read through the game once more, this time with an eye towards my play, and I realize that what you said here is very, very true.

In addition, I realized I over-reacted to several things, and I've been playing very uptight all-around. I chalk it up to newbie jitters. I realize that doing this may immediately throw more suspicion on me, but I feel that I can ride that out until it passes.

I'm going to do my best to play looser, and not take stuff quite so... personally, for lack of a better word. I think not only will it improve my play, but it will help with scum-hunting.

Good. The main point here, after all, is to have fun.

@NS: My thoughts there are just that even though I find someone suspicious, it doesn't mean that a) I'm right or b) he can't still make good points.

Town+

I do think you made a good case, NS, even though there were some iffy points in it.

I'm unsure if it would be helpful at this stage

(with 2 players already doing isos)

for me to do isos myself.

On the one hand, it's good to get more perspectives, but on the other hand, I don't want to just repeat the same stuff other people have already said.

Do you guys think it'd be beneficial for me to do isos?

As a player, your input is necessary for helping shape the opinion of the town. The saying "two heads are better than one"? Yeah, that definitely comes into play here.

Second bolded question: Yes. Always.

math attack

Is that a sufficient defense?

It's certainly not what I'm used to seeing -- that doesn't automagically make it bad. I do applaud your effort; but it would've been much better (in my eyes) had you commented specifically on the content that you found (and, if I'm reading you correctly, you're planning that).

I'm planning on it; I don't know when it will be up, though. I'm currently taking summer school, so I'm pretty much out of commission in the afternoon, and then I have plans this evening. Tomorrow morning seems to be the most likely case. (I'm on Pacific Time, so it may not be until afternoon for some of you.)

We've got time.

---

So, to interpret that huge wordsalad, I have to back off of my earlier thoughts that quadz is scum. I think he's just got new-site jitters.

Barring any major revelations or slips by quadz or anyone else -- at this point I'm ready to lynch Wraith.

My earlier thought of a quadz/Wraith team are null now; the other team member must be either SB or AGar.

I'd like to hear Wraith's answer on the next post (hold your horses, it's coming), and I still need to iso AGar and SB.