Mini 992 - Mafia in Handsometown - Game Over

[ZeroFang]

His body was found in...

seven different places?!?

Let's see, he was found in seven pieces, so that's his head, torso, two arms, two legs, that's only six. What would the seventh...

OH GOD GET ME OUT OF HERE!

[ZeroFang]

Are you a liar? Sometimes.
Are you a good liar? I can be.
Is the sky really blue? No, that's how the light filters through our atmosphere at the angle it's usually at. You notice how sunsets are orange/red/yellow/purple. That's cause the sun is shining at a different angle.
Pickles or Pineapples? Pineapples for sure
Would you rather be Mafia or Town? They both have their perks. I don't have a favorite.

[ZeroFang]

He's probably trying to get a meta read on you. That's the info he's looking for. Whether or not it's accurate is a different story.

Personally, I forget my role when posting. I forget what side I'm on. That way, I can be very sure of myself when I say you won't be able to get a read on me. I'm also going to play like different people in different games, so don't be surprised at that. This is possibly the only game you'll actually get my personality directly. The other times I'm going to mask it heavily with "random" flair.

[ZeroFang]

Vote: mallowgeno

FoS: gonnano

I actually suspect gonnano more for the moment, but there's already someone voting for you. May as well not split up the votes and render them all useless.

Even if you (plural) aren't scum, your (plural) faulty logic is bringing the rest of the town down. You can lie about the answers to the questions. For instance, I lied. I prefer mafia by far.

[ZeroFang]

I was suggesting that mallow is trying to get a read on you, and by you I mean all of you. That likely was the purpose of his questions, both to get a meta and to scout for potential mafia (if he's town) or PRs (if he's mafia). I agree with you that his questions were bad if this is what he was trying to do.

With me, you're going to be dealing with someone who posts as if I'm in question too, because to all of you, I am. It eliminates the bias I might have if I were mafia, or if I were a power role, or if I were a SK, or even if I were a vanilla townie. The only reason I even brought that up was because of the (fail) RQS. Those are useless to get any sort of read on me. I'll answer differently every time, even if all other things are the same.

How is being able to be read ever pro-anything?

[ZeroFang]

If you're an obvious pro-town and the mafia have no lead on who's a PR, they're going to NK you (or they should) because you're one of the few people that the public is willing to trust. They aren't going to NK someone who's in question because it's relatively easy to persuade the town to lynch someone who seems suspicious.

Not to change the subject, but I would like to actually focus on the game at hand and not game theory. Perhaps we can start a topic in Mafia Discussion and get other people's input as well.

[ZeroFang]

Yeah, so EVERY town person should be as pro town as they can.

One player getting selfish and drawing suspicion onto themselves DOES NOT benefit town. Now, I don't see this as a scum tell, but I really hope you aren't town this game. Play to win, not survive.

See, but the mafia can also act pro town. Mafia blending in with the normal townies is a very bad thing. I wasn't getting everyone to suspect me (at least that wasn't the point). All of this is referencing games in general. It has nothing to do with this game specifically. You should forget this when voting because it isn't relevant. You may as well have read it in the mafia discussion (where we may take it).

The only things of relevance to this game I've posted are answering the questions, and a brief explanation on why they don't work on me. AGar went slightly farther and gave a brief explanation on why mallow's questions don't work at all. The rest of you have randomly voted and spoke meaningless banter of no importance. I find it funny how you say I'm a useless town player when you all haven't done s*** this game.

I think you guys

severely

misunderstand me.

@julienvonwolfe I was attempting to explain what mallow's questions were about. That's it. He was either (a) attempting to get a meta on all of you, (b) asking questions for potential scum-tells, (c) sparking conversation or (d) posted questions for the hell of it. Maybe all of the above.

[ZeroFang]

I voted mallow because I also suspected him almost as much, and there was already someone voting for him. It's useless to me to vote the person you hold the highest suspicion for if someone just as bad is already being voted for. My suspicion of gonnano came from the fact that he voted a person for pointing out that the questions were useless, and he was using false logic to try and make AGar look bad. My suspicion of mallow stems from the fact that he attempted to justify a vote on poor grounds. Since they both did relatively the same thing, I suspect them both roughly the same. Just FYI, it's typically a bad idea to split the votes up as it lends more vote influence to the mafia, and letting the mafia have control of the votes is a very bad idea.

I fail to see how answering the questions but adding a "just to let you know, these are useless" is scummy. If you want to draw conclusions from the questions than go ahead. It's just not going to do any good and so you're wasting time and effort that you could be using to find potential scum.

Chance and probability don't lend themselves to "reads". I have just as good a chance as anyone else of being anything. Pointing that out proves nothing. Your aforementioned scummy things aren't scummy at all. Your case is 100% fluff.

[ZeroFang]

If you find something useful out of them then by all means use them. The type of questions he asked weren't good questions for accomplishing anything. If nothing else, you should draw the conclusion that you need to make better questions next time that might actually result in a scumtell.

I actually suspect gonnano

a little

more for the moment

Better?

I never said I suspected them equally. I only said I suspect them roughly the same. I suspect gonnano a little bit more.

[ZeroFang]

Don't nit-pick. "Only" refers to the post above where I was questioned for apparently saying I suspected them the same.

[ZeroFang]

There has been consistency throughout. Perhaps a couple clarifications for nitpickers, but I haven't changed any "story".

Also, ad hom remarks (like referring to me as scum) don't further your case at all. They merely point out your lack of evidence. Lacking evidence while insisting someone is scum is fairly scummy.

Unvote; Vote: Seacore

[ZeroFang]

EBWOP: I'll probably be out till morning. I have a lot of reading to do in a game I just replaced into and I don't really have time to respond to a bad accusation every ten minutes. I'll deal with them all in a block tomorrow. Hopefully we'll get some more people posting too.

[ZeroFang]

Unvote; Vote: Seacore

Lol @ omgus.

It's not an omgus vote. I'm voting him because he called me scum without a significant other reason, and because of his overall record here. Looking back over his posts, he voted Quoi after his self vote, quickly jumped on my wagon without explaining himself, and then argued that a slight change in wording to clarify my original thoughts was highly scummy. The reason I called it ad hom was because it's not based on anything else. A slight clarification within the reasonable limits of my wording isn't scummy, and calling me scum

in place

of an argument is a form of ad hom. You're calling me scum instead of arguing I'm scum.

I find all of the above behaviors (quick bandwagoning, nitpicking, aggressive play without reason) scummy behavior. That's why I voted him.

Please note that this is responding to everything he posted before I went to bed.

I see. You have quite effectively clarified what you thought Mallow's questions were about, thank you. What are your views on the effectiveness of such a tactic?

It wasn't a tactic. I was proposing that his questions might have been getting meta reads, and in reality that's again irrelevant to the game itself unless the questions actually do something (in this case it seems to put everyone who said they're useless on death row). Mallow doesn't seem to care. If he did I'd apologize.

a) how does he know that person isn't scum, and thus that he has not inflated a scum lead wagon?

I don't, but that vote was cast during the RV stage. The person who voted him hasn't posted anything since.

b) what is the real difference between a 1 or 2 person wagon anyway? at this point?

I think one person in a mini does make a difference. Obviously you don't agree.

[ZeroFang]

backtracking

How did I backtrack? I never once back tracked. It's the equivalent of saying "a few" when you were talking about 4 or 5. Maybe 4 or 5 doesn't quite count as a "few" in your book, but it's not a reason to lynch somebody, and it's not backtracking. I've already addressed this. Please read.

OMGUS voting

I've explained my reasons very thoroughly in the post right above you. Did you just skip over it or are you blatantly ignoring it?

overly aggressive rebuttal

Again with the did you read my posts? I've been very clearly explaining myself this whole time. You guys ignore everything I post and continue with the same accusations that I've already addressed as bogus claims. It should come as no surprise to you that I'm a bit frustrated.

making me look like his scumbuddy

As soon as I'm dead you won't look like my scum buddy. Vanilla townies don't have any "buddies". That's also a real OMGUS reason to vote. I smell irony in the air.

Can we please stop the bogus reasoning and try and find some

actual

mafia? At this point you guys are so gung-ho on lynching me that you're forgetting everyone else.

[ZeroFang]

I want you guys to think about what it means when I flip vanilla townie. I want you to think very carefully about what his means about your "scum hunting" and how you could have improved. I also want to note that a lot of you blatantly ignored my posts refuting your claims.

I also want you to note how many damn "scum trends" are just flat out wrong. Most of that entire list is either fluff or things I've specifically refuted and you've ignored.

I didn't OMGUS vote and I explained why.
I didn't change my "story" if that's what you want to call it, and I explained why.
My FoS and vote were for the same reason and I explained why.
I changed my vote to you and thoroughly explained why.
I voted for my second choice and I've explained why.
I didn't jump on to a RV wagon. The vote was already there and happened to agree with my top two suspects at the time (from the limited info I had to go on)
My first post was to be silly. We're all silly in the RV stage.
I encouraged players not to jump on wagons willy nilly, but to jump on wagons of people you have a high suspicion of because there is absolutely no benefit in splitting the votes
I've pointed out how I thought you were scum, not because you voted for me, but because you really had no reason to and you seemed to be intentionally misleading people.
You wanted me hammered, and then said you didn't intend to hammer me. I didn't change my "story", sir. I mearly clarified. You completely changed your story.

I really don't think this town has any hope at this rate. None the less, I wish you luck. Please try to learn from this experience.