Newbie 965 (Game Over)

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.1:

Not Voting (7): silverbullet999, quadz08, Wraith, DavidParker, AGar, Beefster, Nobody Special

In light of the server move, I'm extending the deadline by 2 days. Your new deadline is Wednesday,

June

July 7, at 9:00 PM EDT. I'll also wait 2 days before prodding anyone.

[Wraith]

You mean July 7th?

Silly admin making typoes. Even I can't bend time.

[silverbullet999]

LOL at mafia always winning the deadline...

-AGAR

without giving specifics, did you get a result last night?

Wait, why don't we want specifics?

[AGar]

From my re-read I noted this:

I'm currently least suspicious of mallow just because of how he has almost lead this lynch on me, not something I would expect a mafia to do on someone they know is a townie.

This strikes me as odd and actually quite scummy. I've played scum a half a dozen times, and one of the things you have to do is lead a case on a townie in order to cover your own ass. That isn't just my meta - that's Scum 101. So clearing a player as "town" because of that is counter-intuitive.

Also, he hammered mallow when there was no imminent deadline - there were 2 weeks left in Day 1 - and running contrary to his almost complete Day 1 stance of "mallow is town."

I have my top two suspects still slated as Wraith and DavidParker, in interchangeable order.

DavidParker for his general meltdown, the fact that I don't believe the Cop claim, and the conflicting posts/votes that he has had.

Wraith for the continued not-pushing-content into the game. I still feel that he and mallow were opposite alignments, and that did not look like a town-vs-town battle to me. I felt his case on mallow was very reliant on bending the facts.

My hunch on NS was neither confirmed, nor denied. I need Day 2 to supplant Day 1 for me to continue on this.

-AGAR

without giving specifics, did you get a result last night?

Wait, why don't we want specifics?

Because if he got a town-result on a player, that person does not need to be announced unless they get in danger of lynching. A confirmed townie is essentially the worst thing that can happen for scum right now - they HAVE to manipulate their night kill accordingly because that person is not a lynch-able prospect anymore, and it narrows our pool for nailing scum down by one. I know it sounds crazy to not out them because it does narrow the pool, but at the same time, it can be beneficial as it doesn't give the scum any information and keeps them on their toes.

[silverbullet999]

-Agar

Because if he got a town-result on a player, that person does not need to be announced unless they get in danger of lynching. A confirmed townie is essentially the worst thing that can happen for scum right now - they HAVE to manipulate their night kill accordingly because that person is not a lynch-able prospect anymore, and it narrows our pool for nailing scum down by one. I know it sounds crazy to not out them because it does narrow the pool, but at the same time, it can be beneficial as it doesn't give the scum any information and keeps them on their toes.

Your reasoning seems to push him to reveal... and this group overall seems a little hammer happy. Scum already knows who town is anyway so...

Anyways fine I'll agree with you for now Agar..

DP what result did you get, you get a townie or scum... or did you get blocked.

VOTE: DP
(Til he answers)

[AGar]

-Agar

Because if he got a town-result on a player, that person does not need to be announced unless they get in danger of lynching. A confirmed townie is essentially the worst thing that can happen for scum right now - they HAVE to manipulate their night kill accordingly because that person is not a lynch-able prospect anymore, and it narrows our pool for nailing scum down by one. I know it sounds crazy to not out them because it does narrow the pool, but at the same time, it can be beneficial as it doesn't give the scum any information and keeps them on their toes.

Your reasoning seems to push him to reveal... and this group overall seems a little hammer happy. Scum already knows who town is anyway so...

Yes, scum knows who is town. But they don't know who we know is town.

Let's say Player A is the cop, Player B is the townie he investigated, Player C is a different player about to be lynched, Player D is a strong protown player, and Player E is scum, and they're the remaining town.

Player A knows Player B isn't scum, but he doesn't know the rest. He has a gut read on Player D for town, and seems to be getting a scum vibe from Player C. Players D and E are already voting C. Player A could declare that B is town, but then player B will likely die in the night phase. By allowing Player B to sneak in under the radar, Player A can potentially go into LYLO with Players B and E, and know that B is town, thus sealing the game for a town win.

It's just a matter of controlling the flow of information to the scum, if they don't know who DP investigated, it allows him to potentially control the lynch pool and make things much easier for us.

[DavidParker]

Hey, my check revealed a confirmed townie to me. Not revealing now for obvious reasons.

For now,

FoS: Silverbullet

, You are voting for me for what reason? Yes, this may be an OMGUS (whatever the acronym) vote, but because you are voting for a non-counter-claimed Cop. You have every right to be upset, I hammer'd when I shouldn't have, you're right, I was impatient, but you said yourself:

For the moment, I just find you as a stupid impatient townie

So you're voting for someone who you think is a townie?!?!


Also, why was uite killed? The town generally agreed that both SB and uite were two very pro-townies. I mean that doesn't clear either of them though just by acting town, any good/smart mafia could establish himself as one... Sooooo, WHY was SB spared and uite killed? I mean personally speaking it was pretty hard to differentiate between the two in terms of the town's view of them. I think maybe one person pressured SB at one point (NS?), but uite avoided most suspicions. So yeah, the mafia killed uite, a pro-townie player who would be hard to lynch while leaving SB alive.

Let's make that
VOTE: silverbullet

For now at least.

[DavidParker]

Anyways, time to reread thread, sad having just figured out the isolation thing I can't use it :/

[silverbullet999]

-DP

So you're voting for someone who you think is a townie?!?!

silverbullet wrote:For the moment, I just find you as a stupid impatient townie

Please note the For the moment.

I hammer'd when I shouldn't have, you're right, I was impatient,

This is probably the worst thing possible if we get to LYLO. If you are a townie cop, you are an incredibly dangerous townie cop.

[AGar]

Hey, my check revealed a confirmed townie to me. Not revealing now for obvious reasons.

Interesting...

For now,

FoS: Silverbullet

, You are voting for me for what reason? Yes, this may be an OMGUS (whatever the acronym) vote, but because you are voting for a non-counter-claimed Cop.

Who should be dead or roleblocked at this point.

Also, why was uite killed? The town generally agreed that both SB and uite were two very pro-townies. I mean that doesn't clear either of them though just by acting town, any good/smart mafia could establish himself as one... Sooooo, WHY was SB spared and uite killed? I mean personally speaking it was pretty hard to differentiate between the two in terms of the town's view of them. I think maybe one person pressured SB at one point (NS?), but uite avoided most suspicions. So yeah, the mafia killed uite, a pro-townie player who would be hard to lynch while leaving SB alive.

Let's make that
VOTE: silverbullet

For now at least.

I, for one, didn't find (and still don't) SB as nearly as beneficial to the town as Uite.

DP, your logic is very flawed, and I'm still trying to follow it. As for your positive result, I'm just further into the stage of non-belief about your role.

VOTE: DavidParker

[AGar]

EBWOP:

I forgot to mention - with no counter-claim and no lynched scum yet, we can not trust DavidParker's "positive" result. He could easily give a false-positive on his scumbuddy. Everything he says at this point must be inspected carefully for any potential scum motivations. He should be everyone's suspect #2 for the time being.

[AGar]

ETEBWOPBWOP:

He should be everyone's suspect #2 for the time being.

Should read as follows:

He should be everyone's suspect #2 for the time being

if he is not already in your top two.

(If you don't suspect him, you should, but he can be a #1 too.

[silverbullet999]

-Agar

I, for one, didn't find (and still don't) SB as nearly as beneficial to the town as Uite.

OMGUS!

Hate you!

[Wraith]

*looks out window*

Where's Beefster and NS?

[DavidParker]

It seems (to me at least) that the mafia didn't believe my cop claim on day 1. Considering the circumstances I don't blame them, and I attempted to post so that they wouldn't believe me so I could still get a check in (which is what happened)

Even if you are mafia and semi-believe my claim, letting me check still works to their advantage, as they turn me into a huge suspect.

The fact I get a check off and don't get roleblocked or nightkilled makes me the number 1 suspect. You are falling into the exact line of thinking the mafia were hoping people would fall into. They were banking on me not checking a scum player I'm guessing, which happened. It seems I would be better off having just lied and said that I got roleblocked... But I distinctly remember a lot of people with their "lynch all liars" policy...

[quadz08]

@DP: Or, alternatively, you could be scum who's lying about being the cop. AGar provided an excellent cover for you when he asked for non-specific results; it allows you to say whatever you want, and we have no way to look into the matter. (AGar, I'm not saying I don't think it's a wise idea, it just does provide a lot of cover for someone who's pretending to be the cop...)

I think we need to keep all the possibilities in mind. Right now, DP is looking like the best candidate for a vote, but once again, I don't want to push us into L-1 at the very beginning of the day. So, for now:

FoS: DavidParker

I'll be reading through things again, looking for other possibilities. One thing I'd like to bring up now is the possibility of an AGar/DP scumteam, based on AGar's suggestion that I mentioned earlier. This is a strenuous connection at best, I know, but it can't hurt to look into.

[quadz08]

Also, DP, your posts seem to assume the presence of a roleblocker. Perhaps you know something we don't, hm?

[Wraith]

If AGar and DP are a scumteam then they're pulling a very wierd tactic. Do scumbuddies bus each other this early in a BW? Anyways, the only thing we know for sure about this game is that there are 2 mafia players still in the game. Nobody's claimed Doc, so for all we know DP is scum claiming cop because we're in a non-PR setup, and can get away with it without a CC.

[quadz08]

Somebody claiming/not claiming doc has no effect on his cop claim. If there is a doc, it's equally likely that there is a cop as there isn't one. If there is not a doc, then once again, it's 50-50 on the presence of a cop.

[AGar]

It seems (to me at least) that the mafia didn't believe my cop claim on day 1. Considering the circumstances I don't blame them, and I attempted to post so that they wouldn't believe me so I could still get a check in (which is what happened)

Even if you are mafia and semi-believe my claim, letting me check still works to their advantage, as they turn me into a huge suspect.

The fact I get a check off and don't get roleblocked or nightkilled makes me the number 1 suspect. You are falling into the exact line of thinking the mafia were hoping people would fall into. They were banking on me not checking a scum player I'm guessing, which happened. It seems I would be better off having just lied and said that I got roleblocked... But I distinctly remember a lot of people with their "lynch all liars" policy...

Wow, this is just dripping with WIFOM. I'm not going to address any more of it than saying for someone who claims to be proficient at this game, you sure have a lot of twisted concepts going on in your head.

@DP: Or, alternatively, you could be scum who's lying about being the cop. AGar provided an excellent cover for you when he asked for non-specific results; it allows you to say whatever you want, and we have no way to look into the matter. (AGar, I'm not saying I don't think it's a wise idea, it just does provide a lot of cover for someone who's pretending to be the cop...)

I think we need to keep all the possibilities in mind. Right now, DP is looking like the best candidate for a vote, but once again, I don't want to push us into L-1 at the very beginning of the day. So, for now:

FoS: DavidParker

I'll be reading through things again, looking for other possibilities. One thing I'd like to bring up now is the possibility of an AGar/DP scumteam, based on AGar's suggestion that I mentioned earlier. This is a strenuous connection at best, I know, but it can't hurt to look into.

See my first reasoning and my trifecta post more recently for the reasonings I said non-specific:

- It doesn't paint up a townie for targeting in the night if he is telling the truth and is the cop
- It allows us to stay free of a false positive on a player that could be DP's scumbuddy that he clears if DP is scum.

It really doesn't provide any cover for him, because he could've said "I got a positive townie result and it's such and such" had I not said that, and how would the situation be any different? It just puts us in a situation where we don't know whether to believe him or not on the claim and just puts more confusion in the town if anything, because now you have to determine if two people are townie or scum simultaneously so as not to let one slip under the radar.

A doc claim would be useful if we had lynched an RB yesterday, as it would immediately out DP. Right now, no, a doc claim has no purpose at this point. Once we lynch scum, it could be more useful.

[AGar]

If AGar and DP are a scumteam then they're pulling a very wierd tactic. Do scumbuddies bus each other this early in a BW? Anyways, the only thing we know for sure about this game is that there are 2 mafia players still in the game. Nobody's claimed Doc, so for all we know DP is scum claiming cop because we're in a non-PR setup, and can get away with it without a CC.

DP would not know the presence of a PR or not if he and his buddy are Goon/RB combo - they know that there might be two or there might be 0. That's all they know though.

Fuck, this seems way to similar to my first game... ugh, someone better not be copycatting me lol.

[Wraith]

Well, I'm pretty confident as to who I'm gonna vote for today (at least at this time), but I'm gonna wait for NS and Beefster to contribute their views first.

[DavidParker]

So, assuming I am a cop, my check last night was useless, since if you are going to lynch me, and I tell you who I checked, that person will likely just be night killed since they can be trusted?

And to whoever said that my post assumed a role-blocker in the game: I actually don't think there is one in the game, because I was the OBVIOUS target for a role block. I wasn't the obvious target for a night kill however, as I could be turned into a target (as has happened today). Regardless of roleblocker or not, i'm an easy target for mafia to make. However, if there is a roleblocker, they may as well role block me to stop me investigating someone (who else do they have as a better target to roleblock). So, I'm assuming there is no doctor and no roleblocker in this game. Obviously, that's just my perception and I could be entirely wrong.

If scum don't have a roleblocker, it still makes sense to leave me alive for the very reason of what is happening today.


Also, what is this WIFOM acronym.

I think if it can be ascertained that there is no doctor in the game, my validity as the cop actually increases since that explains why I wasn't role blocked.

[DavidParker]

So, assuming I am a cop, my check last night was useless, since if you are going to lynch me, and I tell you who I checked, that person will likely just be night killed since they can be trusted?

And to whoever said that my post assumed a role-blocker in the game: I actually don't think there is one in the game, because I was the OBVIOUS target for a role block. I wasn't the obvious target for a night kill however, as I could be turned into a target (as has happened today). Regardless of roleblocker or not, i'm an easy target for mafia to make. However, if there is a roleblocker, they may as well role block me to stop me investigating someone (who else do they have as a better target to roleblock). So, I'm assuming there is no doctor and no roleblocker in this game. Obviously, that's just my perception and I could be entirely wrong.

If scum don't have a roleblocker, it still makes sense to leave me alive for the very reason of what is happening today.


Also, what is this WIFOM acronym.

I think if it can be ascertained that there is no doctor in the game, my validity as the cop actually increases since that explains why I wasn't role blocked. With that said, it might not be the best idea for a doctor to come out..

[DavidParker]

lag = posted twice oops. added sentence at the end though.