Mini 987: Alternative Vote Mafia- Ovah!

[Pomegranate]

Ok, I submitted my initial ballot. Should I post it here too or are we keeping these things private? We should get a townie consensus on this (I'm a townie myself).

A)

6. Valid ballots, once submitted, cannot be withdrawn or amended.

B)

Public ballots are required.

So Jack, I'd assume that your fist ballot didn't count, but I'd PM the mod just to be safe. And don't post one in the thread yet.

Whoa! Town here too!

[Pomegranate]

I don't think that what Jack did (not read the rules properly) makes him scum. It's a nulltell, IMO. Why does it make him scum, Zach?

[Pomegranate]

Why?

[Pomegranate]

Any reason?

[Pomegranate]

Ah. And how did you come to that conclusion? Because you seem to be sadly mistaken.

[Pomegranate]

I think that in a game with unusual mechanics like this everyone would read the rules (equally) carefully, and therefore

not

reading the rules carefully would be a nulltell. Thoughts?

[Pomegranate]

You

do not make sense.

And

I

am leaving for the night because I must study. Goodbye.

(Zachrulez:

You

make enough sense. For now.)

[Pomegranate]

Well, as opposed to a fake sort of RVS I'm willing to discuss game theory, yes.

[Pomegranate]

WAIT FOR VERY CLOSE TO DEADLINE BECAUSE

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT

[Pomegranate]

Why? I'm not quite sure what I did.

[Pomegranate]

Zach, why do you have to seem so much like scum jumping a quick, early wagon?

Vote: Zach

.

[Pomegranate]

Why? I'm not quite sure what I did.

And what did I do?

[Pomegranate]

The reasoning he gave is iffy, IMO, and I don't like it.

[Pomegranate]

I think that in a game with unusual mechanics like this everyone would read the rules (equally) carefully, and therefore

not

reading the rules carefully would be a nulltell. Thoughts?

Hmmm. It seems I missed this. I don't think that not-reading the rules is a nulltell. However, I don't think one little thing like this is nearly enough to lynch Pom.

So this is what I did?

I haven't really changed my mind on that, sorry.

Why is it

scummy

?

[Pomegranate]

Those that don't read, are paying less attention, thus, are scum.

Except that, as vollkan pointed out, the objective of scum is to appear to be town.

[Pomegranate]

Also Pom, why are you voting for me again? I can't really comprehend any reason other than the fact that your vote feels like it's a retaliation to mine.

Because everyone else's vote makes sense to me except for Elli, but that's just his playstyle. Your less so. Still, looking back at the post in which you voted me, I will

Unvote

.

[Pomegranate]

Those that don't read, are paying less attention, thus, are scum.

Why does paying lass attention equal scum? Townies usually also become apathetic.

V/LA until late Saturday night. This is a weekly V/LA, and will occur on a weekly basis.

[Pomegranate]

I thought it was tomorrow too...

Wait, did you not just commit your own scumtell? Who didn't read

again

?

[Pomegranate]

Ooh, hi. I was graduating if you wondered where I was. Currently getting my games together.

[Pomegranate]

Ooh, hi. I was graduating if you wondered where I was. Currently getting my games together.

WAITWAT.
I'M VERY CONFUSED BY THE P-FRUIT SISTER AGE TIMELINE NOW.

I assumed elementary.

Yes. And I think I need to reread what the mod wrote about deadline, because I am severely confused by it.

[Pomegranate]

Real post later.

[Pomegranate]

So Anon's scum eh?

I disagree with you. He is not obvtown but its still early. How did you get to that conclusion?

Personally, I think that I thought you were scummy, but I can't remember if I did.

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I and I can't remember why.

[Pomegranate]

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

Sort posts by author can duplicate the effects of ISO.

Thank you. I will now 'iso' Anon.

[Pomegranate]

Weekly V/LA.

[Pomegranate]

I like the extension.

Jason, what's your opinion of me? Elli, what's your opinion of Jason?

[Pomegranate]

Pom claim.

What do you think of Jason?

[Pomegranate]

Sorry Elli.

Zach, what have you done so far this game?

[Pomegranate]

If you'd read the game you'd know the answer to that question.

I want it in your words; stop avoiding my question.

I'm suspicious of Jason, and I'm still waiting for a response to a question I posed to him on the previous page.

[Pomegranate]

I know that there's a lot for me to catch up on... but I'm busy until Wednesday night. Or maybe afternoon, if I'm lucky.

[Pomegranate]

Pom is currently writing her catchup post, so if you could wait a bit for her, she would be very grateful.

[Pomegranate]

POMMY.
How serious were you in that post that was sandwiched between my posts on Page 1?

And the next one after that too.
I mean, did you think I was serious about Pommy scum because you sounded like you were all that.

First one I wasn't really serious, second one not at all.

--

ScumJason is lurking because town is focusing on Pom.

We should lynch him instead.

Very.

--

Though somewhat hypocritical... right now Anon is topping my list as he has done nothing.

Jason

, do you think hypocrisy is a scumtell?

--

Pom claim.

What do you think of Jason?

deflection.

Not in the slightest. Elli wants me to claim; I don't think that makes sense; I want to know what he thinks of you.

--

I was kinda on the fence about pom, but this post has convinced me Pom is scum.

Jason

, you quoted a very long post (which I didn't include simply because of it's length). What in that post convinced you?

--

I dont like the tone of the question as well. Its like Pom is trying to generate a fight when using the "why does it make him scum" instead of "why are you voting him?"

I word things weirdly. Deal with it.

--

Zach, why do you have to seem so much like scum jumping a quick, early wagon?

Vote: Zach

.

mmhmm, in a game that doesnt lynch with wagons...

Effectively, it is close enough to the same thing: If I currently find you the most scummy, I will put you at the top of my ballot. (And it feels like a wagon when people post

Vote: Pomegranate

.)

--

Because everyone else's vote makes sense to me except for Elli, but that's just his playstyle. Your less so. Still, looking back at the post in which you voted me, I will Unvote.

backtracking with ellibuddying and even wrong since there were a lot of people that were voting without reasons. Pom voted Zach with NO VALID REASON.

He placed the fourth 'vote'. In fact, you included above it in your post. (Look at the pink above.)

--

Very little actual content and it seems bussing of Pom....

Why do you think it is bussing?

--

I think that button/volk are the same alignment.

I get the same vibe. And contrary to Anon, they seem more twon than scum to me.

--

Currently, the person who will be at the top of my ballot is Jason.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom [...] If you are town, you should claim in your next post.

Why? Anon, if you are scum you would want me to claim in my next post.

[Pomegranate]

But I don't feel like I'm at the equivalent of L-1. And if that's the case, I shouldn't claim. Right?

[Pomegranate]

Official Ballot:

Anon
jasonT1981
Zachrulez
Ellibereth
Shattered Viewpoint
Jack
vollkan
TheButtonmen

And that's probably all you'll get from me before deadline, as I have my weekly V/LA.

[Pomegranate]

SOMEONE'S AVOIDING THE THREAD.
YES I KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
YOU.

Me?

Let me say that I was fasting today. It's another Jewish one. I don't want to make up excuses, but I slept a lot today and stuff.

And I'll post tomorrow, probably in the early afternoon-ish.

[Pomegranate]

VOTE: Pome:

Should have lynched her yesterday.

Please clearly explain why you want me lynched today.

[Pomegranate]

So nothing has happened since, I dunno, page five?

[Pomegranate]

TOP 2 SUSPECTS FROM EVERYONE TOO PLZ.

Probably SV and Zach. Possibly Jack after that.

Jack: Why is Elli scum? I don't agree that your reasoning is as good as you say it s.

[Pomegranate]

Except that I am the doc. And I protected Elli.

And Zach is scum.

But that means that Jack is probably his buddy, right?

But what about SV... town I guess, it makes the most sense.

In the meantime-

Unofficial Ballot:
Zach
Jack
Other people

[Pomegranate]

oooooooooooooh counterclaim baby!
Pommy, why'd you protect me who I remember was somewhere midway on D1 ballot?
Zach, same question except me is Jack.

I'm obv heavily leaving Zach scum per why Pom is a power role a few posts up.

Well... if you were scum I think you would have 'hammered' me, as it would have made more of a commotion than a Jason lynch, and I think you could've milked a good mislynch out of the remains of it. And no one would have been surprised that you put me at the top. Plus, the 10 or so consecutive posts you made at the end of the day had a townie feel to them.

But both of those happened after I submitted my ballot, and that's why you were #4 on my ballot, and not lower.

[Pomegranate]

Yes.

But then we have to establish top suspects. But it works.

[Pomegranate]

I guess.

But why the HELL would I counterclaim Zach if I was scum?

[Pomegranate]

I guess.

But why the HELL would I counterclaim Zach if I was scum?

Lack of counterclaim from scum-you would equal town auto-win.

A one-for-one trade isn't worth it for scum.

If Zach flips town you lynch me tomorrow.

Happy?

[Pomegranate]

I'm a tad confused by your wording. I don't think that it proves that scum had to counterclaim though.

[Pomegranate]

Ah, thanks.

[Pomegranate]

Yes, I agree with TBM.

[Pomegranate]

Official Ballot:

Zachrulez
Shattered Viewpoint
Jack
vollkan
TheButtonmen
Ellibereth

[Pomegranate]

I forgot to number mine. Just in case-

Official Ballot:

1. Zachrulez
2. Shattered Viewpoint
3. Jack
4. vollkan
5. TheButtonmen
6. Ellibereth

[Pomegranate]

So you

want

me modkilled?

Haha scumslip Zach. Now let's lynch you.

[Pomegranate]

While we're at it, who's you scumbuddy?

[Pomegranate]

*your

[Pomegranate]

SV, I'd say, and if that doesn't work then Jack tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

TBM.

[Pomegranate]

TBM.

Why?

Well, he's confirmed town and PR.

Ballot tonight, or possibly tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

ITT Pom doesn't see the need for a speed lynch, especially considering that Elli hasn't posted yet today.

Soon.

[Pomegranate]

Eh, now that vollkan posted his ballot-

Official Ballot:

1. Shattered Viewpoint
2. vollkan
3. Jack
4. Ellibereth
5. TheButtonmen

[Pomegranate]

Jack or vollkan....

Also: I will have no internet access for an entire momths starong on Wednesday the 28th. If the game is over by then then great, but if not then it's possible that I'll be able to recruit Plum to replace me. Otherwise I will need a replacement at that point.

[Pomegranate]

I need to iso you and vollkan. I

[Pomegranate]

I am not sure of anything yet.

(I pressed submit by accident on the last post.)

[Pomegranate]

You Elli.

Ugh... I'm really busy, but Plum did agree to replace in for me. I'll post sometime today.

[Pomegranate]

Some notes, not really edited:

Scumteam: Zach+Jack

-Zach finding Jack scummy for not reading the rules properly seems like it could be some weak early distancing (post 9)
-Jack defends Zach a lot early D2
-Oddly, Jack about-faces on his stance in post 282, and suddenly decides that I'm town and Zach is scum
- Then in 326 he thinks I'm more likely scum than Zach. He can't make up his mind, can he..

Scumteam: Zack+vollkan

-vollkan finding Zach scummy for for finding Jack scummy could also be weak distancing (post 21)
-He put Zach at the top of his ballot D1, while Zack was in no danger of being lynched, which could've been safe bussing/distancing.

--

Some stuff about Jack

I don't like how Jack jumps on me D1. Then again, with Zach already on me it might make more sense that the other buddy would stay off the wagon (vollkan).

Jack says (post 66) that scum don't have a strong incentive to read carefully, which is weird, because he was the one who didn't read carefully.

Some stuff about vollkan

vollkan does a lot of debating and not a lot of scumhunting D1 (except for possibly his back and forth with TBM which was... weird).

Starting D2 I don't feel like vollkan has done very much. I played with him once before (me scum, him town, and I think the game is on my wiki... it was a mini normal modded by canadianbovine, I think). He was very pro-town, and I just don't see that in this game. To me, that's definitely the biggest point against vollkan.

--

Elli, why do you say that you find Jack's play this game very pro-town? I dunno, I just don't get that from him.

vollkan, who do you think is scum?

--

I guess it's weird, but I think one-shot-cop/bodyguard/doc can work- bodyguard for the cop, and doc for everyone else, if that makes an ounce of sense. Also, (I guess that I could be scum who skipped a NK for a gambit, but) the doc makes sense considering the lack of NKs.

~~~~~~~~

Okay. So I just spent a while doing this, and I have to think more, but I don't have time right now. And Plum is home, and will replace me on Wednesday.

[Pomegranate]

-vollkan finding Zach scummy for for finding Jack scummy could also be weak distancing (post 21)
-He put Zach at the top of his ballot D1, while Zack was in no danger of being lynched, which could've been safe bussing/distancing.

Could you explain how either of the two things you raise there is indicative of me being scum rather than me having a genuine suspicion of Zach?

I mean, he made a crappy attack on Jack, and I attacked him for it. While of course objectively it could be distancing, you've provided absolutely no explanation as to why that is a worthwhile explanation for my actions beyond taking them at face value. Similarly, on your second point, in my ISO post #23 I gave extensive reasons for all players as to why I had given them the rankings that I had. Zach was my #1 suspect, so I put him at #1. Why does that suggest distancing/bussing as opposed to genuine suspicion?

vollkan, who do you think is scum?

I haven't found either you or Jack scummy throughout this game. At this stage, probably yourself, for two main reasons (but I need to think through everything more closely): 1) Your claim leads to a really strange setup; 2) Something which plays to an extent in Jack's favour is that yesterday he pushed the line that a Zach-scum lynch would somewhat clear me, which would have been against his own interests as scum.

vollkan does a lot of debating and not a lot of scumhunting D1 (except for possibly his back and forth with TBM which was... weird).

This is a meta-trait of mine.

1. I was looking for possible connections between you & Zach and Jack & Zach.
2. Blah
3. But I've played with you before... let me go find that game and glance at it; I need to refresh my memory.

[Pomegranate]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=12791.

You did have a long back and forth there. But you seemed to be doing a lot more than you are here.

[Pomegranate]

Hello all.

Firstly, I feel terrible about replacing out. I don't recall exactly, but when the game started, I think I thought it would be over in time for me. I was wrong.

Why I counterclaimed Zach: Had I not, I would have been lynched, and he would have been semi-confirmed. I decided that counterclaiming would get him lynched, but put me in a really good place in which to win the game.

[Pomegranate]

It wasn't a terrible risk. Oh, and-

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2384080

I have to say that this thread is focusing almost entirely on town play, whille it seems that it's purpose is to give advice for both town and scum.

I kept playing until I found a scumtell that reliably worked. Once I found out what scum were actually more likely to do in a given situation, I got much better at finding them.

This makes sense. However, for me the fun in being scum is doing things that would never be

expected

to come from scum.

hmmmm at last line.
Pommy, what type of never expected to come from scumthings have you done in the past? Just curious

(I had this game in mind when I made that post... and I was afraid someone would read it and bring it up. )