Mini 987: Alternative Vote Mafia- Ovah!

[vollkan]

vollkan: Since you asked me a question based on a misattributed quote, do you have any other questions for me?

Yes. Why did you ask me that?

[TheButtonmen]

vollkan: Since you asked me a question based on a misattributed quote, do you have any other questions for me?

Yes. Why did you ask me that?

Feel like posting something that doesn't end in a question mark?

Your not scumhunting at all, just asking a bunch of fairly weak questions without following them up or doing any analysis of people answers.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

vollkan: Since you asked me a question based on a misattributed quote, do you have any other questions for me?

Yes. Why did you ask me that?

Just making sure I'm up-to-date.

Oh, and TBM, you;re missing one.

[TheButtonmen]

Hnnn my lack of opinion about you is disturbing.

Stop coasting and stand out more!

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Nah.

[Zachrulez]

Official Ballot:

1. Pomegranate
2. jasonT1981
3. Shattered Viewpoint
4. Anon
5. Ellibereth
6. Jack
7. TheButtonmen
8. vollkan

[Zachrulez]

That's pretty much where I've been at since the weekend and I don't see it changing much between now and the deadline, particularly with the current game state such as it is.

[The Fonz]

@Mod:

What's the deal with deadline?

Debating. Kinda annoyed by the move really, since I need the days to end at weekends so i can number crunch, but I don't want day one to be SHORTER than all the others. My current feeling is to extend the deadline till first thing in the morning UK time (or whenever I get up) a week on saturday, ie the 26th. Then run night till tuesday and allow an extra day for Day 2. That way, I'm extending day one, but only effectively for two days more than it would have been without the crash.

Thoughts? I'll make an official decision by tonight.

[jasonT1981]

just refound the thread, catching up after the world cup games are over today.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

@Mod:

What's the deal with deadline?

Debating. Kinda annoyed by the move really, since I need the days to end at weekends so i can number crunch, but I don't want day one to be SHORTER than all the others. My current feeling is to extend the deadline till first thing in the morning UK time (or whenever I get up) a week on saturday, ie the 26th. Then run night till tuesday and allow an extra day for Day 2. That way, I'm extending day one, but only effectively for two days more than it would have been without the crash.

Thoughts? I'll make an official decision by tonight.

I'm happy with the original deadline. But the above works, too, if necessary for anyone else.

[Pomegranate]

Ooh, hi. I was graduating if you wondered where I was. Currently getting my games together.

WAITWAT.
I'M VERY CONFUSED BY THE P-FRUIT SISTER AGE TIMELINE NOW.

I assumed elementary.

Yes. And I think I need to reread what the mod wrote about deadline, because I am severely confused by it.

[Pomegranate]

Real post later.

[Anon]

So Anon's scum eh?

I disagree with you. He is not obvtown but its still early. How did you get to that conclusion?

[Pomegranate]

So Anon's scum eh?

I disagree with you. He is not obvtown but its still early. How did you get to that conclusion?

Personally, I think that I thought you were scummy, but I can't remember if I did.

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I and I can't remember why.

[TheButtonmen]

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

Sort posts by author can duplicate the effects of ISO.

[vollkan]

Feel like posting something that doesn't end in a question mark?

Your not scumhunting at all, just asking a bunch of fairly weak questions without following them up or doing any analysis of people answers.

I primarily scumhunt by analysing reasoning. Basically, as you saw when I criticised the "scum don't pay attention" thing, I am very skeptical of many of the commonly considered scumtells. The only one I tend to find reliable is people's reasoning.

Now, when I gave my 1-6 list thing, people just said wrong, without explanation.
When I asked about why Jason's reaction wasn't natural, which was a quote of your's (albeit misattributed), you didn't respond. Your answer was:

SV didn't say that; I did. Also to answer your question; experience. It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias.

Also you continue your trend of only asking questions, never contributing anything.

If I am short on analysis, the default is at your end.

Just making sure I'm up-to-date.

That doesn't make sense. You can assume that if a player, especially an active player, is not questioning you, then they don't have any outstanding issues with you.

Thoughts? I'll make an official decision by tonight.

An extension would be good.

[TheButtonmen]

That's a crock of shit.

So it's our fault your being as useful as tits on a bull?

My level of concern with your opinions of "commonly considered scumtells" quite honestly couldn't be lower; what I want is your opinions on the game and in particular it's players, your list of 1-6 is a prime example of the useless malarky you've been pushing to seemingly avoid commenting on the game itself.

Starting a debate about what constitutes a scum tell or voting theory is something for MD not here; if you want to explain why someone is scummy then by all means use your preferred scum tells or method of voting anaylsis; but stop trying to have debates about who's system of scum hunting work best in the game thread.

[vollkan]

I have asked you and re-referenced a question on this exact game that I asked you - about why jason's reaction was natural for scum. It's very easy to keep banging the "you're pushing a theory debate" line, as you are, but it is complete bullshit. If you don't have a decent explanation for your attack, that is a valid scumtell.

I have to say that I find it truly ridiculous that pushing an erroneous line of attack (eg. "scum don't pay attention" or "Jason's reaction was unnatrual") is somehow useful, but my play is useless.

what I want is your opinions on the game

I've given my opinion on every major development. The fact that my response has generally been "That isn't scummy; your reasons aren't valid" doesn't alter that.

[Pomegranate]

I NEED ISO DAMNIT

Sort posts by author can duplicate the effects of ISO.

Thank you. I will now 'iso' Anon.

[TheButtonmen]

I have asked you and re-referenced a question on this exact game that I asked you - about why jason's reaction was natural for scum. It's very easy to keep banging the "you're pushing a theory debate" line, as you are, but it is complete bullshit. If you don't have a decent explanation for your attack, that is a valid scumtell.

I have to say that I find it truly ridiculous that pushing an erroneous line of attack (eg. "scum don't pay attention" or "Jason's reaction was unnatrual") is somehow useful, but my play is useless.

what I want is your opinions on the game

I've given my opinion on every major development. The fact that my response has generally been "That isn't scummy; your reasons aren't valid" doesn't alter that.

Yes; people pushing what you (Vollkan) think is an "erroneous line of attack" is quite useful; when people push something it forces them to publicly put things in writing. Which the rest of the players can then judge and form their own opinions on, unlike your play style of calling everything useless or invalid which contributes jack diddly squat. Dismissing someones line of attack as wrong is quite different from making attacks of your own; you've been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town.

Also I already answered your question about why I found it a scum tell as for you not liking my answer well;

My level of concern with your opinions of "commonly considered scumtells" quite honestly couldn't be lower

[vollkan]

Yes; people pushing what you (Vollkan) think is an "erroneous line of attack" is quite useful; when people push something it forces them to publicly put things in writing. Which the rest of the players can then judge and form their own opinions on, unlike your play style of calling everything useless or invalid which contributes jack diddly squat. Dismissing someones line of attack as wrong is quite different from making attacks of your own; you've been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town.

I generally consider consistently poor reasoning a scumtell. Hence, it's untrue to say that I've "been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town"

I don't consider instances of lacking attention scummy. I don't consider somebody interpreting a particular post in an understandable, if unusual, way scummy. By my count, those are the only two serious issues to have arisen thus far in this game. It follows that I am not going to attack people for those things. My argument on both those points (I'll come to the latter in just a moment) has stood solidly.

Now, on that latter, you said:

Also I already answered your question about why I found it a scum tell as for you not liking my answer well;

It's not about me not 'liking' your answer.

Quick review:

Read him in ISO and keep the fact that he thought deadline was tommorow

Yes...?

also his reaction to the being voted for being jason is also a slight scumtell to me as well.

Because he took the vote seriously? (Trying to get at your reasons...)

Your response:

Now in regards to obvscum jason; he thought the day was ending yet he did nothing, he was happy to go through the day just coasting along avoid discussion, he didn't give any reads, act in anyway concerend about the day's end.

As for my other point; He was voted for "for being jason". He chose to interpret this to mean "for being scum jason", In my experience thats not a natural way for town to interpret its meaning.

My response (I've snipped the SV stuff to avoid confusion):

Now in regards to obvscum jason; he thought the day was ending yet he did nothing, he was happy to go through the day just coasting along avoid discussion, he didn't give any reads, act in anyway concerend about the day's end.

What should he have done as town?

As for my other point; He was voted for "for being jason". He chose to interpret this to mean "for being scum jason",

In my experience thats not a natural way for town to interpret its meaning.

(bolding mine)

Two questions:
1) Why isn't it a natural way for town to react?
2) (the oft-neglected part of scumhunting) Why IS it a natural way for scum to react?

And you:

SV didn't say that; I did. Also to answer your question; experience. It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias.

Also you continue your trend of only asking questions, never contributing anything.

Me:

I didn't ask what the scum motive was. My question was, since you were saying it wasn't a natural play for town, why it was so for scum.

The fact that seomthing is weird (which, I fully accept, his interpretation was) doesn't make it scummy.

And that's it. Points to note:
1) You entirely ignored my question about how town should have reacted come end of day
2) Your argument in suppot of your attack on jason's reaction boiled down to a feeble "It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias".

[TheButtonmen]

I generally consider consistently poor reasoning a scumtell. Hence, it's untrue to say that I've "been judging people attacks as invalid, not the posters as scummy or town"

Quote yourself calling someone scummy or town.

I don't consider instances of lacking attention scummy. I don't consider somebody interpreting a particular post in an understandable, if unusual, way scummy. By my count, those are the only two serious issues to have arisen thus far in this game. It follows that I am not going to attack people for those things. My argument on both those points (I'll come to the latter in just a moment) has stood solidly.

So you think nothing of note has happend this game? Damn it's going to be tough to cast your votes eh?

Points to note:
1) You entirely ignored my question about how town should have reacted come end of day
2) Your argument in suppot of your attack on jason's reaction boiled down to a feeble "It's not a matter of motivation for the scum, it's human bias".

1) Here's what I said;

He thought the day was ending yet he did nothing, he was happy to go through the day just coasting along avoid discussion, he didn't give any reads, act in anyway concerend about the day's end.

Well first off; town wants discussion, town wants people giving reads. I expect a towny when they see that deadline is in less then 24 and there's no clear lynch canidate, multiple posters have avoided saying much and that they hadn't given their reads on people to be quite vocal and point out the deadline and demand people start posting their ballots.

But more importantly it's what he did during the day, he thought the day was four days long and proceeded to avoid as much as it as he could, avoiding joining any discussions or starting any attacks.

2) Yes.

[Jack]

"Quote yourself calling someone scummy or town."

Not many people have really been scummy or town. Pom is the only person I'd call scummy. Not sure I'd really call anyone town.

[vollkan]

Quote yourself calling someone scummy or town.

I haven't. I've pointed out where I've seen bad reasoning, but I'd be loathe to make an alignment call simply based on a few isolated instances thereof.

So you think nothing of note has happend this game? Damn it's going to be tough to cast your votes eh?

Apart from the two examples I have given, tell me just one other thing that you think I should be seriously considering as a scumtell.

Well first off; town wants discussion, town wants people giving reads. I expect a towny when they see that deadline is in less then 24 and there's no clear lynch canidate, multiple posters have avoided saying much and that they hadn't given their reads on people to be quite vocal and point out the deadline and demand people start posting their ballots.

But more importantly it's what he did during the day, he thought the day was four days long and proceeded to avoid as much as it as he could, avoiding joining any discussions or starting any attacks.

Valid.

@Jason: Address the above.

2) Yes.

Care to elaborate?