Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)

[Chronopie]

I'll sleep either D2 or D3, based on what's best for the town.

[UncertainKitten]

That's cute, but a full commitment to a day is more helpful for determining opportunism and such.

[Chronopie]

Alright D2 then. I figure that nothing major will happen during the first half, so I'm not going to be needed as much.

[UncertainKitten]

Ok. So:

Sleeping tomorrow maybe:

Nikanor
Kenman
ABR
Chronopie

That's four, but if you want to sleep register said desire and we'll boot the scummiest from the list.

[ReaperCharlie]

I voted for RC, with the intent of accomplishing two things. One, I know we aren't that close to an actual lynch therefore, I wanted to bring out the suspicious players with the intent of changing my vote to either VV or easjo when it came down to crunch time. Two, I wanted to get a reaction from him. I voted for him in order to put pressure on him in hopes that he reveal something scummy.

Did you get the reaction you were searching for, and if so, would you care to explain what it was?

If not, why is your vote still on me?


@ UK: What is this proposed sleep plan? Anything different than what was up before?

[vIQleS]

Just FYI - I'm VLA for the next four days... (NZ Magic Convention FTW!!!)

V/LA noted.

I have some suspicions and suspects - about which I will pontificate when I return...

[easjo682]

first off UK I'd really appreciate it if you were to quote directly what you are refering to, it maakes it easier when responding or reading the thread.

@easjo1: Um...no? How are they going to know what PRs are active and who's a PR? You still haven't adequately explained this? ever?

The same way we "know" who scum are by who sleeps when, it narrows down the list of suspects, unfortunately when it comes down to narrowing down the mafia they could each easily have a different night or day that they sleep during therefore leaving a mafia always around to make the kill, how do you not understand that?
from mafia perspective if they know that players AB CD EF are asleep and ZY XW VU are awake and power 12 was used then they know it can only be ZY XW VU.
deductive reasoning, I'm sure the mafia can use it.

@Easjo2: From what I remember, that was actually the original night sleeping plan that you have chosen to ignore the details of. Though, it does have enough flaws so as not to be worthwhile.

I thought I'd adressed the most recent plan as well? If I haven't do you care to quote it for me, so that I can adress it?
thanks

@easjo3: Have you been ignoring every benefit mentioned thus far? Just because we don't necessarily prevent the scum kill doesn't mean that we still don't get valuable information about who the scum are by organized sleep cycles, especially organized DAY sleep cycles. I also think the way I proposed handling day sleep would increase the chances of a situation where scum would be caught.

I don't see any benefits only detriments, we still let the scum kill while not being able to figure out who they are, while they can also narrow down the pool of player with select PRs

@easjo4: So, why am I scummy and Nik's not? Since he was the one who proposed the plan? Is it because there was no one accusing nik that you could piggyback off of? Oh, yes, it is.

because you were the first person to propose the idea of sychronised sleep, you did it in your first post which was also the second player post.

@easjo5: Well, while you and Vasu both suck, I love how you are trying to invalidate my imminently valid case on you by calling it OMGUS. Scummy move there.

I'm not calling it OMGUS.

@easjo6: Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...I think Nik very desperately needs to reread.

???? what is this about?

easjo: You're not simply scummy for opposing organized sleep cycles. You're scummy for jumping on a terrible wagon, as UK has said

you mean I'm voting for the person who first proposed sychronised sleep.

I still vote that those we find the scummiest dont' sleep during the day. If any person we find scummy sleeps during the day they should be lynched.

Can you explain how this makes any sense?

[ReaperCharlie]

uh... LMAO @

Anti alliance

in your sig!

that's all for now. sorry for the distraction, carry on.

[VasudeVa]

I don't get why I am 'scum' for going against the sleep thing, also for voting who I think is leading the town into doing something silly. How is that scummy?

*WIFOM ALERT*
Why would scum bother going against it if they are going to disobey in the first place and get all that juicy info without them even trying, hm?
*END WIFOM*

I also don't get why UK is getting away with going needlessly bananas over a wagon-pressure vote/dissent over her sleeptalk. Is this some kind of meta thing?

I need to do like Zac Efron and get my head in the game. All this sleeptalk is making my head hurt. I don't understand why everyone is so hung-up about it especially since we haven't seen how it affects the game(yet). Plus, the effect's don't seem that detrimental to town anyway. If anything, it looks more like sleep affects scum more than town.

All we are doing, as far as I'm concerned, is baring fangs at people who don't stick to the status quo.

[easjo682]

uh... LMAO @ Anti alliance in your sig!

it's popped up in too many games recently, I think its risky putting trust into a select group.

[Kenman]

I don't get why I am 'scum' for going against the sleep thing, also for voting who I think is leading the town into doing something silly. How is that scummy?

It is scummy because an organized sleep schedule IS beneficial to the town. Especially the one we have settled on. Im not sure if you are arguing for the sake of arguing, which is definitely scummy, or you are genuinly opposed to the sleep schedule.

(Nik,Farside,UK -correct me if im wrong)
Everyone sleeps during the day, this makes it so no one will sleep without the town knowing. The scummiest people sleep at night, therefore, if they are scum they are unable to use their abilities or they have to stay awake and kill, If they do that, they run the risk of being caught through vote randomization. If they sleep during the day, when they are not assigned they are caught as well. Im not too sure if there is a way to prevent scum from stagggering sleep besides the obvious fact of catching all of them but the plan is decent and will provide organization and control.

*WIFOM ALERT*
Why would scum bother going against it if they are going to disobey in the first place and get all that juicy info without them even trying, hm?
*END WIFOM*

It isnt WIFOM. Have you been paying attention? The plan is designed to catch people who do not follow the plan. Not only are they not going to follow the plan. We are counting on it. I dont believe your slow or stupid. On the contrary I think you fully grasp all this information, "which is why you are against it."

Plus, the effect's don't seem that detrimental to town anyway. If anything, it looks more like sleep affects scum more than town.

You practically discredited your own arguement right there. Sleep does affect scum more than it affects town. They are required to stay awake in order to kill. So why would you not be in favor of a sleep schedule?

vote Vasudeva

Did you get the reaction you were searching for, and if so, would you care to explain what it was?

If not, why is your vote still on me?

It was a mistake to vote for you. Although I didnt like how you mentioned you were willing to deviate from the plan if you felt like it wasnt good enough. My read on you so far is neutral, though leaning scum, I could be wrong but its only day 1.

[farside22]

Everyone sleeps during the day, this makes it so no one will sleep without the town knowing. The scummiest people sleep at night, therefore, if they are scum they are unable to use their abilities or they have to stay awake and kill, If they do that, they run the risk of being caught through vote randomization. If they sleep during the day, when they are not assigned they are caught as well. Im not too sure if there is a way to prevent scum from stagggering sleep besides the obvious fact of catching all of them but the plan is decent and will provide organization and control.

I never said everyone sleep during the day. I have been saying over and over those we find the scummiest should be forced to sleep at night or be lynched.
I have no idea why UK keeps ignoring this point and forcing people to pick a day to sleep.
So far there is 4 people asking to sleep day 2 (which I think it's fair to discuss) beyond day 2 I would be saying no to certain people sleeping.

[farside22]

Everyone sleeps during the day, this makes it so no one will sleep without the town knowing. The scummiest people sleep at night, therefore, if they are scum they are unable to use their abilities or they have to stay awake and kill, If they do that, they run the risk of being caught through vote randomization. If they sleep during the day, when they are not assigned they are caught as well. Im not too sure if there is a way to prevent scum from stagggering sleep besides the obvious fact of catching all of them but the plan is decent and will provide organization and control.

I never said everyone sleep during the day. I have been saying over and over those we find the scummiest should be forced to sleep at night or be lynched.
I have no idea why UK keeps ignoring this point and forcing people to pick a day to sleep.
So far there is 4 people asking to sleep day 2 (which I think it's fair to discuss) beyond day 2 I would be saying no to certain people sleeping.

[Kenman]

never said everyone sleep during the day. I have been saying over and over those we find the scummiest should be forced to sleep at night or be lynched.

Yah I know, thats what I said in the second sentece you quoted.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: I've proposed it twice. All sleeping be done during the day, Projected players alive (hereby known as PA) minus Players to lynch (hereby known as PL) are actually allowed to sleep the next day, as determined by a town vote

So, PA-PL=Players allowed to sleep.

now, to determine who gets voted on, people volunteer to sleep.

Also, I love how conveniently Vis avoids saying anything today, when he knows DAMN WELL day is ending before he gets back.

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@easjo1: Too fucking bad. Quote stripes make my eyes bleed and it has been a gargantuan effort not to bitch you out for them.

@easjo2: Oh, I get it. Your logic is utterly stupid ^-^. That explains a whole lot. So, you are proposing that the mafia would...somehow KNOW a given power was used? Despite the fact that there are VERY few powers that make themselves known to the target? You still are not making sense.

To be clear, your logic fail is that the mafia somehow know a supposed power was used. Also that we aren't night sleeping anymore except POSSIBLY forcing the scummiest player who wants to sleep to do it.

@easjo3: It's earlier in this post. Please address it.

@easjo4: Already proved your logic to be stupid there.

@easjo5: And...you still haven't demonstrated it's anti town whatsoever, but thanks for FINALLY explaining that.

@easjo6: Ok, fine, just Vesu sucks .

@easjo7: You pointing out that he agreed to a plan where half the town sleeps and that wasn't what I said.

@easjo8: Which is still a terrible wagon because the logic you are using is demonstrably wrong.

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@Vasu: No, I'm voting you because your plans are demonstrably anti town, your logic is scummy, and your attacks on me are pure piggybacking and the ONLY "scumhunting" you've done.

I'd like to add "attempting to discredit your attackers" to the list but I've kinda done similar just with the pure amount of times I've called you stupid. Ah, fuck it, I'll add it anyway. You're doing it in a way that is trying to appeal to the town. I just called you stupid repeatedly because I thought as such.

In fact, yeah, at this point you've solidly reached the scummy side of discrediting attackers. You are using blatantly incorrect information and attempts to appeal to the majority to try to shake off the case on you without answering it.

As a bonus, you also are making excuses for your lack of scumhunting when most other players HAVE been scumhunting.

@Kenman: You have most of it. I've explained it in more detail at the top of this post. It's not EVERYONE sleeping, just the minority I guess (since it's everyone not in the majority)

@farside: Then just HOW are we going to verify that the "scummiest people" actually slept? And what does that accomplish anyone except nerfing our townie players who eventually need sleep? I don't see how your plan works EXCEPT as possibly in conjuction with mine.

Finally caught up, easjo and Vasu are still scum.

[easjo682]

Despite the fact that there are VERY few powers that make themselves known to the target?

how do you know that?

To be clear, your logic fail is that the mafia somehow know a supposed power was used.

your logic is somehow we divine who is mafia based on who is sleeping regardless of the fact that there could be some mafia sleeping and some mafia awake and therefore you don't narrow down the list of suspects at all.

also would you stop just saying my thoughts on the matter are stupid and actually tell me why they are stupid and why you refute what I believe to be a better way? It'll be more helpful to the discussion, saying its stupid is one thing, provide the reasoning behind it, maybe at least you'll help me see how you can think organised sleep is a good thing.
I don't care if you insult me or my ideas but at least add more to why the ideas or me are stupid.

[Nikanor]

Striding up to him, I said, "Hungry, Vastedon?"

You must all refer to me as "Hungry Vastedon the Dinosaur" from now on, 'kay?

Kenman's vote for VV is... a wtf moment for me. Kenman, you're still ignoring easjo. Both easjo and VV are guilty of what you're voting VV for. easjo has the bigger wagon. Thus, you should be voting for easjo. Why did you vote for VV instead?

@easjo1: Too fucking bad. Quote stripes make my eyes bleed and it has been a gargantuan effort not to bitch you out for them.

I was wondering where this had gone.

Anyway, we need to figure out what we're going to do with items. I think that UK should get whatever items fall from our lynchee today, but I dunno. We could always just have whoever wants the items grab them, and then force a person to give the item away if we don't like the person who grabbed it.

[UncertainKitten]

@easjo1:


Just...do you even bother with any mafia theory? Do you at all understand how power roles work? Please, please, spend a good hour in the wiki and come back with a list of roles that prove themselves as power roles to the target.

@easjo2: Strawman. At this point I've said that the mafia can't easily be divined by sleep cycle play.
Secondly, I HAVE REFUTED WHAT YOU'VE SAID! You OBVIOUSLY aren't reading my fucking posts at this point. I TOLD YOU WHY YOUR LOGIC SUCKED. And you are choosing not to listen.

And that, is, YOU personally being stupid.

READ THE FUCKING WORDS I TYPE BEFORE YOU ACCUSE ME OF SUPPOSEDLY NOT PROVIDING REASONING!

@easjo2: Oh, I get it. Your logic is utterly stupid ^-^. That explains a whole lot. So, you are proposing that the mafia would...somehow KNOW a given power was used? Despite the fact that there are VERY few powers that make themselves known to the target? You still are not making sense.

To be clear, your logic fail is that the mafia somehow know a supposed power was used. Also that we aren't night sleeping anymore except POSSIBLY forcing the scummiest player who wants to sleep to do it.

Did you just COMPLETELY FUCKING IGNORE THAT?

No, I tried to start this post nice. But that last part just PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF.

It's one thing to be stupid but at least be reading the other persons points. IT'S COMPLETELY ANOTHER TO HAVE THE FUCKING CHUTZPAH ACCUSE THEM OF NOT PROVIDING REASONING FOR WHY YOU'RE POINTS ARE STUPID WHEN IT'S RIGHT IN FUCKING FRONT OF YOU!

I'm sure people will bitch me out for how insulting this post is, but you know what? I DON'T FUCKING GIVE A DAMN AT THIS POINT.

Until people START FUCKING READING, I see NO need to play nice.

[UncertainKitten]

Nikanor brings up a good point. Items will be another problem and I'm not sure how we want to handle those. I'm a bit afraid of the "designated townie" logic, since there is really absolutely no reason to trust me or anyone else. I don't know what else to do though.

Also, for some reason my link broke, gimme a sec.



That was to easjo.

[easjo682]

Thank you for your eloquently put post UncertainKitten.

[UncertainKitten]

Quite eloquent I think. Well, I'm just trying to see if the diplomacy that my DnD character specialized in actually works. It's great, she bitches people out, rolls relatively high, and then everything works out :V.

[Nikanor]

UK, if I asked you to trust me, would you trust me?

[easjo682]

lol I bet you're one of those players that plays a satyr or a drow

[easjo682]

lol I bet you're one of those players that plays a satyr or a drow

[easjo682]

lol I bet you're one of those players that plays a satyr or a drow