Mini 956: The Quayside (Game Over)

[Ectomancer]

lol what? Ecto wasn't gambiting with his vig claim... he was counter-claimed by his own scumbuddy.

Ingenious

LOL I totally was. I was rather content with my 1-shot claim and then McGriddle comes out of nowhere with that even night vig claim and I was like wtf? From there I had to just start scrambling until it settled itself out, and then I was so confined in my options that you guys definitely caught wind that I was just sitting there.
It was a good game. I don't think town can feel too badly.

[Hoopla]

Quicktopics

Scum: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/5Tergw3gap6St
Masons: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/MRGzbksCxTCL9
The Dead: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/DkYGHdp4FtL

[Elmo]

It's kinda funny that I think I never thought Incog was town, and I pretty consistently didn't like Ecto's claimed kill target, but I pretty much switched my brain off and sheeped on Goat anyway. I think Goat has a habit of wanting to lead, and at present I'm never invested enough in the game to want to lead, so I just follow someone who's town. I was even thinking "ugh, this is wrong but wtf do I do - oh, whatever" when I voted. Muh, I should probably have replaced out back there.

I'm very amused by some things in the Mafia QT.

[Incognito]

Thanks for modding, Hoopla.


I remember thinking we were completely fucked when the masons came out and claimed. I was pretty upset about the claims when they first came out, actually - I felt disheartened that after all the work that was put in trying to make people see the "scumminess" of two people in iamausername and Jahudo, they were BOTH just going to be able to claim masons and completely avoid the noose not because their play looked more town than mine or anyone else's or not because they really invested themselves in the game but just because of their claims. It was disappointing. And then when the wagon just switched to McGriddle the way it did, I thought there was absolutely no way he'd be able to get out of a lynch since I thought he would end up claiming Roleblocker and that we'd go along with the strategy that we made in our QT, which didn't seem like it could last very long given the remaining players in the game. When I got back from studying and ish and saw that he claimed vig and saw that people started buying McG's and Ectomancer's vig claims though, I remember breathing a sign of relief, and I knew that I would at least still be able to aim at the people I had aiming at all along and that mislynch opportunities would still be available.

I don't know if this is confirmation bias, but I don't think I ever fully understood why the vig claims didn't get as much scrutiny as they did here. I mean, if I was town, I probably would have expected a real McGriddle vig to counterclaim Ectomancer and push for his lynch but that never happened - he just claimed Even Night vig and didn't seem to even mention anything about Ecto's vig claim at first. I'm not complaining or anything but it was just bizarre to me that nobody really pointed that out. I dunno.

Anywho, like I said before, gg. I had fun playing this one overall.

[Elmo]

Meh. Also, now I think about it, it's not OMGUS per se but I'm pretty sure Red's push against me meant I didn't put much effort into not thinking he was scum. I started out Day 2 fairly sure he was town, think I said as much. I guess that's new.

I'm pretty surprised Patrick thought SC was obvtown tho. Didn't remember him saying that; don't see it at all.

I don't know why the fuck I'm typing this since the post-game never goes anywhere, but whatever.

[Elmo]

I don't think I ever fully understood why the vig claims didn't get as much scrutiny as they did here.

Uh, this should be pretty obvious?

[SerialClergyman]

Ecto's play > me this game. The others I had varying suspicion on, and I'm pretty proud of my town reads (take note, haters) but he just got me - I liked his claim, he switched to protect McGriddle, he looked town - just 10 points all around.

Aside from that I had fun. Elmo, I don't think you sheeped onto goat much at all, as far as I'm aware you just had your reads and away you went.

[Incognito]

Or rather, I don't understand why they didn't get

more

scrutiny than they did here.

[Elmo]

I'm pretty proud of my town reads (take note, haters)

I don't think anyone actually suspected you for that, I only thought you pegging iam as town was weird.. I was looking for people linked to iam / Jah at that point (:roll:

I liked his claim, he switched to protect McGriddle, he looked town - just 10 points all around.

I dunno why it is, but pretty much every time someone waxes lyrical about how well someone did as scum, I'm somewhere between "meh" and confused, and I'm afraid I'll just look bitter if I say that. This is pretty much one of those times - I just fail to see how anyone has a basis for thinking he's town. I don't mean that he played

bad

, but I just don't see it.

Elmo, I don't think you sheeped onto goat much at all, as far as I'm aware you just had your reads and away you went.

I thought Goat would get pissed if I said "I'm really just sheeping Goat now" or similar. Even tho he likes to take the reins, so to speak. But yeah, I mean there's no way I've have e.g. gone from thinking Red was town early Day 2 to lynching him Day 3 if I wasn't pretty much going along with Goat. Even on Day 3, he's obviously, obviously town when he snap votes me because it makes

no sense

if he's scum, he's never getting me lynched in a 1-v-1 unless he's delusional, the only reason it makes sense is if he's completely tunnelled (which was also really bad, by the way) - and yet I voted with Goat. I guess it's telling that I don't really care, I'm just curious to find out who the scum were.

One thing I don't understand is how Incog was (lollerskates) considering me for N1/N2 kills and yet never pushed my lynch. I find that pretty weird.

I was kind of surprised to learn it was supposed to be an invitational actually, I dunno why the hell you would invite me to one =)

[Elmo]

Or rather, I don't understand why they didn't get

more

scrutiny than they did here.

cuz everyone was looking at the masons / Red because Goat was pushing them hard? What's not to get?

[Goatrevolt]

Owned. Well played scum team. Let me just say how surprised I am both vigs are scum. I was definitely doubting my read on the mason team as scum that last day, which is why I really wanted Red lynched over a mason and Ectomancer to shoot a mason the next night. I can't even say that I was close to getting the scum team, though, so yeah... I was thinking the team might be something like Red/Incog/Ectomancer, but I never had both vigs pegged as the scum.

The signs were there. McGriddle's claim of being roleblocked was definitely sketchy. That post was highly suspicious to me, and I thought about it while I was gone and meant to ask more about it when I got back from my trip but completely forgot. Ectomancer's claim was highly suspicious as well and more attention should have been placed there.

All in all, I got thoroughly thrashed. Nice job.

[SerialClergyman]

Mmm... Maybe it's just me but I'm really not liking this goat narrative... The guy tried hard and actively encouraged other people to agree with his reads - this is a good thing. There's no power trip or having to lead or whatever there - if you didn't think Red was town, don't vote him. ><

Probably the biggest mistake town made (I think) is after the claims we lynched two vanilla when it was clear we had way too much power. Worse than that, two groups of two of the power were CONNECTED, so if we'd hit one scum, we'd get the other one.

The vigs were interesting. After the McGriddle claim, the scum had a powerful bus one and the other is likely town scenario. After the Ecto switch they had a powerful double-confirming position as vigs but were vulnerable in that if one fell they both would.

I thought it was interesting that with a double scum roleblocker the scum have a lot of blocks, but if one gets lynched (like incog) then the town would assume no more blockiung, which put the fake claims in severe jeopardy.

[Elmo]

Mmm... Maybe it's just me but I'm really not liking this goat narrative... The guy tried hard and actively encouraged other people to agree with his reads - this is a good thing. There's no power trip or having to lead or whatever there

What's not to like? What's the difference between the two?

if you didn't think Red was town, don't vote him. ><

Well, duh. Does it read at all like I'm blaming Goat?

Not lynching Ecto (or at least some power role) D2 was completely retarded and really should only have happened because we were scrambling. Again, meh.

[Goatrevolt]

"I guess my biggest fear is for Goat or someone else to look at the pops-kill and say "hm. would it make sense for a hypothetical IAUN/Jah scum team to kill him when they were trying to push the idea of a him-scum during D2?" Night-kills right before LyLo just concern me a lot because night-time WIFOM analysis usually works WELL during LyLo."

Damn. I did say that. I just didn't pay it enough mind. And my next target was RedCoyote anyway

[Incognito]

One thing I don't understand is how Incog was (lollerskates) considering me for N1/N2 kills and yet never pushed my lynch. I find that pretty weird.

I figured you would realize my push on you was b.s. since I thought you were pretty aware that I normally have an easy time reading you. And I guess each time we went to Night, I was just paranoid that you'd suddenly turn on me the following Day since you have experience playing with both a town-me and a scum-me and that sooner or later you'd realize this was a scum-me. Since that never happened, I didn't want to stir the waters between us.

Or rather, I don't understand why they didn't get

more

scrutiny than they did here.

cuz everyone was looking at the masons / Red because Goat was pushing them hard? What's not to get?

That doesn't make sense. You can't seriously place the blame on one person when there was like 6 other people who were aligned on the side of the town at the time McG claimed who also didn't spot that. All it takes is for one person to say "uh, hey guys. Why didn't McGriddle ever counterclaim Ecto?" to just get people looking into that direction for responses from McG. But that just never happened here.

[SerialClergyman]

Well, duh. Does it read at all like I'm blaming Goat?

Yes, basically.

[NabakovNabakov]

Hate to say I told you so...

but I kinda' did. (At least about McG)

Oh well, gg.

[Goatrevolt]

Probably the biggest mistake town made (I think) is after the claims we lynched two vanilla when it was clear we had way too much power. Worse than that, two groups of two of the power were CONNECTED, so if we'd hit one scum, we'd get the other one.

Very true. We might have come to this conclusion had we more time. The deadline rush thing sucked a lot, though. .

Man, I made so many mistakes this game. Live and learn I guess. I just hate to play poorly .

[Goatrevolt]

Hate to say I told you so...

but I kinda' did. (At least about McG)

Oh well, gg.

[Incognito]

"I guess my biggest fear is for Goat or someone else to look at the pops-kill and say "hm. would it make sense for a hypothetical IAUN/Jah scum team to kill him when they were trying to push the idea of a him-scum during D2?" Night-kills right before LyLo just concern me a lot because night-time WIFOM analysis usually works WELL during LyLo."

Damn. I did say that. I just didn't pay it enough mind. And my next target was RedCoyote anyway

Yeah, I remember you saying exactly what I predicted what would be said. I had to try to put together a reason for why that would still happen, and you seemed to buy into it thankfully.

[Elmo]

I figured you would realize my push on you was b.s. since I thought you were pretty aware that I normally have an easy time reading you.

Not going to debate that one, but: so what? It just seems pretty weird to randomly be paranoid about me every Night. I think you're one of a small group of people who hugely overrate my play for no apparent reason, which is getting pretty irritating, honestly.

That doesn't make sense. You can't seriously place the blame on one person when there was like 6 other people who were aligned on the side of the town at the time McG claimed who also didn't spot that.

Well, I think that's a good part of why it happened, at least on Day 3. Day 2 was mostly rushed for time as far as I can remember. I don't think anyone seriously considered Ecto or McGriddle as scum - most people were looking elsewhere. People tend to keep looking where they're looking. It's pretty simple, to my mind.

Well, duh. Does it read at all like I'm blaming Goat?

Yes, basically.

Well, I'm not. I said as much in my first post; I have a bad habit of not being terribly involved in games, and one way that bites is sometimes I just pick someone townish and follow them. That's obviously my fault. I don't know where you get anything else from.

[Hoopla]

Probably the biggest mistake town made (I think) is after the claims we lynched two vanilla when it was clear we had way too much power. Worse than that, two groups of two of the power were CONNECTED, so if we'd hit one scum, we'd get the other one.

Very true. We might have come to this conclusion had we more time. The deadline rush thing sucked a lot, though. .

Speaking of which - what did you guys think about the bankable deadlines? They were implemented to do away with the needless fluffing about at the end of days when a lynch has been decided, so time management would be more of a factor. I think massclaim on Day 2 with little time banked from Day 1 hurt a lot, because there was so much information to sift through. That might just be a case of the deadlines being too short, rather than bankability being an issue, though.

14 days for Day 1, 10 days thereafter seemed like a sound ratio to minimise stalling without taking away too much time for the town to work with.

[Elmo]

Taking so long on Day 1 was stupid. One reason I was relatively stuck on NabNab was that I just wanted someone dead. Towns will pretty much

always

do this, though, for some reason. Hindsight bias, probably, but I'd expect it to play out almost exactly like it did.

I don't think it's necessarily bad, though, you can make an argument that using all the time available as early as possible is optimal. I don't really agree, but whatever.

[McGriddle]

gg guys How did everyone like mine and Ectos unspoken gambit? I must say, nice work nabnab, it's a shame we pwn so hard baha

[Goatrevolt]

I liked the bankable deadlines. I don't like random fluffing around at the end of the day after a lynch is decided either. You did a great job modding the game, Hoopla, by the way. You were quick, on top of things, and ran the game cleanly throughout.

The RedCoyote lynch was mostly just the easy way out. I wasn't sure enough about the masons to risk taking a shot at them, and I figured that regardless if it was the masons that Red had a fairly good shot at being scum (since I was convinced Elmo was town). Like SC said, we needed to take a shot at the masons or Vigs on day 2. Also, after reading through the dead player quick topic, I will say that a lot of the dead players had correct reads, but it's hard to act on those reads when you're not pushing them very convincingly. Like Pops was correct about Ectomancer, but thought 9 other people were scum as well. Or SC was right about McGriddle, but your last comment at the end of day 2 was about how we should have lynched Pops who came up town immediately afterward. All in all, I will say that Patrick's death did contribute to really the only suspicion of Incognito I had all game and SC's strong town read on Iam combined with Iam's clearing me as town + pops death were enough to give me at least reasonable doubt in lynching them day 3.

If I had chosen the right VT between Red/Incognito, then we would have seen Incognito flip roleblocker, and then when there wasn't an Ectomancer vig kill the following night, the game would have been unlocked. Sigh.