Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXIII:

- A Day Without Vi is like a Day Without...

Porkens (L-2) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo

Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Pomegranate (L-4) ~ VP Baltar

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x, dramonic,

Jahudo,

Pomegranate

---Please see the V/LA note in my sig.

Battery Power:

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

|

(76%)

[Porkens]

I don't think it's realistic that scum-SOG who did not have the power he described would claim that he did have that power.

d3x, what do you think of Porkens? Pom, have you reread him?

why arent you yelling at percy or juhado then?

[Jahudo]

@Mod: I voted Porkens in 545

I totally saw that. ~Vi

[Herodotus]

I don't think it's realistic that scum-SOG who did not have the power he described would claim that he did have that power.

d3x, what do you think of Porkens? Pom, have you reread him?

why arent you yelling at percy or juhado then?

huh?

[Porkens]

Sorry, I failed at reading. Forget I asked that. (jedi-mind trick).

Ok, so you are going to lynch me, that's fine I guess. There, boom, done.

However, I want you all to start thinking about what your going to do when I flip town.

I hope my power is cop or vig, oh that would be so sweet.

If I get vig I'm shooting percy.

[dramonic]

huh, could have sworn I was voting...

Vote: Porken

Nom nom nom!

Oh, and L-1.

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXIV:

- *catchy hold music*

Porkens (L-1) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo, dramonic

Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Pomegranate (L-4) ~ VP Baltar

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x,

dramonic,

Pomegranate

-Porkens is at L-1!

---Please see the V/LA note in my sig.

Battery Power:

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

|

(76%)

[Porkens]

I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.

I can't help but feel that you guys are looking for the double secret scum.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, time to go back and hit some things I didn't get a chance to due to lack of time this week.

People seem really focused on L-1. The rules don't imply that being at L-1 is necessarily the trigger for the "one last shot" abilities, regardless of the one sample role PM. While it may be a good idea to pause a lynch wagon when it reaches L-1, I see no reason to wagon someone just because it could potentially give them an ability.

Really? Why not? What are the downsides of this?

he has played that way as town. But I also have the feeling that he was playing to his meta and milking it on day one

Apart from similarities to Rhinox in Mafia Reverb, was there anything that gave you a vibe Porkens was "playing to his meta"?

Pomegranate 53 - buys into Porkens's idea, and I don't understand why.

I agree. Pom, how closely do you feel you've been paying attention to this game?

And d3x, dramonic and Pom still look cool for their involvement in lynching Nikanor.

I agree 100% about the first two, but it isn't inconceivable that Pom bussed. Combine that with her god-awful following on Day 2 and I think you have likely scum on your hands. Why do you think Percy looks worse than her?

The only time he's jumped on a wagon that wasn't already developed was when he jumped off the Nikanor wagon when Nikanor was at L-1 and voted for Seraphim/Cobalt, who had only one vote on him at the time - Nikanor's. Sure, he jumped back on to hammer Nik, but I read the jumping off as a last-ditch attempt to save his scumbuddy. Nikanor/Porkens makes a bucketload more sense than Nikanor/Cobalt.

I agree with this portion and I think it's one of the stronger points against Porkens. I don't mind him leaving at that time if he had a legitimate reason (we did still have time left to push another lynch), but his reasoning is pretty unconvincing overall and I don't see him really pushing the Cobalt lynch.

I mean, this is the same person who normally just wants to get a lynch pushed through on Day 1, so why counter the (by far) leading wagon?

Your interpretation of my votes is, sorry, wrong. You see a pattern where there is none, save that yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

You were on the strong wagon and then got off! That's the point.

I had asked Cobalt to explain his vote on me, and he never responded. I found him scummy from that point on.

So if he hadn't voted you, you wouldn't have found him scummy?

Is there a problem with finding two people scummy simultaneously?

No, but asking a question like this that blatantly misses the point is. My point is that you only seem to find people scummy after they are already the popular wagon of the day. This is pretty classic scum behavior. Additionally, your reasons for finding people scummy seem to be 'well, he found me scummy first.' I have a hard time buying that that's the best you can do.

Let me ask you this, do you find me scummy?

It's also not like I didn't make my own points (or build a lot on other people's points) against Nikanor.

Stop the exaggeration ambulance. I want to get off! Here is your explanation of the Nikanor vote...which is entirely based off of what others have already said as far as I can see. Feel free to point out how you 'built a lot on other people's points', because I'm not seeing it.

What is funny later as well was that when Nik explains using his personal meta to catch scum, you say:

Also, I guess I understand your method of scumhunting, but I really can't say that I agree with it.

Which doesn't show the kind of conviction toward the wagon that you seem to be implying you had.

Then toward the end of the day you basically don't care:

I think that this lynch is good, and will also help focus me for tomorrow...

Guess that never happened.

The deeper I go into Pom's iso, the more I like my case.

Porkens, what do you think of Pom?

[Porkens]

pom voted Dram for the same reason I did.

She seems to follow up on her promises to explain/rereads

Doesn't seem ESPECIALLY scummy to me

[Percy]

Porkens has taken credit for hammering scum and for not (ultimately) supporting a lynch of town. As for the first, VP Baltar said it better than I did:

You were on the strong wagon and then got off! That's the point.

@Porkens

: If you hated D1 and just wanted to get it over with and who even cares who gets lynched let's just have a night I take no responsibility for my D1 voting etc. etc. then why did you leave the Nikanor wagon to vote for the person Nikanor was voting for when Nikanor was at L-1? No answer?

...and as for the second: I had spent a lot of time thinking about SOG-scum before he activated his power. I was willing to hammer him. SOG's kingmaker ability could have been assigned independent of alignment. Using that ability was a nulltell. The fact that you are continuing to put most of the blame for the SOG mislynch on me makes me think you are more likely scum.

You also said that your vote on SOG wasn't for scum, but was for "motivation". I'd like some clarification about what exactly you were motivating him to do.

Also, no L-1 power? I take it you didn't get vig, since you haven't shot me. I know why you think I'm scum, but your reason (singular) is craplogic.

Hero (Cobalt/Sera) is downgraded as a suspect now that we know DDD and Tony are both town.

Hmmm. I agree that the Hero/Cobalt/Sera slot is town, and I came to that conclusion before the DDD and Tony/SOG flips. I think Jahudo's reasoning makes the read more solid. My read on Jahudo is becoming more murky.

As for the Pom wagon, I am feeling it. Especially given her play yesterday and the fact that she's only posted to defend herself today.

This thread needs moar d3x. The fact that he was a big part of the Nikanor lynching gives him top billing as town, but I want to hear more.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, how closely do you feel you've been paying attention to this game?

I don't know... I feel like I've fallen almost hopelessly behind. I already once started writing a PM to Vi to request replacement, but I felt bad, and stopped. But I think that for the sake of the rest of the game, I ought to, at this point.

@Vi: Please replace me.

[Porkens]

@Porkens: If you hated D1 and just wanted to get it over with and who even cares who gets lynched let's just have a night I take no responsibility for my D1 voting etc. etc. then why did you leave the Nikanor wagon to vote for the person Nikanor was voting for when Nikanor was at L-1? No answer?



Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.


MY l-1 power is a SECRET

[Jahudo]

I don't think it's realistic that scum-SOG who did not have the power he described would claim that he did have that power.

I think he's saying something along the lines of "if SOG was scum, he could still have explained it like this":

I can wipe the vote clean. At such a time that I do this, I will get to choose one person in the game and his vote will be the only vote to count for the day, essentially allowing that player to choose who the lynch is on his own.

The subtext of my ability includes that if I were to have known partners I would not be able to select any of them with my ability.

And scum SOG could have been lying about the bolded part.

I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.

1. Null tell
2. Null tell
3. Could be bussing
4. You didn't explain why SOG's action was pro-town and I still don't agree it was pro-town. Because I think he would have eventually used his power to help save himself as scum. The idea that it wouldn't help him could've been a nice touch if he thought the power he had wouldn't save him.

Though I agree about Cobalt having been a pretty good lynch yesterday.

Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.

Seraphim/Cobalt in post 264. Maybe about 48 hours until deadline, and you had said we needed a lynch.

What about Seraphim replacing out caused you to find his previous play scummy for the first time (ignore/feign ignorance/promise re-read)? You came up with that quick after he replaced out, so were you thinking about it earlier than that?

[dramonic]

MY l-1 power is a SECRET

My god, what incredibly TOWN play you've got there!

[Herodotus]

People seem really focused on L-1. The rules don't imply that being at L-1 is necessarily the trigger for the "one last shot" abilities, regardless of the one sample role PM. While it may be a good idea to pause a lynch wagon when it reaches L-1, I see no reason to wagon someone just because it could potentially give them an ability.

Really? Why not? What are the downsides of this?

There are a lot of little ones.
1. It takes time to put several players at L-1. While it's possible to scumhunt at the same time, the votes aren't going to be very meaningful while this is going on, and the relevant content will suffer. (This is the only certain downside, the rest of my points are caveats about the expected benefits.)
2. As I said in the paragraph you quoted, L-1 isn't necessarily the trigger -- it's very possible that only one or two players would learn their last-shot abilities by being at L-1.
3. TonyMontana pointed out that a player might have to use their ability instantly. Some possible abilities could cause a premature end to the day; others might only have helpful effects during later days.
4. We don't know the net balance of all these abilities. In terms of numbers, the town has more abilities than the scum, but the game could be balanced with the scum having stronger abilities. So overall the hypothetical activation of every ability would not necessarily favor the town.

he has played that way as town. But I also have the feeling that he was playing to his meta and milking it on day one

Apart from similarities to Rhinox in Mafia Reverb, was there anything that gave you a vibe Porkens was "playing to his meta"?

Porkens's day 1 play looks soft. He was neutering his votes and not trying to build wagons or scumhunt. I expect him to join wagons liberally, but I also expect town-Porkens to comment on his lynch preferences much more than he did on day 1 in this game. Here, it feels like he substituted "I'd lynch anyone" for "I think these people are scum." As I said, the only serious stance I get from him is the scumread on Dramonic, which he dropped without explanation.

The similarity was a separate point, which is that Porkens was throwing mud in a way that reminded me of the tell by which I decided that Rhinox was scum.

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXV:

- Perseverance

Porkens (L-

2

) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo, dramonic

Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Pomegranate (L-4) ~ VP Baltar

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x, Pomegranate

-Pomegranate is being replaced. Please hold...

Battery Power:

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

(69%)

[VP Baltar]

...

So your special ability was to increase your lynch threshold?

[Porkens]

What about Seraphim replacing out caused you to find his previous play scummy for the first time (ignore/feign ignorance/promise re-read)? You came up with that quick after he replaced out, so were you thinking about it earlier than that?

I do not remember.

MY l-1 power is a SECRET

My god, what incredibly TOWN play you've got there!

...really?

[Porkens]

...

So your special ability was to increase your lynch threshold?

yes

[Porkens]

Porkens wrote:
I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.
1. Null tell
2. Null tell
3. Could be bussing
4. You didn't explain why SOG's action was pro-town and I still don't agree it was pro-town. Because I think he would have eventually used his power to help save himself as scum. The idea that it wouldn't help him could've been a nice touch if he thought the power he had wouldn't save him.

3. Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

[VP Baltar]

Why did you want to keep your ability a secret and then go and use it shortly after?

Unfortunately, I think the ability doesn't really say much (seems to be a common trend). I'm still having a hard time reconciling the dissonance between your stated intentions day 1 and your actual play...and now I have to wait to see what a pomegranate replacement is going to say. Sigh.

You're really going to have to show me a good case on someone else if I'm not to put you back and L-1 Porkens.

[VP Baltar]

And where the hell is d3x?

[Porkens]

I had already used my power when Percy asked about it. I was just being a smart ass.

A case? meh; there's plenty out there, I think. However, I doubt that if I, porkens, make a case, anyone will look at it as anythig other than trying to wriggle out from under the hammer.

I'd look at Percy; using the kinghammer on the person who gave it to him. Or Cobalt, whose replacement came in hyper-agressive. I see a strong connection between Percy and Cobolt.

Or those who aren't posting at all; dx, dram, for example.

Pom has delivered on her rereads, attention-focused or not.

[VP Baltar]

You think d3x and dram look scummier than Pom?