Mini 956: The Quayside (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

My play was good. I defended myself a lot. You all are idiots who can't read me.

[Ectomancer]

His scum list was my town list.

Patrick, where's your scumlist at at the moment?

I'll give my worldview since I'm thinking about it. Nabakov is my best choice for scum atm, but with this day cooking nicely I'm still not in a rush to put him at lynch-1. Jahudo is the other main person I'm getting scummy vibes from -- I could see him as scum with or without Nabakov. RedCoyote I've bad a few bad vibes from but probably need to reread him since I've been glossing over some of his posts recently. On one or two occasions I've thought he may be using his thing with Goat to look active and avoid more important stuff, but again I'll really need to reread him to see if that's justified or if my feeling about him is really just that I disagree with alot of what he's saying. I saw a possible connection to NabakovNabakov too, but want to avoid building too much of my view of this game around the idea that Nabakov is going to flip scum.

This:

* PATRICK:
I don't know if its his style, but Patrick kept his random vote on Goatrevolt for most of today without finding him suspicious. It looks like he calls Goat town in Post 146 but he doesn't unvote until 258. This non-vote has allowed him to push cases without taking ownership or possible backlash that might come from a vote with holes in it. By that I mostly mean the Nabakov wagon, which he started to agree with when it was at L-6, in Post 146, but he doesn't say he'd vote or not until Nab's at L-2 and Patrick wouldn't want to be the L-1 vote. It could be stalling if Patrick didn't have more reasoning to be on the wagon since 146. And that's what I'm trying to read into with his posts and the evolution of the wagon.
@Patrick: What about the Nab wagon looked better by 196 that wasn't around by post 146.

Then he started to complain about the bloodthirstyness of the town, that things were rolling, and he didn't see why there was this great push to hammer.

As for Elmo, I get the feeling that he's used his numbers for informational purposes too. I don't think it had to be dragged out of him at all; I get the feeling that he didn't fully understand the purpose of it when he initially posted it but then he began to think of the potential for it later on down the line.

This is also bullshit. "Oh, I don't think he knew what he was doing, but he quickly came up with an excuse for doing it!"
Well blow me down! There is no way it could be busy work if he came with a reasonable reason for it after the fact!

Actually, that was pretty much how I saw it as well.

What exactly is your theory for what happened here? Elmo as scum decided to post a postcount chart to somehow appear active and involved, but failed to forsee that he might be questioned about conclusions, therefore was forced to invent conclusions after the fact to present to the town? I don't get what you're arguing at all.

Anyway, Nabakov's claim. I'm leery of lynching claimed poweroles but I'm leery of the claim too. I also don't like how little he's posted since claiming, after saying he'd fight the wagon like hell. I don't see him scumhunting, and I think a town powerole would be at this point.

RedCoyote... I'm struggling to agree with anything he says, but he's seemed more genuine to me as the day has gone on. He sounds like believes what he's saying.

I feel much worse about the way Ectomancer has pushed Elmo.

I'm having extraordinary difficulty figuring Incognito out. No idea why.

If Nabakov does flip scum then I'm not entirely sure if Jahudo is a buddy, though I still find him to be a shady figure in this game. If they are then Jahudo seems incredibly blatant at this point, trying to start a wagon on pops like that. I won't speculate anymore about pairings until we see whether Nabakov is scum or not. I'm happy to move forward with a Nabakov lynch, so

Vote: NabakovNabakov

Then we get to the hammer post. So he sees the situation with Elmo the same way as I saw it, but then pretends he cant figure out why it is scummy after explaining it...
Then, despite seeing it the way I saw it, asking me for the link to scumminess, he "feels much worse" about my push on Elmo. Say what?
And then, despite complaining about the pressure to lynch earlier, AND being engaged with me in a conversation on who I believe to be the better lynch, he doesn't wait and goes ahead and hammers. wtf??? After his case against Nab was primarily that some of Nab's comments were disingenuous?

That doesn't jive at all with his earlier expressed supposed desire to hash things out.

And of course, Nab's was town.

Not a hard choice for a kill.

[Goatrevolt]

I thought Patrick was fairly likely to be town. I thought his interactions with me and Incognito suggested a legitimate desire to understand our alignments. At any rate, we should focus on that and Ecto tomorrow, not today.

SC: Why did you choose Red second over McGriddle, who you are voting currently for, with the popcorn?

We seriously need to get a move on toward lynching. If people are fine with McGriddle going and don't care about looking into it any deeper than that, then at least say so. Can I interest anyone in a RedCoyote lynch?

[popsofctown]

I prefer blood on the ground GR. McGriddle or RC, whichever.

[RedCoyote]

I think we'd all have our personal preference on who to shoot. Personally I'd much rather have taken out a McGriddle with a vig shot, but like Goat or someone else mentioned, we've got some very real SK possibilities. Anyways, I'm 'nilla. I've got another post coming up, but I just wanted to get my claim out.

[popsofctown]

RC it's popcorn.

[RedCoyote]

Day 1 he spent most of his time arguing about me despite never voting me. Day 2, he jumps on me immediately and has an overdone "ah feels so good to finally vote Goat" statement that didn't feel sincere.

1) No possibility of you being lynched.
2) Didn't think you were most likely to be scum.
3) I engaged Elmo just as much as I engaged you.

Therefore, this is still inaccurate, just like it was when you brought it up earlier in the day. With D2's NabNab flip and your pops vote, you catapulted yourself into the number 1 slot; I didn't just arbitrarily decide you should be the vote.

Most of his pressure on me is based on misrepresentations, something that is more likely from scum than town. He seems unwilling to evaluate my alignment or consider my defenses in an attempt to discern whether or not I am town, but rather has "made up his mind" I'm scum already and precious little will sway him.

Then he unvotes me with no fanfare, which was odd.

I don't know what Goat calls my unvoting him if it isn't "evaluating" his defenses. Why else would I unvote him? To top it off, I'm scummy for listening to him and others. So, it's like, if I kept voting Goat... that means I'm unwilling to evaluate him. If I unvote him... that means I'm odd and not being genuine.

In other words this is all artificial filler to make his vote look better than it is. He's creating a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario to justify his vote no matter what I say.

The worst thing is his jump onto the Pops wagon. Read his post where he declares his intention to vote pops. There is 1 sentence about pops being scummy, and that sentence is simply about his votes moving around a lot. He doesn't bother to even suggest why that's scummy, just declares that it is.

It was obvious that pops had been climbing up my scumlist over the course of the game. If Goat can find an instance where I ever said that I was uncomfortable with lynching pops or that I didn't like his wagon, he's more than welcome to call me on it. He won't find it, because it doesn't exist. I even went back to indulge Goat by laying out a more traditional case structure for him, which he has yet to bring up. I didn't find it necessary, because my suspicion of pops wasn't anything new.

The biggest clue was when we started the day and I said that I liked the pops wagon.

Why would you not being able to logically vote two players mean you have to vote Pops?

Perhaps because I want a lynch before the end of the day?

His reasons to not vote for Jahudo were bad, especially the bit about nobody strongly pushing for him, because as you will recall, Mr. Coyote had no problems pushing for me when he was alone in that venture so obviously he doesn't believe that at all.

1) Why would I vote someone who I didn't think was scum?
2) Both Elmo and Incog, the biggest proponents of the scumJahudo argument, abandoned the wagon for iamausername, which in effect meant that the wagon was being pushed without anyone being on it.
3) I had no issue pushing to lynch Goat because

I was on the wagon

, which wasn't the case with Jahudo.

Therefore, this is still inaccurate, just like it was when you brought it up earlier in the day.

---

Can I perhaps get a teensy bit of town credit for defending pops? No?

Hah. Okay, I'll do that just as soon as you give me credit for defending the Masonry.

---

RC it's popcorn.

Popcorn is so silly. Does the order really matter? I pick whoever is next to make a post between Elmo, Incog, and McGriddle.

[popsofctown]

Yes. The order matters.


You're a delinquent.

I choose McGriddle on your behalf.

[SerialClergyman]

I chose Red because I wanted to get this thing under way and I thought McGriddle would take some time. As long as you're last, Goat, I don't particularly mind.

I have a sneaking suspicion that McGriddle isn't going to post properly before deadline.

[Goatrevolt]

Therefore, this is still inaccurate, just like it was when you brought it up earlier in the day. With D2's NabNab flip and your pops vote, you catapulted yourself into the number 1 slot; I didn't just arbitrarily decide you should be the vote.

You made it quite clear that Nabakov being scum wouldn't influence your Elmo read because of his limited content. Why did Nabakov being town influence your Goat read? And my vote on someone you thought was probably scum is scummy? Do explain. How did Pops catapult into the number 2 slot? Why did Elmo drop from 1 to 3, especially with Nabakov being town?

I don't know what Goat calls my unvoting him if it isn't "evaluating" his defenses. Why else would I unvote him? To top it off, I'm scummy for listening to him and others. So, it's like, if I kept voting Goat... that means I'm unwilling to evaluate him. If I unvote him... that means I'm odd and not being genuine.

There are plenty of reasons one might unvote another player without regard to their defense. One such reason might be a need to get on a different wagon, say pops. Your unvote on me lacked any real reasons why you decided to do it except that you didn't think I would go through all that work. Did you really think that me making a few long posts is too much work for me as scum and drop me to about middle of the pack on your reads because of it?

I said you were unwilling to evaluate me because you used the same recycled arguments against me over and over and over again and never bothered one time to respond to or try to refute my rebuttal to those poor arguments.

It was obvious that pops had been climbing up my scumlist over the course of the game. If Goat can find an instance where I ever said that I was uncomfortable with lynching pops or that I didn't like his wagon, he's more than welcome to call me on it. He won't find it, because it doesn't exist. I even went back to indulge Goat by laying out a more traditional case structure for him, which he has yet to bring up. I didn't find it necessary, because my suspicion of pops wasn't anything new.

I'm not going to find a post, because I'm sure it probably doesn't exist. That's not the point. The point isn't whether or not you liked the pops wagon or showed proclivity to it in the past. The point is purely that when you made a move to get on the Pops wagon, your reasoning behind it was terrible.

You made a big show of saying how you didn't like the main two alternate wagons of the day and somehow that boils down to you wanting on the pops wagon. There are some big issues here. I'm going to address this below.

Why would you not being able to logically vote two players mean you have to vote Pops?

Perhaps because I want a lynch before the end of the day?

This is terrible. Alarms should be going off here.

Your post was a full week before deadline. Pops was at L-1 and he wasn't going anywhere. If your purpose was to get a lynch before the end of the day you had plenty of time to explore other alternatives.

Here's why this is a huge problem.

1. He didn't try to lynch Nabakov day 1 for reasons like this. Nab's lynch happened much closer to deadline than Red's post, and Red never made a move to get on Nabakov based on needing a lynch by deadline. He continued debating with me/Elmo all the way up to when Patrick hammered. So I really don't buy that he really wants this lynch by the end of the day so he needs to make bad justifications to get on the pops wagon that is sitting at L-1.

2. Pops is his number 1 scum suspect, based on his handy little ordered list. If pops is his number 1 scum suspect, then his reasons to vote pops surely should have absolutely nothing to do with A. needing a lynch by deadline (7 days out) or B. doesn't like either of the other two wagons so it's pops by default. Instead, it should entirely be "This is why pops is scum. Bam."

All in all, take a good hard look at this and tell me if it makes sense. His number 1 scum suspect is pops, yet in his post where he declares his intentions to hammer pops, his reasons are that he doesn't like the other two wagons so by virtue of wanting a lynch before a deadline a week away, he's going to vote Pops. This is a huge, huge problem. A town player is going to want to lynch their top suspect because they believe their top suspect is scum. Their reasons are going to be because they believe their top suspect to be scum. Their reasons are not going to be because it's near deadline and they need a lynch and because they don't like either of the two other wagons, so therefore they will get on this one.

tl;dr he's scum.

His reasons to not vote for Jahudo were bad, especially the bit about nobody strongly pushing for him, because as you will recall, Mr. Coyote had no problems pushing for me when he was alone in that venture so obviously he doesn't believe that at all.

1) Why would I vote someone who I didn't think was scum?
2) Both Elmo and Incog, the biggest proponents of the scumJahudo argument, abandoned the wagon for iamausername, which in effect meant that the wagon was being pushed without anyone being on it.
3) I had no issue pushing to lynch Goat because

I was on the wagon

, which wasn't the case with Jahudo.

1. Your reasons for thinking Jahudo wasn't scum were
a. He's not the biggest lurker.
b. He's done offense and defense
c. The people pushing his lynch are on a different wagon

Both A and B applied to pops as well. Both showed a complete lack of desire to actually look into Jahudo any deeper than whether or not he's attacked others or defended himself to others. What attacks were good? What defenses were good? None of these are real reasons to think someone is town. Every single player in this game has done B. Only one player in this game is guilty of A. C has nothing to do with whether or not Jahudo is scum but is about those two players instead. You provided nothing legitimate to believe pops is scum and you gave nothing legitimate to believe Jahudo was town.

2. You pushed me as suspicious day 1 without being on the wagon. Surely you don't believe the load of crap that since they weren't on the Jahudo wagon they couldn't believe he was scum or that the case against him was any weaker as a result.

3.

Sometimes it's like I feel very distant from you, but other times I think you're right on the nose. I obviously don't agree with your conclusion, but you're right about how the D1 lynch should go. From where I'm standing, McGriddle, Elmo, or Goat should eat the first lynch.

Regardless what anyone thinks about NabNab, we really should bring someone else under fire at this point. NabNab should not be allowed to coast into the noose, especially if he flips town. Who is a reasonable alternative? I've said Elmo or McGriddle, but I think I'd now be supportive of pops as well.

I'm pretty sure those quotes from day 1 say it all. You were fine with McGriddle/Goat/Elmo/Pops lynches yet you weren't on all of those wagons at the same time. You certainly couldn't have taken issue with them wanting to lynch Jahudo despite not being on the wagon, since you yourself were game to lynch any of those above players despite only being on the Elmo wagon day 1. In other words, your arguments in favor of Jahudo being town were pure crap.

[Goatrevolt]

How about everyone just claims when they next post. I'll claim last.

[popsofctown]

He just romps in his own confirmedness and tells everyone he'll claim last. So surefooted.

[SerialClergyman]

How about everyone just claims when they next post. I'll claim last.

!support

[Goatrevolt]

Why Red over Incognito?

[Goatrevolt]

To clarify, that's directed at Clergyman as to why he picked Red 2nd for popcorn.

[SerialClergyman]

As I mentioned earlier, Patrick's death being a vig shot both made Incog look less suspicious (Patrick's suspicions were irrelevent if the mafia didn't kill him) and Red look more suspicious (he had a greater reason to go after you if he's scum, the NK on you didn't work and there was a secondary kill).

[Goatrevolt]

Why is McGriddle scummier than RedCoyote?

[popsofctown]

He's not, he's just less likely to be readable in subsequent days.

[SerialClergyman]

Position on wagons, primarily. McGriddle has taken a similarly late entry onto both wagons. Red has been more involved with the game, and although they're both suspicious after the claims I think McGriddle is less of a loss.

I'm at work atm so can't write pages.

[Hoopla]

Day 2, Vote Count 12

With ten alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch. Deadline is schedueled for 10:00AM GMT, May 9th <Countdown>.

McGriddle

-

4

(iamausername, popsofctown, SerialClergyman, RedCoyote)

popsofctown

-

1

(McGriddle)

RedCoyote

-

1

(Goatrevolt)

Not Voting

-

4

(Jahudo, Ectomancer, Incognito, Elmo)

[Goatrevolt]

Meh, I don't really care for the less of a loss argument. If Red is scum, then he's more of a loss being in the game than a scum McGriddle would be.

[RedCoyote]

You made it quite clear that Nabakov being scum wouldn't influence your Elmo read because of his limited content. Why did Nabakov being town influence your Goat read?

With D2's NabNab flip and

your pops vote

, you catapulted yourself into the number 1 slot

"With NabNab's vote and your subsequent pops vote" is probably more accurate, but because you voted pops at the beginning of the day (according to you pops is suspect because of his ties to NabNab), you earned my vote.

And my vote on someone you thought was probably scum is scummy? Do explain. How did Pops catapult into the number 2 slot? Why did Elmo drop from 1 to 3, especially with Nabakov being town?

Why would it matter what I thought about pops? Scum can't vote scum?

pops had always been near the top of the list for me, except for the very beginning of the game, along with McGriddle and Elmo. This has never shifted that much, you are the one who has been jumping around my scale.

Why did Elmo drop from 1 to 3, especially with Nabakov being town?

He didn't. He's effectively in the same spot as he has been, right next to McGriddle. Him and McGriddle are about even for me. pops put himself infront of Elmo/McGriddle, not the other way around.

Your unvote on me lacked any real reasons why you decided to do it except that you didn't think I would go through all that work. Did you really think that me making a few long posts is too much work for me as scum and drop me to about middle of the pack on your reads because of it?

No, not particularly. I think you did well to explain how your pops vote was removed from NabNab, which I previously didn't understand. Hence, you put a good amount of work into proving that, which I don't think scum would've (or could've).

Anyways, it's just another example of your circular logic. I'm not taking in your arguments, therefore I'm scum. When I do take in your arguments, I don't do them enough justice according to you, therefore I'm scum. I suppose if I voted you again you'd jump at the chance to call me out for that as well.

I said you were unwilling to evaluate me because you used the same recycled arguments against me over and over and over again and never bothered one time to respond to or try to refute my rebuttal to those poor arguments.

If you want to make this a war of walls, then so be it. I stepped aside because I didn't think it was getting us anywhere. I had thought that you agreed with this, but that's apparently not the case.

I mean seriously, you really are one to talk Goat. You keep coming at me with this idea that I'm ignoring what you have to say, when I think I've answered for this argument that, "I wasn't voting you on D1 despite arguing with you", about fifty times. How many times must I say Elmo was scummy to me for you to step back for a second and soak that in? You keep bringing it up like it's some sort of new point, like I've never addressed it.

Your circular arguments, popularity appeals, and fraudulent, artificial rationale behind your votes and reads... this all still applies, you know. I backed off because I was able to see, based on your responses and SC's revelations, that you had more to say about pops yesterday than I gave you credit for. That doesn't change the fact that your approach to the game and your approach to my criticism of you has been suspect at best. It's like, I bring up the fact that your NabNab vote is crap, which it was, your deliberate tying of your Jahudo and pops reads to that NabNab read was ineffective and shoddy, which they were, and you act as though I'm talking out of my ass. I'm not, you know, these are completely valid concerns. The way you write everything I say off as ridiculous or repetitive is a way of you skirting responsibility, but the icing on the cake, the absolutely red flag in my mind was when you went the extra step into logical fallacy territory with your nonsense about how I need to get in line because "nobody else feels the same way as I do". You won't even give an inch either, so it's not like I'm not being reasonable. You say I don't have anything legitimate at all, which is an out-and-out lie. Either you're really too blind to see that you've brought a lot of this on yourself, or you're stubbornly trying to keep me from pressuring you with an array of nonsense including, but not limited to, popular appeals, threats of voting, claims of paranoia, and claims of emotions clouding my judgment.

The point isn't whether or not you liked the pops wagon or showed proclivity to it in the past. The point is purely that when you made a move to get on the Pops wagon, your reasoning behind it was terrible.

How? How can that possibly be true? I already had explained my proclivity toward a scumpops and my support of the wagon. You never thought to call me on it then. All of a sudden, now that pops has a few more votes, and I

remind

everyone that I

still

had interest in voting pops, you act as though you're surprised. You even quote me saying that pops has moved into my scum territory during D1 later in this post!

I'll be the first one to admit that I hadn't made an "official" case up to Goat's standards, which is partially why I took the time to do so, but that doesn't mean I had no reasoning whatsoever. I can point to multiple instances of me calling out pops today and yesterday. Maybe rather than throw out these patently false accusations, you should try to do a little research on whether or not I had reasoning behind my willingness to vote pops (all this and I never even voted him for goodness sakes, I only expressed desire to).

Your post was a full week before deadline. Pops was at L-1 and he wasn't going anywhere. If your purpose was to get a lynch before the end of the day you had plenty of time to explore other alternatives.

Be specific. What other alternatives? It can't be you, can't be Jahudo, can't be iamausername.

I spent the entire D1 on Elmo getting nowhere. I spent most of D2 on you getting nowhere. People aren't receptive to my cases. That's fine, you know, I accept that; I'm a big boy. Everyone here has a pretty strong leader mentality, I think. I don't really have a problem with that, except when you try to use this against me here.

Anyways, so that's 5/9 possibilities down. I think Ecto and Incog and pretty town. That's 7/9. Who are we left with? McGriddle and pops.

I had no problem with a McGriddle lynch, but what the heck am I supposed to do with it? Complain about his lack of activity? Well, yeah, he's in a darn hospital. I've asked him to replace out, you know. What else am I supposed to do?

1. He didn't try to lynch Nabakov day 1 for reasons like this. Nab's lynch happened much closer to deadline than Red's post, and Red never made a move to get on Nabakov based on needing a lynch by deadline. He continued debating with me/Elmo all the way up to when Patrick hammered. So I really don't buy that he really wants this lynch by the end of the day so he needs to make bad justifications to get on the pops wagon that is sitting at L-1.

Wrong.

If Pat or someone else hasn't hammered by the next time I log on, then I'll do it myself. I don't like the way NabNab claimed, and I don't think there's the strength (or initiative, sadly) to get someone else as an alternative.

2. Pops is his number 1 scum suspect, based on his handy little ordered list. If pops is his number 1 scum suspect, then his reasons to vote pops surely should have absolutely nothing to do with A. needing a lynch by deadline (7 days out) or B. doesn't like either of the other two wagons so it's pops by default. Instead, it should entirely be "This is why pops is scum. Bam."

Wrong.

I never argued that we needed a lynch by the deadline. That's a strawman. It had nothing to do with the deadline. I said we needed a lynch before the end of the day in the sense that I want a lynch. I'm not going to vote Elmo and be redundant and watch the day end without a lynch, obviously. Additionally, there is something to be said for bankable deadlines, which I thought would be more useful than not. And also, are you implying I should've lynched pops before he claimed when you say "Bam"? Otherwise this is just an extension of your nonsense that I didn't have reasoning for suspecting pops.

Both A and B applied to pops as well. Both showed a complete lack of desire to actually look into Jahudo any deeper than whether or not he's attacked others or defended himself to others.

Maybe you've never played with Jahudo before, but I have. I happen to know he isn't very post heavy. pops, on the other hand, is extremely post heavy. So, in other words, a little relativity coming from you would be nice. Elmo, pops, and Incog's big arguments, so far as I could tell, were how Jahudo was defending NabNab and how he was acting backgroundish or lurky or whatever adjective you want to use. iamausername obviously had to stick up for Jahudo, but I agreed with him. I still don't really get where the Jahudo suspicions came from, nor do I really get where the NabNab suspicions came from if you want me to be perfectly honest. The whole reason I even brought up the fact that Jahudo had a competent offense and defense was because I was racking my brain trying to figure out what it was that made Jahudo scummy. I don't know how many times I've read his posts, but I just don't really get it. I'm sure there's some bias involved with us agreeing on a few different players, but I still don't see how a player like Jahudo could ever rise above a McGriddle, or, heck, even an Elmo or pops really. I see much more objective reasoning behind voting these players.

You pushed me as suspicious day 1 without being on the wagon. Surely you don't believe the load of crap that since they weren't on the Jahudo wagon they couldn't believe he was scum or that the case against him was any weaker as a result.

So much is being made out of this that it isn't even funny. The entire idea was that I thought it was kind of funny that Jahudo was still being thrown around as this obvious scum when his wagon had been abandoned by the biggest proponents and no one else was interested in voting him. I saw Jahudo in a good light in spite of his wagon. It didn't really matter whether there were people on his wagon or not. I mean, there were people voting iamausername and I didn't vote him... because I didn't see him as scum. The same deal goes for Jahudo.

I'm pretty sure those quotes from day 1 say it all. You were fine with McGriddle/Goat/Elmo/Pops lynches yet you weren't on all of those wagons at the same time. You certainly couldn't have taken issue with them wanting to lynch Jahudo despite not being on the wagon, since you yourself were game to lynch any of those above players despite only being on the Elmo wagon day 1. In other words, your arguments in favor of Jahudo being town were pure crap.

It doesn't really matter does it, Goat? None of this matters, because by the time you respond to this, you'll have forgotten anything I've said prior. If that's really what you want to think, you know, if you want to delude yourself to the point that my entire precept of mafia is whether people are on a wagon or not, then be my guest. I think people will see your asinine, erratic rantings just for what they are. Heaven knows that I never had anything to say about any other player or any other situation in this game. Jahudo is town simply because no one is voting him at some random time during the end of D2. I never so much as even knew Jahudo was in the game before page 22 or 18 or whatever page it was.

As to your desperate attempt to tie it to a D1 lynch: Because saying I'm content with lynching specific people on D1 is exactly the same as questioning why it is Incog, pops, and Elmo are pushing the Jahudo wagon from the sidelines. Right, there's no difference between these two things at all. I take some solace in the fact that at least SC has the cajones to call you on your irrational, overinflated diatribe, and I encourage anyone else to stand with me in shouting you down until you're willing to take a look at yourself for two seconds. As strange as it may seem, it's possible that you may have done something wrong for once in your life, Goat. You may have been wrong to write everything I have to say off as ridiculous. Maybe if you pulled away from the blinders for a moment you'd be able to sneak a peek at the same game I'm seeing.

McGriddle or Elmo should be our lynch today.

[Hoopla]

A friendly warning; the Day 2 deadline is in 48 hours. In the event there isn't a majority by then, there will be no lynch.

[Goatrevolt]

Funny. Don't have time to fully respond now, but I will do so later. I'm glad to see you haven't bothered to stop the misrepresentation or appeal to "the big bad" as I'll put it. You continue to act as though I'm on some sort of a pedestal and everyone is too afraid to attack me or call me out, as though I have this reputation that is unbreakable and untouchable by all. That's obviously not the case.

You act as though I have this belief where I cannot possibly be wrong ever. If that were the case I wouldn't change my mind on who I think is scum as often as I do. I understand that I'm not always right. I was wrong about Nab, probably wrong about Jahudo, and regardless of your alignment I've been wrong about you at some point this game. You've spent the entire game trying to discredit everything I've said as being irrational or wrong, and you have held on to this same list of grievances I've made despite me having responded to them infinite times and you failing to respond to any of my defenses. Again, in the above post you list that same tired list of things I've done wrong. Again, all of them are misrepresentations. Again, I have addressed them over and over, yet you choose to ignore that. The appeal to popularity point, debunked. The "fraudulent reasoning" point. Debunked. Yet you bring it up yet again as though I've had nothing to say on the matter.

Your circular arguments, popularity appeals, and fraudulent, artificial rationale behind your votes and reads... this all still applies, you know.

Addressed. All of them. Infinite times. You bring them up again without regard for my defense. You don't even acknowledge that my defense for these exists, despite me making the same defense innumerable times for all of these points. In essence, you proved the exact point I was making by doing the exact damn thing you've done all game, which is ignore what I actually have to say and stick to the script on me.

[Goatrevolt]

I think Clergyman is trying to ride out the day without taking a strong stance on RedCoyote.

I also dislike how RedCoyote has had SC at a relatively high point on his scum meter the entire game but has done no investigation or probing into SC.

Some commentary by everyone else would be nice.