I will update this by Friday evening. With all these claims out on the table, this game is beginning to remind me of Mafia in Ludd. I've got 3 exams over the next two days that need my undivided attention and a bunch more next week, so I don't have time to think about all of this just yet.
For now,
unvote
.
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
We already have a lot of power outed, scum are hitting guaranteed power from here on out whether we've claimed or not. I also want to know if these claims are too good to be true, and a massclaim is the way to do it. Plus we lock scum into the fake claim early, that's always important.
I'll go first and popcorn, unless someone has a better idea (goat could pick? A mason could pick?)
iam - think /inv 4. This is the way to play, I'm pretty sure.
although Clergyman claiming first and then popcorn is also fine. I don't foresee it being a huge deal either way.
I am also feeling fairly confident that RedCoyote is scum and would love to lynch him. McGriddle could be scum, but he's not my first pick.
I'm worried that Ecto is a SK of sorts. If so, he's cut off his ability to kill again until endgame, though, so I don't see him as an immediate priority. Ecto is probably not mafia, although that possibility exists. 1-shot vig claim reaaaally makes me suspicious, though, especially with a shot on Patrick and the lack of belief of pops claim despite knowing there would have to be a doctor on the loose because of the missing N1 kill.
My suggestion is to lynch RedCoyote. If he's town, then Pops checks Elmo. If he's scum, then Elmo is most likely town by virtue of RC/Elmo day 1 interactions that seem unlikely to be distancing. In that case, I'd suggest Pops check Incognito.
As for why I want to lynch RedCoyote. Day 1 he spent most of his time arguing about me despite never voting me. Day 2, he jumps on me immediately and has an overdone "ah feels so good to finally vote Goat" statement that didn't feel sincere. He had ample opportunity and "reasons" to vote me all along and didn't. Most of his pressure on me is based on misrepresentations, something that is more likely from scum than town. He seems unwilling to evaluate my alignment or consider my defenses in an attempt to discern whether or not I am town, but rather has "made up his mind" I'm scum already and precious little will sway him.
Then he unvotes me with no fanfare, which was odd. There was pretty much nothing I said that hadn't already been said before, and he had already been stubborn beyond belief in his suspicions of me so I'm curious why that even happened. It didn't seem like a genuine backing off the wagon. Perhaps it was to set up the Pops hammer.
The worst thing is his jump onto the Pops wagon. Read his post where he declares his intention to vote pops. There is 1 sentence about pops being scummy, and that sentence is simply about his votes moving around a lot. He doesn't bother to even suggest why that's scummy, just declares that it is. The rest of the post is about two people who Red decides to "clear" and that he can't vote for, so therefore he decides he needs to vote pops. Terrible. Why would you not being able to logically vote two players mean you have to vote Pops? Red has no problem avoiding a popular wagon and he has no problem pushing a solo suspect as he demonstrated with the Nab wagon and me respectively, so this is a load of BS. His reasons to not vote for Jahudo were bad, especially the bit about nobody strongly pushing for him, because as you will recall, Mr. Coyote had no problems pushing for me when he was alone in that venture so obviously he doesn't believe that at all.
I also think SerialClergyman is scum, but that's a much harder sell. My thoughts on him is mostly that I don't think he cares much about finding scum. I don't see a lot of genuine effort and hunting from him, and I think he was too confident in his town read on Iam for what it was worth. I also think he was pushing far too strongly for pops to go for someone who relies more on town than scum tells. It felt agenda driven, and I never much cared for his post where he placed the vote on pops. In the meantime, he did zero scum hunting. He didn't bother to look for other scum at all.
Mostly I feel his push on pops was far too strong and he wasn't bothering to consider alternatives or look for other scum or try to even evaluate if pops was the right lynch. I felt that coming from day 1 Nabakov being town, a town SC would be a bit more undecided and do more scumhunting and considering his options before jumping so strongly onto pops. The segue from Nabakov town to pops with such strength of conviction and such lack of other scum hunting simply doesn't strike me as genuine town play.
Goat - good reasons to suspect me include my position on the wagon and percieved lack of scumhunting.
A terrible reason to suspect me is my town reads. It's really a huge part of my game. I haven't just had a strong town read on iam, I've also had one on you, and the fact that i pushed so hard for both of you is vindicated in that I'm right, and it was useful for me to do that. So all I can do is say look at my meta and look at my arguments and thought processes behind that. I don't back myself into a corner as scum and I've had so many town reads that's exactly what I'd be doing.
As for defending the good reasons to suspect me - I don't have much of a defence about being on the wagons other than I thoguth they were good wagons *shrug*.
As for not scumhunting - despite my votes not changing very much i feel I've done a hell of a lot of questioning that other people weren't prepared to do - look at my work on Patrick D1 and Incog D2 for example. I haven't voted these peopel or put them at the top of my list, but I think it's obvious I've been probing and doing more work than you're giving me credit for. Also, the town reads are essentially scumhunting that found town rather than scum, and I've been very vocal both in where I stand on everyone and where I think people should be looking.
Having said all that, it's not the end of the world to have some suspicion now I'm not in the role-confirmed group, so can't complain. I'm glad I'm not number 1.
Also - Nab's town flip did change my views, just not on pops. He pushed pops ahead of Jahudo.
I'm glad you're behind the massclaim, I'll wait till we get a few more people confirming before we start.
Jahudo wrote:This role has been pretty uncomfortable so far, trying to lay low (which i guess is "backgroudsy") so we could survive when there's only a few people left in the game and masons are more valuable.
Yeah, I don't dislike this at all, it's just that I almost always worry about backgroundsy people being a power role of some sort and mostly they're not. Ah well.
Gonna think about the claims.. I approve of massclaim at this point.
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
Goatrevolt wrote:I'm wondering why I was chosen to be NKed, assuming Ecto/Pops are to be believed. I thought I was a pretty unlikely choice, all things considered.
I thought you'd be a great choice, in fact I said so vocally to my scumbuddies last night.
RedCoyote wrote:pops' claim is easier to swallow, as he has a useful power. Elmo would probably be my go to lynch, but I've been wanting a McGriddle lynch since early in D1.
Can I perhaps get a teensy bit of town credit for defending pops? No?
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
Unfortunately I think Pops is going to get NK'ed no matter who he targets.
A massclaim is probably best today. I like the order Goat suggests.
I'm suspicious of McGriddle and SC. I don't have a problem with Ecto's claim. It explains his first post of day 2, not being settled with Patrick's hammer post.
To be honest I've had a town read on RC, partly because he seemed to be okay with what I was doing. But maybe I'm being biased and should really look at Goat's case on him again. I'm feeling okay about Elmo and Incog. And I agree Goat looks town through all of this.
too convenient for my tastes. Hello? Yes, I knew scum's kill didn't go through,
but so did they.
A scum in trouble like Pops could very easily have figured there is a Doc or roleblocker out there and then made that fake claim to draw them out while he was going down. That claim, in fact, made it MORE suspicious to me. Yeah, I know scum didn't make a kill last night and then magically a Doc claims the next day. How nice!
You people have a distressing lack of suspicion sometimes...
I think Elmo or McGriddle would be fine. Elmo especially fine.
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)
When I decided that despite my misgivings, Pop's actions and explanations
do
actually fit events.
Not
revealing what I knew at that point would have simply been me being stubborn about my problem with Pop's. I try not to let my ego get in the way of the proper thing to do...most times. It's still a really damn convenient claim though
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)
GR, you yourself has pointed out we have LOTS of town power. A roleblocker or bus driver from the scum is pretty darn likely, so my ability to investigate is very hampered. Yeah, if two people die then that's nice, but if I'm declaring my target to the scums two people won't die. They get choices too.
My intended night action as of now is to protect GR, IAU, or Jahudo. If there's a double death it should be assumed that IAU or Jahudo falseclaimed.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I could have investigated if I didn't have to claim. This is why you all should have listened to Elmo.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Elmo wrote:The thing I want to hear most, right now, is why Patrick was a good N1 vig target.
This, still.
I briefly touched on my dissatisfaction with Patrick at the beginning of this day. Any other player in this game would likely get a more elaborate answer, but I'm underinspired to put in the effort for you. You can be satisfied that the reluctant hammer vote is dead and I can be satisfied that is enough for you. You can argue "scum don't hammer" with someone else.
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)
Well, he said ANY other player soz i'm gonna do elmo a favor.
Hey ectomancer why'd you kill Patrick N1?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Noting that said you "claim" VT as if it might be contrary to fact.
See I can write incomplete sentences too.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Yep, note it and then at the end of the game add this case to the pile that says that's a terrible scumtell.
And while I'm being snide, if we'd listened to elmo we'd have lynched a mason. If you're town, time to suck up the fact you've had to claim and look forward.
Look forward, not behind at the fact the case against him was terrible and certain people have been saying that for some time?
I mean is my/his viewpoint seriously supposed to be "well, a bunch of people pushed a terrible case against someone who's now likely town, but he didn't get lynched so LET'S FORGET ABOUT IT AND ALL BE FRIENDS NOW"?
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
No the point is that you guys were pushing a case on a claimed mason, and we were pushing a case on a claimed weak doc. I personally think the masons are extremely likely to be telling the truth, I'm not sure but willing to go with the weak doc.
So enough with the hypocritical bitch fest. You can look at the wagons, look at who you think belived it or not, but sitting there complaining to the world at large because you've had to claim is not productive, and stupid in that your proposed alternative was just as bad.
And that's not to mention that our (my) suspicion doesn't exist in a vacuum and that pops' play and defense were lacking.
