Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

It's only too powerful for scum. Me using the ability will in pretty much all cases be detrimental to the town.

I assume the reason my power is unlimited is that it makes more sense thematically. The Halls of Mandos are mine, why would I only be able to prevent someone from leaving once?

Vote Count 3 - 17: Lynch

Steam-Powered Shovel -

8

- Jack, SpyreX, MehPlusRawr, Cobalt, Papa Zito, SocioPath, farside22, Anon
xvart - 2 - Iecerint, Kmd4390
Iecerint - 2 - Cyberbob, Starbuck
Jack - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
Kmd4390 - 1 - curiouskarmadog
Budja - 1 - xvart
curiousjarmadog - 1 - Budja

Not Voting (2): SensFan, ooba

With 18 players alive it'll take 10 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

I have seen a governer that could do it every day (cancel lynches).

Hey, KMD, you want people to believe that powers can be exchanged or given to another (like you claim FFFF's can)....can this one or was it just for FFFF.

Please no one hammer till KMD answers this.

[farside22]

unvote:

I need to think

[Iecerint]

Wiki indicates that Beren and Luthien talk to Mandos, so I think it's a plausible role in that sense. Are there any other in-universe characters that might share Mandos's power over the HoM? That's the only way I could see it as some kind of fakeclaim.

[Papa Zito]

Hey all, I'll reread this and make a post tonight.

Warning ahead of time: Things at work just got super heavy so my participation will be sporadic for the next week(ish)

[Jack]

So SPS is like a 2-shot scum governor?

[SpyreX]

Where did you get 2-shot from?

ACTUALLY, considering how realistically the revive mechanic could make it really hard for scum to win I'm not swayed by the too powerful for scum argument one bit.

[Jack]

Basically there's almost no way that the mod didn't give the scum some power over the revive/destroy votes in this setup. Governor is guaranteed to be a scum role.

[Jack]

That was not an answer to spyreX btw. With the 2-shot bit I was thinking that it was silly to think that his role was "too powerful for scum" when we only had his word for it that it was unlimited. But I don't think the too powerful bit holds even if it is unlimited.

[SpyreX]

Yea. I'm still pushing for this lynch.

[SpyreX]

Allow me to expand a bit more:

The revive/restore mechanics require some way for scum to manipulate it or, especially with less players, the same town player will be there over and over again.

There is, realistically, three ways for this to work: a single scumgroup with more than one method to kill (forcing a dilemma on who to raise), a method to keep the restorations from working or a method to eliminate people in the hall (mandos-vig).

We've just seen the middle - done by PM even so there isn't even a way to KNOW how its going to happen if it were to go that way.

[Iecerint]

That's a good point, but why wouldn't he have already blocked (for example) farside's revival? I guess they could be Sons of Feanor together (SPS mentioned them offhand earlier almost out of nowhere IIRC, which could possibly indicate inside knowledge), but I don't know why SoF would control that mechanic flavor-wise, and that's positing a lot of unknowns.

I guess the flavor could be a red herring, but ye know. That wouldn't be very satisfying.

[SpyreX]

Its value increases dramatically as the game progresses and holding it makes it a factor that can't be accounted for.

If we get a claimed for reallies PR dying I bet they wouldn't have been revived.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Basically there's almost no way that the mod didn't give the scum some power over the revive/destroy votes in this setup. Governor is guaranteed to be a scum role.

Name me a scum character who would hold such a power. Sauron? Melkor? Carcharoth? Curufin?

ACTUALLY, considering how realistically the revive mechanic could make it really hard for scum to win I'm not swayed by the too powerful for scum argument one bit.

So essentially you think the Mod put in a mechanism and then gave scum a power to mostly nullify the mechanism? On top of that, the Mod also gave that power to one person to make the game extra swingy.

We had 4 kills last Night, SpyreX, reviving is not that spectacular in the face of that many kills. And there's a delayed reveal to compensate.

Besides, if I were scum, I'd have just used my powers for evil. Blocking 2 revives would be more useful than a credible fake claim. (Or just prevent the reveals to cause apathy.)

I guess they could be Sons of Feanor together (SPS mentioned them offhand earlier almost out of nowhere IIRC, which could possibly indicate inside knowledge)

I've read the Silmarillion and the Feanor-storyline is a big part of it. Being familiar with the flavour is not a scum tell.

Its value increases dramatically as the game progresses and holding it makes it a factor that can't be accounted for.

I already got suspicion on me Day 1, so why would I risk waiting as scum?

[Míriel Therindë]

Just warning y'all that deadline is 8:27 pm EASTERN TIME TONIGHT.

I announced this yesterday (sorry for not having remembered to note it for you earlier; I'll be more careful with that in the future) but in case you haven't yet realized. You have about . . . a little less than SIX HOURS until deadline hits.

[Iecerint]

I'm saying that your failure to stop the farside revival would make sense if you were Elfscum together. We know that farside is an elf. Your knowledge of the SoF is just a bonus. I've never read the Silmarillion, but I can take your word for it that they figure prominently in the story.

Preview edit: I'll be back before deadline to prevent NL, I guess. I totally didn't notice deadline.

[Jack]

Right, we need 3 more votes on SPS then.

[farside22]

I'm saying that your failure to stop the farside revival would make sense if you were Elfscum together. We know that farside is an elf. Your knowledge of the SoF is just a bonus.

Fos: Iecerint

I need to think about a few things but I can tell I'm not going to have time to get everything out before deadline.
Can the ability that SPS be scum action. I could see it, but I feel more and more it's a safe claim. Why would there be a governor to stop players from reviving or destroying someone. The majority of the votes are town.
I do know of one role I saw where scum were allowed once per game to fake a pardon (this is in respect of lynching)
SPS: If you stopped someone from being destroyed would they sit in the Halls? Same question about stopping someone from being revived. Or are they dead for good if you stop it?

[Iecerint]

What about that quote do you object to, other than the fact that it implicates you iff SPS goes to HoM upon death?

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Why would there be a governor to stop players from reviving or destroying someone. The majority of the votes are town.

You could ask the same question about regular Governors. It makes a lot of thematic sense for Mandos to have this type of power though.

SPS: If you stopped someone from being destroyed would they sit in the Halls? Same question about stopping someone from being revived. Or are they dead for good if you stop it?

I merely prevent the Revive/Destroy action from taking place. They stay in the Halls.

[farside22]

What about that quote do you object to, other than the fact that it implicates you iff SPS goes to HoM upon death?

Your implying that scum would only stop a revival if the player was town if SPS is scum. That's a lot of WIFOM and comes off scummy in my view.

I don't think I'm going to get anyone to agree with me on CB, cobalt or CKD before the deadline but i will give it a shot.

vote: colbalt

come on people.

[Iecerint]

It's an unnecessary gambit to let NK'd town revive when you can stop it anonymously. Also, I thought you thought SPS was fakeclaiming (assuming safeclaim=fakeclaim)?

[Jack]

Iec, you're assuming that SPS's role works how he described it.

[Míriel Therindë]

Deadline is in almost exactly (exactly?) THREE HOURS. Remember, no majority at deadline means no Lynch (though Revive and Destroy will resolve before Night falls).

Vote Count 3 - 18: Lynch

Steam-Powered Shovel -

7

- Jack, SpyreX, MehPlusRawr, Cobalt, Papa Zito, SocioPath, Anon
xvart - 2 - Iecerint, Kmd4390
Iecerint - 2 - Cyberbob, Starbuck
Jack - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
Kmd4390 - 1 - curiouskarmadog
Budja - 1 - xvart
curiousjarmadog - 1 - Budja
Cobalt - 1 - farside22

Not Voting (2): SensFan, ooba

With 18 players alive it'll take 10 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

[Iecerint]

I was thinking that he wouldn't fakeclaim something confirmable. It's true that because of deadline ultimately being in 3 hours, that isn't as good a heuristic as usual (he'd last an extra day), but I doubt that was on his mind, if only because I'd forgotten about it.

I suppose there's always the chance of claiming roleblock to save him.