Pick Your Power III: A Brave New World

[Socrates]

I'll vote for whichever one of these has the most votes:

Fate
Paranadevil
Maybe Hoopla, maybe Sando (Need to think on these some more)

##vote:Fate

I'd also strongly consider blindly following Parama and Porkens wherever their suspicions take them.

Don't like posts 3 & 4, not sure how to evaluate them though. I think I'll just ignore it.

[Socrates]

First post.

[Socrates]

Also, What are people's thoughts on massclaim now that the game has actually begun? I still want to do it, but I can't for the life of me decide when the best time to do it is. Day 2?

[Socrates]

First post.

So I was fifth?

The second list, labeled draft in bold letters.

You did not like that? Fine, then we shall start at the top of the list and move downwards until we get to me.

Yea I didn't like it. The fact that you took the time to make three (one in the queue, 2 here) posts on the subject makes it feel like you are faking the frustration, but I hate reads like that because they always fail me.

[Socrates]

Soc, could you explain the pros and cons of the D1 vs. D2 vs. DLater massclaims to me?

In this game, even vanilla townies have role based information that can be useful in cornering the scum bags. The more players still in the game --> the harder it is for scum to co-ordinate fake claims. The earlier we do the massclaim, the harder it is for the scum to fake a claim and thus are more likely to claim truthfully. This also forces any power roles to have to publicly justify their use and prevent players from using it in an anti-town manner. Furthermore, there are some roles that scum are just flat-out more likely to take.

If the scum DO manage to fake claim, a few flips AFTER the fake claim should make it much easier to determine who was lieing and where.

The easiest objection to massclaim is usually that it outs our power roles, but the very nature of the game makes it easy for scum to find power (just aim at the top of the list) anyway, so that is mitigated some, and there are also some protective roles in the draft (weak doc and jailkeep off the top of my head). The point does admittedly hold some weight though.

The second point is that it renders some roles (doc, bomb), if not useless, much weaker. I can't think of a good way to counter this point, it merely comes down to the percieved power of those roles. Everyone loves the bomb, but I sometimes question how strong it truely is (it is HARD to draw the kill on purpose without tipping your hand. Look at Fate last game.).

Doing it tomorrow gives us a whole night of role interactions that would potentially provide more hurdles for the scum during the massclaim (maybe more than a few townies) which is why I am considering waiting until then.

Thoughts?

[Socrates]

##unvote,
##vote:prana

keeping to my word.

[Socrates]

FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS
I can confirm that scum took the Janitor role.
Why? I tried to take it and got 'nilla'd!
If a townie took the janitor role, I would like you to claim now plz.

^^^
You see, this is why I said I was willing to blindly follow Parama on a vote. Pure townie.

The Janitor doesn't really need to claim if they are town, though. As long as they don't use their ability, it doesn't really matter, and I want as few people claimed before we do a mass claim (if we do one) as possible.

Socrates, is your theory that if sando invited me into the gmae, and he knew there was one spot left, if he were scum he'd know what alignment that spot was? I was thinking about your cryptic comments and I don't THINK he'd be more likely to want me in a game where he was scum if I was sure to be town. So that's leading me to good places on sando.

That was one of the reasons. The other I was kicking around in my head is that the longer the game went without starting, the more time the town had to get people to roll the dice, so a scumbag might have decided to go and recruit someone so as to cut that off at the pass.

Of course I then noticed that Spyrex had made a post where he had requested someone go find someone to fill up the last slot and that makes it more likely that a townie went and did it. :/

I get good feelings from you about this, though.

[Socrates]

Massclaim was my idea and I was saying day 2 from the very beginning, so ya.

Serial: If the scum team truthfully claims their role, then fuck ya mission successful. They lose all control over how they use their roles and the town can direct them at our leisure. (Side note, I have a low opinion of people who have a problem with directing power roles.) At the very least, they have to justify their use and can't get away with using it in an anti-town fashion.

In my opinion, PYPII was primarily won through the scum effectively using their power roles and fakeclaiming successfully, and I don't want the scum to have another game like that one.

To be honest, since the idea of massclaim has been sitting around in some form even before the draft, the scum have definitely at least spent a portion of their time preparing for it and I expect the potential upside of a massclaim to be minimized. I am open to being talked out of it.

Hoopla has been officially upgraded to tier 1 scummyness. I will now vote whichever one of Prana, Fate, or Hoopla has the most votes. Need to check the vote count.

I don't have much faith in the Manho wagon.

[Socrates]

Meh. I haven't really been paying attention to Pranadevil since I wrote him off as scum a while ago.

##unvote,
##vote:Fate

I was more confident in this read anyway.

Also, CMAR is another acceptable lynch.

[Socrates]

Nah.

[Socrates]

"Laces" what? More Aussie lingo?

Anyway what I'm saying is if we don't MC today I'll be against it every other day until MyLo/LyLo like PYPII.

I just thought Socrates had an interesting-
WAIT.

Socrates said Nah?

WHAT DA HELL??? IT WAS YOUR PLAN!?

^^^ Sooooo fake.

Besides, I've been saying day 2 since this game started, and I reserve the right to change my mind on massclaim in general if someone gives me a convincing argument. It's called actually listening of other people instead of taking a rhetorical stance like you are.

In other news, I see hoopla has more votes than Fate.

*hops*

unvote, vote:Hoopla

[Socrates]

##unvote
##vote:Hoopla

[Socrates]

I think, out of the principle Massclaim pushers, Manho is the one I like for town best. Someone remind me why there is a wagon on him?

[Socrates]

I want more content from sorasgood.

I am thinking we're lynching a townie. But to be sure, I want to hear more thoughts from him.

^^^ This.

[Socrates]

So, question for all interested parties:

Say Soras is scum right now. What do you think his scum buddies are saying in the scum quicktopic right now? (Remember, this is deepsouth, scum can daytalk.)

[Socrates]

You should join the Hoopla wagon. Its got none of that.

[Socrates]

## unvote
## vote: manho

Boo.

[Socrates]

So, what do people think of CMAR? I'm having trouble evaluating him. (LOOK! He just made an appeal to majority, Wow)

[Socrates]

*gasp* I did? Show me great philosopher.

I am paying attention to you defending sorasgoof, a scumspect of many.

This is an appeal to majority (Well kinda, more like an extended appeal to majority. Perhaps it would fit better under Guilt By Association?).

It doesn't really matter though, you made a post that contained a town tell while I was making that post.

[Socrates]

God damn I wish I was a dayvig.

This game needs a flip and find some focus.

Just so people don't forget: FATE IS SCUM!

When is deadline?

[Socrates]

@Manho: The only type of role-related infor that could indicate Soras is scum to Fate is if he's his scumbuddy.

Then why are you voting Soras and not Fate?

[Socrates]

@Manho: The only type of role-related infor that could indicate Soras is scum to Fate is if he's his scumbuddy.

Then why are you voting Soras and not Fate?

because if they're scumbuddies we might as well lynch the one at the top of the draft <<
Alternatively, there is something that I'm not getting that make Fate have info (unlikely)
third option is he just wants us all the STHU and lynch Soras so stuff can develop.

I think option 3 is the likelier one and am not against it.

Wait, so you think Fate - as

town

- is lying about role related info just to get someone lynched he has no business trying to get lynched ('cause, you know, without said role related info there's no real reason to think he is scum) AND you are fine with this?

Are you Fate's scumbuddy?

[Socrates]

Here's the plan: Fate goes "I GOTZ ROLE INFO LYNCH PLOX." Soras flips town. Fate goes "OH GEE I MESSED UP." Town goes "Oh you rascal, you, Fate! You're too crazy to actually be scum!" and muss his hair up "Why don't you go sit in the corner while the grown ups find the real scum!"

Seriously. That's what he has been doing this entire game.

And it has been working apparently. =_=

[Socrates]

Your parser is reading votes that have been quoted.

I have not voted Manho, nor do I plan to, but I DID quote Parama's post where HE did.

[Socrates]

Soo... I had a moment of quiet contemplation and I'm officially flip-flopping on Manho.

Even though I didn't put it there, I guess my vote knows where it wants to be. >.> <.<

I would be fine with any of these lynches:

Hoopla
Fate
Manho
Pomegrante

But Pom is only because DGB says she is scum, so.

[Socrates]

I am disproven.

##unvote
##vote: Fate

[Socrates]

*sigh*

I better have been wrong about Soras, but I won't be. This wagon smelled of scum from vote 1.

[Socrates]

##vote: Hoopla

I just noticed that DGB should not have been on the Sora's wagon. Heh.

[Socrates]

I am willing to vote Manho. I might be willing to vote Sando.

[Socrates]

##unvote
##vote:Porkens

[Socrates]

Meh. My reads are usually shit. I figured that was a given.

[Socrates]

Porkens was on the Soras wagon. I think thats all that needs to be said about scum bussing.

[Socrates]

Obviously I shouldn't be trusted to make my own decisions with the track record I have had so far this game.

Who should I vote?

[Socrates]

I think so. He never even considered the possibility of a Sorastown and was setting you up to be Sora's scumbuddy from his first post. I'd be willing to vote there.

[Socrates]

##vote:Dramonic

[Socrates]

The two scum we have caught did not roll the dice. It is extremely likely that at least 1 of the scum left and possibly 2 of them did do so (and didn't lie about it). Most players rolled 9's.

I guess what I am saying is that I will eat my hat if all 4 9's are town.

And using the neighborhood defense for 9 is pretty dumb with that in mind.

[Socrates]

What reason do we need the Janitor to claim? He hasn't been using his ability, so it doesn't really matter.

[Socrates]

Ok. I'm the janitor.

Incedentally, where is the scum counterwagon to save Dram if he is scum? Has the scum team just given up already?

I guess Zo tried to be one, but that was undermined before it even began?

[Socrates]

Meh, I expect my claim to kill me eventually. I was hoping to just get myself nightkilled and avoid this whole problem, but my poor play put an end to that.

Also, it would be really, really easy for me to fakeclaim, so.

[Socrates]

Why am I voting dramonic again?

[Socrates]

##vote:Hoopla

[Socrates]

Well, I've thought Hoopla was scum since the pre-game due to a meta-tell, but I don't want to say what that is specifically, so.

As far as her actual play, It's hard to articulate. Do you remember multiple people saying something like "I don't understand Hoopla's play, she must be town."? And how she had mostly been trading off of emotion in her early play? ("I'm sick of being the devil's avacado." was the quote, I believe.) Yea, thats something we have talked about in the past. It's really quite effective scum play if people aren't looking out for it.

Your case against her is really good too and her response was subpar, if you need something more traditional.

[Socrates]

Hoopla, you keep saying that their picks were stupid, so I am curious. What

would

you have picked as scum with those spots?

[Socrates]

Man, this current incarnation of the game is heavily town leaning. :/

I don't agree with Hoopla's suggested loadout, BTW. But that's something for the postgame.

[Socrates]

I guess it really isn't something for post game. I'll keep it simple:

If the scum team doesn't take at least 1 killing role, it is almost impossible for them to win the game.

I think you would realize this.

[Socrates]

no it isn't. if they have protown roles, vigs won't shoot there in a massclaim. or ever manipulation roles like jailkeeper, redirector and the protective roles can work too. the game doesn't revolve around the vigs for scum, especially if the vigs miss once or twice. they could become lynch targets.

1) "Role does not correspond to alignment" is something that has been repeated over and over and over again throughout all three of these games. Claiming a pro-town role would not save a scumbag's life, nor should it.

2) No townie outside of the top 5 would bother to go for the vig role and since the scum team made up the majority of the top 5, there probably wouldn't be any vigs at all if the scum team doesn't take them.

3) Here's what the setup would have looked like if the scum team followed your strategy:

Scum:
Goon x4
Jailkeeper

Town:
Gunsmith
Watcher
Tracker
Pro-town redirector
2 man vanilla mason group
Vanilla town x11

(Mod note: Scum team has the following fakeclaims: Cop, doc, bomb)
(Mod note: town knows that role does not correspond to alignment)

Now, I don't know anything about setup balance, but that looks a tad town balanced to me. Town have 6 mislynches, 4 information roles, and a mason group. Scum have a jailkeeper and good fakeclaims in a game where fakeclaims shouldn't mean anything. So scum have a jailkeeper.

[Socrates]

Can I get worse at mafia? I submit that I cannot.

[Socrates]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 6

Faraday

- 2 -

Parama

,

mb53

- (L-4)

mb53

- 1 -

Fate

- (L-5)

Players not voting - 7 - 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, DrippingGoofball, Faraday, PranaDevil, Socrates, Zang

Just tell me who to vote and when.

[Socrates]

@SOCRATES: Vote mb53, seriously. Are you gonna listen to Parama over me? Even if Far is scum give some love for your old buddy.

@SOCRATES: Vote mb53, seriously. Are you gonna listen to Parama over me? Even if Far is scum give some love for your old buddy.

Ah c'mon, we're lynching scum. mb53 is next in line.

Oh god I'm being pulled in multiple directions!

Ok, heres what I'll do. I'll decide which one I think is scum and then vote for the

other

one... but that means I'll think

that

one is scum and I should vote for the first one! Oh god it's recursive!

##vote:mb

[Socrates]

we should wait around so cmar can confirm he's jailkeeper and list w/e actions he happens to have sent in (betting not that many but ehhhh) + make sure he uses his fucking role tonight.

I thought CMAR claimed attempted gunsmith?

[Socrates]

He did.

Oh, well then Mb can't be scum becsause either Faraday or someone above Faraday is lieing.

##unvote
##vote:faraday

[Socrates]

Why didn't the scum Jailkeep jail Pom on the nights they didn't kill her?

[Socrates]

Oh wait, 12key hasn't claimed yet.

I bet he is scum though.

##unvote
##vote:12keyblade

[Socrates]

##vote:12keyblade

Yea, he's scum. I was right for once!