Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:21 am

Post by VP Baltar »

"These holes are
not rust
,"
the pompous little factory rep assured me.
"What you see here is priceless chemical
development
that was applied to this vehicle only after fifty-five years of careful research at our secret Color Lab in the Milanese Alps....So you
must
be patient,"
he warned.
"This process takes
time
. It involves the slow liberation of Astro-Bacteria, which is frequently
lethal
to laymen. And which did, in fact, end the life of the tragic genius who first invented it, a man named Squane from Austria."



Votecount 2-1
:

Jahudo ~ L-4 (Jack, Zachrulez)

hohum ~ L-4 (Vi, xRECKONERx)
Locke Lamora ~ L-5 (ekiM)

Not Voting: hohum, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Jahudo, Sotty7, Locke Lamora, Percy

With
11
alive, it takes
6
to lynch. Deadline is April 17 at roughly 12 p.m. (GMT-4).
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:03 am

Post by Vi »

just saying

ortolan's vote on hohum was literally provoked by hohum

sort of like scien did in this game

i would not be surprised if that was a bout of unnecessary distancing
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:39 am

Post by Jahudo »

Vi wrote:so where are either of our top suspects anyway

(hohum, Jah00do)
You know, just lurking in my hidey-hole. :wink:

But actually I've also been interested in ekiM's suspect list from yesterday.

--------------------------
Stuff about ekiM here:
--------------------------

He starts out grouping hohum, ortolan and DDD in a way that suggests he is equally suspicious of them:
ekiM wrote:hohum, ortolan, DDD. These guys trouble me. <snip>
I will support a hohum or DDD lynch today.
But his vote switches to DDD:
ekiM wrote:unvote; Vote: DDD
Near deadline he explains why hohum is his top suspect. It looks more like its because hohum is most viable, instead of most likely to flip scum:
ekiM wrote:I would prefer one of hohum, DDD, ortolan. Of those, hohum is the most viable.
But ekiM's attitude changes when he says that hohum is a better bet for scum, which makes ortolan a worse bet.
ekiM wrote:No reason ort can't be scum, but it's less likely to be with hohum when he named his two lynch preferences for today as Jack/flint and hohum. I'm pretty sold on hohum being scum.
He even suspects people against the hohum case, which seems like an indirect way to derail the ortolan wagon at this point in the game:
ekiM wrote:I could easily see two of those being scumbuddies trying to steer away. I'm gung-ho for a hohum lynch now.
So I don't see how he went from seemingly having equal reads on ortolan and hohum, to saying he'd prefer hohum for being viable, to saying he'd prefer hohum for being most scummy.

@ekiM: can you show where hohum did something to make him your number 1 suspect, and when you made that switch of opinion?
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:47 pm

Post by Percy »

Hello everyone, I've had a busy Easter, but I'm catching up today. Expect me to drop my truth bombs in a few hours.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:45 pm

Post by Percy »

Reading through ortolan's play, I find it less likely that the flinter/Jack slot is scum. I'm not sold on it xRx or hohum.

Elaboration-ortolan jumped on the xRx wagon late, so possibility of bussing is hard to discount; after I called him on his flinter vote, he said:
ortolan 182 wrote:I didn't see this question first time round. I wasn't really conscious of the fact I was voting xReckonerx when I made that post, it was just I guess that I strongly reacted against what I saw as flinter's bullying/pushing a mislynch on kyle which I know scum is likely to do. I will say more recently that I explicitly feel reckoner is not as likely to be scum as I first thought...
After such a weak excuse and jumping onto flinter, xRx looks more scummy (not less), whilst flinter/Jack looks slightly more town.
-The vote on hohum looks a little contrived.
ort: "hohum I think you're legitimately scummy"
hohum: "oh yeah I dare you to vote me"
ort: "omgscum vote"
and I find this a complete nulltell on hohum.
-And then there's the weirdness from hohum asking me to accuse ortolan of selective reading. It makes a lot of sense as a bussing move, so again completely null.
-Later he votes kyle for weak reasons, and votes Jack when he gets called on it. Again, less likely flinter/Jack scum.


I also think that Vi's push against ortolan makes her more likely town.

I ISO'd Jahudo, and I was stunned to find I actually have a very, very strong town read on him. I really did try to see the scum in him, because he didn't like my hohum case and it would all make some sort of glorious Percy-was-right-all-along sense if he and hohum were scum. I even started writing something to that effect, but instead I re-read. I discovered that his reads feel natural and (mostly) well-reasoned, and the changes in his opinion feel genuine.

I also like his latest post a lot, and I'll hold back my read for ekiM until after he answers Jahudo's questions.

As for Locke, I've already mentioned his scummy attack on the hohum wagon, but now I realise it was when one of the big wagons was on scum, and the other (on Jack) was L-2. Mix in his lack of enthusiasm for the ortolan wagon and my read is fairly scummy.
FoS: Locke Lamora
.

So: Jack, Jahudo, Vi are town, probably DDD as well but a lack of posting/content today will erode that read.

xRx is still scummy for yesterday, but I'm going to wait for more from him before trying to solidify my read.

hohum is still my number one.
Vote: hohum
.

Two players I haven't looked at are Sotty7 and zach. They're next on my ISO list.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:58 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

Yes, sir. *salutes* ~ The mod

~~~

Vote: Sotty


Ortolan quotes her once in a response and that's it. Whenever he's mentioned by Sotty early it was almost invariably within the context of hohum and Percy where she's extremely indecisive in regards to him, but late in the day he pops up on her willing to wagon list and it's not really clear why until her vote post. I also have issue with her tone which just seems very off to me.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Mod: really sorry but I'm going to have no home internet access at all in the next three weeks, so I'll basically only be online once or twice a week if I manage to get to an internet cafe. As a result, I think replacing me would be best. If finding a replacement is a real problem then I'll do my best to post what I can at those times but obviously I'm not going to be able to do a great deal.


Not a problem. Searching for a replacement now. ~The mod
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:48 am

Post by Vi »

Debonair Danny DiPietro 555 wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.
What gives you the impression that the ten-minute Night was accidental?
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:55 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Vi wrote:
Debonair Danny DiPietro 555 wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.
What gives you the impression that the ten-minute Night was accidental?
That's a joke, son.

It was quite obviously not accidental, that doesn't mean I couldn't whine at Baltar for it.
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:41 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Unvote:
I think I may have initially given Jack a bit too much town cred for that scum lynch, on 2nd look, his reasoning doesn't look great.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

Yes, sir. *salutes* ~ The mod

~~~

Vote: Sotty


Ortolan quotes her once in a response and that's it. Whenever he's mentioned by Sotty early it was almost invariably within the context of hohum and Percy where she's extremely indecisive in regards to him, but late in the day he pops up on her willing to wagon list and it's not really clear why until her vote post. I also have issue with her tone which just seems very off to me.
Your case on things Sotty has actually done is pretty vague here. As far as the whole Ortoscum ignored her point, that point can be made pretty equally for people like Jack, yourself, and me. I don't recall him going to much effort to respond to or talk about any of us offhand either.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:43 am

Post by Zachrulez »

EBWOP: Butchered quotes.

Unvote:
I think I may have initially given Jack a bit too much town cred for that scum lynch, on 2nd look, his reasoning doesn't look great.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

Yes, sir. *salutes* ~ The mod
~~~

Vote: Sotty

Ortolan quotes her once in a response and that's it. Whenever he's mentioned by Sotty early it was almost invariably within the context of hohum and Percy where she's extremely indecisive in regards to him, but late in the day he pops up on her willing to wagon list and it's not really clear why until her vote post. I also have issue with her tone which just seems very off to me.
Your case on things Sotty has actually done is pretty vague here. As far as the whole Ortoscum ignored her point, that point can be made pretty equally for people like Jack, yourself, and me. I don't recall him going to much effort to respond to or talk about any of us offhand either.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:45 am

Post by Zachrulez »

EBWOP yet again: Christ...

Unvote:
I think I may have initially given Jack a bit too much town cred for that scum lynch, on 2nd look, his reasoning doesn't look great.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

Yes, sir. *salutes* ~ The mod


Vote: Sotty
Ortolan quotes her once in a response and that's it. Whenever he's mentioned by Sotty early it was almost invariably within the context of hohum and Percy where she's extremely indecisive in regards to him, but late in the day he pops up on her willing to wagon list and it's not really clear why until her vote post. I also have issue with her tone which just seems very off to me.
Your case on things Sotty has actually done is pretty vague here. As far as the whole Ortoscum ignored her point, that point can be made pretty equally for people like Jack, yourself, and me. I don't recall him going to much effort to respond to or talk about any of us offhand either.
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:46 am

Post by Zachrulez »

On an unrelated note, I hate quote trees... a lot.
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:05 am

Post by ekiM »

This is quite a long post. It's a responses to Jaudo's 552. I've gone back and reconstructed my thought process yesterday post-reassessment.



First, I think you mis-state slightly what I was thinking in your first two quotes:

335 I drop xRx/kyle and name hohum, DDD, ortolan as my suspicions, hohum/DDD ahead of ortolan. At this point Jack 297 had not liked ortolan's reaction to kyle's replacement, and Vi 316 had raised some points. Not much else suspicion of ortolan had been expressed. There were less than two days until deadline. xRx, Jack, and sotty were tied on 3 votes. hohum had 2 votes.

At this point I strongly wanted a lynch on someone other than xRx/flinter/kyle [replacements]. Deadline was close. I was ambivalent between hohum and DDD. 336 I put the DDD vote out there to see if there was any interest, otherwise I was planning on pushing hohum. If I recall, I was less sure of ortolan's scumminess, having trouble reading him, and thought the deadline was too close anyway. I see why not pushing him as a lynch candidate looks odd in light of the flip, but I don't see why I would've made this move if I were scum and thus especially aware of my interactions with ortolan. I would've either ignored ortolan altogether and pushed one of the existing wagons or listed him equally with my other suspicions.



As for the attitude change, from "hohum is scummy and a viable lynch" to "hohum is scummiest", this happened when I tried to explain the hohum case in detail and found it to be even stronger than I had thought. Moreover, people were disagreeing with it in strange ways that made me suspicious.



In 351 I sum up the hohum case for the first time. This soldified it for me, but I still hadn't noticed the real contradiction of hohum ignoring flinter. I noticed sotty and others had been misrepresenting the case.

365 about a day before deadline I said I would lynch any one of hohum, DDD, ortolan and moved my vote to hohum, as he was the one with most votes. I think at this point I hadn't decided that hohum was scummiest.

381/384 I started thinking about possible scumteams with hohum. I doubted Locke and Sotty's reactions to the hohum case. "I read him as town" with no elaboration was suspect. Sotty had been misrepping the hohum case. I noticed the zero interaction with DDD, another suspect. These strange interactions looked like a plausible scum team to me

I also noticed ortolan listing hohum as one of his two desired lynches. This could've been distancing, but as a first approximation I didn't consider that so likely, hence my answer to Vi.

Now, you say that my suspicion of anti-hohum-case people could be an indirect way to detail the ortolan wagon. Two points of response: first, there was one person on the ortolan wagon at that point, with a day until deadline. If I was ortolan's scum buddy I don't think it'd be worrying me that much. Secondly, it's so "indirect" that you could impute that motive to anyone in favor of any other wagon at that point. Not really seeing the shadiness. Can I ask if you find Locke chainsawing Vi for pushing ortolan, and explicitly denouncing the possibility of the ortolan wagon happening in time more or less suspect?

In 385 Locke asks a question about the hohum wagon, and I respond in 387. You didn't quote this post, but this is where I first fully recognize the contradiction in hohum voting for xRx but not mentioning flinter, and decided he was actually the scummiest, as well as the best scummy wagon. 392 of Jaudo's I found another baffling defence of hohum, ignoring all the best points against him. In 397, which you also don't mention, I respond to 392 and Sotty's 359 about hohum. By this point, clarifying the hohum case has convinced me that it's strong. And I continue to be dubious of the way people are responding to the case.

In your last quote, 400, I'm convinced the hohum case is solid, thinking out loud about possible scum partners for hohum, and trying to drum up support for a hohum lynch. The competing wagons at this point were Jack and xRx, and I definitely didn't want those to prevail. Note that all of this is before ortolan requested replacement, and thus before the deadline extension. After the deadline extension, I was convinced hohum was a good lynch, spent some time building the case. Although I had trouble interpreting the meltdown, I was never opposed to the ortolan wagon. I thought the hohum wagon was better so I spent time pushing that. I was also loathe to vote for ortolan's replacement before he got a chance to speak, not that he ever did of course.



Short answer to your question "where hohum did something to make him your number 1 suspect" is: he strongly voted xRx for acting a bit like BC, then ignored flinter acting much more like BC. Answer to "when you made that switch of opinion" is between posts 384 and 397.
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:34 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

DDD's "case" on Sotty is meh, but Sotty's lack of involvement with ortolan is actually a really telling tell... I've seen it happen a lot, and I know when I'm scum, I either bus the hell out of my partners or try to ignore them for the most part.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:40 am

Post by hohum »

Vote Percy
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:43 am

Post by Jack »

unvote, vote:hohum


Fine, be that way...
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:07 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Zachrulez wrote:
Unvote:
I think I may have initially given Jack a bit too much town cred for that scum lynch, on 2nd look, his reasoning doesn't look great.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:To VP Baltar, a ten minute night does not give people the amount of time they need to kill Reckoner. Please remedy this in the future, plz k thx.

Yes, sir. *salutes* ~ The mod

~~~

Vote: Sotty


Ortolan quotes her once in a response and that's it. Whenever he's mentioned by Sotty early it was almost invariably within the context of hohum and Percy where she's extremely indecisive in regards to him, but late in the day he pops up on her willing to wagon list and it's not really clear why until her vote post. I also have issue with her tone which just seems very off to me.
Your case on things Sotty has actually done is pretty vague here. As far as the whole Ortoscum ignored her point, that point can be made pretty equally for people like Jack, yourself, and me. I don't recall him going to much effort to respond to or talk about any of us offhand either.
That point can't be made for Jack at all since ort voted for both flinter and Jack. Obviously I know I'm town and from an outside perspective I should be viewed in a seperate category from both you and Sotty as I was basically the one who turned the ort wagon from a pet cause of Vi into something viable while you two broke late onto the wagon in common bussing position. So I did consider both of you for the position of ortolan's scum partner who never interacted with him. In the end I think you're more likely to be town and Sotty more likely to be scum based on your early voting behavior and the weird vibes I get from Sotty's tone.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:56 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Just catching up on the last few posts before I start my ISOs.
Percy Post 554 wrote:
ortolan 182 wrote:I didn't see this question first time round. I wasn't really conscious of the fact I was voting xReckonerx when I made that post, it was just I guess that I strongly reacted against what I saw as flinter's bullying/pushing a mislynch on kyle which I know scum is likely to do. I will say more recently that I explicitly feel reckoner is not as likely to be scum as I first thought...
After such a weak excuse and jumping onto flinter, xRx looks more scummy (not less), whilst flinter/Jack looks slightly more town.
Why does Jack look more town from this move?
xRECKONERx Post 564 wrote:DDD's "case" on Sotty is meh, but Sotty's lack of involvement with ortolan is actually a really telling tell... I've seen it happen a lot, and I know when I'm scum, I either bus the hell out of my partners or try to ignore them for the most part.
Well that's you. What do you think of Ort not talking about DD, Zach and Jack on top of that?

I can't really defend against weird vibes from my tone Triple D. I don't really see why scum ignoring me is such a big tell but when the other people are brought up it means nothing. I'm not buying your explanation either, it all seems pretty contrived for you to keep your vote on me. I also don't think you should be taking the credit for the Ort wagon, you were pushing it near the deadline and that's about it.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:35 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sotty7 wrote:I can't really defend against weird vibes from my tone Triple D.
(1)
I don't really see why scum ignoring me is such a big tell
(2)
but when the other people are brought up it means nothing. I'm not buying your explanation either, it all seems pretty contrived for you to keep your vote on me.
(3)
I also don't think you should be taking the credit for the Ort wagon, you were pushing it near the deadline and that's about it.
(1) For serious? I am not wasting my time explaining to an experienced player why scum ignoring players is often a tip-off. It's obviously not a tell where this happens and it automatically means scum but given normal scum behavior it's a very good starting point.

(2) Well I brought up why the argument doesn't even apply to flinter/Jack despite what you and Zach have both tried to claim. The other three people are you, me, and Zach. I shouldn't have to point out that I have no interest in facilitating my own lynch. Then with a player pool of two people I looked at the rest of your play and came to the conclusion that you were more likely of the pair to be scum.

(3) My vote and words turned an ortolan lynch from nothing more than a hobby horse of Vi's into a full blown wagon and lynch. Read the actual game thread instead of a series of ISOs and it'll be patently obvious. The ortolan wagon had been sitting there for a little while with little momentum and was really just another in Mike's list of hypotheticals. My vote shifts the wagon from a sideshow to a distinct possibility and my agitation made it clear it was more viable than any other. Jahudo immediatly follows my vote with an attempt at the third vote; Jack votes after I again rally for an ort lynch and in my sarcastic way I pulled apart the viability of lynches of Locke, Jack, and myself to redirect people to the now vibrant ortolan wagon. Does an ortolan lynch happen without Vi's arguments? No. Does an ortolan lynch happen without my vote and agitation? Maybe, but in this reality of this game they were crucial and to pretend otherwise is a misrepresentation of this game's history.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:38 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Locke


Still
think his early questioning of Zach was awful. The open ended question he threw his way just looked like he was setting Zach up to pounce on him but he pulled out on that when no one else bit (and after Reck got heat for his poor case.) I vote him for this and he just reasons a OMGUS vote on me that is poorly reasoned. ekiM also agreed with my thought process at the time and it just gets noted without any real pressure, ever. Weak.

At this point my attention has turned to flinter and Locke posts a V/LA over the weekend. When he comes back suddenly I'm not scummy enough for a vote any more, but still scummy enough for suspicion to be cast on me.
Locke Lamora Post 364 wrote:Right, my main thoughts and responses to people:

Jahudo: I usually unvote when I vote for someone else. I rarely do it by itself. I hadn't unvoted ekiM because I wasn't yet inclined to vote for someone else.

Sotty: I voted for you because it felt like you were misrepping me and basing your whole case on what you perceived to be the implications of my posts, not the posts themselves.

Reckoner is bothering me now. His early bad vote on Zach looked more like town-Reck to me but his 'lynch me' attitude does not match to what I know of him from Lost Mafia. He seemed committed to that game throughout D1 even when he was frustrated at being wagoned. How much of this is down to him not having much time to post is hard to tell but I find the AtEish tone very scummy.

Unvote; Vote: Reckoner


Zach: you suggested that Sotty is playing to her scum meta by casting doubt on her suspicions of you, then you didn't follow it up at all. Does this mean you don't really think Sotty is scummy for doing so?
To me it looks like he has more of a reason to stay on me over voting for Reck. The Reck wagon had more steam than mine so this is the classic making himself open to either. He also asks Zach a question about my scum meta that he doesn't follow up on which looks pretty bad. Makes me believe it wasn't even a genuine point in his own mind.

He only mentions Ort after I ask him a direct question about him.
Locke Lamora Post 189 wrote:As for Ortolan, I think he's made some easy votes on Reckoner and Flinter and hasn't offered much else.
And then only to speak out against his wagon:
Locke Lamora Post 368 wrote:Vi, although that lynch would never happen at this stage, is increasingly pinging my scumdar; I particularly don't like his recent vote on ortolan which is in clear contrast to his call for bigger wagons and I feel it's too close to deadline for a major change of direction. I'm also dubious of him saying he's having a hard time getting reads; it doesn't seem to fit with the tone of his posts.
Locke Lamora Post 437 wrote:I also really don't see the ortolan case. I agree with his earlier point about Reckoner's style as town and I don't think he's been lurking a great deal either. His frustration reads as annoyed townie to me.
Locke Lamora Post 447 wrote:Vi: because that's exactly what I thought about Reckoner. When I played with town-Reck, he never expressed a desire to give up despite being wagoned to claiming on D1. His 'lynch me' post was a clear departure from that and I immediately thought exactly what ortolan did.
He seemed to be doing a lot of work to discredit any kind of push Ort's way despite earlier in the day saying he hadn't done much. Locke also didn't really comment on much outside of myself or Reck, there really isn't a whole lot of content in posts when you look though them. It's like he posts just enough to get by.

Vote: Locke


flinter


There is little to like about her early play. She defends Reck early on when there is absolutely no reason to defend him. Also getting direct answers to questions from her was like pulling teeth. She makes a some what reasonable case on Kyle in the early stages only to throw it out and jump on Zach when he doesn't agree with her reasoning. It's a pretty weak reason to switch targets like that as I have said repeatedly. Then there is the old flip flop of not finding Zach scummy for his vote hopping and then suddenly it is. She latches on to personal attacks that aren't there, makes false accusations of ad hom and buddies up to Hohum.

All in all I am still finding her extremely scummy.

Jack is a different story and is probably a big reason why I hate replacements. It's a little rocky at the start when he says he doesn't like me and I end up in his townie pile. His explanation around that is believable enough though so I don't think that is much of a point. I don't know how Locke ends up in his townie pile at that point though.
Jack Post 273 wrote:I'm going to
Vote:hohum
though. For the "xReck says 'lynch me', hohum posts but doesn't comment on it, hohum posts a strong accusation of percy including 8 or so links to his past cases, hohum votes xReck for the post which he'd been ignoring and links to another game for support (except in that game BC claimed doc, and asked for replacement because "it's clear I'm not wanted here...good luck town" which is nothing like what xReck did but more like what flinter did (with the replacing) but hohum says his vote is
final
)" chain of events.
This is a strong point in the Hohum case, something I think Hohum still hasn't answered. (I don't agree with Vi's interpretation of events.)

Jack does give Vi some crap for moving her vote to Ort.
Jack Post 410 wrote:
Vi wrote:
Jack 408 wrote:And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".
Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm
-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not
helping
anyone and it's lending no
credence
to your dedication.-



:roll:
This could be legit frustration, but I think it is worth noting.

Basically the Jack/flinter slot is almost like night and day. I still find flinter really scummy and I'm not sure why I am one of the only ones. Jack's posting is mostly good. The pressure on Vi's Ort vote sticks out though, but after deadline extensions he does vote for Ort himself.

I'd like some reasoning as to why he is voting Hohum and why he voted Jahudo at the start of the day, also his opinions on the Locke player slot as well. I am still leaning scum on this player slot, but not as strong as I was at the start of the day.

Okay, I'm taking a break now to get something to eat. I will probably look at Jahudo and Percy next maybe Vi.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:45 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Breaking up my point to discredit it there triple D isn't cool. I never said that players ignoring others isn't a scum tell, I said that why is it just for me and not for these other players.

You basically admitted that the point applies to you as much as me, but you know your alignment. So why isn't it possible that it also happened to other "townies"? So far your case consist of something that also applies to you + weird vibes. Surely you have more at this point because this is weak.

I don't remember the history of the Ort lynch the same as you, but I will re-read that part of the game before fighting with you about it. I just remember Vi pushing it and then Ort becoming viable because of a deadline extension.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:48 am

Post by Jack »

I criticized Vi because at the time it was almost deadline and I felt she was dragging her heels on the hohum lynch which was the only viable good lynch.

Jahudo seemed scummiest to start and could be my main choice, but hohum turning up with just a vote is annoying.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:54 am

Post by Zachrulez »

He did basically admit that the Ortolan lynch might have happened without him,(Which is about how I feel about it.) while pointing out that his vote and push were critical to getting the lynch on Ortolan, which is pretty accurate.

I'm not moved by the cases of who Ortolan ignored, mainly because he seemed pretty disinterested with half of the players in the game at any given time, I tend to find this to be a pretty shoddy method of finding more scum after you've lynched one scum.

What I do find interesting is people who actively defend the now proven scum from pressure, as a scumtell that tends to actually be a lot stronger of a tell.

Ekim pointed out several instances of Locke pushing back against a Ortolan lynch actively on day 1, and those points were also touched on by Sotty, and personally I think that's a better direction to pursue at this point.

Vote: Locke Lamora
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:08 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Jack wrote:I criticized Vi because at the time it was almost deadline and I felt she was dragging her heels on the hohum lynch which was the only viable good lynch.

Jahudo seemed scummiest to start and could be my main choice, but hohum turning up with just a vote is annoying.
Annoying = Scummy? You think just slapping a vote on him with no questioning actually help matters?

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