Mini 941: (Almost) No Rules Mafia (Game Over)

[UncertainKitten]

Pah, I was late. Should have checked this game first. Since clearly my scum opposition has decided to take the initiative. I personally feel we both should be lynched, as has been my attitude since game start. You know, the town ill needs a savior like us thing. For the record I'm of course counterclaiming Town Macho Jack of all Trades.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah yes, I forget that rule - good thinking. I'm not sure what to think at the moment, although I'm probably siding with you at the moment. It seems like a more pro-town play, especially when you could have just offed UK without her alignment flipped.

Well, the problem with this is, were I nightkilled, it'd be OBVIOUS I was the town selector. Or at least pretty damned close to obvious.

[Hoopla]

Ah yes, I forget that rule - good thinking. I'm not sure what to think at the moment, although I'm probably siding with you at the moment. It seems like a more pro-town play, especially when you could have just offed UK without her alignment flipped.

Well, the problem with this is, were I nightkilled, it'd be OBVIOUS I was the town selector. Or at least pretty damned close to obvious.

If Bananas was scum, he could have stayed quiet, and killed you off. Even if that made you look town, it wouldn't matter too much, because nobody else has a clue who the other one would be. Why would scum throw away that opportunity to go into a 50/50 chance of being lynched?

[UncertainKitten]

He could have. But there's a chance he would have been found out by other roles in this game. Granted, he does come off as strongly town, and even WIFOM doesn't help much since NKing me would have been better. I can't really argue that he didn't act in a pro town manner. I can, argue, that he might not have thought of the strategy you propose. Which is what I'm stuck with, ne? However...I think I have a good counter to all this. Lemme check a couple things.

[UncertainKitten]

As I thought. Formatting might help a lot here.

Congratulations. You are town. Refer to your power list to see which powers you now have.

Zoraster

[quote="zoraster]
Both Selectors have chosen town before 48 hours is up. I will roll a 2 sided die in the game thread.

If the die is a 1 you are scum.
If the die is a 2 you are town.

Zoraster[/quote]

You are one of TWO Macho Neutral Selectors and Jack of All Trades. Things are about to get a little complicated so follow along, sweetheart. I’ll break it down bit by bit.

Selector: You may at any time, when there are 6 or more players alive, choose to pick to become either a Town member or a Mafia member. You may do this at any point during the day or night by PMing me with your choice. When you have selected a side, I will post the following message in game: “The selectors have made their choice!”

There’s just one hitch: if the other Macho Neutral Selector picks before you do, you will automatically be placed on the opposite team that that other Selector picked. If both Selectors PM me within 48 hours of Day 1’s start and both have picked the same side, I will flip a coin (via random.org) to pick whose pick actually went through. Thus, selections will not be made before 48 hours has elapsed in the game.

If you die before selecting, you lose.

I should note that if there is more than one mafia team, I will have designed it so that a particular mafia team will be joined by the mafia selector.

Last, your alignment will NOT be revealed until and unless BOTH Selectors are dead.

Neutral: Self-explanatory, but you start off unaligned, so you are neutral. You are essentially a survivor until you select a side, so if you die, you lose.

Macho: Doctors will not protect you. Jailkeepers will only block your role from working, it won’t protect you. Watchers won’t see who visited you. Any other roles that stop kills will be neutralized.

Jack of All Trades: Your powers vary depending on whether you’re Neutral, Town or Scum.
Neutral: You have the following 1-shot powers: Watch* (see who targets a player), Invent* (send me a target and an item. They’ll get a power based on that item. Careful, some items may have the opposite effect of what you might otherwise think!
[REDACTED]
Scum: You have the following 1-shot powers: Track*, Ninja* (undetectable by trackers and watchers), Roleblock*, Rolecop*, Treestump**

*Nighttime only powers.
**Treestumping: During the day at any time (provided you have not been hammered or are already dead) you may put this in bold Mod: Treestump me! and this will turn you into a treestump. Any votes on you will be reset, but you can still be voted for. You will no longer have the ability to vote. You will have the power to post still. If you are killed or lynched after this point, you are removed from the game as normal.

Win Cons:
Neutral: Survivor. Only wins if alive and game ends with 6 or more players alive.
Town: You win when all mafia, sks and any other malicious third parties are eliminated.
Scum: You win when all town, sks or any other party that has a win condition contrary to yours is eliminated or nothing can prevent them from being eliminated.

This might be a bit confusing, so any questions you should feel free to ask me about.

Confirm in Thread

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13693

The last quote doesn't matter as much but it's full disclosure.

That's all I have to convince you.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP:

Both Selectors have chosen town before 48 hours is up. I will roll a 2 sided die in the game thread.

If the die is a 1 you are scum.
If the die is a 2 you are town.

Zoraster

[Fishythefish]

My initial impression is that Bananas is likely town.

@UK: you say "formatting might help a lot". What is there in those PMs that you feel is convincingly not faked (apart from the role PM, which is null)?

It is notable that UK and Bananas agree on the scum powers. That is one scary scumbag.

unvote

[UncertainKitten]

I dunno. I doubt we'll get to see whatever the scum got. I only posted saying formatting might help to let the real gamebreakers take a stab at it.

Honestly, it would be best to resolve this early since I feel both of us need to be lynched at some point. I suggest lynching me first since, quite frankly, I

look

a lot worse in this exchange. Course, I also know for a fact that bananas is scum. So,

vote Bananas

Anyway, no need to end the day so soon so I'll of course be posting my opinions on other players and such throughout and perhaps might even vote people who aren't bananas. Of course, from my POV bananas is caught scum that I need to die to catch. So, yeah.

[Zang]

There’s just one hitch: if the other Macho Neutral Selector picks before you do, you will automatically be placed on the opposite team that that other Selector picked. If both Selectors PM me within 48 hours of Day 1’s start and both have picked the same side, I will flip a coin (via random.org) to pick whose pick actually went through. Thus, selections will not be made before 48 hours has elapsed in the game.

If you die before selecting, you lose.

ok, but why did you publicly claim? If you selected before 48 hours after recieving you role then you would have either

A. Got your choice if the other selecter didn't select
B. The coin would have flipped and you would have a 50% chance of getting your selected alignment.

Why bother claiming? You could have just used a sham account like bannanas.

[CallMeLiam]

Dealing with Xvart's reply to me:

First off, why is posting in the other thread scummy?

I should rephrase: people trying to direct the less informed super-majority to discuss specific players are scum city. Anyone doing that is subtly trying to influence the other players by having a wealth of questionable information to exploit. Town members do not need to exploit the questionable information with questionable motives from people not in this game.

I disagree here. The presence of a sounding board open to the public is something I've never played with before and I have no idea how it'll impact the game. Nonetheless it'd be stupid not to try taking advantage of it somehow. Wilfully ignoring a whole dimension of the game isn't great play.

Putting my suspicions in the other thread is hardly keeping them a secret is it? The reason I didn't put them here is because I'd have liked you to answer the question before I outright called you scummy, but at the same time I really wanted to point out that I thought you were scummy.

Yet you still haven't called me scummy in this thread AND your current vote does not support your accusations. If feels to me like you are trying to goad others into voting me without directly supporting my lynch.

After all you've said to/about me you think that DocPotter is more scummy than I am? If your vote is really just about us allegedly being teammates wouldn't you gain more information about his alignment by lynching me first than you would about my alignment by lynching him first?

Your

The MD threads "case" on me seems to be stronger than your simple "case" on DocPotter, yet you vote for him.

Talk about duplicity.

What difference does it make where I call you scummy?

My current vote suggests that I find Doc scummier than you, which I did when I made it. At the time of my vote you'd answered all my questions about your initially shady claim in a satisfactory way so I dropped it.

At the time of my vote you were actually taking part in the game, Doc wasn't. He popped up to vote and then disappeared again. This to me was scummier than your claim. The claim by the way is the only thing I didn't like at the time which is why it was the only thing I asked you about.

Finally, care to explain what you meant when you asked TotallyNotMafia why he started the thread so early? It sounds like you already knew he was going to start it. Mental note: when on a scum team in a bastard setup and my team decides to create a supplemental thread make sure that everyone knows when the appropriate time to start it is.

vote xvart

because there is no reason what so ever to claim so early, or even to talk about power roles so early...

It's a good thing I didn't

really

claim.

xvart.

That sounds to me like you're twisting my words. TNM was the first of us to start a thread and he did it early in the game. Early meaning "before a long time has passed" rather than "ahead of schedule"

Why did you fake claim?

The Bananas\UK Claim:

Urrrgh. Seems like killing both of them is the best way to snag scum here, I doubt scum would want a 1-for-1 trade.

UK\Bananas, since you admit both players would need to be killed at some point, would you be fine with us killing you first?

[UncertainKitten]

ok, but why did you publicly claim? If you selected before 48 hours after recieving you role then you would have either

A. Got your choice if the other selecter didn't select
B. The coin would have flipped and you would have a 50% chance of getting your selected alignment.

Why bother claiming? You could have just used a sham account like bannanas.

Because sham accounts didn't occur to me like they SHOULD have. It quite frankly, didn't occur to me.

UK\Bananas, since you admit both players would need to be killed at some point, would you be fine with us killing you first?

I already answered that. I'm the logical first pick for killing. I'm not gonna vote myself but I fully expect to be the D1 lynch.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Hoopla ( 0 )
totallynotmafia ( 3 ) Hoopla xvart Zang
UncertainKitten ( 0 )
xvart ( 2 ) CooLDoG totallynotmafia
animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Zang ( 1 ) Espeonage
Espeonage ( 0 )
DedicatedScribe ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 1 ) CallMeLiam
CallMeLiam ( 1 ) DocPotter
FishytheFish ( 0 )
CooLDoG ( 0 )
Zoraster ( 1 ) animorpherv1
Bananas ( 1 ) UncertainKitten
Not Voting ( 2 ) DedicatedScribe FishytheFish
Total Votes ( 12 )

Deadline: Tuesday, March 30th at 16:00 EDT
With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Hoopla]

derp

Unvote, vote: UncertainKitten

Much likelier to be the scum-half due to Bananas play, I think I'm actually open to gambling on Bananas being town and just lynching UK. Or at least not lynching them both back to back. We might have other ways of figuring things out.

[UncertainKitten]

I'd prefer you all not screw yourselves and not lynch bananas. I've understood I needed to die since I got this role, though admittedly I played the neutral part badly. Lynch me first, but make sure bananas dies before endgame.

[animorpherv1]

unvote, cote UK

for wanthing to die.

[Zang]

oh and while I remember

Unvote

[UncertainKitten]

Seems I've been wanting to die a lot in our games together, ne ani?

[xvart]

Instead of giving their own opinions they've just said "well the people in the thread think you're scum so I'm voting for you". I think this could be scum hiding behind the opinions of others so they wont be accountable for their own opinions later on. They didn't even bother to say "I agree with what they're saying about such and such" they just blindly voted.

My original vote was more out of jest, which was the reason I said it the way I did. Since it was still, in my opinion, close enough to RVS shenanigans I saw no harm in not making an official "case". Then, I kept my vote on you because of CallMeLiam's comment as pressure, since if you did get lynched and flipped scum it would give more information about CallMeLiam.

There are obviously more pressing matters to attend to now; but I don't want to hastily move my vote when there is plenty to discuss regarding the selector business. So I am comfortable leaving my vote on you for the time being.

I disagree here. The presence of a sounding board open to the public is something I've never played with before and I have no idea how it'll impact the game. Nonetheless it'd be stupid not to try taking advantage of it somehow. Wilfully ignoring a whole dimension of the game isn't great play.

But you are intentionally trying to create a case on me with others, which I wouldn't really consider scummy on the first comment, but when nothing materialized you prodded the masses again. I'll just blanket statement say that anyone that later tries to use the MD mass to substantiate a case will be awfully suspicious in my eyes. Use the MD thread all you want, but the way you did it is what is suspicious in my eyes.

Why did you fake claim?

I faked claimed because I did not realize that UK was actually stating her real role name. I thought it was some joke or something from the terrible role ideas thread or something like that. I thought it was painstakingly obvious that it was fake. I mean, just read the abilities and the jack of all trades abilities. Basically, when I thought it was a fake role I created an obviously fake role pm to have a little fun with the no rules ruleset and the quoting mod abilities (which someone pointed out is amazingly easy.

And I would never call a mod "dognuts" in a personal message.

It is notable that UK and Bananas agree on the scum powers. That is one scary scumbag.

Of course, because they are each trying to look town by not revealing the town powers.

At this time I do think the best course of action is to lynch UK, and her responses are pretty much what I would expect myself to do if I was scum in her position, agreeing that she is the best lynch candidate. I also agree with her that we should not be hasty in securing this lynch.

My conversation with UK makes a lot more sense now, so I am going to reread it and see if anything new pops up in terms of motivation and alignment.

xvart.

[animorpherv1]

Seems I've been wanting to die a lot in our games together, ne ani?

lol yes.

[animorpherv1]

Seems I've been wanting to die a lot in our games together, ne ani?

lol yes.

EBWOP: If you continue to do this, I may have to nom you for something.

[Espeonage]

Vote bananas

I want to see the real account.

[totallynotmafia]

Well seeing as UK and Bananas' allignments wont be revealed until they're dead I think the safest bet is to lynch both of them. I'm more inclined to believe Bananas at this stage because as they said it seems like a unnessessary move for scum to do to out themselves just to get UK lynched. The only motivation I can see is if the town version has a heap of powers and so Bananas thinks it's a reasonable 1-1 trade, with the added bonus that nobody will know UK's allignment when she's dead so he may get away with not being lynched afterwards.

I think we should lynch UK today, and then if Bananas is telling the truth and if they have powers which differ from scum's they should use one of them tonight so that if they can prove they used it tomorrow we will know they are telling the truth.

Unvote, vote: UncertainKitten

[animorpherv1]

I think alt creating and revealing what we did last night would be a good idea, as we get information at absolutley no cost to the town.

[CooLDoG]

I'm not sold on whos who and even if the fake account is really from the selector. I am for sure on something else... the wagon on UK (GO BIG BLUE, sorry), and I AM a fan of early game wagons. I feel as if they are the most powerful tool for the town.

unvote, vote UK

.

[Espeonage]

unvote, vote: UK

I always wanted to kill a banana but if UK is good then i can do that tomorrow.