Mini 941: (Almost) No Rules Mafia (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Confirm. Hello everyone!

[Hoopla]

UK is a bad choice.

Vote: CallMeLiam

Anyone care to join me?

[Hoopla]

Unvote, vote: Zoraster

Lets see how far we can push this wagon.

[Hoopla]

UK can't get ticked off at a mod-wagon when she's the one that started it.

Also, due to totallynotmafia's recent thread in MD, the general (external) consensus is he's playing it up for town points. As such;

Unvote, vote: totallynotmafia

[Hoopla]

Where'd your friends go? 1 of them was in a MishMash I was modding..

Yeah, okay. Who are you supposed to be?

[Hoopla]

here you go.

[Hoopla]

xvart. Could you please NOT post everything in fucking quote stripes? I'll respond SUCCINCTLY this time, but please try to respond in a more bulleted/link manner or other non quote response manner.

Anyway, basically, I'm no longer convinced you are the other neutral, which is probably good for you. The rest doesn't matter atm.

I will clarify later

Wait, are you claiming a neutral alignment?

[Hoopla]

What a ridiculous role.

[Hoopla]

OKAY, I think I now understand this selector business. From what I gather, they choose or a flip a coin and they each become town or mafia? If this is true, then we have a 50/50 chance of lynching scum (if the other neutral claims). If it doesn't then it's quite obvious UK is town, because it suits the scum half of the two to stay quiet.

Whoever the other Neutral is now needs to claim, so we can choose who to lynch out of the two of them. If the other doesn't come forward, it's fairly safe to assume UK is the town-half.

[Hoopla]

Oops. Didn't see the Bananas post. Bananas - why did you use a fake account? Why should we believe you're not scum trying to incriminate a town JOAT?

[Hoopla]

I used a fake account because I'd much much rather not get nightkilled. There is no disadvantage to the town in not outing my real account, as you are able to lynch this account if you want to. As for why you should believe me - think about the position I would be in if I had got scum, stayed quiet and killed UK.

I can only make 5 posts per day in this account. I will probably save the rest for when there is a lot to answer, but I felt this needed answering now.

Ah yes, I forget that rule - good thinking. I'm not sure what to think at the moment, although I'm probably siding with you at the moment. It seems like a more pro-town play, especially when you could have just offed UK without her alignment flipped.

A question you can answer later in your next post;

Do you think one of you should be lynched today? Is there any other alternative the town has? Obviously at least one of you need to die at some stage - should both of you be lynched back to back?

[Hoopla]

Ah yes, I forget that rule - good thinking. I'm not sure what to think at the moment, although I'm probably siding with you at the moment. It seems like a more pro-town play, especially when you could have just offed UK without her alignment flipped.

Well, the problem with this is, were I nightkilled, it'd be OBVIOUS I was the town selector. Or at least pretty damned close to obvious.

If Bananas was scum, he could have stayed quiet, and killed you off. Even if that made you look town, it wouldn't matter too much, because nobody else has a clue who the other one would be. Why would scum throw away that opportunity to go into a 50/50 chance of being lynched?

[Hoopla]

derp

Unvote, vote: UncertainKitten

Much likelier to be the scum-half due to Bananas play, I think I'm actually open to gambling on Bananas being town and just lynching UK. Or at least not lynching them both back to back. We might have other ways of figuring things out.

[Hoopla]

unvote, vote: UK

I always wanted to kill a banana but if UK is good then i can do that tomorrow.

You know that we don't find out alignments of each player until they're both dead, right?

[Hoopla]

HOOPLAS ROLE

##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ XKQQK FTMGJ RACXR STFQA AAPBC TUIRL AJCXT AKPTR QIFNB WCSTM
UQSJE LQHGJ QHWWR OGHGH WXIPU QCKVQ QQNQD QMFDQ WQHDN PPMTV CCSAB
XWVWJ VRUAH RWNWJ DQTJP BOJNA AGUHL JFGVF HTODI BBKJB TNTEV EOOTL
VWMPG LFDGT XMFHF HAVVP PKLEX GXXSI NLKBE ITPEO RSAPQ FUPEX OVIGA
UHTXR WDSTJ CCQVK EFDNE AKUCC CFPNV UTQAU RJCRJ CTLBM GMGFG BEVAJ
FXWIP HEBVV DVQKS DJBBC WEBXF DREQB TAXBL ULULP RAHEE JMLWT SNIET
GLVPO ASPJA NWRLB MMLTG PWIGF UOBRO TKTTF LHKPE QLKLQ SMDFP BCVSF
WJLTL EAXMP DJFLE JPBUH NFUMF SFCUV OASDV MJIXC KOIMW APRWN NKWNS
NBSQF ECFHA FOVCU QPSTD KAIAB SWAII OUGHT KJJIX LXILX MDLDG GHCXC
CSIOU TOMXE KJVFW VXTTW KXRSN QTKUS PEBSC JPPFC PUGFA LOLEG KGTLW
FKRKN JUPME SVIGH OISEO IFXSU PMVAG MZZZZ YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

[Hoopla]

I'm confused. If Bananas treestumps, do we find out both alignments of each? Or is it only if they both die?

[Hoopla]

I say, lets take a gamble right now that Bananas is town and UK is scum, and let Bananas live for the whole game. This way, if we're right and make this pact, it forces scum to deal with Bananas at night or take the risk of leaving them alive.

Really, Bananas actions make a lot more sense as town, when he could have stayed quiet, and offed UK as the scum-JOAT at night.

Fishy, what do you think?

[Hoopla]

I'm fairly sure Annachie is DocPotter.

[Hoopla]

I'm confused. If there is 11 alive, why does it take 7 to lynch?

Fishy, help me catch up again!

Vote: CallMeLiam

[Hoopla]

EBWOP: that last sentence isn't fair. I'm just a little frustrated at the pace of scumhunting in this game.

I agree, and I know I'm a contributing factor. The ridiculous roles on show so far have been kind of a turn off to me, if that is an indicator of what the rest of the game is going to be like. It feels like I don't have much control.

I will make a good post soon, Fishy.

[Hoopla]

Actually, screw rereading. DedicatedScribe's delay in cryptoclaiming is scummy as fuck. UK's cheap distancing with DeathNote replacing in also seems fake. Save yourself the read, Deathnote.

DayKill: DeathNote

[Hoopla]

According to your knowledge, does this end the day?

No, it doesn't end the day. I'm not revealing anything else about what I've done (or can do).

[Hoopla]

W

I

N

!!!

*takes bow*

[Hoopla]

I am curious about Hoopla's strategy. Why would she fake a kill on someone? Is she maf? I am up for a Hoopla lynch until she explains her actions.

Plz note who is alive on the front page.

YOU IDIOT. You just ruined a perfectly good gambit. Why didn't you wait for DeathNote to come in - what did you serve to gain from it by announcing it before DeathNote came back in?

[Hoopla]

I am curious about Hoopla's strategy. Why would she fake a kill on someone? Is she maf? I am up for a Hoopla lynch until she explains her actions.

Plz note who is alive on the front page.

Stupid. Whoever this account is needs to claim. Don't hide!

~~

Well, not all is lost, as we've collected a good sample of reactions before someone caught onto it. I think DeathNote's claim of talking to the mod about if he was a miller or something sounds legitimate, but I would like to see quoted PM's in his next post ASAP.

But if we're to assume DeathNote is town, can we gauge any real information from this? Lets see;

Nice kill, Hoopla. And with such gusto, to boot. I am more certain of UK being scum now, and think we should continue to pressure another person who has waffled on her being scum or not: Espeonage. More votes please.

xvart.

First up is xvart who is quite quick to believe it, which makes me think it is more town motivated than not (regardless of DeathNote's alignment). It seems like a genuine, clear town reaction, as I expect scum to deliberate (especially if DeathNote was scum, he'd unlikely be a goon due to the wacky nature of this game) - but even if he was town, he would have known I was faking from the outset, which I see no signs of.

Wow DS was scum

and

Unvote

because crymeariver is a lot more active.


Will post something better later.

Only a quick response, but it also came quite quickly. It's more likely to be town motivated, but it's the sort of comment I imagine scum saying to fake being fooled (especially if DeathNote is town). Too small a comment to really analyse sufficiently though.

Well that makes things easier, nice one Hoopla. If you have unlimited daykills I suggest killing UK and Fishy so we still save the lynches but we get to learn their allignments.

If it isn't possible for both UK and Fishy to be daykilled then I'd be happy to stick with the old plan of giving Fishy the benefit of the doubt and allowing him at least one rolecop investigation before stumping.

TTM is the first to suggest killing off UK and Fishy if I have unlimited daykills, which initially seems fishy to me, but I can understand his motivation. Also, the suggestion of unlimited daykills as a role is absurb and displays a lack of understanding which suggests he probably believed the fakemod post. TTM is probably town.

Congratulations to Hoopla, nice kill. One scumteam flavour, note.

On the offchance that you have any more kills, I agree that daykilling UK and I would be a good thing, though I'd still like a night to rolecop. Hoopla should not comment on whether he has any more kills, of course.

This feels town, but I am quite likely biased from Fishy's prob-town odds at the moment. Out of all these players, I'd have expected Fishy to notice, and him reading the flavour to determine we have one scumteam due to flavour indicates he read it long enough to potentially notice the fake mod post.

Fishy, were you playing along in your post?

~~

Unfortunately, I haven't generated any real scum reads from this - I think I could have if more players were fooled before it was outed as a sham account. But the good news is that xvart and totallynotmafia are quite likely town (especially when coupled with their individual play, both have been driving this game through inactivity).

I'm still happy to lynch Liam. I'm also happy to take questions on why I did this.

[Hoopla]

Mod:

I'm voting CallMeLiam, not CryMeARiver

[Hoopla]

EBWOP: Hoopla - I don't think we will be able to generate a consensus on CallMeLiam in under 24 hours. At this point, the lynch is likely to be you or Cry_Me_A_River. Switch your vote and let's pressure this sham to at least come forward and at best lynch.

xvart.

Without my vote, CryMeARiver and CallMeLiam both have two votes. What makes you think you're likelier to get consensus on the former but not the latter?

[Hoopla]

I suppose I could be wrong, but I think that because the front runner topic right now is you and your gambit and the person that outed you. In most people's eyes, I would think that one of the two of you are scum.

xvart.

I'd like to think even if I am power-lynched because of what I've done, it will have provided a good deal of information to sift through. I've given two solid town reads, and had the opportunity to gauge a reaction from DeathNote (a slot we know nothing about other than an avoidance to cryptoclaim) before it was ruined.

[Hoopla]

I will also be active up until the deadline.

[Hoopla]

@mod: sorry, I suck at timezones and daylight savings time. Could you give the deadline in terms of hours from a post if possible?

Deadline is 10 hours from this post.

[Hoopla]

Yep, I can get behind this.

Unvote, vote: Hate_Me_Not

[Hoopla]

May I please point out that by lynching this Sham account, you could be lynching UK whom is a tree stump. If she is maf, that would make sense for the sham account not to claim and allow himself/herself to be lynched.

I fail to see how this would be a bad result though, as there would be zero town motivation to do that as a treestump. If we lynched Hate_Me_Not, I'd be 90%+ sold that Fishy was town out of the two of them.

I'm open to switching to CML, who was my initial preference, but it seems risky to abandon votes on HMN unless we get a few people agreeing really soon so we aren't cutting it too fine.

Also, CML's claim seems way more beneficial for scum than town, and seems like the sort of role that could go both ways. The eagerness to claim to deflate his wagon on L-3 seemed like a cheap way to steer attention off himself. I think claiming early when becoming a viable lynch is generally a fairly reliable scum tell.

[Hoopla]

What other reaction can you be wanting from me? I didn't delay crypto claiming, the person I replaced did. I just didn't understand how to do it so I got my brother to do it for me.

I am still disturbed about being chosen to be fake killed.

I would have loved to have seen what you would have said before it was outed. And I would still love to see quoted interactions with zoraster about what you said to him. Post them now?

Catching you going 'bah, go scum' was a longshot, maybe a 1/40, for it meant you needed to have that exact role, and then be bothered posting an incriminating bah post. But the value of seeing a solid town reaction from you was important to me, because your slot has been difficult to read so far. I wasn't looking for specific tells X, Y and Z, as I had no idea what you would have said - but I think putting scum/town in unfamiliar territory is often the most revealing time, due to an inability to predict outcomes of their actions and what will happen next. It gives a better chance for pure motives to shine through, as opposed to the routine back and forths some Day 1's can be like, that most adequate scum players can handle quite easily due to familiarity, which clouds genuine actions.

[Hoopla]

A reminder: I'm macho. No doctors, jailkeepers, watchers, bodyguards, etc. welcome.

Initially I was going to say, getting a no-lynch Day 1 is not worth creating a confirmed townie out of it, but I had forgotten the above point.

Scanning through the list of players, we have a few voting for HMN, a few that have questioned his methods, and one or two that are inactive for this time-frame. I'm having a hard time seeing HMN as anyone other than UK.

The other possibility is HMN is otherscum trying to put suspicion onto the gambit, and this is reason why that sham account hasn't claimed. But again, this is unlikely compared to UK being HMN.

~~

As such;

Unvote, vote: CallMeLiam

[Hoopla]

Oh wait, it's open again? I just made a post in the MD thread, but I'll repost it here;


Guys, DeathNote is probably town. That sounds exactly like zoraster - I talk to him via PM on MSN a bit, and those are definitely his mannerisms. Short, brief answers for simple questions, and then occasional wordy responses when he wants to get a point across.

The only possibility those are staged is if DeathNote has altered his own messages to zoraster. But I would say no, based purely on the flow of responses. DeathNote would have had to alter zoraster's messages slightly if he'd sent him some other message initially. Feels really natural to me.

[Hoopla]

I blame the democrats.

[Hoopla]

UK, I've asked what makes me sscum. I quickly read nthrough that, and saw a kill, than a sham calling it fake, and I went back and read

after

.

Your utter lack of caring this entire game. Why should scum care about who treestumps if the figure whichever one is their buddy is a lost cause?

Your flipping it around to look pro-scum.

I didn't care because if 1 Town treestumped, and 1 Mafia treestumped, than Mafia would lose (assuming there is a total of 3 mafia pre-stump), than Mafia lost 33% of their side, and town lost about 11% (assuming their is 9 town pre-stump), which gives it a pro-town advantage.

But you didn't say that. You didn't explain that. All you said is "lol I don't care"

And THAT is the difference.

I didn't think I needed it.

Well, it also helps you've contributed pretty much NOTHING throughout the entirity of D1. Unless you mean to prove me wrong there?

'tis true. I hope to find something scummy from someone's actions soon.

NICE DISTANCING GUYS

Especially when it ends like this;

...

Yeah, not gonna cut it.

[Hoopla]

I just realized that I happened to be on that wagon. I had no idea as I forgot to unvote when I joined the game. I am sorry

Who would you have voted for instead?

[Hoopla]

I assume you are referring to cryptoclaiming, which CoolDoG actually did.

Yeah, but how is Grimmy supposed to know the key?

[Hoopla]

vote:Hoopla

you have a gun.

I hereby acknowledge this is factual information.

Unvote, vote: Hate_Me_Not

while I am here.

[Hoopla]

I think Liam's flip is an indication of how watered down your investigations likely are.

[Hoopla]

I'd normally be against claiming, but it looks like I have no choice if everyone requires a claim. Ani, what I meant by talking about Liam's flip, is that it would imply there were multiple cop roles (guns) in the set-up which heavily dillutes your chances of finding mafia, and needlessly outs powerroles. Oh well.

My password is 'zorastersuckscock'. I have no idea how to work that site, so someone decrypt it for me?

HOOPLAS ROLE

##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ DQUVC JJVLX PECWJ UQMLA RASDU JEGKB OCHXL UKPBS HIGMU BMTCK
BWMBV AFMGJ TOSGM CBFDU UMXTQ PUWRB PSNLT BRBKD QRBIB WAJNH ULXID
CCXIV NXDDB QOCNE IEVGP BIKOR BRBNL QTGLV MTJWI JDIWG LMRID NPCQH
VGRJQ DKEIW CJTFL TBSWE MUJOP KLBEM IKWQB MJORO OIPOD VFFBE TGGBM
OSBOT JQMEK SEWSC DQGIU XRPAT AENQQ QQBHQ BOGPT PHPHN BKFXO EFBXX
WFXBP VEAWW FUMUG GSPTF XBOGF VMLNX XIURJ AEVLJ LAGIG IEPWE FNKPT
XWEBU AWQQP LKMSL UFITP RRXOW TBERF EHFTI RIKEW FQPMI BNCSO LRNAD
DJTTU NSQWA KVEDX ADUHD EDLPH MIBXL SVJLX XHEBC IOCAJ XJTPI QXWXR
GVSNM BKNKM HPHPL UFKRR RRNWC WJAFE BPTIT QMXWG VSROR CLLUN CWOIL
EAQOA TEGIF LRGIC USOWU MAPQN ATOEW SBVNC EPPEC HCKPW BPSAE DORKK
FLEJQ SHBLM BDGWG PJPPM MLCNP OBCFW TOIPU EIJBX NUBXP PWQKP RLSNL
LOMIJ HAFEW TLUEE SISGC JXAXG KGRNX XRIXP QHLIJ ISJTB OLTGH QPSOF
ETGNF ONJGF JOUOC DJDTP ITHAB OBTTI SQSJQ ABBOI NDTRO LDRCN SKLEC
GVUUA COBSV EXAQH URTWX VHOPH DNSPT MWHCG AOMCH RTOVS XWJXT PKTWO
JLVWE SDRST SOVSH IKGHA BKGBD XNKIJ XHAAO WAEQW NUQPL KJTLA ASGFT
WKRAN BQDBD OLLNR UXVKL BJDMK WCXXN LOQEL WOBXM HJSOV CTHJI BRSMH
BRJRL GNCIU GOFVF AAKUW RZZZZ YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

Anyway, last night I targetted Espeonage, mostly because I had zero read on him, and despite being a lurker, likely wouldn't have been NK'ed or lynched the next day, making it a worthwhile investigation. He came up town.

Any more questions?

[Hoopla]

What's the code to your original claim?

xvart.

I don't have it.

Hoopla.

[Hoopla]

How is DeathNote scum again?

[Hoopla]

I like where this is going. Not me, by the way.

[Hoopla]

DeathNote is scummy for the whole HMN and lying to the town thing. I forgot he was the one you fake-targeted, I don't really know the motivation behind doing that to fellow scum besides possible distancing but at any right I'd like to hear DeathNote's reasoning for misleading the town and not just owning up to the sham yesterday.

It doesn't really make sense, to be honest.

[Hoopla]

1) What are you talking about?
2) I don't think it was DeathNote's sham account that got Liam lynched.
3) Even if that is true - how does a Hoopla/DeathNote scumteam possibly work?
4) What are you wearing?

[Hoopla]

Look, here's what happened. I lost the key to my first cryptoclaim and knew I'd be lynched for it after I remember I hadn't saved it. This is why I claimed this way - because if I was going to be lynched anyway, I might as well have tried to repost my role PM. It was a risk that I needed to take, because there was no downside to losing.

I am a cop

, and it sucks because ani will probably just out someone tomorrow as well.

I don't expect to be believed, but this is what happened, and I am sorry for losing my first password. I knew it had to come out at some point though.

[Hoopla]

TNM you are clutching at straws here.

Word.

TNM is still town though - his reaction to my gambit yesterday was totally town, and I don't see scum pushing so hard on this point now.

Espeopnage, who is scum? I have no idea where your suspicions lie right now.

[Hoopla]

IMO, 'TheRealGunSmith' should claim now, because I refuse to believe that claim isn't related to this thread.

[Hoopla]

ZANG YOU'RE A GENIUS. I LOVE YOU.


or maybe the town is an ungenius. i don't know.

[Hoopla]

I can't believe we managed to win this - as soon I was lynched, I pencilled this in as a loss, especially with Ythill and shaft.ed clamouring for Zang's demise. I think it would have been a more interesting game had I not been caught out by ani, because a few people thought I was town at that point. UK was also good entertainment value, and kept us in the game with that no-lynch with 5 players alive - what was town thinking?

I have a complaint about the complexity of the roles/set-up. Neutral Macho Selector Jack of All trades? Seriously? I think this game had a killer mechanic that made it special and unique - you didn't need the zany set-up quirks to make it interesting. For me, I felt like it detracted from the game, and spoilt any opportunity to efficiently plan long-term (or any more than a day really) because I had no idea what could be out there. I don't even remember using either of my additional role-powers. I think a lot of it just served to create chaos, when really there was enough of it going on already.

Thanks for modding Zoraster - it's lucky the Grimmy-clearing wasn't costly in the end. But otherwise you did a sound job, yet again.

[Hoopla]

I can understand that complaint, Hoopla, but I thought while they were moderately complex, it wasn't a complexity that really harmed the game... or at least wouldn't have it played optimally. UK's gambit of claiming it early sort of put a crimp in that.

I guess I'll wait for other people's thought on that role pairing, but it's one that I thought was interesting.

The thing is though Zor, I have no idea how you can accurate account for balance with such roles. It just seems like guesswork, because there are so many unseen/unthought of ways the roles could be used, especially with everything else the game had. It was just....too much

---

Also, as scum, we managed to flaunt the rule of 'talking publicly about the game' on-site. We each had old posts buried in the Mish Mash forum we regularly edited and updated to simulate Day Talking.

[Hoopla]

Do you think so? It seemed pretty easy to me. It seemed an awful lot like a JoAT, really.

I liked the mafia day talk strategy! I was kind of hoping one of you would get caught out

I guess it's probably more a personal taste in what I expect from a set-up really. I generally prefer playing in games you have a decent amount of control over what happens, which is why I mostly stick with Mini Normals. In this there are few limits to what could possibly be out there, which makes short and long term planning (especially as scum) quite hard, with some bizarre, unpredictable thing happening to mess it all up. Even town felt this in the end, with a framer around which nobody could predict. I know there will always be unknown roles/powers in any games, but perhaps my threshold is lower and revels in being able to predict things with some accuracy.

[Hoopla]

2. This is a bastard setup.

I don't remember this when I inned!