Mini 927: Alabama Correctional Facility - OVER

[SpyreX]

I'd really, REALLY like some substance from Grim about anything.

[Jahudo]

There's not much I can read into with UK's posting, except this quote bothers me:

I'll admit I was hoping that was what Elli was implying and probably shouldn't have so quickly pointing out the Role PM quotery, hoping Elli would be caught saying that wasn't the town PM or something. Then again, I also assume that the scum know what the town PM looks like, so I guess that wouldn't be easy to catch a scum in.

It reads like she's aware of her contradicting logic, which is honest, but its still suspicious logic.

Basically she hoped to catch scum not knowing the town flavor WHILE assuming scum have fakeclaims. Maybe she did it to cover all the bases? That could be a town gambit or scum cautiousness. It hard to gauge which, but I feel like she was more focus and confident about scum having fakeclaims.

Because she assumed fakeclaims when pwnman claimed:

pwnman's desperation to confirm himself as town caused a lot of frownies in my eyes, which contributed to my assumption of falseclaims.

And she said she was aware of the town flavor:

I saw Warden's Pet and assumed scum. There's actually a quite hilarious PM I sent to DGB complaining about "being a mafia traitor" when she then confirmed I was town.

But instead of starting with that line of attack, she withheld her suspicion and repeated Elli's post of "Fail":

...

Fail

Lemme find my old shoving order.

So its hard to see if she was testing Elli, or actually didn't know how to respond.

[Ellibereth]

SHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHS
I had a town read on Uk, and have a town read on Slicey. Only matter of doubt is that meta-stuff that Farside brought up, but stuff I don't know doesn't hold any weight.
KRINGKRINGKRINGKRING
Content from Grimmy and Minineko would be very nice.
ZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAP
And more COVERING SAMP WITH NUTRILOAF!!!!

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

Attention everyone: stop waiting for someone else to make the next move.

[Minineko]

Fling Jahudo's NUTRILOAF at Minineko

Pass it back please?

Carefully underhand Jahudo's NUTRITHING at Jahudo

[SpyreX]

Attention everyone: stop waiting for someone else to make the next move.

SIR YES SIR

Launch Fighters: SpyreX's Loaf at SAMP

[Cobalt]

standoffs are very exciting

[Jahudo]

So I'll buy the Cobalt town meta thing for now.

Does this mean your not considering a Cobalt lynch?
What do you think about Slicey?

[Grimmy]

Been busy, but a parting shot before the weekend.

I do not think that pimp should be the target for today.

My sights are still on the trio of Jahudo, Neko and Slicey.

My reasons havent gotten any stronger, but they havent diminished either.

Grimmy

[farside22]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Slicey]

-He comes in at deadline and says he won't change his shove count, but he asks people to give their suspicions and reasons before he makes his own. And he doesn't read day 1. This all feels like he's using his replacement status and timing to avoid any connections from the day 1 votes. And asking others for player reads before giving your own is always scummy, IMO.

Well of course I want people suspicions. The sooner the better right? Does it matter if it's the end of Day 1 or beginning of Day 2? How can I make suspicions based on nothing? Like I said, I'm trying the Xyl approach, meaning my reads aren't based on things that happened before I entered the game. Thus I was trying to get a feel for the game as soon as I can by asking people for their suspicions. And asking for other peoples read before your own is not scummy if you just entered the game. You're basically saying that since I'm trying a different method of scumhunting that's a bit unorthodox, that's scummy.

@Slicey: you said you didn't have a problem with UncertainKitten's shove, but also that you didn't have a good grasp on the game. So what kind of shove would you have had a problem with?

I was basically looking at Hacker, who was the leading lynch candidate, saw where he was on UK's list which was rather high. He didn't say anything to make me think he was town, so I didn't really have a problem with lynching him.

-He seems to have a contradictory read between Cobalt-SAMP and Cobalt-Minineko. One of his reasons for thinking SAMP is town is because bussing obv-scum Cobalt seems unlikely. But Cobalt and Mini both suspect each other.

@Slicey: How are these situations different?

First: I think SAMP is town. He has done nothing to make me think he is scum. The fact that one of my biggest suspicions is attacking him is just another reason to make me think SAMP is town.
Second: The bussing between Cobalt and Minineko is both onesided and not as strong. Cobalt thinks Minineko is scum. But Minineko doesn't think Cobalt is scum. And Cobalt has done pretty much nothing to state why he thinks Minineko is scum, ergo the bussing is quite different. He actually gave reasons for thinking SAMP is scum IIRC, or at least is doing a bit more than saying "you're scum."

Responses in bold.

[Slicey]

I'm currently thinking a Cobalt-Minineko-Jahudo scumteam, though still very unsure about the last one.

The reasoning I have for Jahudo scum right now is because of the person he threw his Nutriloaf to. Minineko, as evident in this game, can disappear for long periods of time. Why would you hand your vote to someone who may not come back in time to pass it back to you? Why not give it to someone you trust whose active, which in your case looks like someone like farside? Oh, is it because you don't want your vote to show up in a votecount, which will help you as scum later on in the game when we're analyzing votecounts? Yeah, I thought so. Again, this is not concrete, but I think it's something I can build off of and I ask everyone to speculate on it.

Also, because I really don't want SAMP lynched, and because Cobalt is the only person who also has a vote on him, I will do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crz4_UofhS0

GIGA DRILL BREAKER Slicey's Nutriloaf at Cobalt.

[SpyreX]

This is going to shape up to be illuminating. I think the lines are starting to get drawn.

[Jahudo]

There was still 9 days before deadline when I threw to Mini. His biggest period of inactivity so far has been 4 days. It was a safe move, and I chose him because I had just stopped suspecting him. It was like an olive branch, except filled with kibbles and bits.

I'm trying the Xyl approach, meaning my reads aren't based on things that happened before I entered the game. Thus I was trying to get a feel for the game as soon as I can by asking people for their suspicions. And asking for other peoples read before your own is not scummy if you just entered the game. You're basically saying that since I'm trying a different method of scumhunting that's a bit unorthodox, that's scummy.

And yes, I do find that scumhunting strategy to be scummy. It seems to only benefit scum, by giving them an excuse to ignore part of the game. Especially when its deadline and every vote counted, including yours that you didn't claim. Though I will admit it isn't a big deal to ask for other people's player reads when replacing into the game; you'd have learned that through reading anyway.

[Minineko]

So I'll buy the Cobalt town meta thing for now.

Does this mean your not considering a Cobalt lynch?
What do you think about Slicey?

I'm still considering it, just not pushing for it at that point.

I'll look at Slicey now.

Jahudo: Yes, Sushi Mafia.

Oh crap, don't remind me... I never had ANY idea what the hell was going on in that game even after rereading it a dozen times. I just gave up after a while. I replaced in midgame.

Also, because I really don't want SAMP lynched, and because Cobalt is the only person who also has a vote on him, I will do this:

GIGA DRILL BREAKER Slicey's Nutriloaf at Cobalt.

This is the only fishy Slicey post I see, otherwise his approach to the game seems townie, especially the way he came in and the "Xyl approach".

This post smells like he's looking for an excuse to wagon an easyish target.

I like his line of questioning though, Jahudo, why did I get your loafthing?

meow.

[Cobalt]

let me get this right, slicey... you think the scumteam is me/neko/jah, then you laid out a case on neko, then you loaf'd me because I already have a vote on me? who are your scumbuddies?

[Slicey]

I don't think enough people will vote Neko. The only other person who might is Grimmy. IMHO, Mini lynch > Cobalt lynch >>>>>> SAMP lynch, which is why I loaf'd you.

But thanks for reassuring my throw. The classic "everyone who says I'm scum is scum" attack.

[Cobalt]

if by "everyone" you mean "one person who would rather lynch someone else"

[Jahudo]

I like his line of questioning though, Jahudo, why did I get your loafthing?

People were talking about giving it to someone you trust. I was demonstrating how I now trust your playstyle of low activity is not an alignment tell. And that was the basis of my case on you. And I was confident you wouldn't disappear for 9 days, because that's more like flaking time than someone in V/LA.

[Jahudo]

@farside: Do you still think SAMP's town read on Hacker is suspicious?
What do you think post 376 means, when SAMP pushed his #2 suspect (Mini) in the #1 town slot? Do you think it was mostly to save himself? Do you think there was some buddying/distancing going on? Do you think this is an example of the inversion strategy being manipulated in a way that mostly or only makes sense as scum?

I agree he didn't mention Mini as scum until Cobalt stopped being viable. And his first mention was that Mini is likely a buddy, but no explanation other than the idea that Hacker was a less likely buddy and they were the two viable lynches.

Though I've also felt that SAMP initially used the inversion strategy for the same reason that I did. Mini's placement was more a product of how other people were pushing him, rather than how I felt about him. But that doesn't mean someone can't suspect people they push to the town slots.

-----------------
@Spyrex: Did you make a case on SAMP somewhere, or are you just agreeing with others on it? Do you think he's scummy from his reaction to pwnman's copying?

I was pre-disposed to thinking the copying reactions were a moot point when pwnman flipped town.

-----------------
@Elli: What are the strongest points of your SAMP case? Is it his Cobalt tunneling? His Hacker town read? Why have you paired him with me again--Is it the inversion strategy?

The way I read the tunneling is that SAMP was using a gambit to exagerrate his suspicion on Cobalt in order to get reactions. And I guess a product of that was ignoring everyone else, like Minineko.
@SAMP: Is that accurate?

-----------------
@Slicey: Would you agree that your Cobalt case is based on things you haven't read? Example: his lurker/easy hunt of Minineko? Haven't you also made a lurker/easy hunt of Minineko? You said he needs to eventually die for having a lurker meta. That's a pretty easy hunt.

Slicey, you also said you think avoiding questions is a good scumtell, right? Did you know that a dead townie (pwnman) in this game avoided questions? Is there something specific about this tell that can separate Cobalt from pwnman?

[farside22]

@farside: Do you still think SAMP's town read on Hacker is suspicious?
What do you think post 376 means, when SAMP pushed his #2 suspect (Mini) in the #1 town slot? Do you think it was mostly to save himself? Do you think there was some buddying/distancing going on? Do you think this is an example of the inversion strategy being manipulated in a way that mostly or only makes sense as scum?

I didn't see why he thought Hacker was town.
He had no case on mini and if you look at the line up mini was one step above him so damn straight I looked at it as an attempt to save himself more then mini being scum choice #2
When someone brings up looking at the shove counts and then doing inversion I'm going to find that scummy. I see no reason to use this except to cover up your suspect list. He should have if he wanted to show players he thought as scummy towards the bottom like everyone else. I see it as an attempt to mislead the town.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

The way I read the tunneling is that SAMP was using a gambit to exagerrate his suspicion on Cobalt in order to get reactions. And I guess a product of that was ignoring everyone else, like Minineko.
@SAMP: Is that accurate?

No. I focused on him because he really was (and still is) the scummiest player.

[Jahudo]

Then why do these two quotes say he's "obvscum" and "definitely scum"

Other than obvscum Cobalt

, my current shove order is strictly the inverse of the current average, so as to minimize the chances that anyone other than Cobalt is lynched.

Just because Cobalt is very definitely scum

and I want him lynched no matter what anyone else does, doesn't mean I no longer have a responsibility to determine everyone else's alignment.

But later on in the game you retroactively say you only had a slight scum read on him?

I didn't have any scum reads on anyone at the time

except a slight one on Cobalt

It seems to me that you were exaggerated your read in the first 2 quotes in order to lynch him, or you are backtracking from your tunneling in quote #3.

[Jahudo]

Forget what I said above. Those two quotes came after the slight read you were referring to.

I thought that was the tunneling people are talking about, but I guess it's somewhere else?

[Ellibereth]

Terribad Power Outage, LA for a few days