Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote; Vote: Horror

He's posting in other games but not this one.

Unvote; Vote: Horror

Well that seals it for me.

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count -- D1

horrordude0215

(5) -- SpyreX, Budja, Fate, Porkens, Debonair Danny DiPietro
Zang (4) -- d3x, AlmasterGM, RedCoyote, Kthxbye
AlmasterGM (1) -- cruelty

Not Voting (2) --

horrordude0215

, Zang

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 02 APR 2010 at 9:15pm UTC. (Countdown)

V/LA

AlmasterGM until 2010 MAR 10

Notes

Seeking a replacement for horrordude0215

[Fate]

DEATH TO ALL GAME DISCRIMINATORS! OURS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU!?

[RedCoyote]

PLEASE don't take it out on my replacement. I read my posts and literally said "WTF?"... I think it was because of my lack of sleep/paying attention.

Can you say red flag?

This is over the top. I understand and respect the decision to replace out, especially in your situation, but to warn us not to hold it against your replacement? Why would you feel it necessary to warn us of that?

---

Nobody genneraly look like scum. Horror was the only one who made me think scum but that could just be because of life so if his replacement is just as bad then there's a good chance he might be scum. And i didn't ask him because he shouldn't need questions to be able to defend himself.

I don't really like this either. This whole train of thought sounds convoluted, to be perfectly honest. Are you making it up as you go along? The way I read this is, "I don't find anyone to be very scummy except for Horror. Please don't hold me to this though, because I am unsure if my feelings are compromised by his real life situations. Maybe if he gets replaced I will re-read him for scumminess, but he should be able to defend himself without me asking it!"

It's absolute gibberish.

---

With a guy like Zang, you either lynch them right away, or you give them a free pass 'till the end of the game.

I've got to agree with Porkens here. If we don't hold Zang's feet to the fire now then it would be hypocritical to do so later. Zang is all over the place. Maybe, as at least one person has said, this is all null and he just plays this way as town, but the question before you is if you want to have him around until the end of the game.

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So you guys don't personally want and don't want the rest of us to be able to get a read on Horror's replacement before going into D2? I can't possibly fathom how this is best for town. In fact, this viewpoint is worse than anything we every had on Horror.

I generally like your analytical, more rational posts, but this is a little overboard. Are you really saying Porkens is "worse" (read: scummier) than horror on account of his D1 political stance?

Am I the only one who is dumbstruck by Budja and Porkens view on lynching Horror?

Yes, frankly, you are. At least I can see the case against horror clearly. I don't know if you're expecting some sort of major slip, which is relatively rare for the town to come across, but this is a pretty clean case for a D1 lynch. He's either not paying attention to the game, or he's feigning it, he claimed his vote was random, yet he clearly acknowledged he was willingly joining a bandwagon, and, to top it off, he lectures us on cutting his replacement slack.

I really don't like these 'lynch quickly for a short day 1' or 'lynch the player who posted a total of 9 posts' ideas. They seem very rushed and not helpful. It gives me the impression that you 3 feel day one is utterly pointless in which I have to fully and unequivocally disagree.

I understand this, and you're entitled to argue this point as you are doing right now. My argument would be that Day 1 should end when a majority of the players feel as though they have found a player they're comfortable lynching. It should not be artificially extended, and by the same token, it shouldn't be "rushed" in the sense that people on the wagon either have not explained why they're on it or they don't feel as though it's a good enough lynch. The former shows that they aren't paying attention, for better or for worse, and the latter shows that they're either being too passive or delibrately trying to fly under the radar.

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For the record if this goes through and horror flips a mafia PR [Kthxbye is] dead to rights.

I wouldn't go this far. I sense sincerity in Kthxbye's posts. You don't, Spyrex?

What about Porkens?

---

Unvote; Vote: Horror

He's posting in other games but not this one.

I'm really just about equal at this point; I'll lynch either of these guys.

[SpyreX]

A goon, we'll see. A PR? Yea.

It just bothers me fat city

[RedCoyote]

Whoever can decode the above post, please clue the rest of us, namely me, in.

[RedCoyote]

I think I get the first part though.

[SpyreX]

I'm REALLY tired

The defense bothers me quite a bit. Really read it.

[Kthxbye]

RC: Looks like we agree on quite a few things. If I am the only one that thinks more time is better, so be it. It all sorta felt rushed to me.

No, I do not think Porkens is "worse" than Horror. I had horror at the top of my scum list not too far back (Zang has subsequently replaced him). If you are refering to the FoS, it was in there to make sure Porkens explained his views as I didn't understand them.

Spyre: Horror is not an honor scout. I never said he was. I don't even think I have ever defended him. Please show me, in quotes, where you feel I did said defending. I'm trying to figure out what makes him a better lynch than Zang. All I see is his contradictory posts early on and then V/LA and Replacement. Hell, even in the post where he asked to be replaced, I pointed out scumminess. You need to explain, with quotes, how I am doing these things you accuse me of.
-------------------
If Horror is posting in other games and replacing out in this one, combined with his plea for us to not take out anything on his replacement, THAT is something I am for sure willing to lynch for. I will check for myself these posts in which you speak to confirm for myself before shooting from the hip though.

[Kthxbye]

March 10th, 12:23am, Newbie 915, game length is 8 pages: Horror posts a game related question and mentions nothing about needing to replace out.

March 9th, 6:20pm, Newbie 926, length is new game 1 page: Horror /cofirms he is ready for game.

March 9th, 6:21pm - 09:01pm, game length is 8 pages: Horror does a re-read and then posts 5 game related posts during time frame. Mentions nothing about needing to be replaced out.

March 4th, 11:57pm, game length is 56 pages: Horror has post about having a rough time. Has yet to ask to be replaced out of this game.

Like I said, this combined with plea for us to not hold grudge for his replacement in this game...doesn't get more suspicious or scummy than that IMO. It also forces me to view his first posts in a different light.

Unvote, Vote: Horror

He is now at L-1.

Horror: Anything to say?

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count -- D1

horrordude0215

(6) -- SpyreX, Budja, Fate, Porkens, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Kthxbye
Zang (3) -- d3x, AlmasterGM, RedCoyote
AlmasterGM (1) -- cruelty

Not Voting (2) --

horrordude0215

, Zang

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 02 APR 2010 at 9:15pm UTC. (Countdown)

V/LA

AlmasterGM until 2010 MAR 10

Notes

Seeking a replacement for horrordude0215

[HowardRoark]

DeathSauce replaces horrordude0215

[DeathSauce]

Howdy.

Horrordude was absolutely horrible and does not know how to play this game.

I'm DeathSauce and I am a Miller.

Things that bother me in this game:
1) RedCoyote. Especially this

Well we have a month before the deadline, but wagoning an absentee just isn't productive.

Are you always so townie sounding? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I feel like you always sound town to me...

^^^ makes me want to puke.

Also, his statement that he won't vote for cruelty because he tunneled him in another game.

2) Debonair Danny defending Fate out of nowhere

[DeathSauce]

Forgot this

Vote: RedCoyote

[SpyreX]

A miller?

HAHAHAHAHA WELP

[Kthxbye]

Well, at least we won't be losing a PR. All we'll be losing (assuming you're telling the truth) is someone who can not be confirmed as town in the event we have a Cop. Cop wastes (imo) an investigation on you just find get a guilty result which means you're telling the truth or you're scum. Smart play as scum as it was probably the only chance you had to even try and sway someone. Not swaying me. You (or your predecessor really) are the weakest link. Goodbye.

[DeathSauce]

Kind of a hopeless situation to replace into, but if I am doomed I seriously hope you guys take a closer look at RC and Fate.

[DeathSauce]

And I disagree that it is OK to lynch a townie with an "Oh well" attitude. Lynching scum is better. Like RedCoyote, for example

[Kthxbye]

The "oh well" attitude stems from me believing Horror was scummy for his replacing out of this game and not the rest (in fact he's still active in some of the others and confirmed to start in a brand new one) and your role not being confirmable whether you are or aren't telling the truth. Not "oh well" that we are lynching a townie.

That being said, you really think Fate or RC are scummy. What about them says scum to you? quotes would be nice, post numbers sufficient. Also, are you dropping the DDD defending Fate claim? If not, could you please point out where you see this exchange happening?

Lastly, if you could place yourself in our shoes for a minute, would you unvote Horror and his replacement what with the evidence against him? Do you not think it scummy to replace out of a game where he is getting a lot of heat yet stay active in other games and start a new one while asking to be replaced in this one? What is your opinion of that if you were in our shoes? How would you treat the replacement and most importantly, why?

It's nothing personal against you man, you replaced into a bad situation. But if you're really gonna flip town, might as well help us out while you can. I'll even unvote to prevent any hammers before you've gotten a chance to say your peace.

Unvote

[Fate]

Kthx has good questions. There's really nothing you can say though, as I expect this, "I don't know what horror was thinking. I wish I could get inside his head, etc. etc."

Miller claim screams of last minute defense of an otherwise irreparable situation.

DDD's defense of me was more of a "I interpreted his post differently" sort of thing, while RC did blatantly call me townie (as well as a few others) and it is noted.

[DeathSauce]

Fate has it right on.

Why is horror replacing out of this game and still active in others? I have no idea. Is it scummy? Yeah I can see how it could be, but he is inexperienced and got himself into a horrible situation here. He could have prevented the whole thing by telling everyone right off that he was a Miller.

I'm not dropping any suspicion of DDD, it was a mild defense but it was a defense, and I always make a point of noting when one player answers for another, it helps when I'm reviewing the game.

Regarding RC and Fate, I am not saying I found the scum team. I simply found it difficult to believe that someone could post "Wow, you are SO town! It''s towntastic how townie you are!" and no one comments on it.

Believe me, when I volunteered for this suicide mission, the last thing I was hoping to see was a Miller role! If I were you, I'd say "yeah, that's pretty convenient" but I'm not going to dig a deeper hole for this slot by lying.

[DeathSauce]

Someone show me where horrordude has posted in the forum after asking for replacement here yesterday, because I can't find it.

Not saying it isn't true, just want to see the evidence

[Zang]

So many peopl critcized my post I can't quote them all, so here's RCs-

I don't really like this either. This whole train of thought sounds convoluted, to be perfectly honest. Are you making it up as you go along? The way I read this is, "I don't find anyone to be very scummy except for Horror. Please don't hold me to this though, because I am unsure if my feelings are compromised by his real life situations. Maybe if he gets replaced I will re-read him for scumminess, but he should be able to defend himself without me asking it!"

I'm serious, in many of the few games I've been in (including this one), I see people randomly accusing people of being scum and they make up scum tells. Many of theese "scum tells" are actually null or even town. For example, Cruelty was accused of lieing but no matter how good the reasoning is, (not) reading the rules is a null tell. I find real scum that kill townies like possibly horror/deathsauce (and welcome!) and I have to admit that if I was one of you I would be tempted to vote for myself.


And deathsauce

Miller claim screams of last minute defense of an otherwise irreparable situation.

Vote:DeathSauce

[DeathSauce]

Ha! That's one hell of a welcome!

Explain exactly why I'm scum, but this time use your own words instead of hiding behind someone else's reasoning.

[SpyreX]

Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:46 pm - horrordude0215 Road to Rome
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:20 pm - his replacement.

Lynchin' time in the city