Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[jammer]

Games for reference.

Newbie 803
Scum lynched day 4 - lost
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11691

Mafia 98
Townie lynched day 4 - lost
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11845

[Skill006]

Thanks jammer ^_^


[/b]

[jmurph3]

@Skill: to start with your question for me...

Why was his case weak? (btw, I don't want a zorb answer for this).

Not sure what you mean by a zorb answer...but here goes anyway...

I think skill / jammer = scum (at least one of the pairing), but i have no real preference.

Skill already has a vote, so there's already somebody on her case.

I'm going after jammer more than skill because, as far as I've seen,

nobody else

sees that jammer is scummy.

To start off with, Ray states directly that he's only focusing on jammer because you already had someone voting for you. This instantly discredits his vote (though not necessarily his case), at least to me.

Then, he sums his case up as this:

Many of his one-liners are more questions and slight prods towards other players to get them to state their reads while not really contributing much as to his own reads or analysis.

You can't be town by just making others do all the work.

This is what jammer is doing.

So he's scummy to me.

I don't necessarily agree that jammer's posts have been all one-liners. He has had his fair share of them, without a doubt, but he has also contributed actual content, though admittedly not as much as I would like.

So Ray's case was weak. Which is why I tried to take a different stance and examine different things when I made my cases against you and jammer. As it is, I misread one of jammer's post, thus making him more suspicious to me than he otherwise would have been.

Now,

However, when I saw her posts, I had the same thought that Zorb had, and that was that she was really playing follow the leader. It's easy to follow the most aggresive person/people, those 2 in particular (prana and ray), as they pass a blind eye to people who follow them (or they appear to, anyway).

I'll admit to not doing so well at making my own cases in D1, but I take mild offense to this. I stated my cases on both you and jammer separate of Prana's or Ray's. And while my "case", if you can even call it that, against you does highlight your vote on jammer, as does Prana's, it's because it's really one of the only things you did during D1 that was actually worthwhile. That and at the time I wasn't looking so closely at you because I thought jammer seemed scummier.

[RayFrost]

jmurph's stuff regarding my case...

'Ray's case is weak, so I'm going to make a new one even though Ray hasn't really done anything to support an attack on jammer! Go go power rangers!'


sums it up, methinks

[RayFrost]

@ Zorb:

I had four posts during the period of time that fuzzy was ran up and lynched.

I wasn't very vocal about it, I admit.

I should've been, but I was quite busy during that period of time and (if you check other games) lurking quite a bit ^.^"

[PranaDevil]

However, when I saw her posts, I had the same thought that Zorb had, and that was that she was really playing follow the leader. It's easy to follow the most aggresive person/people, those 2 in particular (prana and ray), as they pass a blind eye to people who follow them (or they appear to, anyway).

Erm, pardon? Either you've not been paying much attention at all to the goings on in this game, or you are deliberately leaving out rather important points there.

I know I, for a fact, have pulled up jmurph on her "follow the leader" stuff on D1, and I'm also pretty sure Ray has. If you're going to make a pointless comment, at least make sure it's somewhat buried in the realms of reality.

As for Zorblag's question about who I felt got turned towards voting fuzzy.... in all honesty, mainly me.

I was already making it obvious that I favoured the Apathy lynch, but would go with fuzzy if that was the direction that was felt better as a whole, because I felt both were scum anyway, and we were getting exceptionally close to deadline.

Now, perhaps I should have stuck with my original Apathy vote, but part of my reasoning was that Apathy wasn't contributing much at all, and when he was, it wasn't helping town that much. The fact Zorblag's come in and appears to be putting some effort in makes me feel better about the slot, especially with the in depth approach to reading the thread and scum hunting.

Now perhaps I'm wrong for thinking that, but also the way Zorblag is also saying "If I were in town's shoes, I'd have lynched me" is a risky move if Zorblag is scum, because it only takes a few people to take him up on that offer to lynch him. So I don't feel he's scum right now. But I'm not ruling it out.

[Skill006]

Aaah, my long post got deleted because I was mid-typing and then I went to eat dinner TT_TT

I'll admit to not doing so well at making my own cases in D1, but I take mild offense to this.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for you to take offense

I was a little obscure on that. What I said wasn't really clarified, and it made sense in my head, but I realize now that it could be taken either way.

What I meant was that you only stated suspicion on us after Ray and Prana stated their suspicons. Which means that you're only stating suspicion where you think you won't be bombarded for it (like if you went back to zorblag, you would have a harder time then if you're tagging along with ray/prana's suspicions).

Erm, pardon? Either you've not been paying much attention at all to the goings on in this game, or you are deliberately leaving out rather important points there.

...hm? Was it 'points' I was leaving out? Or was it this:

I know I, for a fact, have pulled up jmurph on her "follow the leader" stuff on D1, and I'm also pretty sure Ray has. If you're going to make a pointless comment, at least make sure it's somewhat buried in the realms of reality.

I wasn't saying you didn't say that, I didn't say no one else said that.

Ok maybe I did...imply that or something. I dunno, I just don't see why you're upset.
I was just trying to imply that her play has been far repetitive by now, and as I wasn't really paying much attention to her before, the case on me made it connect more to me and I kinda noticed now. Mmmm...I feel like I'm not finding the right words to explain this...Do you kinda get what I mean?

Oh, and I don't get the "If you're going to make a pointless comment" part. Was it really that pointless

You only played with Ray-scum before, how do you know he plays defensively as scum and town.

I read a game where he was town. They attacked him for the same exact reasons.

[Skill006]

Oh, right. Prana, are you gonna acknowledge my defenses? Like, ever?

[Skill006]

...is phaen coming back?

Either way,

vote:phaen

gogo lynch

[RayFrost]

...is phaen coming back?

Either way,

vote:phaen

gogo lynch

^---- need2die

[RayFrost]

unvote, FoS: Skill

need2votecount

[Zorblag]

@jammer, I'm not eager to be lynched so much as I want the town to be following through with suspicions. An active town that follows through with their leads is much more likely to win the game and less likely to be steered wrong by the mafia. Unless I can see the reasons that I'm not being pressured now I hold anyone who was ready to lynch Apathy yesterday but hasn't been after me as somewhat suspicious. My talk on the subject was mostly to try to draw out those reasons.

@RayFrost, I can accept that you were busy across the site towards the end of the day yesterday but I suppose that what I really don't understand is why you didn't bother bringing up that you thought fuzzylightning wasn't a good lynch in Post 578. Your objection to fuzzylightning being at L-1 was a bit of a surprise to me then. Why not include the fact that you didn't think he was a good lynch in your reasons rather than him not having a chance to defend, not wanting a quick hammer and wanting scum reads. That seems like exactly the sort of place where you'd want to make your feelings known.

@Skill006, was Phaen the number one suspect you were talking about in Post 647? Apparently I think that it's not entirely clear who you had in mind.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RayFrost]

I can't exactly stop a lynch from happening if he gets hammered, can I?

Better to give reasons that make sense before delving into why lynching was a bad idea in the first place.

I have troubles with the whole timing of stuff.

[Zorblag]

@RayFrost, well, I'd say you're less likely to stop a lynch if you don't say that you're opposed to it before it happens but then again, it's not your job to stop the lynch. I'm not sure why that should be a reason not to bring up your opinion on the matter in addition to the other reasons you gave for not liking the L-1 status. Mostly it's curious that you've waited until after the lynch occurred to mention that you oppose it at all.

Why was it exactly that you thought that fuzzylightning wasn't a good lynch?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RayFrost]

very weak meta from a single game with fuzzy-town where he played the same way as here.

[Zorblag]

@RayFrost, perhaps you've already gone over this but have you ever seen him play as scum?

Do you have any reason to believe that he'd change up his day one play as scum in general? It's a pretty good style to have people expect to hide scum play behind.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost, perhaps you've already gone over this but have you ever seen him play as scum?

Do you have any reason to believe that he'd change up his day one play as scum in general? It's a pretty good style to have people expect to hide scum play behind.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I have no experience with him as scum.

Which is why the meta is 'very weak'

[Zorblag]

Hmm, and how strong do you believe that your last case on jammer was? Were my objections to it reasonable or was I misrepresenting either your case or his play (or both) in some way?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RayFrost]

It's reasonable.

[Zorblag]

Mod: Could you please prod Phaen?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[PranaDevil]

Erm, pardon? Either you've not been paying much attention at all to the goings on in this game, or you are deliberately leaving out rather important points there.

...hm? Was it 'points' I was leaving out? Or was it this:

I know I, for a fact, have pulled up jmurph on her "follow the leader" stuff on D1, and I'm also pretty sure Ray has. If you're going to make a pointless comment, at least make sure it's somewhat buried in the realms of reality.

I wasn't saying you didn't say that, I didn't say no one else said that.

You said, and I quote (Again):

However, when I saw her posts, I had the same thought that Zorb had, and that was that she was really playing follow the leader. It's easy to follow the most aggresive person/people, those 2 in particular (prana and ray), as they pass a blind eye to people who follow them (or they appear to, anyway).

What you have stated there is that both myself, and Ray, pass a blind eye to those who follow us. Which is known to be false as jmurph has been pulled up on it by both of us, and so was Apathy. So stating that they we passed a blind eye to her doing so is so blatantly a lie, that I'm surprised not more people have mentioned it by now.

It's also hardly the "same thought that Zorb had" when a fair sized chunk of people acknowledged that fact on Day 1. It's almost like you're starting to come out with some form of aggression as you realized the tide was turning on you due to the fact you hadn't been doing much D1.

But basically, yes, it was a pointless comment because it was going nowhere, it was pretty much solely there to say "yeah, I've seen what you're saying, oh and Prana and Ray never noticed it" despite it being spotted earlier in the game.

As for acknowledging defenses, I see no reason to do so if I also don't feel that they are adequate. There's also the fact I posted those because I was asked to by jmurph to save people tracking back to find them.

However to answer some of your other questions Skill.

Was there a person you didn't have suspicion on? One can spread all of their suspicions around the players and go back on whichever one they want at a convinient time.

Yes, PaltryExcuse I was pretty sure was town, and by the end of the last day I had eased off of Ray, however I kept suspicion on everyone because for one, not only should everyone be suspected in some form (some more than others, sure), and even more so D1 (and after that only investigative roles could really be positive that someone is or isn't town anyway).

However, someone in D1 (Can't remember who, so apologies to whoever did post it) mentioned it was best to not start mentioning loudly who we think is, and isn't, town, outside of specific suspicions, because if everyone has the same agreement of "Player X is town" it pretty much tells mafia who to take out that next night, because we keep someone around who everyone is sure is town? So I wont go announcing exactly who I have town reads on now.

I explained why I didn't vote much. you may consider me on the fuzzy wagon (I said this), even though I wasn't voting him. I said I would vote him. The only reason I didn't was because Zorb had something he seemed to be waiting for.

That's rather... convenient though isn't it? The one and only time you really jump on a bandwagon is one you not only didn't vote in, but one that was as good as a guarenteed lynch anyway. Prior to that point you wanted in on none anyway, and I still don't buy it.

As for the "twisting things above" comment... I link straight back to this post

[Kison]

Day Two: Vote Count

Skill006 (

1

) : PranaDevil
jmurph3 (

1

) : Zorblag
Phaen (

1

) : Skill006

Not Voting (

4

) : Phaen, jammer, jmurph3, RayFrost

With

7

alive, it will take

4

votes to lynch.

The day's deadline is currently set to:

March 23rd, 2010, 11:59:59 PM, EST

Phaen has been prodded.

[RayFrost]

oh, okay.

vote: skill

[jmurph3]

Just want to let you all know that I am going to be gone for the weekend. I will be back on Monday.

[Skill006]

...this is sad.

Me don't like this part:

As for acknowledging defenses, I see no reason to do so if I also don't feel that they are adequate. There's also the fact I posted those because I was asked to by jmurph to save people tracking back to find them.

I'm sorry, but WHY would anyone think like this? By saying my defense isn't adequate, you give yourself a free pass on even acknowledging that my defense exists. By doing this, you don't have to say anything to it. If you didn't think my defense was adequte, why didn't you say why you thought it was inadequate? I feel like you've been intentionally ignoring some of my posts and bringing up other things that are easier for you to attack me with.

That's rather... convenient though isn't it? The one and only time you really jump on a bandwagon is one you not only didn't vote in, but one that was as good as a guarenteed lynch anyway. Prior to that point you wanted in on none anyway, and I still don't buy it.

You're completely wrong on this point. First of all, I was in support of it (by the end). I even posted my thoughts on why I thought he was scummy. AND, I was GOING to vote, however, like I have stressed, troll seemed to be waiting for something before the day ended. Why would a vote matter or not? My thoughts/suspicions were still there.