Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)
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semioldguy Mafia Scum
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When I come to this thread, I am lonely.
@TDC
Why is Dry-Fit scum?
@don_johnson
Sleepless Assassin also seems to be missing. Why is his case the worst in your opinion? Please make comparisons to other bad cases to show why his is worse than other bad cases you see.
@Lowell
Whose vote is the worst right now and why does their vote stink? I feel there are several good candidates for the 'worst vote' award. Choose wisely.
@Dry-Fit
What about SerRose to you indicates that he is not a complete newbie. I disagree with your assertion and think that it is most likely for SerRose to be a complete newbie.
@wdjat
Why is focusing on single piece of bad logic scummier to you than Lowell's being all over the place? If anything, I find the tunneling on bad logic not to be a tell if the poster does not see the bad logic behind his line of inquiry and currently get a feeling of disinterested town from Sleepless Assassin.
@ConfidAnon
Is there anything from your predecessor that you are in agreement with?
@SerRose
Why did you assume that my initial vote on you was to get you lynched at all rather than to just participate? Are you going to do something or take a stance on your own without my having to ask you a question about it first? Also, if you change your avatar to something that doesn't have Mr. Bean on it, I will switch my vote to wdjat.
@Sleepless Assassin
I have a good town feeling about ConfidAnon and the player he replaced. If you had to make a second choice right now, who would it be?
I expect to have something better to read tomorrow at work than I did today.I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own.-
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don_johnson Jack of All Trades
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odd. never said their were any "bad" cases. just that sleepless had the worst. worst olympian on the podium is still pretty good, so whatever. read into it what you like. he voted ness with weak reasoning. now he pushes suspicion on confid with weak reasoning. he's making the worst cases. of course, i do need to reread the last couple of pages, but noone else is sticking out to me yet.semioldguy wrote:
@don_johnson
Sleepless Assassin also seems to be missing. Why is his case the worst in your opinion? Please make comparisons to other bad cases to show why his is worse than other bad cases you see.
122: semi was my random vote. had to unvote to drop my first serious one.
offering suggestions is far from "directing". i am confident that power roles can make up their own minds. i was more alluding to the fact that it is not in town's best interest to lynch a player who is ultimately null tell. null tell players are better targeted with night actions. doesn't make a difference what set-up you are in.dry-fit wrote:Any perticular reason you're directing power roles, DJ?town 39-32
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semioldguy Mafia Scum
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"Bad" is more of a relative term. There must be some hierarchy to the cases in the game. Maybe they are all excellent cases (I don't think they are necessarily so in this game), but some are always going to be worse than others.
If you don't think there are any truly bad cases in this game, pick another case that you feel is low on the relative hierarchy and explain why that case is better than Sleepless Assassin's. (Basically I'm asking for a comparison of any two cases as long as one of them is Sleepless Assassin's, pointing out what you like or don't like about the cases as to make a contrast to one another)
I'll of course allow for a re-read of the last several pages.I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own.-
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don_johnson Jack of All Trades
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not really sure what you're asking here. you just double voted serrose. obviously, you think your case is good. i need to read it before i agree, but why do you need me to compare it to SA's vote if ytou are so sure of it that you double voted? do you think SA is playing well? i guess i just don't understand why you are defending him.town 39-32
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semioldguy Mafia Scum
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I am curious and just want to see your point of view/train of thought on the matter. I am neither defending him or attacking him as of this point. He is very middle of the road for me. There are players I find scummier, and there are players I find more likely to be town.I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own.-
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Dry-fit Mafia Scum
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Well, mainly the fact that he signed up for an open in his first game and understood the queue system. Also reading his posts I just had the feeling he had played before. One way to find out.semioldguy wrote:@Dry-Fit
What about SerRose to you indicates that he is not a complete newbie. I disagree with your assertion and think that it is most likely for SerRose to be a complete newbie.
@SerRose: What is your previous experience playing mafia, if any.
What do you mean "null tell players?"don_johnson wrote:i was more alluding to the fact that it is not in town's best interest to lynch a player who is ultimately null tell. null tell players are better targeted with night actions.
@Mod: Can we get prods on Sleepless Assassin and SerRose?Andy Murray: Two time Wimbledon and one time US Open Champ! Former world number 1!
C'mon Andy!-
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don_johnson Jack of All Trades
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at the time SA voted, we were still in a seeming joke vote stage. there wasn't much going on. he switched his random vote to what i can only assume was a serious vote with poor(and piggybacked) reasoning. hence, at that time it was the "worst" case in my mind. it also seemed like joke vote # 2, which would be alright on page 1 or 2, but i believe he was attempting to leave the RVS which is what makes it a bad vote. until he returns and participates i see no reason to move my vote at this time.
dry-fit: null tell means you can't read a player. they appear as neither scum nor town.town 39-32
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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This looks kind of like you are voting just because you were pressured to name a suspect.ConfidAnon wrote:
I really don't understand her read. If I could lynch one person, it would be . . . Lowell, because of the following quoted post.Wdjat, 85 wrote:Any thoughts on the read she had? I mean, there's nothing else to talk about in regards to nessarae56.
If you could lynch one person right now, who would it be and why?
Admittedly, this could easily be a simple mistake . . . but it's better than nothing.Lowell, 87 wrote:unvote
sorry wasn't paying attention, didn't realize that was L-1. Just felt like a good bandwagon.
Unvote, Vote: Lowell
That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.
Is this supposed to be me?don_johnson wrote:unvote, vote: sleepless in seattle
2 seems to restate my point and I agree with 3.Lowell wrote:unvote, vote confid
Three reasons:
1) OMGUS
2) His passing mention of his predecessor's play is strange. It's like he wanted to cut off a potential liability (if there was one) before anyone could bring it up. His staged diplomacy in the process and in the post after is basically useless.
3) He's made an "anyone here?" post, but hasn't followed up with anything to get the game moving, other than a spiritless attack on someone (me), which he quickly caveats by saying it could be nothing. Kind of an... obvious thing to say. Like a cheap out to be used later on if needed.
(Bolding mine) Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.Wdjat wrote: Looking at the other folks in the game, I'm not too keen on the way Sleepless Assassin was leaning on ConfidAnon to speculate on nessarae56's alignment. Claiming this speculation wouldn't be awkward is pretty disingenuous. It wouldn't be hard to turn anything ConfidAnon said on the subject into a reason to vote for him. By this logic, Lowell's reason's for voting ConfidAnon aren't great either, but Lowell's been kinda all over the place.Sleepless Assassin's focus on a single bad piece of logic is scummier to me.
vote: Sleepless Assassin
Probably TDC. I don't have more of a case than gut though. If we got a town flip from Confid, I'd say Lowell because he's scummy, but isn't Confid's scumbuddy. Maybe don too. Everyone else, I'm confident is town except maybe Dry-Fit who I have a town read on but that's kind of a weak read.semioldguy wrote: @Sleepless Assassin
I have a good town feeling about ConfidAnon and the player he replaced. If you had to make a second choice right now, who would it be?
When did I random vote?don_johnson wrote:at the time SA voted, we were still in a seeming joke vote stage. there wasn't much going on. he switched his random vote to what i can only assume was a serious vote with poor(and piggybacked) reasoning.
Also, I disagree about my reasoning being weak. And I didn't piggyback anyone. I think for myself most of the time.
I never even made joke vote 1, so how could I make a second? And how can you call my vote on Nessa both a joke vote and a serious vote. It's one or the other. Either there is a reason for it (there was) or there isn't. You can't have both.Don wrote:hence, at that time it was the "worst" case in my mind. it also seemed like joke vote # 2, which would be alright on page 1 or 2, but i believe he was attempting to leave the RVS which is what makes it a bad vote.
And what is wrong with leaving the RVS?
Hi.Don wrote:until he returns and participates i see no reason to move my vote at this time.-
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Meji Fan Goon
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don_johnson Jack of All Trades
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^^ this is a horrendous false dichotomy. please explain.Sleepless Assassin wrote:
That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.
2 is null tell. it is in a townies best interest to separate themselves from their predecessors play if it is, in fact, questionable. nothing wrong with three. there is not much activity here, you say agree with a contradiction. "he hasn't followed up with anything". wrong. a spiritless attack is still something.sleepy wrote:
2 seems to restate my point and I agree with 3.Lowell wrote:unvote, vote confid
Three reasons:
1) OMGUS
2) His passing mention of his predecessor's play is strange. It's like he wanted to cut off a potential liability (if there was one) before anyone could bring it up. His staged diplomacy in the process and in the post after is basically useless.
3) He's made an "anyone here?" post, but hasn't followed up with anything to get the game moving, other than a spiritless attack on someone (me), which he quickly caveats by saying it could be nothing. Kind of an... obvious thing to say. Like a cheap out to be used later on if needed.
a nice summary of the case would be helpful.sleepyhead wrote:
Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.
you voted lowell with no posted reasoning. never explained why you switched your vote off him and it occurred during the RVS. i consider that "random". not by the strict definition of the word, but i loathe semantics arguments. if it wasn't random/joke, then what was it?semioldguy wrote:
When did I random vote?
you capitalized on wdjat's pressure. hence, piggybacking. then you push suspicion at wdjat directly after lowell votes him in post 57/58.sleep apnea wrote:Also, I disagree about my reasoning being weak. And I didn't piggyback anyone. I think for myself most of the time.
i didn't call your nessa vote a joke vote. if it is a joke vote, please say so. if its not, then your reasoning is poor. again, how do you classify your first vote of the game? what caused you to unvote that player? please don't argue semantics of the words "joke" and "random".sleepwalker wrote:
I never even made joke vote 1, so how could I make a second? And how can you call my vote on Nessa both a joke vote and a serious vote. It's one or the other. Either there is a reason for it (there was) or there isn't. You can't have both.
nothing. is that what you were doing? if so, then you have to concede that your first vote was random/joke. so please, explain further.assman wrote:And what is wrong with leaving the RVS?town 39-32
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don_johnson Jack of All Trades
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semioldguy Mafia Scum
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semioldguy Mafia Scum
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Wdjat Goon
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Part of the Sleepless Assassin over Lowell vote has to do with the context of Lowell's play and what other people have said about him. His posting style is consistent with someone who doesn't post often enough and doesn't read closely enough when he does post, so him being all over the place means less to me coming from him.semioldguy wrote:@wdjat
Why is focusing on single piece of bad logic scummier to you than Lowell's being all over the place? If anything, I find the tunneling on bad logic not to be a tell if the poster does not see the bad logic behind his line of inquiry and currently get a feeling of disinterested town from Sleepless Assassin.
Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him. By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town. I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.mecha shiva! mecha shiva!-
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Wdjat Goon
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Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?Sleepless Assassin wrote:
(Bolding mine) Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.Wdjat wrote: Looking at the other folks in the game, I'm not too keen on the way Sleepless Assassin was leaning on ConfidAnon to speculate on nessarae56's alignment. Claiming this speculation wouldn't be awkward is pretty disingenuous. It wouldn't be hard to turn anything ConfidAnon said on the subject into a reason to vote for him. By this logic, Lowell's reason's for voting ConfidAnon aren't great either, but Lowell's been kinda all over the place.Sleepless Assassin's focus on a single bad piece of logic is scummier to me.
vote: Sleepless Assassinmecha shiva! mecha shiva!-
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Meji Fan Goon
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SerRose
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SerRose Townie
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unvote
@semi
No, I cannot be sure of your intention, whether to get me lynched or prodding me towards participation. But what you've done is a viable strategy for Mafias. Pointing to an inactive player puting everyone's focus on him. Even if I died and turned townie nobody else would suspect you solely because of this incident. This way, the Mafia can avoid lynching and suspicion going into the first night phase.
Even so, suspecting you because of the above reason is still nothing but speculation and you have a very good point that me being inactive is anti-town. I concede that my reasoning for voting you is weak and in fact, your hand in the generation of activities this game is a good reason not to vote for you.
@dry-fit
Previous experience: 10+ times during various occasions, with friends sitting in a circle. No experience in forum game
To confid:
What is your read on Lowell after his post against you?-
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SerRose Townie
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SerRose Townie
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Dry-fit Mafia Scum
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Care to elaborate on this now?semioldguy wrote:Wdjat is currently the next best lynch after SerRose in my opinion.
That's what I thought. Just because you aren't able to read him, why does that make you think the rest of us can't?don_johnson wrote:dry-fit: null tell means you can't read a player. they appear as neither scum nor town.Andy Murray: Two time Wimbledon and one time US Open Champ! Former world number 1!
C'mon Andy!-
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TDC Mafia Scum
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Is he?semioldguy wrote: @TDC
Why is Dry-Fit scum?
Or is that just a cheap shot at my still active random vote?
Anyway,unvote.
I don't know. I think if he understood the queue system he would've signed up for a newbie game..Dry-fit wrote:Well, mainly the fact that he signed up for an open in his first game and understood the queue system.
I could see where you're coming from if you could show how that vote is bad.Sleepless Assassin wrote:This looks kind of like you are voting just because you were pressured to name a suspect.
I mean if it's a good vote, then it could just be a good vote that would've come anyway.
I can totally see how Lowell would make that mistake, but I don't think it's that outrageous to vote him for it as you would imply.
Obviously, scum would never vote their buddies. Didn't you know?don_johnson wrote:
^^ this is a horrendous false dichotomy. please explain.Sleepless Assassin wrote:
That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.
I would probably have made that post had it not already been there. CA's awkwardness towards his former self was certainly good enough to poke into at that early point.Wdjat wrote:Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him. By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town. I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.-
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TDC Mafia Scum
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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Well, it looked like scum trying to find somewhere to put a vote. I was thinking that he'd only do it on town, but looking at how weak of a vote it is, it doesn't put much pressure on Lowell or make him more likely of a lynch, so I think I was a little quick to judge that.don_johnson wrote:
^^ this is a horrendous false dichotomy. please explain.Sleepless Assassin wrote:
That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.
I disagree. No, I wouldn't go back and say "this is scummy" or "this isn't" about a player who I am replacing, but I don't think I'd feel "awkward" or nervous about it, which is what I see from Confid. I'd at least be willing to look and see why people see what they do. I've never replaced anyone in a game, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but that just looks scummy to me and I suspected the player he replaced anyway.Donny Boy wrote:
2 is null tell. it is in a townies best interest to separate themselves from their predecessors play if it is, in fact, questionable. nothing wrong with three. there is not much activity here, you say agree with a contradiction. "he hasn't followed up with anything". wrong. a spiritless attack is still something.sleepy wrote:
2 seems to restate my point and I agree with 3.Lowell wrote:unvote, vote confid
Three reasons:
1) OMGUS
2) His passing mention of his predecessor's play is strange. It's like he wanted to cut off a potential liability (if there was one) before anyone could bring it up. His staged diplomacy in the process and in the post after is basically useless.
3) He's made an "anyone here?" post, but hasn't followed up with anything to get the game moving, other than a spiritless attack on someone (me), which he quickly caveats by saying it could be nothing. Kind of an... obvious thing to say. Like a cheap out to be used later on if needed.
The way she came into the game didn't read as "who looks scummy and who doesn't?". It was more "who looks like an easy target". I know she didn't directly vote someone for being an easy target, but the fact that what she talked about was easy targets rubs me the wrong way. Then she left this game about as fast as a white boy's bike leaves the Bronx at night.Doe Boy Donnie wrote:
a nice summary of the case would be helpful.sleepyhead wrote:
Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.
His "unlynchable" comment was something I didn't like. I asked if TDC was his scumbuddy because of the joke-vote, quick change, and mention of an anti-town meta which actually protects him in a way because more things can be written off as "anti-town" or "oh, Lowell always does this".Long Johnson wrote:
you voted lowell with no posted reasoning. never explained why you switched your vote off him and it occurred during the RVS. i consider that "random". not by the strict definition of the word, but i loathe semantics arguments. if it wasn't random/joke, then what was it?semioldguy wrote:
When did I random vote?
Post 35, Nessa catches my attention. I see it as scummy, but wait for an explanation before acting.LongSchlongJohnson wrote:
you capitalized on wdjat's pressure. hence, piggybacking. then you push suspicion at wdjat directly after lowell votes him in post 57/58.sleep apnea wrote:Also, I disagree about my reasoning being weak. And I didn't piggyback anyone. I think for myself most of the time.
Post 36, she responds scummily to my question.
Post 37, wdjat starts to question Nessa.
Post 39, I vote Nessa and ask Wdjat if he has scumbuddies.
Nessa is scummy in 46/47 and needs to die.
53 is where Wdjat really adds pressure. By this point, I've already started to question Nessa and voted her.
So did my case on Nessa benefit from Wdjat's pressure? Probably. Did I only vote Nessa because of it? No. Nessa was scummy, so I voted. Wdjat must have seen the same thing as I did, which is not uncommon.
And I didn't point suspicion at Wdjat in Post 58. I said that his way of thinking is wrong, also not uncommon for townies. I think Wdjat is town, so saying that I've pointed suspicion at him is either misinterpretation or a misrep. Lucky for you, I think you just misunderstood me.
My first vote was a serious vote, although I admit I didn't have much on Lowell. I unvoted because there was a stronger vote to be made.Heeeere's Donny wrote:
i didn't call your nessa vote a joke vote. if it is a joke vote, please say so. if its not, then your reasoning is poor. again, how do you classify your first vote of the game? what caused you to unvote that player? please don't argue semantics of the words "joke" and "random".sleepwalker wrote:
I never even made joke vote 1, so how could I make a second? And how can you call my vote on Nessa both a joke vote and a serious vote. It's one or the other. Either there is a reason for it (there was) or there isn't. You can't have both.
Trust me, I'll be the LAST person to try arguing semantics with you.
No, I didn't jokevote. But I don't like the RVS, which is what I was saying.Son of a DonJohn wrote:
nothing. is that what you were doing? if so, then you have to concede that your first vote was random/joke. so please, explain further.assman wrote:And what is wrong with leaving the RVS?
Gotcha.GuyWithAnUnoriginalName wrote:ebwop: the semi quote is not semi. please attribute it to "sleepygaspasser".
He reads as a confused newbie trying to help the town, but unfortunately failing miserably.semioldguy wrote:@Sleepless Assassin
What about SerRose gives you a such a confident town read on him?
Oh, no, confusion isn't the case on Nessa at all. Read up in this post and maybe you'll see what I was looking at.Wdjat wrote: Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him.
And if you want to call scummy actions excuses, then yes, I'll find excuses to lynch anyone who is scummy.
He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.Wdjat wrote:By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town.
I don't think my logic is flawed at all.Wdjat wrote:I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.
Nothing. I didn't ask him to. Someone else did and his response caught my eye.Wdjat wrote:Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?
It's not even about the quality of the vote. It's the fact that he was JUST pressured to actually add something useful to the game and, like magic, pulls a little baby rabbit out of a hat with a vote on Lowell. And who knows, maybe it'll grow up to be the Easter Bunny and Lowell will be scum, but it just looked like a way to make himself look better.TDC wrote:I could see where you're coming from if you could show how that vote is bad.
I mean if it's a good vote, then it could just be a good vote that would've come anyway.
I can totally see how Lowell would make that mistake, but I don't think it's that outrageous to vote him for it as you would imply.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Sleepless Assassin Mafia Scum
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