Mini 930:Morning People Mafia (Game Over!)

[fallen angel]

Hi everybody,

Vote: water_foul

because he needs to explain to me why Canadian geese poop so much on my lawn.

[fallen angel]

Vote: Deer

for me replacing him in a game and given 2 days to defend myself as the most obvious lynch candidate, then getting lynched.

Just btw, I can kinda be a morning person, can't sleep past 9 or so if im tired and go to bed late, usually up between 7 to 8 otherwise :p

May I inquire as to the game out of curiosity and meta?

[fallen angel]

I want to know what the symbol means.

Ironically enough, it means "g'morning".

So, we caught scum already?

[fallen angel]

Bah.

Mod, can you fix my

awful awful

posts with screwed up

and stupid

tags? Much obliged

my lord

.

Syke: Fixed, both posts... this one too

[fallen angel]

I'll go next.

Who else hates RVS?

I do. Intensely.

Actually, I don't mind it. It's good for things like finding patterns, looking for bandwagons and attempted quicklynches, and basically just a way to get to know other players before it starts.

Vote: Deer for me replacing him in a game and given 2 days to defend myself as the most obvious lynch candidate, then getting lynched.

Just btw, I can kinda be a morning person, can't sleep past 9 or so if im tired and go to bed late, usually up between 7 to 8 otherwise :p

May I inquire as to the game out of curiosity and meta?

Sure, it's a newbie game, and Deer replaced in for someone else too, just btw. It's not done yet, so I can't say much else, but here you go. To be honest I figured that my slot was the best vote before realizing that it was the role I was replacing lol.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=850

In that case, we really shouldn't discuss it. Talking about ongoing games is a no-no.

[fallen angel]

Excuse my double posting, but

ZZZZZZ ZZZ ZZZZZZZZ

Bit of a slow start.

In the interest of conversation...does anyone have any favorite questions they like to ask others to break the ice/scumhunt in the early stages of games? And if so...what are they and how would you answer them?

I'll go first.

Not really. n/a

I do, actually. What's everyone's favorite role? Playstyle? If so for either, then why? Any previous games? Links, please, if so? Hopefully this'll start some discussion.

I'll post links for my previous games when I find them. I have kind of an erratic playstyle, it tends to vary from game to game and role to role. My favorite role is any scum except Godfather. I like the deception involved, and I like the sense of getting away with something and defending myself. I'm not as strong a scumhunter as others, and so when I'm scum (and have meta to back me up) I can pose as town pretty well. I also like being a vanilla townie for the lack of any resources other then logic and skill. Nothing in the night phase to do other then analyze and read and think.

[fallen angel]

I do, actually. What's everyone's favorite role? Playstyle? If so for either, then why? Any previous games? Links, please, if so?

Not sure...only non-VT roles (out of 8 or 9 games) have been replacing in as a seer and replacing in as a mafia roleblocker (both in D2 iirc). Seer was ok (caught a werewolf but lost the game) and mafia was fun but stressful (but resulted in a win). Getting a bit frustrated with all the VT roles. I would like to give mafia a try again...especially from the start of a game as it was exciting to evade town yet interesting to see people make right and wrong assumptions during the game. Playstyle is an OODA loop. Previous games can be googled

Links, if you have them? Also, why is VT frustrating?

My favorite role is Vanilla Townie. And it will remain my favorite role until I can survive until endgame as such. My playstyle is...erratic, tbqh. I never know what I'm going to do until I do it.

Any particular reason why? Haha, that sounds like my playstyle too. Aww, ongoing games means no meta or ability to ask about power or anti-town roles. [/quote]

[fallen angel]

Ah, my mistake. I missed the "previous games can be googled".

*facepalm* Sorry.

[fallen angel]

Actually, I don't mind it. It's good for things like finding patterns, looking for bandwagons and attempted quicklynches, and basically just a way to get to know other players before it starts.

If the voting is, in fact, random. How exactly does it give you useful patterns? The bandwagoning that happens due to RVS is usually, as far as I've seen, just done to spark up more conversation, and is oftentimes done by pro-town figures as well as scum. Do you really think scum will attempt to quick lynch with a random bandwagon?

At first, yes, it is totally random. But when someone flips scum (or a scummy player flips town, etc.) if you look back at the RVS, you can see some patterns. If two people continually and blatantly try to distance themselves from the other, even in the RVS, they might be scumbuddies. Stuff like that. And no, they wouldn't, but scum may hop on a bandwagon early in an attempt to not only appear original and incriminate other players by accusing them of bandwagoning later on, but also in hopes of something solid coming up later.

I do, actually. What's everyone's favorite role? Playstyle? If so for either, then why? Any previous games? Links, please, if so? Hopefully this'll start some discussion. Wink

I've only played in newbie games and one normal games so my experience with roles is really limited. The two games I was scum in were exceedingly stressful and the one cop game I got was an utter fail. So for now, I guess my answer would be vanilla townie. Though I've been reading up on more normals lately and it sounds rather fun to play a mason.

Masons are fun, and also fairly useful. Newbie games, although limited in roles, are good experience with the basics, and not a lot of setups use anything much more complicated. Some have vigs and stuff, but I haven't seen many setups that differ too far from newbie, just more players.

My previous games are in my wiki. As for play style.. Uh...I type a lot?

Any particular scumhunting techniques you use a lot?

Fallen - How experienced are you with mafia?

Sorta? I've played for a year and a half, although I took a break from this site. When I first started I played a bunch of games here (check my signature), but have more experience with face-to-face.

Just as a heads up, I tend to bold or color my text and just put it inside other's quotes. I hate using multiple quote tags, since I suck at it.

[fallen angel]

Yes, well. There's at least discussion going on.

Also, for those who are interested- http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... llen_angel

It needs updating, but meh.

And just for the sake of discussion or something, if I appear to be playing well (well, scumhunting properly, anyway), that probably means I'm scum.

[fallen angel]

Unvote

I'm gonna guess that there are one or more scum voting Deer, so I'm tempted to put him at L-1. Unfortunately, that's major wifom and also not worth the gambit so early in the game (especially D1). Bah.

[fallen angel]

Incidentally I HATE META AND THINK IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. SERIOUSLY JUST TAKE THE GAME AS IT IS.

Oh, but it isn't. Meta (at least with players that have played multiple roles) can show how people behave as town, as scum, and occasionally as third party players (serial killers and such). Meta is a useful tool and should be taken advantage of, seeing as we're at D1 and have nothing else to go on.

[fallen angel]

*shrug* It's true. I have nothing to hide and no reason not to admit it. The one time I played well as town I tunnel-visioned until I was satisfied that the person I suspected wasn't scum. I'm not the strongest scumhunter. However, I don't lurk. Ever.

[fallen angel]

Deer, how do you feel about the three votes on you?

[fallen angel]

Do you think any scum are on said wagon? And yes, it is quite ridiculous to want a player lynched so soon. Also, since I feel the gambit is worthwhile,

Vote Deer

. Now we wait.

[fallen angel]

Allow me to explain myself without breaking the gambit. To lynch a player so soon is madness. Thus, the closer Deer is to danger, the farther he is from harm.

/paraphrasing the Lord of the Rings

[fallen angel]

No, I'm not pushing for a claim. Explaining the gambit effectively makes it fail. I'll explain once I see the results. Anyway, scum suspects (who are they)?

[fallen angel]

Ah, don't worry. The problem with any gambit is that if it's explained, scum know what to do to look pro-town. If it isn't explained, it looks scummy as hell and fails. This is what I consider a happy medium. Hopefully.

[fallen angel]

Incidentally I HATE META AND THINK IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. SERIOUSLY JUST TAKE THE GAME AS IT IS.

Oh, but it isn't. Meta (at least with players that have played multiple roles) can show how people behave as town, as scum, and occasionally as third party players (serial killers and such). Meta is a useful tool and should be taken advantage of, seeing as we're at D1 and have nothing else to go on.

Yes, but it makes the game soooooooo much less fun.

How?

Do you think any scum are on said wagon? And yes, it is quite ridiculous to want a player lynched so soon. Also, since I feel the gambit is worthwhile,

Vote Deer

. Now we wait.

Shouldn't you like, not talk about the gambit if you're trying to pull it off? cause now scum are on their toes.

Yes, but I need to for a few reasons. If I don't at least explain there *is* a gambit and I'm not pushing for a quicklynch, it fails. And if they are on their toes, good. They still don't know what to be worried about.

[fallen angel]

A) I suppose, although scumhunting = work as well.
B) Oh, I'm just warming up

[fallen angel]

ok, sorry ,for some reason i thought it didnt post so i wrote it again, then saw teh 3 pages...i feel stupid

Have you read the past few pages? If so, any comments?

[fallen angel]

Okay, so he's back at L-1. rzhang86, why are you voting deer?

[fallen angel]

I'll explain my reasoning. Just, I can't right now.

[fallen angel]

Hmm.

Unvote Deer

. The idea behind putting Deer at (originally, before the unvote) was to catch everyone off guard. If someone jumped off the second I put deer so close to a lynch, I'd lean towards them being town. If anybody simply ignored it and pretended that there wasn't about to be a player lynched D1, I'd assume they're scum or at least not pro-town. If anyone actually quicklynched, obvscum. It didn't work for a few reasons, unfortunately, although I am pretty convinced of rzhang's scumminess. I'll do a full reread when I have time.

[fallen angel]

That was me my friend and FA didn't vote for him, I did and as I said it was

I don't believe I ever claimed he did. I was questioning FA's statement about hang's action being scummy versus newb given his statement: "although I am pretty convinced of rzhang's scumminess"

I can't picture a true town player saying "Well, I'm going to vote the one person with multiple votes on him without providing any reasoning." How could that come off as town at all?

Also, I'm a bit confused why I'm being voted or considered a suspect? There seems to be a bit of confusion as to who said what, and it would make it a great deal easier to explain myself if presented with a clear case. Kthanxbai.

[fallen angel]

HoS rzhang86.

He voted to help my gambit, which he claims was half-assed and I shouldn't have told people. He wanted me to look bad by not explaining at least partially what I was doing, but wants to take credit for trying to be helpful. He acts overly defensive while saying others should be willing to take risks. He makes my scum radar go nuts. Maybe he is newb-town, but god... His defense makes very little sense to me, and he seems overly cautious. He's taking more credit then he should for actions that did basically nothing. Not willing to vote until I know how many he already has on him (given the confusion with incorrect vote counts) and I want the day to go on as long as possible, but I'm not liking him at the moment.

[fallen angel]

also, i asked about whether people will agree not to hammer before the suspect is able to say everything he has to say, because it is an element i would like to add to the "field" of this game.

the game starts with an empty field, everybody knows the same things (which is nothing) and all decisions are random. the game only gets going when elements have been added to the field that can be analyzed and attacked or defended, and that can begin to guide people to think or do something non-random. i am just doing that, adding elements to the field, so that maybe we can skip the random stage as quickly as possible because it was looking like it would take a long time in this particular game. so far, my only goal was to be a catalyst of the game itself rather than a player of my particular role. you can take that knowledge of what my goal was and try to apply it to what my role is if you really want to, but your read of me would would really be random... because i stepped outside of my role for a while to try and accelerate the game (think of it as if you were playing a computer game and you "stepped out" of the game for a bit to type in a cheat code that gets you to the next level because this level was boring).

now, i am playing my role and defending myself. i knew full well that i was also putting myself out there as an element in the field that could be attacked (and also defended). my defense is that, i was trying to accelerate the game irrespective of my particular role in the game, and i did so in a way that i thought was relatively safe because it would be very nooby and stupid to vote Deer to L-1 actually expecting to lynch Deer in the context of the game at that time. i hope i have demonstrated myself to not be nooby or stupid, and if you can accept that then hopefully it will follow that my voting Deer to L-1 was a null tell (not pro-town, not anti-town, just a null tell).

I'm not sure what you're smoking... but regardless, it's an unwritten rule of mafia not to hammer when someone is at l-1 until they can post/defend themself...

'Specially not before a claim.

[fallen angel]

What I mean is that everyone should be allowed to claim. That's an unwritten rule. Also, if you're town, DO NOT FAKECLAIM. That just hurts the town and is one of the worst moves you can make. But it is an unwritten rule that people at L-1 should get the chance to claim and defend themselves, and anyone that goes for the quicklynch before then can should be lynched, or at the very least questioned a lot.

[fallen angel]

Oops, ninja'd by Deer. Post 101 directed at rzhang.

[fallen angel]

The not fakeclaiming also falls under "lynch all liars," a strategy I happen to agree with.

Me too. Lying is basically as antitown as it gets. A real townie has nothing to hide, so why lie?

[fallen angel]

HoS rzhang86.

He's taking more credit then he should for actions that did basically nothing.

if you really think my actions did nothing, then why has it become the center of discussion?

Probably because you've inadvertently made everyone think you're scum. Just saying.

i did not take credit for your gambit and your actions. but i do take credit for my part, voting to L-1 (which, i dont mean this in an offensive way, you did not do and which is quite different from voting to L-2). and yes i am taking credit for getting the game going, a direct consequence of my L-1 vote. i give you credit for seeding the first interesting thing to happen in this game, and i take credit for making it flower.

Well, of course I didn't do it, after I saw the vote count was messed up. You think that bothers me? Of course not. But what did you do? Follow a failed gambit that you try to distance yourself from later? Nice.

i mean honestly, if you just dont believe me then there is nothing i can do, if i am lynched then so be it i have explained basically everything i have to say about it. analyze it and make your best judgements. i am playing this game to have fun, and the real fun is here, not in the random voting stage.

Why would we lynch you now? There isn't enough proof, nor has it been long enough. Fearmongering and paranoia much?

the random voting stage in my other game on this site lasted several long days and the game was so slow and went nowhere, and only picked up when a scum actually got so bored he left the game and was replaced, and the replacement made a stupid slip because he hadnt carefully read all the barren long pages thus far.

Shh. It's ongoing.

you can read my other game if you want, its all true. everything ive done so far has been in efforts to take the aspects of my previous game that i didnt like and better them here.

i think i have been very forthright and thorough, and also plausible to any reasonable person, in my explanations thus far.

The not fakeclaiming also falls under "lynch all liars," a strategy I happen to agree with.

Me too. Lying is basically as antitown as it gets. A real townie has nothing to hide, so why lie?

broadly speaking yes townies shouldnt lie, but dont you think it is naive to say that there is never a circumstance in which it can be helpful to town if a townie lies?

No. Never. Lying is *only* ever going to be anti-town.

[fallen angel]

The thing is, rzhang, your explanations have not been about why you are town and not scum. That's what this game is about. No one cares if your actions started discussion in the game - it's not a viable defense.

maybe, just maybe, it is because i obviously cant defend that i am town at this point? i mean honestly, what am i going to base it on, the random voting stage before this... because that was the only thing that has happened before this...

like i said, the field was empty. i have nothing to point at with which to defend myself.

i can only explain why i did what i did, i have no evidence to show that it was pro-town (and i even stated that it was not pro-town, it was a neutral action). yes it is a viable defense, because it explains my actions. im sorry i cannot explain why i am pro-town at this point. seriously, can anyone else give evidence that they are pro-town at this point?

please dont ask such loaded questions its really not good form

If you really were town, why give up? You do realize that's not good for the town, right?

[fallen angel]

@syke, can we get an official vote count asap?

Seconded.

[fallen angel]

*sigh* I meant you're actions did nothing to help my plan. It honestly hurt it, seeing as all attention was drawn towards you afterwards, so nothing was gained.

I get that. But you're saying that you're neutral. If you are town, instead of focusing on that, try and redeem yourself instead of saying "Well, I can't prove it to you." You aren't getting lynched within the next real-life day or more, (at least, not if the town has *any* commons sense), so get out of the hole you dug. I meant giving up on anything useful. All you're doing is saying "I'm not scum but I can't prove it. Oh, and I did everything useful with FA's gambit."

Nope. I'm just trying to figure out how you think you're helping in the least bit.

[fallen angel]

Okay, it seems at least a bit antitown to say that you don't care how helpful you are in everyone's eyes, because you'd rather that they feel you aren't scummy. If you are truly town, you realize the way to appear as such is make useful contributions, right? I don't like this "I'm helping but you don't know it and I don't know if I can prove it" thought process. Waiting on votecount before I do anything...

Mod, votecount? Please?

[fallen angel]

Will respond to all the other stuff in a bit, but I'm kinda short on time. So only gonna comment on post 133 for now. The hammer is basically just the nail in the coffin. If anything, the first vote is stating most intent to lynch a player, instead of just bandwagoning or finishing off the imminent lynch. It's also pretty stupid to put someone at L-1 without a reason. I mean, seriously. Especially if you're town. How does it *help* the town?

[fallen angel]

I apologize for the delay. Will post as soon as I can. >.<

[fallen angel]

Interesting.

Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

This is the second wagon you’ve jumped on, and I don’t like it one bit.

Without talking about the actual events of an ongoing game I’ve been reading, Rzhang seems to always be a very erratic, noobish player. In other words, an easy lynch.

The first wagon I was on was during RVS, and while i does not clear me as a townie, I unvoted early on the Deer wagon, in the midst of the gambit. If I had been mafia, then couldn't I have just left my vote on and hoped for a mislynch early on?

Wifom isn't a defensive. Also, posting soon.

[fallen angel]

I know it is WIFOM, but it is true that the mafia will stay in a situation if it would benefit them. Staying on at that point would benefit the mafia and hope it goes through. That much is true.

And.....wait for it... more wifom. Saying "the mafia would do it cause it would benefit them but I didn't because I'm not mafia" is just total wifom. There's not even a shred of a strong defense in there.