Mini 909: Nice'n'Fun Mafia (Game Over)

[cruelty]

lol.


now i'm tunneling two people. is that even possible?

you're misrepping what i'm saying about you by dismissing it as more of the same (tunneling). quite obviously, ONE post detailing my suspicion of you is not tunneling, not even close. to call it such is, in my mind, scummy in and of itself, which strengthens my suspicion (which, i suppose, will somewhat ironically result in more "tunneling"). for now though, i'm doing exactly what's been asked of me (looking at other people) and you're trying to paint it in a scummy light.


you're probably scum.

[EdFrost]

wait, when did RC claim?

Am I blind or did he not actually claim?

~ F

[cruelty]

Yeah, that's no problem. I'm just a 'nilla townie.

Middle of 612.

[Cruciare]

Thanks to Snow White who will be replacing The Tracker as soon as she posts! (And thanks to Hoopla for getting her to replace in while I'm sporadically disappearing from MafiaScum. =P)

Vote Count

cruelty (1)

hitogoroshi

Not Voting (7)

RedCoyote, Nachomamma8, Hoopla, cruelty, Faraday, EdFrost, Snow White

With eight alive, it takes five to bury alive.

[Snow White]

Yes. Hoopla is the awesome.

Reading and compiling notes.

Love Snow White.

[RedCoyote]

So I guess Nacho is sticking around then? If so, thanks! Thanks to Snow White for replacing, too!

Let me make a new post, gimme a few minutes.

[RedCoyote]

We're a firefighter. Each night we can protect somebody from being targeted by an Arsonist if there's one in the game. Basically an Arsonist doctor. My thoughts on an SK being in the game similarly align to my thoughts of an SK being in the game.

Assuming this claim is genuine (which I'm leaning towards yes), then I see no reason to doubt your thoughts, Ed.

This would be a good fake claim to make though, imo. With the way the setup is kind of playing out, this would be a perfect claim. Still, I don't think I'm willing to push that. Like I said earlier, I think Ed (incidentally, I'm not discounting your contributions, Ray, I just like to abbrevate names, lol) made me feel real good about him being town when he went analyzed the setup and how it relates to Vi. It could've been easy for him to just say, "hmmm... Hoopla seems real and look at the way RC is attacking her. He is probably scum". When he took the time to explain why it was Hoopla's claim was more believable than not, I thought that was definitely pro-town.

Like I've said before, I was pretty so-so on angel. Other players are giving me the business for calling one of angel's posts critical thinking, but that's what I truly thought it was. Wagon analysis is a great tool, and now, especially with AGar and Mindgamer's flips (remember: Mindgamer wasn't interested in lynching Quagmire and the Colonel (AGar's replacement) wasn't interested in the Quagmire lynch), I feel more justified in my predictions that the scum will be in the group of Faraday, cruelty, and Nacho (if not all of them).

Check it out:

Final Vote Count

Quagmire

(7)

Hoopla,

Cyberbob

, cruelty,

AGar

, Flareonage, RedCoyote, hitogoroshi

The Tracker (2)

Nachomamma8, angelmouse

Flareonage (1)

The Tracker

Cyberbob

(1)

Quagmire

angelmouse (1)

Mindgamer

Not Voting (0)

With twelve alive, it took seven to guillotine. Quagmire has 'achieved' a majority.

(flip colors added)

Hoopla and Cyberbob were both emotionally (or at least politically) interested in lynching Quagmire. These are reasonable disagreements, but not necessarily scummy ones. Me and hito were both "forced" on the wagon due to time contraints and (at least on my part) the unwillingness to lynch The Tracker.

AGar has since flipped town, but as I noted above, the person he replaced was not interested in lynching Quagmire. Seeing as how the Colonel played for the majority of Day 1, this is important to consider.

Who does that leave? cruelty and Faraday.

I mean, talk about a smoking gun. You're going to tell me the entire town lynched Quagmire? No, I don't buy it. I won't buy it. cruelty and Faraday have to say that's the case, they've both supported one another throughout Day 2 (unless one of them has a revelation now that I've made this post that is).

Even if it isn't both cruelty and Faraday, I will eat my hat if at least one of them isn't scum. And I'd bet you dollars to donuts that hito is a second scum (if cruelty and Faraday aren't scum together).

If I have any say at all in today's lynch, it will be cruelty or Faraday. Nacho or hito would be a very, very distant third and fourth.

[

Town

]------Hoops-SW---Ed--hito---[

∙

]---Nacho---------Faraday-cruelty--[

Scum

]

I essentially agree with hito's post 624, he may have more confidence in me then I have in him (although I'm still comfortable with him as town, comfortable enough to lynch three other people before him), and he may be giving Faraday a little too much credit for my taste, but I think we see completely eye to eye on cruelty. I'm pretty sure Ed feels at least similar, although I'd like to hear more from him. I'd also like to hear SW's claim when she gets her bearings.

Other than that though, I don't need to be told twice to join the cruelty wagon. I just hope SW, Hoopla, and possibly Nacho see the case against him as clearly as me and hito do.

[hitogoroshi]

Cruelty: it's a fair point that going for me isn't tunneling. That was a quick post, I'll admit. Let me try to expand out my vote in more detail.

The tunneling was D2. You came in from a long absence and voted the person voting for you. I responded by pointing out that this was more or less OMGUS. Instead of doing anything to recitfy it, you just joked about it (this is something I personally call a scumtell - when you joke about an anti-town thing you're doing without changing it, I interpret it as trying to keep doing it without making a defense while LOOKING as thought you've addressed the point).

Now I personally don't think it's even possible to have an RC scum read for the reasons people have been giving. It strikes me as scum trying to look 'scumhunting' by deliberately picking a player whose posts ooze town. There's a bit of hesitation because you're not the only one who wanted to lynch RC, but out of the players who support his lynch you were both the start and the one I feel to be the least sincere.

I tried to get you lynched and failed. And now here we are, day three. You finally expand from your OMGUS vote on someone I believe is a townie and add...another OMGUS vote on the other biggest supporter for your lynch, on someone I KNOW is a townie, for reasoning that boils down to 'well he's acting pro-town but I still think he's secretly a sith lord.'

You're right that calling this tunneling was an over-simplification. But it's still wrong. For the town to win this game, we can't lynch either of your lynch targets. For the town to win this game, you can't have influence on our lynch. For the town to win this game, you have to die.

That is where we stand. I think you're scum and there's no point talking to you. If there are others who don't understand why I think this way (Hoopla and her strange cruelty-town read spring to mind) I can explain myself further.

Now, if you happen to be a townie...I don't know what to tell you. We lost this game when you did nothing but cling stubbornly to attacking your attackers. After how this game has gone I doubt I can convince you (especially because the counter to any reasonable argument on my part is, 'Well, of COURSE palpatine wants to look reasonable). Any change will have to come from you.

[EdFrost]

I think RayFrost forgot about our QT so I'll just go.

Vote: Cruelty

There's nothing in these hito/RC posts that I really disagree with; and I especially think that hito's "view the game logically" comment is apt. If there's this much lining up on a full read of the game (instead of seeing one thing and disagreeing on the rest) with each of us "taking our turns" speaking our mind without being able to blatantly copy one or another.

[Faraday]

Snow White should claim, pronto.


Anyway I don't believe Ed's claim.
I don't think we'd have more gimmicky 'vanillas' than actualy vanillas. Admittedly there's very few things he could have claimed that'd have made me believe him so meh.

Ed did you say who you protected Night 1? Sorry if I missed it.

I mean, talk about a smoking gun. You're going to tell me the entire town lynched Quagmire? No, I don't buy it. I won't buy it. cruelty and Faraday have to say that's the case, they've both supported one another throughout Day 2 (unless one of them has a revelation now that I've made this post that is).
Even if it isn't both cruelty and Faraday, I will eat my hat if at least one of them isn't scum. And I'd bet you dollars to donuts that hito is a second scum (if cruelty and Faraday aren't scum together).

Uh, no. I'm not going to tell you the entire town lynched Quagmire. You're scum, remember? Also your reluctance was made clear, but that didn't stop you voting him.

I should be clear that I think vote count analysis is generally pretty useless and I've never seen it used very well by anyone (apart from DGB). Mith's /in-vitational pretty much re-inforced that for me, really but anyway.

Lol will you upload said hat-eating on youtube? (of course this probably doesn't apply if you're scum, rit?)

Anyway :

Scum:
Redcoyote
Edfrost

+ 1 of Nacho/Hito.

I believe Hoopla's claim for reasons previously said by other people and am in the same boat with The TrackerWhite's.

Vote RedCoyote

It seems like none of the 'voting bloc' are up for changing there minds. I don't think that means a whole lot as at worst I believe 2 of them are scum, possibly all 3.

[RedCoyote]

Uh, no. I'm not going to tell you the entire town lynched Quagmire. You're scum, remember? Also your reluctance was made clear, but that didn't stop you voting him.

Come on, Faraday! Talk about forcing out an argument. You know darn well that if I hadn't have joined the Quagmire lynch that either someone else would've (there was, like, 20 hours left in the day?), or we would've gotten a no lynch. I was in no way unclear about my position, and in fact had made that reluctance very clear throughout D1.

So I'm the only scum on that wagon? Or, wait, it was possibly me and hito. Because Flare's Quagmire vote was just so darned townie:

I don't think [Quagmire's policy] benefits him or hurts him. It's neutral and we're wasting our time focusing on him. Where's all the real scum hunting? We have pages of why Quagmire should be executed.

Unvote

VOTE: The tracker

Where has he been? It's about time he got in here and said something instead of hiding behind the whole Quagmire thing

I agree completely with redcoyote. This Quagmire thing is wasting our time. We are not gonna learn anything and D2 is gonna end up being our real D1

I just really don't like this Quagmire thing. it's a smokescreen, distracting us from scum hunting. Everyone who is voting for Quagmire hasn't really been scum hunting. They just want Quagmire gone because of his playing style. There may be some truth to what they are saying but scum could easily be using that situation to their advantage.

Unvote

VOTE: Quagmire

If we have a serial killer then we need the trackers help, Quagmire is the only other person that will have a majority by the time the deadline hits

My point is the argument that, "Well, you may not have liked it, but you still did it" cuts two ways. Flare was just as blantant about it.

[cruelty]

Instead of doing anything to recitfy it, you just joked about it (this is something I personally call a scumtell - when you joke about an anti-town thing you're doing without changing it, I interpret it as trying to keep doing it without making a defense while LOOKING as thought you've addressed the point).

This is... I don't even really know what this is. This reads as a very awkward attack on something you think should be scummy but don't really know how to approach.

Now I personally don't think it's even possible to have an RC scum read for the reasons people have been giving. It strikes me as scum trying to look 'scumhunting' by deliberately picking a player whose posts ooze town. There's a bit of hesitation because you're not the only one who wanted to lynch RC, but out of the players who support his lynch you were both the start and the one I feel to be the least sincere.

Irrelevant.

Obviously we're two completely different people, so our town/scum reads are not necessarily going to be the same. Don't really think it's valid to criticise someone based on their reads; that would presume that you're infallible, which I highly doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the possibility that I have a bad read, it's happened before and it'll happen again, but in the absence of an RC flip I don't see this as a valid point.

someone I KNOW is a townie, for reasoning that boils down to 'well he's acting pro-town but I still think he's secretly a sith lord.'

This is a simplification.

You're right that calling this tunneling was an over-simplification.

t's not what I said. I said you were misrepresenting me. I stand by that.

But it's still wrong. For the town to win this game, we can't lynch either of your lynch targets. For the town to win this game, you can't have influence on our lynch. For the town to win this game, you have to die.

This is also irrelevant (and wifom). Actually it's a little bit more than that.

So far all we really have to go on is your word that you're town (and RC's). If you're scum, obviously what you say means nothing, and if you're town with a bad read on your "voting bloc" then you're probably a whole lot more dangerous than I am.

That is where we stand. I think you're scum and there's no point talking to you.

lol.

We lost this game when you did nothing but cling stubbornly to attacking your attackers.

Wait what? The game is lost? Solid attitude.

I'm not really sure how I'm to blame though. This reads as another awkward attempt to convince the town of my guilt (and responsibility for everything that has gone wrong this entire game).

The problem is, it's untrue.

I gotta cut this short, people just arrived.

[Hoopla]

Final Vote Count

Quagmire

(7)

Hoopla,

Cyberbob

, cruelty,

AGar

, Flareonage, RedCoyote, hitogoroshi

The Tracker (2)

Nachomamma8, angelmouse

Flareonage (1)

The Tracker

Cyberbob

(1)

Quagmire

angelmouse (1)

Mindgamer

Not Voting (0)

With twelve alive, it took seven to guillotine. Quagmire has 'achieved' a majority.

(flip colors added)

Hoopla and Cyberbob were both emotionally (or at least politically) interested in lynching Quagmire. These are reasonable disagreements, but not necessarily scummy ones. Me and hito were both "forced" on the wagon due to time contraints and (at least on my part) the unwillingness to lynch The Tracker.

AGar has since flipped town, but as I noted above, the person he replaced was not interested in lynching Quagmire. Seeing as how the Colonel played for the majority of Day 1, this is important to consider.

Who does that leave? cruelty and Faraday.

I mean, talk about a smoking gun. You're going to tell me the entire town lynched Quagmire? No, I don't buy it. I won't buy it. cruelty and Faraday have to say that's the case, they've both supported one another throughout Day 2 (unless one of them has a revelation now that I've made this post that is).

Even if it isn't both cruelty and Faraday, I will eat my hat if at least one of them isn't scum. And I'd bet you dollars to donuts that hito is a second scum (if cruelty and Faraday aren't scum together).

This is actually a very compelling piece of evidence. I don't like how you're giving yourself such an easy out along with hito, on the Quagmire wagon. But cruelty and Faraday are looking highly suspect. Knowing I'm town, I seriously doubt the first 5 votes on this lynch are town. As much as I hate to say it, cruelty or Faraday has to be today's lynch.

I want to look through possible scumteams, but the site is intermittently cutting out on me, so I'll leave this post with a point about role/set-up speculation;

Despite EdFrost being one of my stronger reads, I think out of all of the claims, his is most likely to be fake. I strongly believe the FBI claim, but having two SK related roles for a non-SK set-up seems a bit, well, too much. Doc-vig (one that can be disabled) and a tracker doesn't seem like enough power to balance out against a 3-player scumteam, when you have multiple roles in the town designed to confuse/mislead players. This makes me think there is a decent chance Ed's claim is fake - but I don't think he should be lynched over cruelty or Faraday, especially when Ed (angelmouse) wasn't on the Quagmire lynch either.

[Faraday]

Uh, no. I'm not going to tell you the entire town lynched Quagmire. You're scum, remember? Also your reluctance was made clear, but that didn't stop you voting him.

Come on, Faraday! Talk about forcing out an argument. You know darn well that if I hadn't have joined the Quagmire lynch that either someone else would've (there was, like, 20 hours left in the day?), or we would've gotten a no lynch. I was in no way unclear about my position, and in fact had made that reluctance very clear throughout D1.

So I'm the only scum on that wagon? Or, wait, it was possibly me and hito. Because Flare's Quagmire vote was just so darned townie:

I assumed you were making the point that your relauctance made you less likely to be scum? If that's the case then the same idea would apply to flare? (And in all honesty I can't answer what he's thinking, and I'm not sure he could either )

[Faraday]

Are Nacho and Snow_Bunny around?

[RedCoyote]

I'm not asking you to, but surely you must acknowledge Flare for being more two-sided than I was.

I would say my reluctance to lynching Quagmire was null, but my point was more focused on the idea that I could reason everyone's vote on that wagon except for Flare and cruelty.

[RedCoyote]

And I'm not claiming that I was two-sided, or flip flopping, in anyway.

[Snow White]

Is Snow_Bunny around?

Really? She's in this game?


I still have some reading to do but FYI im vanilla. If enough people i find town tell me where it is im to place my vote i will abide.

[Hoopla]

Is Snow_Bunny around?

Really? She's in this game?


I still have some reading to do but FYI im vanilla. If enough people i find town tell me where it is im to place my vote i will abide.

If you don't know where to place your vote (who is scummy), then how do you know who is town?

[RedCoyote]

FYI im vanilla.

[Hoopla]

FYI im vanilla.

OH YEAHHHH

[hitogoroshi]

FYI im vanilla.

Is this a lynch all liars situation?

Let's think about the possibilities.

• Snow White-scum fakeclaims, forgets to check Tracker's posts to see if her slot has fakeclaimed already
  
• Snow White-town is an FBI agent, misread role PM
  
• Snow White-town is a VT, Tracker was lying

1 is, I think, the most likely. 2 is highly doubtful. As for 3...that's the only reason I'm not 100% on a Snow White wagon. Tracker seems like the kind of newbie player that would lie about a PR claim to save his own skin as town, although the fact that he didn't recant it when we started building set-up speculation around it is more worrisome.

What do you guys think? Is Tracker-VT lying about his role a big enough possibility that we don't lynch Snow White? I admit I'm biased here in that I'm weighing this against a cruelty lynch (and even if we hit SW-scum today, tomorrow we'll be back in the same position) and if this was, say, D2, I wouldn't have the uncertainty I do now.

[Hoopla]

Is this a lynch all liars situation?

Yes, almost certainly. This is one of the most objetive pieces of evidence you'll ever find against someone in a game of mafia. The chances of some sort of pro-town explaination for this is so slim compared to the obvious answer of scum not realizing their predecessor had already fakeclaimed. But I'm curious to hear Snow's response.

It doesn't matter if we're back in the same boat tomorrow having to lynch correctly again - that's the only way we can win. Having a confirmed scum will improve our reads tomorrow.

[hitogoroshi]

Also, I just realized that RC asked for SW's 'claim' and I never raised an eyebrow as to why. But come to think of it, asking for a claim makes it LOOK like that slot never claimed, which is useful in this situation to try to catch scum.

Nicely played, sir.



I think that makes it even more probable that this is SnowWhite-Scum not realizing her slot had fakeclaimed (because of RC's post giving the impression it had not). But, like Hoopla, I at least want to hear her reasoning.

[EdFrost]

I'm reeeeeeaaaallyyyyy not liking that VT claim.

I'm willing to vote switch off of that, but Amished makes our votes, so yeah.

~ F