Open 205 - Medical Mafia - Game Over Too Soon?

[DiscoRoboto]

EBWOP: excuses for the grammar mistakes. It's kinda late over here and I'm a bit too tired to make proper sentences.

Vote Count #2

mykonian (3) - Mindgamer, DiscoRoboto, XScorpion
kyle99 (1) - Looker
Looker (1) - SaintKerrigan
XScorpion (1) - mykonian

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[XScorpion]

I vote against the idea of a circle, period.

[Light]

look, i believe that some of myko's strat is relevant, however it is somewhat flawed.

we definitely need a testing strat to test our doctor skills. I'd do the circle strat only if everyone else agrees to it, otherwise we could do a 'better variation of the idea'.

[mykonian]

Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

Because the reasons behind why your plan is horrible have already been given. Mindgamer said it best: assuming you are scum, your plan was to construct the circle yourself, organize it so that scum will be next to each other, then watch as 3 doctors get killed tonight.
If "not using night powers" was such a good strategy, why didn't you suggest it first?

because it isn't...

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

I don't understand what this means:

Now, why are you excusing yourself for something that seems wrong, but you just can´t help it?

In your post, you say you can't help your vote, because you had such a bad experience with scum in a recent game. Why that excuse?

On a side note, I don't think I've heard anything scummier than this yet:

Well, it seems like our night strategy will be more important than our day discussion.

This just screams scum to me.

[/quote]

Sadly, this is mindgamers quote, and even then it is completely out of context, since it was a joke of his. Are you manipulating, dear scorpion?

[/quote]

[mykonian]

That's

irrelevent, he obviously didn't suggest a plan, but we don't have to divert attention to that right now.

yes, well that part annoyed me. Everyone can show bad points. However, it is to be asked if they can be improved. In a few minutes, I'll give that a try, but it is so easy to discredit someone who takes initiative this way.

Well,

we all know that of ourselves. Why you? Scroll down to see a suggestion.

and why is it suspect to propose to make that circle yourself? Because town wants control so scum won't manipulate it?

Because you aren't cleared town in our eyes.

and who tells me you aren't scum? I have the mod telling me I'm town, and I rather don't let scum manipulate this.

The problem with a "townie-vote" is that it makes scum's job easy, and we don't yet know if we are going to protect that person.

[mykonian]

look, i believe that some of myko's strat is relevant, however it is somewhat flawed.

we definitely need a testing strat to test our doctor skills. I'd do the circle strat only if everyone else agrees to it, otherwise we could do a 'better variation of the idea'.

Starting point of my thinking:

we have 2 killing roles (CPR-Quack)
2 protective (JK-Doc)
1 investigative (weak doc)

Blocking is not that usefull to us yet (gets important closer to lylo, or when only 1 scum is left)

ok, myko strat v2:

We pick a group of minimal 3 players, and let them circle. We pick the scummy players for this. In case there is a CPR or Quack among them, one scummy player is gone now. Sadly, the same counts for the weak doc: the investigation is practically wasted. The rest of the players does nothing.

myko strat v3: we pick 3 players who are targets, we pick 3 other players who are going to target: same effect, if one of the targeting (townie) players is a CPR or Quack, we lost a scummy player. Benefit is that the weak doc's investigation (hard to find because of the scums kill, perhaps), is not completely wasted. The JK is not a problem here.


Both strategies limit the nightkills, and focus nightkills on scummy looking townies, making scumhunting easier later. That should fix most of the problems, right?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Mykonian:

There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town; it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents

Think about it. The scum have a guaranteed nightkill with the original circle plan by killing off one of the people they're supposed to be "protecting." The only way town gets a night scumkill is through one of our two killing roles getting lined up one at least one of the scum. The odds of both of our killing roles hitting both scum is nigh impossible. The odds of hitting just one isn't that much likelier. The odds of killing off an innocent are good. Meanwhile, the scum have a guaranteed nightkill. This is why I disagree with your plan.

His proposal to set up the circle himself is also suspect.

Actually, I don't know what I was thinking here. This is more or less a null-tell, since we don't know that you are town or scum, and both factions would have a reason for wanting to set up your "circle."

Meanwhile, there's XScorpion.

Unvote: Looker. Vote: XScorpion.

You first simply call Mykonian's plan scummy without explaining why, and when quizzed about it you give an absolutely horrendous WIFOM reason. Then you misrepresent Mykonian by attributing a quote to him that was actually from Mindgamer. Right now, you're looking very scummy to me.

[Mindgamer]

However, the plan may not be all that great, but I'm not sure that he's scum simply for suggesting it. It's too bold a move, and I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that.

I hate this argument.

- I don't like how you publicly express your ability to refrain from placing Mykonian at L-1

How so? Although I'm very sure Mykonian is scum, putting someone at L-1 after almost no discussion is madness. For this reason he FoS'd. Why do you not like this?

To be honest, I'm not going to vote Mykonian based on the ramifications of his plan, probably because I wasn't going to follow it anyway. I'm not going to vote him based on his competence or lack thereof as a player.

This implies that we're voting for Mykonian because he's stupid. No, we're voting for him because he's scummy. Quite the Strawman argument you make here.

I still don't like the thought of a "Town Leader", though, unless, of course, that Leader is me. Otherwise it's not worth the risk.

Why? Do you think you would make a great leader for this game?

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

You failed to mention they could kill.

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

Huh? I haven't even suggested a strategy of my own yet. What is this for kind of question?

And mykonian already knew that scum have to be next to each other in the circle, and that they should be "forced" to kill another scummy player.

Scum have to be next to eachother? Interesting choice of words. We don't know who the scum are, so we can't put them next to eachother. How would you want to do that? Unless, of course, you already know who the scum are because you're scum yourself. Oh, and we can't force scum to kill eachother at night. If they are next to eachother in the circle they won't use the town tactics obviously.

And what is that last thing? how am I stopping discussion when I'm starting it?

I read 'we better lynch right today' as 'we better lynch right now' instead of 'we better lynch good today'. An error on my side.

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

And here we have another Strawman argument. XScorpion attacks the 'he is so scummy he must be town' reasoning. This does not mean that he thinks the opposite.
From what I can see, XScorpion seems to favour the 'he is so scummy he must be scum' theory, the only theory based on actual logic.

There is no general consensus. General consensus is the situation where EVERYONE agrees on a certain topic. Please elaborate on your 'conspiracy thinking' statement.

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

Eh, yes? It's one of the four setups in Newbie games. According to AGar's analysis, scum wins that setup 64% of the time. Where did you get the 90% number from?

ok, myko strat v2:

We pick a group of minimal 3 players, and let them circle. We pick the scummy players for this. In case there is a CPR or Quack among them, one scummy player is gone now. Sadly, the same counts for the weak doc: the investigation is practically wasted. The rest of the players does nothing.

myko strat v3: we pick 3 players who are targets, we pick 3 other players who are going to target: same effect, if one of the targeting (townie) players is a CPR or Quack, we lost a scummy player. Benefit is that the weak doc's investigation (hard to find because of the scums kill, perhaps), is not completely wasted. The JK is not a problem here.

I'm growing sick of these plans. These plans have the EXACT SAME FLAWS your earlier plan had.

1. The scum know who the doctors are going to target, so the scum get a 100% sure kill.
2. After the night, we still don't know anything about the doctors due to the scum interference. If a doctor dies, do you call him a weak doctor? Who says the scum can't target a doctor-target to further complicate things? At the beginning of the next day, only the scum know every night action, and so only the scum can draw conclusions. The scum now have a few roles confirmed where the town is still in doubt. Yay?

Vote: Mykonian

Vote: Mykonian

Vote: Mykonian

Also, Gymmo, if you disagree with the plan, what do think about knowing your PR? Should we ignore it or do you have a better plan?

As a matter of fact I do have an idea: We stop discussing the night and every individual does what they think is best, be it random or a strategy of their own. Here's why:

At this moment we have only one true advantage over the scum: We have so many protective roles that there is a high chance their night kill will fail. A failed scum kill is very valuable for the town. If the scum don't know what we are going to do, they can't act in accordance with it.

After each night, only the individual players will know something about their respective roles. THIS IS CRUCIAL. We don't want the scum to know what our roles are. We should treat this game like a closed setup, and act as self-cops for the moment. We don't mass claim in other games, do we? Why should we do that in this one? Only in LyLo should we make a massclaim.

Thoughts on this plan, please.

[SaintKerrigan]

For the record, I'm in favor of every man acting for himself. That said, I don't think Mykonian is scummy for suggesting the plans, even if they are flawed.

[SaintKerrigan]

Game has not enough fish.

[mykonian]

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

You failed to mention they could kill.

SERIOUSLY?

you didn't even have doubts when you posted this?

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

Huh? I haven't even suggested a strategy of my own yet. What is this for kind of question?

Why are you not doing anything of yourself?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

And here we have another Strawman argument. XScorpion attacks the 'he is so scummy he must be town' reasoning. This does not mean that he thinks the opposite.
From what I can see, XScorpion seems to favour the 'he is so scummy he must be scum' theory, the only theory based on actual logic.

Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town. Scorp thinks I do this to manipulate = too towny principle. "He is so obviously sticking his neck out, it must have some purpose"

There is no general consensus. General consensus is the situation where EVERYONE agrees on a certain topic. Please elaborate on your 'conspiracy thinking' statement.

Very simple: I am trying to convince you of something, that must mean I'm scum, right? I must be manipulating you.

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work. You are this way stalling the coming of new ideas, since you consider someone that thinks of a new idea and tries to convince you, scum. Good luck ever trying to become better.

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

Eh, yes? It's one of the four setups in Newbie games. According to AGar's analysis, scum wins that setup 64% of the time. Where did you get the 90% number from?

This is because scum is still scared of powerroles: the setups here and there aren't equal.

Though with the nurse, 90% is certainly too much.

Even then 36% is not enough for me. Playing with 1 confirmed vig, and 1 confirmed doc would make me much more happy.

I'm growing sick of these plans. These plans have the EXACT SAME FLAWS your earlier plan had.

1. The scum know who the doctors are going to target, so the scum get a 100% sure kill.

SOLVE IT. THEY HAVE THAT ANYWAY, OR YOUR PROTECTION IS ACCIDENTALLY A QUACK, AND YOU KILL HIM

2. After the night, we still don't know anything about the doctors due to the scum interference. If a doctor dies, do you call him a weak doctor? Who says the scum can't target a doctor-target to further complicate things? At the beginning of the next day, only the scum know every night action, and so only the scum can draw conclusions. The scum now have a few roles confirmed where the town is still in doubt. Yay?

this is why strat 2 is better: the targeting and target players are both scummy, making that any complications (scumkills/weak doc) are on people we want dead anyway.

As a matter of fact I do have an idea: We stop discussing the night and every individual does what they think is best, be it random or a strategy of their own. Here's why:

At this moment we have only one true advantage over the scum: We have so many protective roles that there is a high chance their night kill will fail. A failed scum kill is very valuable for the town. If the scum don't know what we are going to do, they can't act in accordance with it.

we have 2 roles that kill, 3 that save(with one of them the weak doctor) BRILLIANT PLAN. Suddenly a quack "protects" a confirmed towny: what now, GENIUS?

[mykonian]

@ Mykonian:

There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town; it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents

Think about it. The scum have a guaranteed nightkill with the original circle plan by killing off one of the people they're supposed to be "protecting." The only way town gets a night scumkill is through one of our two killing roles getting lined up one at least one of the scum. The odds of both of our killing roles hitting both scum is nigh impossible. The odds of hitting just one isn't that much likelier. The odds of killing off an innocent are good. Meanwhile, the scum have a guaranteed nightkill. This is why I disagree with your plan.

Does it become better when we put 3 scummy (lurking) people in a circle targeting each other, thereby having the kills among the people we want gone anyway, and minimizing the negative effects?

Meanwhile, there's XScorpion.

Unvote: Looker. Vote: XScorpion.

You first simply call Mykonian's plan scummy without explaining why, and when quizzed about it you give an absolutely horrendous WIFOM reason. Then you misrepresent Mykonian by attributing a quote to him that was actually from Mindgamer. Right now, you're looking very scummy to me.

Yeah, I'm a bit more calm now:

XScorpion

I quoted mindgamer: why did this sentence end up under my name, and why don't you vote mindgamer for this ( I know you won't, I just want to hear from you, why)

[mykonian]

oh, sorry: in post 60, in the end, I posted my text bolded inside the quote, and forgot the later quote tags.

[SaintKerrigan]

Does it become better when we put 3 scummy (lurking) people in a circle targeting each other, thereby having the kills among the people we want gone anyway, and minimizing the negative effects?

Um, not really. I don't see how doing this is going to minimize negative effects or confine our kills to scummy people.

[Looker]

unvote

---

4. Interesting assumption, but ok. Although I would like a simple yes or no answer in response to "Do you think Mykonian's plan is a nulltell".

- Whether the plan sucks or not is a nulltell
- The fact that he made one, not so much; however, at this stage of the game with no supporting suspicions, it's more a nulltell than anything else.
- Have you noticed Danny's absence?

P.S. Only obv. scum speak in third person.

Well, we already know that one of you is scum, we just have to figure out which. We're currently in the process of doing so.

I suggest doing a town-event vote for the one who makes the circle

,

if

(and only IF) everyone (or at least a vast majority) agrees on going through with it.
We will elect a player to make the circle by majority voting, we can easily set a deadline of, say, a week (only an example).
If we go through with this I can do the votecounts if necessary.
I'm suggesting this plan because it's the closest we can get to a fair choice on the 'circle-maker'. This is pretty much the same as a lynch but in this case we actually have more chance to hit a towny instead of a mafia. Profitable? In my eyes it is.

@Kyle, Light, & Danny: Who do you guys think should make the circle?

Wow looker, your reasoning is awful. You voted me because I didn't put someone at L1 before the mod even announces day one has started, and your vote seems to be just to start up a competing wagon to the Mykonian wagon. Scum-buddying, perhaps?

Buddying? You sure I'm not holding a grudge against you...? You never know, I could be a xRECKONERx alt...

we definitely need a testing strat to test our doctor skills. I'd do the circle strat only if everyone else agrees to it, otherwise we could do a 'better variation of the idea'.

What would be your better variation (of the idea)?

---

How so? Although I'm very sure Mykonian is scum, putting someone at L-1 after almost no discussion is madness. For this reason he FoS'd. Why do you not like this?

---

This implies that we're voting for Mykonian because he's stupid. No, we're voting for him because he's scummy. Quite the Strawman argument you make here.

---

Why? Do you think you would make a great leader for this game?

- I didn't dislike it. I felt he made the least commitment.
- We weren't discussing stupidity. We were discussing the ramifications of Myk's plan as a nulltell and whether or not

I

would vote him.
- I'm as good a choice as any.

For the record, I'm in favor of every man acting for himself. That said, I don't think Mykonian is scummy for suggesting the plans, even if they are flawed.

With this, I agree.

---

vote Danny

Light & Kyle have offered input already.

[mykonian]

one thing I don't understand:

How can everyone else going into this game missing one of the two pieces of information you have?

-the setup
-your role

Why did nobody think of how to get an advantage with this information?

[Looker]

Differences of playstyle and intentions for the game. You're making a mess out of this entire thing; it's only a misunderstanding. If you're not positively sure xScorpion is scum, I'd encourage you not to waste your time.

What is your opinion of Danny's absence?

[mykonian]

I haven't seen him earlier, so I don't think there was malicious intent, since by attacking me he could easily have posted.

About Xscorpion, I have seen him play, and I see his quote mistake as deliberate. I have read the game you two played in, so I know a bit how he plays, and my vote is on someone who looks scummy anyway.

However, in that game, nowhere he used manipulation to make a case, which he clearly did here by quoting mindgamer and calling it mine.

Since he would have to copy paste, change the name to mykonian, and add it to the case already there, I am pretty sure this was

deliberate

And the above: that is not playstyle, that is intelligence, mostly. You have made that choice conciously, which is ok, but they clearly didn't.

[Mindgamer]

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

You failed to mention they could kill.

SERIOUSLY?

you didn't even have doubts when you posted this?

No.

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

Huh? I haven't even suggested a strategy of my own yet. What is this for kind of question?

Why are you not doing anything of yourself?

I already did?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

And here we have another Strawman argument. XScorpion attacks the 'he is so scummy he must be town' reasoning. This does not mean that he thinks the opposite.
From what I can see, XScorpion seems to favour the 'he is so scummy he must be scum' theory, the only theory based on actual logic.

Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town. Scorp thinks I do this to manipulate = too towny principle. "He is so obviously sticking his neck out, it must have some purpose"

'Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town.'

No. People proposing

helpful

things are

more likely

to be town. People proposing

useless/detrimental

things are more likely to be scum.

Manipulating is something scum does. It's certainly not towny, let alone too towny.

There is no general consensus. General consensus is the situation where EVERYONE agrees on a certain topic. Please elaborate on your 'conspiracy thinking' statement.

Very simple: I am trying to convince you of something, that must mean I'm scum, right? I must be manipulating you.

What is this crap? A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit an evil act.

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work.

In the end you lynch the scummo's obviously. Are you joking here?
Bandwagons are used for pressure btw.

You are this way stalling the coming of new ideas, since you consider someone that thinks of a new idea and tries to convince you, scum.

It's not the fact that you're coming up with ideas, it's the fact that you're coming up with pro-scum ideas.

Good luck ever trying to become better.

lol?

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

Eh, yes? It's one of the four setups in Newbie games. According to AGar's analysis, scum wins that setup 64% of the time. Where did you get the 90% number from?

This is because scum is still scared of powerroles: the setups here and there aren't equal.

Though with the nurse, 90% is certainly too much.

Even then 36% is not enough for me. Playing with 1 confirmed vig, and 1 confirmed doc would make me much more happy.

Newbie games with a Mafia Roleblocker have a 50% chance of playing with a Cop and Doctor, so the scum is always 'scared' of powerroles. And I ask again: Where did you get the 90% number from?

I'm growing sick of these plans. These plans have the EXACT SAME FLAWS your earlier plan had.

1. The scum know who the doctors are going to target, so the scum get a 100% sure kill.

SOLVE IT. THEY HAVE THAT ANYWAY, OR YOUR PROTECTION IS ACCIDENTALLY A QUACK, AND YOU KILL HIM

They don't have that anyway. Quack is irrelevant.

2. After the night, we still don't know anything about the doctors due to the scum interference. If a doctor dies, do you call him a weak doctor? Who says the scum can't target a doctor-target to further complicate things? At the beginning of the next day, only the scum know every night action, and so only the scum can draw conclusions. The scum now have a few roles confirmed where the town is still in doubt. Yay?

this is why strat 2 is better: the targeting and target players are both scummy, making that any complications (scumkills/weak doc) are on people we want dead anyway.

Complications > Giving the scum info as opposed to the town. And you're assuming the whole town wants 3 out of 8 people dead anyway. Unrealistic.

As a matter of fact I do have an idea: We stop discussing the night and every individual does what they think is best, be it random or a strategy of their own. Here's why:

At this moment we have only one true advantage over the scum: We have so many protective roles that there is a high chance their night kill will fail. A failed scum kill is very valuable for the town. If the scum don't know what we are going to do, they can't act in accordance with it.

we have 2 roles that kill, 3 that save(with one of them the weak doctor) BRILLIANT PLAN. Suddenly a quack "protects" a confirmed towny: what now, GENIUS?

A confirmed townie? Where?

[Mindgamer]

Hardcore quote fail. Let's try again.

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

You failed to mention they could kill.

SERIOUSLY?

you didn't even have doubts when you posted this?

No.

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

Huh? I haven't even suggested a strategy of my own yet. What is this for kind of question?

Why are you not doing anything of yourself?

I already did?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

And here we have another Strawman argument. XScorpion attacks the 'he is so scummy he must be town' reasoning. This does not mean that he thinks the opposite.
From what I can see, XScorpion seems to favour the 'he is so scummy he must be scum' theory, the only theory based on actual logic.

Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town. Scorp thinks I do this to manipulate = too towny principle. "He is so obviously sticking his neck out, it must have some purpose"

'Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town.'

No. People proposing

helpful

things are

more likely

to be town. People proposing

useless/detrimental

things are more likely to be scum.

Manipulating is something scum does. It's certainly not towny, let alone too towny.

There is no general consensus. General consensus is the situation where EVERYONE agrees on a certain topic. Please elaborate on your 'conspiracy thinking' statement.

Very simple: I am trying to convince you of something, that must mean I'm scum, right? I must be manipulating you.

What is this crap? A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit an evil act.

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work.

In the end you lynch the scummo's obviously. Are you joking here?
Bandwagons are used for pressure btw.

You are this way stalling the coming of new ideas, since you consider someone that thinks of a new idea and tries to convince you, scum.

It's not the fact that you're coming up with ideas, it's the fact that you're coming up with pro-scum ideas.

Good luck ever trying to become better.

lol?

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

Eh, yes? It's one of the four setups in Newbie games. According to AGar's analysis, scum wins that setup 64% of the time. Where did you get the 90% number from?

This is because scum is still scared of powerroles: the setups here and there aren't equal.

Though with the nurse, 90% is certainly too much.

Even then 36% is not enough for me. Playing with 1 confirmed vig, and 1 confirmed doc would make me much more happy.

Newbie games with a Mafia Roleblocker have a 50% chance of playing with a Cop and Doctor, so the scum is always 'scared' of powerroles. And I ask again: Where did you get the 90% number from?

I'm growing sick of these plans. These plans have the EXACT SAME FLAWS your earlier plan had.

1. The scum know who the doctors are going to target, so the scum get a 100% sure kill.

SOLVE IT. THEY HAVE THAT ANYWAY, OR YOUR PROTECTION IS ACCIDENTALLY A QUACK, AND YOU KILL HIM

They don't have that anyway. Quack is irrelevant.

2. After the night, we still don't know anything about the doctors due to the scum interference. If a doctor dies, do you call him a weak doctor? Who says the scum can't target a doctor-target to further complicate things? At the beginning of the next day, only the scum know every night action, and so only the scum can draw conclusions. The scum now have a few roles confirmed where the town is still in doubt. Yay?

this is why strat 2 is better: the targeting and target players are both scummy, making that any complications (scumkills/weak doc) are on people we want dead anyway.

Complications > Giving the scum info as opposed to the town. And you're assuming the whole town wants 3 out of 8 people dead anyway. Unrealistic.

As a matter of fact I do have an idea: We stop discussing the night and every individual does what they think is best, be it random or a strategy of their own. Here's why:

At this moment we have only one true advantage over the scum: We have so many protective roles that there is a high chance their night kill will fail. A failed scum kill is very valuable for the town. If the scum don't know what we are going to do, they can't act in accordance with it.

we have 2 roles that kill, 3 that save(with one of them the weak doctor) BRILLIANT PLAN. Suddenly a quack "protects" a confirmed towny: what now, GENIUS?

A confirmed townie? Where?

[/quote]

[mykonian]

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work.

In the end you lynch the scummo's obviously. Are you joking here?
Bandwagons are used for pressure btw.

Are you stupid or are you scum? OBVIOUSLY we lynch scummos. That is why IIRC, scum wins most of the games here.

Why would that be? Because a lot players have no idea what makes someone scum. We have sadly a rather big concentration of people who are policy lynching through the game. So, if you want to try, please, lynch me.

Lets see if you hit scum. Because OBVIOUSLY, you will. Because you are lynching the person that stands out.

[Looker]

And the above: that is not playstyle, that is intelligence, mostly. You have made that choice conciously, which is ok, but they clearly didn't.

I don't want you to die, Mykonian.

30%

60% XScorpion

30% Mykonian

20% Danny
10% Light
10% Kyle

Mindgamer's Post 69

- It seems you're basing your case off the fact that Myk's plan sucks, which isn't good. The best alternative would be to suggest a different, better plan, which is what I'm still waiting for from Light.

[mykonian]

mindgamer, you have to make a better strategy to call mine bad.

Further, a conspiracy is not based on facts, but on the feeling people are fooling you.

The nurse could become a confirmed towny (it would be very ineffective for scum to counterclaim.) But, as long as we don't know who our protective roles are, there is no use in letting the nurse claim. You really haven't read the setup, have you?

[kyle99]

Alright guys, I still think mykonian is possibly scum. Trying to focus on only the night-action instead of scumhunting is scummeh.

[XScorpion]

My bad about the misquote lol.

Sadly, this is mindgamers quote, and even then it is completely out of context, since it was a joke of his. Are you manipulating, dear scorpion?

Yes because I'm gonna do such a good job convincing people of your scumminess by deliberately attacking you with a quote that you didn't actually say </sarcasm>. Is it really that hard to believe that not everyone plays perfect games? If you actually did read my last game through then you'd know I'm pretty failtown

why did this sentence end up under my name, and why don't you vote mindgamer for this ( I know you won't, I just want to hear from you, why)

Because
1) I wasn't paying attention
2) Because coming from him, it's not serious. Whereas it seems kind of like the thing you would say and mean it. I still don't like how you are putting so much emphasis on night actions and very little during the day on who is scum and why we should vote them. Do you honestly not suspect anyone other than me? When I die, who are you voting next?

Well, we already know that one of you is scum, we just have to figure out which. We're currently in the process of doing so.

I wish this were true, oh I really do. Unfortunately you are completely wrong, and it is easily possible that both of me and Mykonian are just misguided townies. If we actually knew for a fact that either I'm scum or Mykonian is, there really shouldn't be any hesitation to just kill one of us then lynch the other the next day.