Pick Your Power II - Looks like the wine is gone (SCUM WIN)

[Fate]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Bouncy.Bouncy

- 8 - wolframnhart, RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Faraday, Farside, Rayfrost, The1fifi, Porkens - (L-2)

Pomegranate

- 1 - Socrates - (L-9)

Rayfrost

- 1 - Hoopla - (L-9)

The1fifi

- 1 - Bouncy.Bouncy - (L-9)

wolframnhart

- 2 - Jack, Ellibereth - (L-8)

Players not voting: curiouskarmadog, Devotress, DocPotter, Fate, Pomegranate, TonyMontana

[Pffft. He's at L-2 and Fate is right about everyone checking in before he is lynched. Putting him at L-1 could let him selfhammer and the town lose out on night actions.

I missed this post and all of the ones after that before I posted #773... please disregard that post >_<;

[Fate]

I don't think it was a bad investigation...Ray was in my scumlist...
But he probably would make up an excuse if he was scum, Ray was unreadable to him, or something like that...

Ellie, scum defense this late in the game is bad. Stop being stubborn.

I would've expected scum to make up an excuse as well, but what he is doing is worse.

On the slim chance he is dumb town, do we want him outing more power roles? RayFrost is either going to be RB'd, empower killed, etc. now, and he didn't have enough time to have good investigations.

Is town bouncy even scumhunting at all? He has done nothing but try to defend his horrible stance with futile arguments.

The fact that you are ignoring his obvscum status, makes me think you are stubborn scum sticking to a scumbuddy defense. This flip is going to make or break my opinion on you, Ellie.

[farside22]

Goddamnit guys, bouncy is such a VI...do you really think scum would actually say they used random.org???
I was probably just as bad in some of my first games on the site...

What other thing could anyone say for checking out a player that makes no sense as town?

I don't think it was a bad investigation...Ray was in my scumlist...
But he probably would make up an excuse if he was scum, Ray was unreadable to him, or something like that...
Bleh I dunno, my gut fully believes bouncy is town.

He's been playing poorly all game and doing no scum hunting and giving excuses to not scum hunt.
He hasn't posted any suspects and instead states he did random org for checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

[Ellibereth]

I know he's playing terrible...it's just that I also think he's town. :/
Whatevs...I doesn't look like I can stop this lynch. Can we please have the wagon on wolf tomorrow?

[farside22]

I know he's playing terrible...it's just that I also think he's town. :/
Whatevs...I doesn't look like I can stop this lynch. Can we please have the wagon on wolf tomorrow?

What's the case on wolf exactly?

[Ellibereth]

Mine is mainly from PoE as usual.
Jack has said it a few times across his Iso, I'll go look.

[Ellibereth]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#2115553
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#2108706

[bouncy.bouncy]

checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

For the third time, could you tell me why this is a problem?

And if you're going to say the same thing as Socrates, read my reply to him.

[Pomegranate]

Everyone: I'm sorry, I have two large reports due tomorrow. I know I'm behind, and if I can't catch up be Sunday I will replace out.

[farside22]

checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

For the third time, could you tell me why this is a problem?

And if you're going to say the same thing as Socrates, read my reply to him.

Checking a player even as a role cop should be someone you think is scum. They could lie about their role or if someone claims they were RB'ed or someone says they tracked another player instead of having the player who is the actual tracker claim you know who that player actually is and to say that scum doesn't like is a fallacy. With a game that has a probability of some roles not existing it is easy to fake claim a role.

[Fate]

I'm re-voting bouncy first thing in the morning. All players that have not posted after bouncy got to L-1 just make a post noting that you are here and caught up. That is all.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Checking a player even as a role cop should be someone you think is scum. They could lie about their role or if someone claims they were RB'ed or someone says they tracked another player instead of having the player who is the actual tracker claim you know who that player actually is and to say that scum doesn't like is a fallacy. With a game that has a probability of some roles not existing it is easy to fake claim a role.

All of this is completely independent of how scummy I think the player is.

[Devotress]

I agree that bouncy is VI, and I believe he is the rolecop, for what it's worth.

[Hoopla]

Wow 5 pages during my sleep? I'm reading through them now.

[Hoopla]

I'm surprised how much traction my theory about the other reasons he could have claimed role-cop has taken. The random.org thing is bizarre, why would we say that if he had a scumteam though. I can't imagine him not being coached through this situation if he's that clueless about the claiming process.

Fate was questioning my reluctance to lynch bouncy (a power role), which seems to conflict my previous statements about lynching based on suspicions. To this I say, if something doesn't seem scum motivated, that can take a lot of the wind out of the sails sometimes. Claims are great ways to figure out motivations, and I'm struggling to figure out what bouncy's is.

It doesn't make sense to play this way if he has a scumteam talking to him, telling him what to do. You know?

[Hoopla]

YOU ROLECOP YOUR SCUM SUSPECTS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO LIE ABOUT THEIR ROLE.

That is all.

^scum... coaching bouncy.

If bouncy actually flips role cop, we can look into Socrates as #1 scum pick.

No one put bouncy at L-1. He will self-hammer to try to stop PRs from sending in actions.

PRs: Catch up and send in action.

Why would scum coach in thread?

[Fate]

It doesn't make sense to play this way if he has a scumteam talking to him, telling him what to do. You know?

Yeah sure if he was on AIM with his scumteam through this whole event, asking them what to post in each situation, I'd buy it.

Scum usually act independently of each other, don't overestimate the power of scum boards. I'm playing a game as scum offsite with a scumboard (not nightless) and a lot of our players did sketchy moves without asking first.

The fact that I was asking you to lynch based scum tells, and not numbers, but then calling you out for doing the former is not a contradiction. Are you suggesting you altered your play based off my advice?

The stubborn Hoopla? HA!

Devotress defends bouncy too, interesting. I really think scum would have abadoned bouncy at this point, and I'll admit VI is the only real counter-claim against my tunneling, but I don't care. VI's and anti-town vigs should be lynched all the same.

What if he scans someone else poorly and outs them? We can't let him live regardless of alignment.

[Fate]

Also the Socrates coaching thing was a joke, or maybe Socrates was WIFOM coaching!

[Hoopla]

The fact that I was asking you to lynch based scum tells, and not numbers, but then calling you out for doing the former is not a contradiction. Are you suggesting you altered your play based off my advice?

No, I altered my tactics based on there being a lot more information to work with. I stated multiple times on Day 1, we should only lynch based purely on numbers on Day 1. Thereafter, we have enough information to make more accurate choices, and numbers should be a back-up.

Bouncy still has a decent chance of being scum, based on numbers alone and his refusal to play the game, but it doesn't make sense as scum (granted, it doesn't make sense as town either). At the moment, I'd prefer Socrates or RayFrost over this lynch.

[Fate]

At the moment, I'd prefer Socrates or RayFrost over this lynch.

Um. You realize RayFrost has been confirmed Tracker, right? Is there any reason for scum to have this role?

[RayFrost]

I was surprised I got tracker, tbh.

I expected to end up a VT.

[Hoopla]

At the moment, I'd prefer Socrates or RayFrost over this lynch.

Um. You realize RayFrost has been confirmed Tracker, right? Is there any reason for scum to have this role?

HAHAHA, I'm an idiot. I don't know why I forgot this.

[Hoopla]

RayFrost is probably town. The only motivation for scum to take this, is to create some vanillas thinking a lot of townies would go for it early-ish. But they would only do this if they had other high draft picks.

~~

Thinking out loud; Fate is probably town too. He didn't crack under pressure when he was wagoned D1 - usually scum are eager to claim to disspell a wagon on them and buy more time. It kind of makes me think that maybe scum have pulled some ridiculous gambit of doubling/tripling up to put pressure on the top order of the draft.

Although, Bouncy could be a good information lynch to reassess numbers and try and figure where scum is likelier to be. And his role isn't exactly helpful for town in general, and especially now that he's outted. I think this is a good percentage play.

[RedCoyote]

MS is moving especially slow for me tonight. Hopefully I will get a chance to catch up tomorrow.

[DocPotter]

In favour of the Bouncy lynch.

So much I don't like. Especially Ray breadcrumbing before Bouncy revealed.