Open 205 - Medical Mafia - Game Over Too Soon?

[DiscoRoboto]

Agreed to some of mykonian's strat

However, i think we need to predict who the mafia are going to kill. Un-necessary losses will somewhat hurt our cause. We could essentially have 3 doctors die on us in one night, and that will greatly destroy our chances at winning.

Eh, what?

If 'we' predict who the mafia is going to kill, the mafia will be able to influence us. Besides, we will be telling the mafia who we predict will be killed. Opens up so much more possibilities for mafia.
Besides, we don't know who kills and who protects right now, so why would be predict it? Right now there is no real profit to this for town.

But seeing Mindgamer's post, I'm really doubting if you deserve my vote with your horrendous plan.

Vote: Mykonian

Why do you want to make the circle yourself?

Also, Gymmo, if you disagree with the plan, what do think about knowing your PR? Should we ignore it or do you have a better plan?

Vote Count #1

mykonian (2) - Mindgamer, DiscoRoboto

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[SaintKerrigan]

Especially you, XScorpion

Why XScorpion in particular?

I disagree with Mykonian's plan. There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town; it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents, and it gives the mafia a clean nightkill. His proposal to set up the circle himself is also suspect.

However, the plan may not be all that great, but I'm not sure that he's scum simply for suggesting it. It's too bold a move, and I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that.

[XScorpion]

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

[kyle99]

Well, Mykonian's plan is certainty different, someone did a sorta-similar thing in another game, unfortunately that game is still going on, so I don't really know what he was.

It's certainly possible he's scum, but I'm not gonna put him at L1 quite yet.

FoS: Mykonian

[Looker]

Especially you, XScorpion

Why XScorpion in particular?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game

---

vote kyle

- I don't like how you publicly express your ability to refrain from placing Mykonian at L-1
- We're going to need competing bandwagons if this lynch is going to be accurate and worthwhile
- You basically said nothing in your last post.
Pick someone to sacrifice.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game

Okay. Was just curious.

I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Examples, plz?

Vote: Looker.

Kyle is correct to not place Mykonian at L-1. L-2 is pretty strong in early game, and L-1 is just too strong. Plus, not saying a lot at this stage of the game is hardly a crime. If he continues to say nothing, then you've got a point.

[Looker]

@SaintKerrigan
You vote me because you find my vote suspicious?

---

@Light & Danny
What are your opinions of Mykonian's plan and the subsequent jumping of individuals upon his case?

[Looker]

EBWOP
@SaintKerrigan
Or is it just as good a vote as any?

[SaintKerrigan]

@SaintKerrigan
You vote me because you find my vote suspicious?

That, and I got the mod to tell me who the scum were in return for "favors".

[Looker]

I don't see what's so suspicious. I stated reasoning as to why I voted him - was it the reasoning that aroused your suspicions?

---

Is this your version of the RVS?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Looker: What are your thoughts on Mykonian?

Just because you state reasons for a vote does not mean the vote isn't suspicious. In other words, yes, your reasoning aroused suspicion. It just reads as fluff reasoning to me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Is this your version of the RVS?

Who knows?

[Looker]

@ Looker: What are your thoughts on Mykonian?

Just because you state reasons for a vote does not mean the vote isn't suspicious. In other words, yes, your reasoning aroused suspicion. It just reads as fluff reasoning to me.

- My thoughts on Mykonian are that he needs to vote.

RE: Fluff Reasoning
- Okay. So far, that's the best I could come up with.

[SaintKerrigan]

- My thoughts on Mykonian are that he needs to vote.

What about opinions on his plan? Part of the reason you're voting Kyle is his reaction to Mykonian. Given that, I'd expect you to have more opinion than just "he needs to vote."

Although he not only needs to do that, he needs to post. I'm really interested in seeing what he has to say about all this pressure barreling down on him.

[Looker]

vote kyle

- I don't like how you publicly express your ability to refrain from placing Mykonian at L-1
- We're going to need competing bandwagons if this lynch is going to be accurate and worthwhile
- You basically said nothing in your last post.
Pick someone to sacrifice.

- I voted Kyle not due to his opinion of Mykonian's plan, but because he publicly expressed "I'm not putting him at L-1"
- The second bullet was simply utilization of the mechanics of the game. We'll need multiple wagons to make today's lynch more "democratic"
- A valid point.

- My thoughts on Mykonian are that he needs to vote.

What about opinions on his plan? Part of the reason you're voting Kyle is his reaction to Mykonian. Given that, I'd expect you to have more opinion than just "he needs to vote."

To be honest, I'm not going to vote Mykonian based on the ramifications of his plan, probably because I wasn't going to follow it anyway. I'm not going to vote him based on his competence or lack thereof as a player; that doesn't bother me because I'm going to do what I do/want regardless and I'd encourage all of you to do the same, at least until we can all agree upon someone we believe to be guaranteed Town.

[SaintKerrigan]

- I voted Kyle not due to his opinion of Mykonian's plan, but because he publicly expressed "I'm not putting him at L-1"

And why is public expression of not wanting to put someone at L-1 scummy?

- The second bullet was simply utilization of the mechanics of the game. We'll need multiple wagons to make today's lynch more "democratic"

This looks more like using game mechanics as a point against someone, which I find scummy.

- A valid point.

Could you clarify? Does it mean you think your point is valid, or does it mean my objection to that point is valid?

To be honest, I'm not going to vote Mykonian based on the ramifications of his plan, probably because I wasn't going to follow it anyway. I'm not going to vote him based on his competence or lack thereof as a player; that doesn't bother me because I'm going to do what I do/want regardless and I'd encourage all of you to do the same, at least until we can all agree upon someone we believe to be guaranteed Town.

So you take his plan as a null-tell, then? I agree that you shouldn't vote people simply because of the way they play. All the same, why did you include that in your response to my post, which had no mention of how I think Mykonian plays?

[Looker]

1. Because that's all he did. He popped in, said "I'm not putting him at L-1", and then popped out. It just sorta stuck out to me. Do you disagree?

2. Not necessarily using it as a reason to vote him, just a point in explaining why I wasn't hesitant to vote him.

3. I was stating that he really didn't say anything in that post he posted, which would make my third point a valid one. Sorry for the confusion.

4. I just felt that that was where this discussion was going and I wanted to put that out in the open beforehand. They discuss plans and statistics and probabilities and it seems more players express a sense of gravity when it comes to these topics, but, to be honest, I don't too much care for them. They have their place, but they're not nearly as serious and as (I guess I would say "strict") as some make them out to be. I still don't like the thought of a "Town Leader", though, unless, of course, that Leader is me. Otherwise it's not worth the risk.

[SaintKerrigan]

1. Yes, I do disagree. He announced that Mykonian could be scum, but that he didn't want to put him at L-1. Instead, he FoSed him. I think that is an appropriate response for someone who isn't sure how to interpret Mykonian's plan.

2. Not sure I buy your explanation. To me, it looks more like you needing to add a reason to vote Kyle, so you used the game mechanics to provide one.

3. Like I said earlier, not having anything (or much) to say at this stage of the game is a null-tell. If he continues to say nothing or not much, then you've got a valid point. I think you pulled the punch a little too early.

4. Interesting assumption, but ok. Although I would like a simple yes or no answer in response to "Do you think Mykonian's plan is a nulltell".

[XScorpion]

The first I remember was when someone suggested a follow-the-cop strategy, although it didn't go through because there ended up being no cop...it seemed like rolefishing to me anyway.
I guess you could just say I'm wary about the last game where a scum started the game by killing the RVS (I like RVS) and asking a bunch of role-fishing questions.
Obviously rolefishing is kind of pointless here, but I'm still wary of people with those 'innovative' ideas that kill my beloved RVS.

[Alduskkel]

Looks like some drinks are getting shaken up already...

Day 1 has officially started. The deadline is set for the end of March 10th, PST.

[mykonian]

Good luck / Have fun everyone.

Very interesting setup.

Well, it seems like our night strategy will be more important than our day discussion.

And that's why I'm calling Mykonian scum right now. His 'Great Plan' of doing the Night Actions in a circle pattern leads to an easy Mafia win.

We have nine players, player A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I. Let's say A and B are scum. Let's say the random circle will be E -> C -> A -> H -> I -> B -> F-> G -> D -> E.

The mafia know who the mafia and town are, so the doctors who will be 'protected' by the mafia won't be protected at all, so one of them will be killed by the mafia. The mafia now have a sure kill instead of a maybe kill. Additionally, the CPR Doctor and Quack Doctor will certainly kill because there are no other doctors protecting their victims. So, the next day we have three dead doctors. What a great strategy.

It's not flawless though. The CPR Doctor and the Quack Doctor can target the mafia so there's a chance both mafia will be killed by them. How to prevent this? By making sure that one of the mafia 'protects' the other mafia, so at least one of them will live. This requires that the circle is not random though, and this is where Mykonian's last post comes in, he requests in bold that he himself should make the circle. Mykonian wants to claim the circle so he can manipulate it.

Vote: Mykonian

For his mafia plan. Oh, and he's also trying to stop any discussion by suggesting that 'we better lynch right today'. Can he get any more scummy?

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill? And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway? And mykonian already knew that scum have to be next to each other in the circle, and that they should be "forced" to kill another scummy player.

Mykonian would rather have a towny choosing this circle, since then he is certain such a circle gets formed. From Mykonians point of view, there are only 2 people that are confirmed town: he, and the nurse. But mykonian doubts it is a good idea to let the nurse claim.

And what is that last thing? how am I stopping discussion when I'm starting it?

@Looker, I don't vote pregame.

Especially you, XScorpion

Why XScorpion in particular?

I disagree with Mykonian's plan.

There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town

;

it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents

, and it gives the mafia a clean nightkill.

His proposal to set up the circle himself is also suspect.

However, the plan may not be all that great, but I'm not sure that he's scum simply for suggesting it. It's too bold a move, and I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that.

@ all the bolded: why?

And for you people thinking there is a better strategy. There might be one. But I know that one is good for town, and that is not using night-powers. We have the choice, do that, or use "random" actions, since we don't know what we are doing.

The best thing about the circle, is that we will know what will happen next.

Some people said the kills in the circle were random. This is correct. That means they more likely hit a towny then scum. But scumkills never hit scum. This way you have 2 more way's to hit scum.

and why is it suspect to propose to make that circle yourself? Because town wants control so scum won't manipulate it?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

The first I remember was when someone suggested a follow-the-cop strategy, although it didn't go through because there ended up being no cop...it seemed like rolefishing to me anyway.
I guess you could just say I'm wary about the last game where a scum started the game by killing the RVS (I like RVS) and asking a bunch of role-fishing questions.
Obviously rolefishing is kind of pointless here, but I'm still wary of people with those 'innovative' ideas that kill my beloved RVS.

OMG there are people that

think

. Now, why are you excusing yourself for something that seems wrong, but you just can´t help it?

I wished I was a doublevoter

[XScorpion]

Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

Because the reasons behind why your plan is horrible have already been given. Mindgamer said it best: assuming you are scum, your plan was to construct the circle yourself, organize it so that scum will be next to each other, then watch as 3 doctors get killed tonight.
If "not using night powers" was such a good strategy, why didn't you suggest it first?
I don't understand what this means:

Now, why are you excusing yourself for something that seems wrong, but you just can´t help it?

On a side note, I don't think I've heard anything scummier than this yet:

Well, it seems like our night strategy will be more important than our day discussion.

This just screams scum to me.

[XScorpion]

P.S. Only obv. scum speak in third person.

[DiscoRoboto]

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

And mykonian already knew that scum have to be next to each other in the circle, and that they should be "forced" to kill another scummy player.

Mykonian would rather have a towny choosing this circle, since then he is certain such a circle gets formed. From Mykonians point of view, there are only 2 people that are confirmed town: he, and the nurse.

But mykonian doubts it is a good idea to let the nurse claim.

Where

did he imply you said that? He merely said that the mafia has a CLEAR shot.

That's

irrelevent, he obviously didn't suggest a plan, but we don't have to divert attention to that right now.

Well,

we all know that of ourselves. Why you? Scroll down to see a suggestion.

and why is it suspect to propose to make that circle yourself? Because town wants control so scum won't manipulate it?

Because you aren't cleared town in our eyes.

I suggest doing a town-event vote for the one who makes the circle

,

if

(and only IF) everyone (or at least a vast majority) agrees on going through with it.
We will elect a player to make the circle by majority voting, we can easily set a deadline of, say, a week (only an example).
If we go through with this I can do the votecounts if necessary.
I'm suggesting this plan because it's the closest we can get to a fair choice on the 'circle-maker'. This is pretty much the same as a lynch but in this case we actually have more chance to hit a towny instead of a mafia. Profitable? In my eyes it is.

I'm personally not sure on wether we should actually do a circle or not, so I would like the people to speak. Any comments on doing a circle or not? If yes, what do you think about doing a majority vote?

[kyle99]

1. Because that's all he did. He popped in, said "I'm not putting him at L-1", and then popped out. It just sorta stuck out to me. Do you disagree?

2. Not necessarily using it as a reason to vote him, just a point in explaining why I wasn't hesitant to vote him.

3. I was stating that he really didn't say anything in that post he posted, which would make my third point a valid one. Sorry for the confusion.

4. I just felt that that was where this discussion was going and I wanted to put that out in the open beforehand. They discuss plans and statistics and probabilities and it seems more players express a sense of gravity when it comes to these topics, but, to be honest, I don't too much care for them. They have their place, but they're not nearly as serious and as (I guess I would say "strict") as some make them out to be. I still don't like the thought of a "Town Leader", though, unless, of course, that Leader is me. Otherwise it's not worth the risk.

Wow looker, your reasoning is awful. You voted me because I didn't put someone at L1 before the mod even announces day one has started, and your vote seems to be just to start up a competing wagon to the Mykonian wagon. Scum-buddying, perhaps?