Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[DeathRowKitty]

@Monkey
Any comments on the more recent developments? What do you think of Sakako?

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey: The reverse, actually, if you read that. I hate all random votes, but random votes which are the only vote on that player are excusable because they are so common.

You can feel free to suspect me for this. I honestly could care less. I've been lynched for it before, but I'm not going to change my playstyle to appear more townie, since that's what scum players do, and since I don't want to ring any false bells based on that. I can link to at least 3-4 games in which I make these same arguments as town, and if you check my Wiki page (Last updated November 2009, I really need to update), I emphasize the same sentiments.

Just because something is common or uncommon is not a logical reason for something to be scummy or not scummy. There are things that are scummy that happen quite frequently, and things that are townish that are quite rare. Lurking, for example, is a frequent scum tactic. Likewise, having made an argument in a previous game does not make you less scummy in this game.

This was absolutely a terrible defence post and I recommend more votes on you with quick haste.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Monkey
Any comments on the more recent developments? What do you think of Sakako?

I've got a scum read on him. His "I suck at scumhunting" comment seems like a lack of commitment to help the town.

[Netopalis]

Fair enough. You can think that. It's something that I say repeatedly, though, and I think that most people who say that they feel with some certainty that somebody is scummy within the first 4 pages is lying in an attempt to look more pro-town, regardless of their alignment. There is simply not enough information on which to base a solid, logical and cohesive case. This is slowly changing, but prior to this discussion, there was absolutely nothing to work with.

[Netopalis]

That second sentence is a mush. It should be:

"...and I think that anybody who says with any amount of certainty that a specific player is scummy within the first 4 pages is lying in an attempt to look pro-town, regardless of their actual alignment."

[DeathRowKitty]

The whole "I don't participate in the RVS" routine is a null tell. And one that's far too common, I might add.

Neto's defense wasn't bad because your attack wasn't good in the first place. There really wasn't anything to defend.

And you didn't say what you think of Sakako.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, nvm on that last part. I misinterpreted your post as referring to Neto instead of Sakako.

[Netopalis]

Incidentally, just for a bit of added value, I'm leaning town on Sakako right now. His play is consistent with the newbie town profile at this point. That being said, I'm going to sleep on it and think about it some more.

[Espeonage]

This was absolutely a terrible defence post and I recommend more votes on you with quick haste.

And what the hell was that?
Seriously, it is almost as if you are requesting people to settle on the neto lynch pronto without any furthur discussion when we have over a fortnight left in this phase. We are barely out of the RVS and you already want a lynch.
I said I had nowhere to place a vote. Well now I do.

Vote: Monkey

[MonkeyMan576]

This was absolutely a terrible defence post and I recommend more votes on you with quick haste.

And what the hell was that?
Seriously, it is almost as if you are requesting people to settle on the neto lynch pronto without any furthur discussion when we have over a fortnight left in this phase. We are barely out of the RVS and you already want a lynch.
I said I had nowhere to place a vote. Well now I do.

Vote: Monkey

I didn't say I wanted a lynch. I said based on his lousy defeece I've got a strong scum read on him. Thats different that wanting an immediate lynch.

[Sakako]

@DRK: Here's how I think it could work:

1. Find some pithy little case on someone
2. Repeatedly word the question about that case in a different manner in an attempt to cause them to contradict themselves
3. Use that contradiction as a major scum-tell
4. Lynch a townsperson.

That's why I think it's a trap.

@Reck: I don't actually know how many votes people have got on whom (and I know, I should look after this) - but if you're counting me voting to put someone at L-4 (yes, count it, L-4 - I don't really think that's pressuring or anythng at all) then I think you have a very flimsy case.

[xRECKONERx]

Monkey and Sakako are a potential scumteam.

Discuss.

[Netopalis]

I'm not exactly sure what you find scummy about it, nor how exactly my defense was lousy and/or what you would consider to be strong evidence in a defense. It seems as if your whole point in asking the question to begin with was to ask me a question in which any defense would appear to be weak, allowing you to attack me, which is convenient as I already have the most votes.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey and Sakako are a potential scumteam.

Discuss.

Random Player X and Random Player Y are a potential scumteam(as long as its not me). Discuss.

[Netopalis]

Reckoner: I don't think so, at least, not at this stage of the game. I think that Monkey is the more likely of the two, but I don't see a lot of connection between them, nor do I see obvious distancing.

[Netopalis]

Monkey and Sakako are a potential scumteam.

Discuss.

Random Player X and Random Player Y are a potential scumteam(as long as its not me). Discuss.

This was absolutely a terrible defence post and I recommend more votes on you with quick haste.

[Netopalis]

Oh, and incidentally..

Vote: MonkeyMan576

[DeathRowKitty]

Monkey and Sakako are a potential scumteam.

Discuss.

Possible. I'd say it's unlikely at this point. The possible deflection by Monkey was in fact noted though.

Random Player X and Random Player Y are a potential scumteam(as long as its not me). Discuss.

If we assume 3 scum, this is trivially true.

@DRK: Here's how I think it could work:

1. Find some pithy little case on someone
2. Repeatedly word the question about that case in a different manner in an attempt to cause them to contradict themselves
3. Use that contradiction as a major scum-tell
4. Lynch a townsperson.

That's why I think it's a trap.

You suddenly seem very sure of this. Why?

[Sakako]

I'm not sure it's a trap. I just think it could be. Why? Because I've fallen for similar tactics (although I'm pretty sure that the person already knew I was scum and was just getting me lynched; it's a handy tool for pro-town players aswell but only if they're 100% sure that the trap-ee is scum already. I don't see that happening in this case.)

[Netopalis]

Your analogy is flawed. The reason that was able to work was because you were scum and had presumably slipped up elsewhere. I also think it's marginally scummy that this is the example that you're choosing to hinge things on - it indicates (at least to me) the approach of the game from a perspective of not getting lynched vs. finding scum.

[Netopalis]

Oh, and BTW:

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I worded my post badly. At first, you said it "could have been" a trap. Then you changed that to "I think it's a trap." Now, you just said "I just think it could be."

What changed between your first post and your second or your second post and your third?

[Sakako]

Well I don't really care if I get lynched, it will just be annoying having to wait for a while.

Sorry if I can't practice scumhunting - I'm actually trying pretty hard here, you know. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, but I'm actually trying to save you here, Neto.

[MonkeyMan576]

Random Player X and Random Player Y are a potential scumteam(as long as its not me). Discuss.

If we assume 3 scum, this is trivially true.

Why would you assume someone is scum based on random selection?

[Netopalis]

Really? That's an odd approach, especially since it doesn't really seem like I need saving. In fact, it seems like your last post is an appeal to emotion for me to drop the case against you.