Mindgamer 539 wrote:Should I ignore that just because he's a newbie? Of course not. I think his departure is indicative of his alignment though. If he was scum, he would just try to counter my arguments. But if he was town , he could think he was doing a poor job because I was pointing out flaws.
Mindgamer, I was just messing with you, lol. I'm sorry; it's hard to convey tone over the Internet. I was just giving you a hard time. I don't dislike you, and I'm not scumbuddies with The Tracker.
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cruelty 541 wrote:Did you want to?
I made it pretty clear that I did not.
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Ed 545 wrote:Well, because I don't really have much time or energy to deal with posting real content, here's a filler post that says who make up this hydra.
What does hydra mean? I've heard it multiple times recently, and I just can't place it within the context.
In general, just so you know, I'm completely lost with this entire post.
Ed 548 wrote:Who's interested in a faraday lynch?
I have no problem with it. While Faraday and I haven't seen eye to eye, at least I can tell he has a backbone. I was extremely put off by Flare for almost the entire time he was around. Indeed, Flare D1 was my scumpick. Even coming into D2, in the post I voted cruelty, I was seriously debating whether or not I should've just continued to grill Flare.
Ed 549 wrote:viewtopic.php?t=11680 is the link from Vi's other game that I referenced.
The only think that really sticks out to me here is the Miller/No Cop.
Which, coupled with what I understand to be Vi's resistance to the Cop role in general, would give Hoopla more breathing room in my outlook of this game.
Deadline is in -- oh, just check the front page. If there is no majority yada yada yada horseradish etc. If a replacement for The Tracker is not found by deadline, TOO BAD. If a replacement for Nachomamma8 is not found by deadline, Nachomamma8 will probably want to rejoin the game when he comes back from V/LA around that time.
Also, I just started being really busy recently, so forgive my potential lack of presence in this game.
A hydra is an account where one or more individuals know the password and operate under that name.
The players discuss their reads, etc, so it's basically like having masons for a player slot, I guess.
In this case, both amished and myself know the password to the EdFrost account, and we both operate in its games. Amished is the designated voter in that I won't be doing any votes or unvotes for us.
Basically, Amished and RayFrost = people that fill this player slot using one account.
Is that clear?
In a separate post, you will be able to view me suddenly dropping a five ton weight upon cruelty's head. Or, depending upon how I feel, it may be a feather weight. We will see.
last game i played with amished he went mental, posting a LOT. this is a big departure.
Hahahaha.
Not only are you trying to meta somebody off of
one
game, but you are not even considering the circumstances that differ between the situations.
Mindless Meta (tm) only takes you so far before you screw up. (as in, it takes you about one baby step forward)
I doubt you are dumb enough to think otherwise, so, giving you a bit of respect here: I'm going to assume that you were deliberately trying to rub sludge upon the player slot based off of completely lacking and poor reasoning rather than assume that you were being stupid.
Following through with this, town wouldn't be trying to deliberately make another player seem scummy based off of crap reasoning, as it goes against making real cases, etc, etc, etc.
So you have lost 15% of your grade in the class.
Now, for your next assignment, tell me the top two/three who you think are most likely to be scum with 5 points each. This assignment is worth 50% of your course grade, and I will dock points for lack of originality and honest analysis.
You have one day to finish this assignment. Failure to do so will, of course, earn you a 0.
There's "only one reason that you're voting me"; so what's the rest of it? Fluff? I've pointed out what either should be a null-tell or influence your position on me towards town or mindgamer towards scum.
Um cmon? That was obviously sarcasm @ the one reason thing, not everythng needs an eye rolling smiley. And I meant to say would be voting you, oops! I'm aware where my vote is, actually.
Also, since you've stated that I've basically been null/done nothing to change a read on a previous player, let's do a similar search for angel, mouse, or angelmouse or just AM to find what you thought was so scummy about ..her?
Wait, I previously thought I hadn't mentioned her? What's changed, decided to actually go back and check?
The Joke thing apparently is a big deal; but it doesn't apply to mindgamer; even though we did it first and he copied us? Ok....
Uh of course it applies? It's scummy, but I don't think he's scum overall. I'm not going to go through and list the scum tells of someone I think is town, so what exactly is your problem.
A FoS is scummy on page 2. I don't know about you but angel was rather newbie, and read like it. She had 230 (about) posts in the almost 2 years that she's been here. So since you're adjusting for general playstyle [that should be taken into consideration.
Except these are two completely different scenarios. Overdefensiveness is not me adjusting to anything, it's not a tell, at all barring some weird surruounding factors, I guess, but I can't think of anything right now.
Having neutral reads isn't scummy; at least if you're not scum, right? You said you have neutral reads so why is it, exactly, that makes angel's neutral reads scummy and not yours?
The sheer amount of them and unwillingess to take a stand on people.
I know exactly why opinion changed on you; but my point was that the radical playstyle difference timing was rather opportunistic from my perspective. Obviously it's unfortunate if you're town; but from my experience it's not hard to juggle two games. I'm in... 4? right now and I've been prodded once in all of them (and I was just killed in a 5th that I was dealing with as well.
This is just stupid. What you can handle =/= what everyone else can handle. That should be obvious, so I don't see what your point here is.
Hey cruelty what was that game you played with Amished, I don't believe I've played with him before (?). And only thing with rayfrost completed was realistic, which he didn't last long in.
Anyway see ya tomorrow some time, hopefully.
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
you're reading too much into that, wasn't really trying to imply anything in terms of the game, was more along the lines of a poorly worded 'oh wouldn't have recognised you'. i guess that's my bad.
jumping all over me for that is interesting though - i've never really had any particular reason to dislike your slot (i've read faraday's post and i see what he's saying, but didn't really feel the scumminess) so i haven't really engaged you at all. it is noted that the first time you've really interacted with me is an enormously indepth read into something (i consider to be) completely innocent. i guess time will tell as to our alignments but for now i'm gonna dismiss you as one of those irritating over-enthusiastic townies who have eureka moments all the time about things which amount to nothing.
giving me a bit of respect? followed quickly by your condescending teacher routine? that's cool.
@faraday, no idea. i think it was a newbie game but i never bothered keeping track of games i've been in so i can't direct you to the specific one (since the find all posts function has gone).
Ed 552 wrote:A hydra is an account where one or more individuals know the password and operate under that name.
The players discuss their reads, etc, so it's basically like having masons for a player slot, I guess.
In this case, both amished and myself know the password to the EdFrost account, and we both operate in its games. Amished is the designated voter in that I won't be doing any votes or unvotes for us.
Oh cool, what an interesting concept.
I was wondering what you meant when you said you had played with me before, lol.
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Faraday 554 wrote:The sheer amount of them and unwillingess to take a stand on people.
RedCoyote wrote:Oh cool, what an interesting concept.
You should have at look at two of Adel's hydra games (run simultaneously) - here and here. Every player had to play in a hydra, but was in both games ran separately, with quick deadlines. It was fun.
I'd actually be ok with a Faraday lynch since the Mindgamer wagon stalled hardcore. I still don't like it happening, but I'm feeling like I might have to compromise here to make things work out.
Also, for anyone who hasn't played with each of these two characters - both are very clever, skilled players. It's a pretty big threat that they're combined.
Although, RayFrost kinda sucks sometimes, let's hope that's one of these times
Ski mask? Check! Sawed off? Check! Guilty conscience, fear of death? Check! Check! Check!
AGar wrote:I'd actually be ok with a Faraday lynch since the Mindgamer wagon stalled hardcore. I still don't like it happening, but I'm feeling like I might have to compromise here to make things work out.
Could you explain why you would be ok with a Faraday lynch? You haven't said anything about him at all yet.
AGar wrote:Also, for anyone who hasn't played with each of these two characters - both are very clever, skilled players. It's a pretty big threat that they're combined.
Two skilled players combined... that can mean either a big help or a big threat. What makes you think EdFrost is a big threat? Do you have a scum read on him/them?
I'm not going to participate in a Faraday lynch, because he's my strongest town read at the moment. My scumlist at the moment is as follows:
RC - been over why. my articulation hasn't been the best but i think he's inconsistent and contradictory.
This is followed up by a vague uneasiness towards hoopla (not sure why, I've been re-reading her posts to try to work it out with no success, haven't said anything because i quite honestly can't work out why i feel this way) which isn't nearly as strong as RC and a nagging concern about Agar who hasn't really taken a strong stance on anything and has conceded a willingness to be on several wagons today (RC, nacho, faraday, mindgamer).
cruelty wrote:Unwilling to lynch Quagmire, but happy to push the possibility that I might do the same thing tomorrow?
RC wrote:What do you mean?
I voted Quagmire...
cruelty wrote:Did you want to?
RC wrote:I made it pretty clear that I did not.
Just seems odd to me that you'd use the fact that I (might) tunnel on someone as a point to push my lynch, when you were opposed to a quagmire lynch based on his play not being scummy.
To be clear, I'm drawing a comparison between an unwillingness to lynch quagmire due to his playstyle, and a willingness to do the same thing to me. I can concede that you might find me scummy, but I find this to be inherently contradictory.
Ok, this is me {Amished} explaining my Faraday thing. Unfortunately I don't think a wagon will take off on him this close to the deadline so it's something that I want out there for posterity's sake.
If you follow Vi's modding practices, game reviews (which Vi does a lot of) or mafia discussion posts; you'll know that Vi takes the position that Cop/Doc combos are broken.
I don't know why this didn't register but I attribute *major* differences in reads as either scummy or a power role of some sort. Such as Faraday's stance that cruelty was townie for Faraday and one of the top three suspects for both Ray and I. I initially assumed that he was a cop with an innocent on cruel OR a guilty on RedCoyote. Either way, I pegged him for a cop with a result. Then with his stance on me vs. mindgamer; a cop would have more sense than that as they're pro-town and townies are generally consistent in their stances.
Now, go back to my first point about Vi reviewing the setup. She's a fan of having millers without cops (game I linked to). There's a doc DEAD already (rest Quag's soul). However, the twist comes in when it's a CPR doc (kills if the person isn't targeted in the night) that had been lynched. Now, there's three ways a CPR doc can play, using their killing power like a vig, using it as a risky regular doc, or not acting and waiting for a legit power role to show up and claim to protect them that night. In two of these situations; it would give something the FBI agent to be paranoid about (two kills on pro-town people (for the risky protect), a kill on a pro-town and an anti-town (vig-like)).
Of course with a doc dead and only 1 kill, it's highly likely that there isn't an SK, but it's that layer of complexity that Vi does like in her games. So because Vi reviewed, I pretty much 100% believe that the miller and FBI agent claim are both true.
Also, with the doc dead (and a tracker); with Vi's "meta" of thinking that the cop/doc combo have broken the game of mafia, Faraday can't be the cop (as I had originally thought) because there won't *be* a cop. His dualism is just scum behavior; and I believe that his weird cruelty-town read is him trying to cover for a buddy.
As I and Ray both believe cruel to be scum for some similar and some differing opinions:
Unvote
Vote: cruelty
This is the best place for our vote today, especially concerning our reads on the players voting for cruelty at this time.
My townflip would change your Faraday read, I assume?
I could be completely off-base with this giving I have no knowledge of the moderating process, but:
Cruciare wrote:This setup was conceived by a sadistic madman and reviewed by aliens.
In the original quote the word aliens is linked to Vi's profile, so using my powers of deduction I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that she didn't actually create the setup, merely reviewed it to ensure balance. If that's true (and really, I see no reason it wouldn't be) then trying to breakdown the setup based on Vi's preferences seems a little foolish.
If the above is true (that is, Vi didn't actually -create- the setup) then your read into Faraday becomes questionable too.
Basically, I think the above post is a load of shit, I think that it's completely meaningless in that you're making assumptions about the creation of the rules (even the creator) and trying to apply them in-game. It's weak and illogical reasoning, which is something you (well, your pal) accused me of displaying earlier. Dislike, +scumpoints.
Hoopla 559 wrote:Every player had to play in a hydra, but was in both games ran separately, with quick deadlines. It was fun.
It does look fun. I'll have to keep my eye out for anymore games with a hydra style to them.
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cruelty 565 wrote:Only really one scum read.
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cruelty 565 wrote:To be clear, I'm drawing a comparison between an unwillingness to lynch quagmire due to his playstyle, and a willingness to do the same thing to me.
Well, I think you'll get agreement nearly across the board that tunnelling is not optimal town (or mafia either for that matter) strategy.
Bottom line, you wouldn't have voted me or saw me as scum had I not voted you. I think we've proven as much. I have to go with the idea that either this is your playstyle, as you say, or that you thought you could both drown out my case and railroad me based on my Quagmire position. The latter seems more logical to me.
You thought you could get me strung up because, one, Hoopla was gunning for me, and two, my position on Quagmire. I imagine you thought that if you hadn't have acted aggressively against me specifically, that I could gain momentum for a cruelty wagon.
Let's look at this logically. I'll indulge in a little wifom (maybe you can mention it and use it against me!) too.
You attack me, that's fine. Your argument is that I turned around and took a second look at you because of this. Again, fine. I'd assume that most people look at who is voting them, especially if they're innocent.
The problem is the assumption that me taking aggressive action against you would somehow pull the focus off me and the impending wagon. This is where you're losing me - it'd make absolutely no sense for crueltyscum to attack you and thereby drawing attention to the both of us. Logic would dictate that the best play would be to try to bat away your concerns (which I haven't really tried to do) and work on shifting town focus away from me and onto a third party.
This isn't what I've done at all - I've deliberately drawn attention onto the both of us (more specifically, onto me), made no real attempt to derail the wagon on me and haven't even looked at anyone else. Yeah, wifom, but let's be real here. I'm not making an optimal scum play so I'm either really, really stupid scum (which I assure you I'm not), or I'm bad town.
It always amuses me when people attribute all these weirdo psychology-based arguments to my play, I find it hard to believe that people actually conceive of and act out these complicated plans. I don't, I'm basically a reactive player. I'm not particularly aggressive in terms of seeking out clues, I meander through the game until I find a thread and then I pull it until I'm happy with what I'm seeing. I'm not particularly happy with you, but this is documented. For now, it's bedtime.
post-preview edit:
1: Don't really care what Hoopla does. As stated, she makes me uneasy. Not as much as you, but my vote would be on you regardless of her.
2: I could be wrong, but I'm not entirely sure I mentioned your position on Quag's lynch until very recently (the last realtime day or three). If I thought I could get you strung up for that, why wouldn't I have mentioned it earlier? As stated, my initial issue with you was what I perceive to be inconsistencies within your post where you vote for me. (fuck it i'll look it up) I didn't bring up Quag's lynch until my post 30 - the first time I expressed suspicion of you was my post 23, a full real-time week later.
I think your arguments against me (setting aside OMGUS and tunnelling) are weak, you're inconsistent and you're contradictory (specifically with your attitude towards my playstyle vs Quag's).
cruelty 571 wrote:I've deliberately drawn attention onto the both of us (more specifically, onto me), made no real attempt to derail the wagon on me and haven't even looked at anyone else. Yeah, wifom, but let's be real here. I'm not making an optimal scum play so I'm either really, really stupid scum (which I assure you I'm not), or I'm bad town.
Come on, cruelty.
cruelty 417 wrote:
Hoopla wrote:mmm yeah, i think i side with cruelty here. hey cruelty, want to start a bandwagon on RC with me? It'll be fun.
Yeah, I got ya.
vote: RC
So I should've saw this as obviously town? I should've said, "Oh, I completely misunderstood you, let me unvote you now"?
cruelty 571 wrote:I'm not particularly aggressive in terms of seeking out clues, I meander through the game until I find a thread and then I pull it until I'm happy with what I'm seeing.
In other words, until they unvote you.
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We should start talking compromise lynches. I don't think much has changed on my front, except I'm no longer interested in lynching Hoopla.
cruelty, Faraday, or Mindgamer should be the lynch for today. Everyone needs to start getting out of their attack mode, because we can't rely on replacements getting here in time. It has been several days, and I haven't seen either "side" giving up an inch.
AGar wrote:I'd actually be ok with a Faraday lynch since the Mindgamer wagon stalled hardcore. I still don't like it happening, but I'm feeling like I might have to compromise here to make things work out.
Also, for anyone who hasn't played with each of these two characters - both are very clever, skilled players. It's a pretty big threat that they're combined.
Although, RayFrost kinda sucks sometimes, let's hope that's one of these times
What exactly are your current reads?
You've indicated that you'd lynch me or RC if it came down to it and are voting for mindgamer, is there like anyone else you'd lynch.
Thanks for telling us to keep aware of the Hydra too, I hadn't noticed.
EdFrost wrote:ell oh ell, reasoning is tech, mindgamer.
cruelty, who are your top three scum reads and why?
~ F
Not answering my question FTL
Plus I'm pretty sure mindgamer has already given reasons for his reads in his earlier post.
EdFrost wrote:
I don't know why this didn't register but I attribute *major* differences in reads as either scummy or a power role of some sort. Such as Faraday's stance that cruelty was townie for Faraday and one of the top three suspects for both Ray and I. I initially assumed that he was a cop with an innocent on cruel OR a guilty on RedCoyote. Either way, I pegged him for a cop with a result. Then with his stance on me vs. mindgamer; a cop would have more sense than that as they're pro-town and townies are generally consistent in their stances.
I don't quite understand how you think me being a cop would make all our reads different, surely there'd be one you'd be confused about and then that's it?
Now, go back to my first point about Vi reviewing the setup. She's a fan of having millers without cops (game I linked to). There's a doc DEAD already (rest Quag's soul). However, the twist comes in when it's a CPR doc (kills if the person isn't targeted in the night) that had been lynched. Now, there's three ways a CPR doc can play, using their killing power like a vig, using it as a risky regular doc, or not acting and waiting for a legit power role to show up and claim to protect them that night. In two of these situations; it would give something the FBI agent to be paranoid about (two kills on pro-town people (for the risky protect), a kill on a pro-town and an anti-town (vig-like)).
Obviously (to me) the optimal way to play CPR doc is indeed like a vig, and I think if you're balancing a game you have to sort of assume this, or at least I would anyway. I'd consider it a killing role for the purpose of the game, and I agree that there's no SK in the game, (also note a tracker/fbi agent would make the hypothethical SK's job pretty hard.
Is the current vote count from what I can see. Unfortunately while there are ten alive, we really only have an available 8 votes to move, this means 6/8 people playing must agree to lynch anyone (unless it's Mindgamer since there's votes already there) If you factor in that the person isn't going to vote for themselves, then basically 6/7 people are gonna be needed to vote for cruelty and Redcoyote.
The reason I'm saying this is I agree that it's time to start looking at the lynch. We have less than 2 days untill deadline, and obviously time for possible claims etc etc. and we need to have a full majority by that point too.
I don't suppose anyone wants to lynch Agar do they?
Top 3 people you want to lynch from everyone gogogo:
Mine are: Red/Ed/Agar
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
I think we're wallposting a little much right now. For what it's worth, I'm even more inclined to think of Edfrost as town after that fracas. It also puts Faraday in kind of a good light - I don't see scum fighting as hard as he is against who he is. Of course, quite frankly, I also don't see a pro-town player coming up with a list like Red/Ed/Agar - if we had an SK I'd peg Faraday in that slot, but since we apparently don't (unless he's withholding his skill or whatever) t I think I want to keep him around for his perspective (admittedly a perspective I think is totally wrong, but I'm not using my lynch to try to secure a town that agrees with me on everything!)
Faraday is right that we're gonna have a hell of a time getting a lynch today. This is my heartfelt plea to the people on the RC wagon in particular. Look. LOOK AT THE GAME. Cruelty is tunneling and basicially ignoring the game. After admitting he's doing it his response isn't "I actually have x,y, and z reads and it just didn't come up" or "I'm having issues reading players for these reasons" or even "sorry!", but instead can only come up with "sarcasm mixed with acknowledgment" and "I wouldn't be doing this as a scum play, would I?"
Coincidentally, the non-WIFOM answer to that last question is "Doesn't matter, it's a good scum play you're unwilling to change and the fact that it's an OBVIOUSLY good scum play isn't in any way a defense."
Also, cruelty, you asked something like 'who would you go after if I flipped town' and the answer is - wouldn't change a thing, really. It'd be a slight scum point for RC but the fact that you seem to be so uninvolved in this game means that your scum reads really aren't something to go by - being confirmed town doesn't make you confirmed right. When you're literally offering that your tunneling is so bad it can't be scummy as a defense, to then go on and say it should factor in to my day three+ decisions is pretty damn hilarious.
tl;dr version:
Dear Hoopla, Faraday, and AGar:
your next post either has a vote for cruelty or an explanation why {RC,Mindgamer} is a better lynch today. This would have to include cruelty's merits along with {RC,Mindgamer}'s scuminess.
love,
hito
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
