Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount:

TheButtonmen - (7) - AGar, The Quintastic One, Jack, Zhero, Fat_Tony, cruelty, Zang
Zang - (2) - PaltryExcuse, Vivi57
The Quintastic One – (1) – TheButtonmen
Sir Cyanide - (1) - StrangerCoug


TheButtonmen,

Vanilla Townie

, lynched day 1.

It is now night 1. Everybody with night actions has 72 hours to submit them.

[Wickedestjr]

PaltryExcuse,

Watcher

, killed night 1.

Day 2 begins now. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: February 29th

[PaltryExcuse]

PaltryExcuse,

Watcher

, killed night 1.

Crap. There goes my strongest pro-town read...

[Zang]

Ok here is some more reasoning for my vote

1.both cruelty and TQO wanted a lynch.
2.My list was not a list of scum tells but an overview of everything that tbm did
3.Tbm was not scum hunting, as you can see from my overview pretty much everything he did was accusing tqo of lying/changing his story

[The Quintastic One]

Good riddance to TBM, sucks about PaltryExcuse though. He wasn't the most active out of us, but when he did post it had meaning to it and purpose.

If it makes anyone feel more comfortable about the TBM lynch, I have no problems offering myself as today's lynch. Yeah that means another mislynch, but I don't mind taking one for the team if it'll mean Day 3 is more productive in finding the real scum.

I still feel Jack was very suspicious from yesterday, and after the whole roletalking stopped about who's the cop and doc he was alot less active unless the pressure was on him.

So I'm going to place my vote on Jack for now and see what happens.

Vote: Jack

[cruelty]

If it makes anyone feel more comfortable about the TBM lynch, I have no problems offering myself as today's lynch. Yeah that means another mislynch, but I don't mind taking one for the team

what the fuck man.

What is wrong with you? Why would you even say this?

[SIR CYANIDE]

Good riddance to TBM,

If it makes anyone feel more comfortable about the TBM lynch, I have no problems offering myself as today's lynch.

'the fuck is your problem?

[StrangerCoug]

1.both cruelty and TQO wanted a lynch.

You don't hammer people to make other people happy. Best case scenario, you're appeasing misguided townies. What I see more likely is that you're scum trying to get these two people on your good side.

2.My list was not a list of scum tells but an overview of everything that tbm did

So

THAT'S

why hardly anybody liked your "case" on him.

3.Tbm was not scum hunting, as you can see from my overview pretty much everything he did was accusing tqo of lying/changing his story

This is self-contradictory. TheButtonmen either was not scumhunting or accused The Quintastic One of being a liar changing his story. Both cannot be true.

I still like SIR CYANIDE as scum and The Quintastic One is back to his... playing badly (I can't think of a way to describe him that doesn't sound insulting to me), but damn, you're scummy.

Vote: Zang

[Jack]

Vote:cruelty

His awkward joining of the wagon is scummier than zang's hammer.

StrangerCoug is working back up my list too.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is working back up my list too.

How so?

[Vivi57]

Ok here is some more reasoning for my vote

1.both cruelty and TQO wanted a lynch.
2.My list was not a list of scum tells but an overview of everything that tbm did
3.Tbm was not scum hunting, as you can see from my overview pretty much everything he did was accusing tqo of lying/changing his story

1. either this means you believe 100% in them or you're trying to shift blame off yourself
2. so why does this make you want to lynch tbm?
3. he believed tqo was scum and was hunting him.


Zang changed his votes a ton on day1 and then changed his vote to get the lynch in the end. Nothing has changed to convince me that zang is anything other than scum.

Vote: Zang

[Zang]

Ok, it wasn't really reasoning but me pointing stuff out that you don't know-

1.

1. either this means you believe 100% in them or you're trying to shift blame off yourself

neither, I was pointing out that both tqo and cruelty believed that tbm should be lynched, and I will take 100% blame for my actions. Personaly, I believe that tqo is probably town but I'm not so sure about cruelty.

You don't hammer people to make other people happy. Best case scenario, you're appeasing misguided townies. What I see more likely is that you're scum trying to get these two people on your good side.

as I just said I wasn't really giving you reasoning for my vote, just pointing stuff out.

2.

2. so why does this make you want to lynch tbm?

look above

So

THAT'S

why hardly anybody liked your "case" on him.

I do not understand what you are saying

3.

3. he believed tqo was scum and was hunting him.

yes, he did believe tqo was scum but he was not hunting him, he just kept saying how much a liar tqo was and did not listen to anything else.

This is self-contradictory. TheButtonmen either was not scumhunting or accused The Quintastic One of being a liar changing his story. Both cannot be true.

look above

Zang changed his votes a ton on day1 and then changed his vote to get the lynch in the end. Nothing has changed to convince me that zang is anything other than scum.

I realized that I changed my vote a lot and I am willing to take full responsibility for my actions

[The Quintastic One]

This is self-contradictory. TheButtonmen either was not scumhunting or accused The Quintastic One of being a liar changing his story. Both cannot be true.

Actually, both can be true and both are true. Calling someone a liar over and over and over again in every single post they make is not scum hunting. So yes, both are true.

I still like SIR CYANIDE as scum and The Quintastic One is back to his... playing badly (I can't think of a way to describe him that doesn't sound insulting to me), but damn, you're scummy.

Vote: Zang

At this point I don't care that I look scummy. I did everything I could within my power to prove my innocence on day 1 and was called every name under the sun for trying. I've been called a liar, stupid, moronic, idiotic, scummy, anti-town, newbish, ridiculous, pathetic & down syndrome for being openly town. TBM deserved to be lynched and I couldn't be happier that he's gone. I don't care that he turned up town, he deserved my vote and I don't regret his lynch.


Now onto today's events.

To Jack: Elaborate as to why Strangercoug is climbing up your list of scum. Did something happen that's caught your eye? Just saying your suspicions without reason isn't going to convince anybody.

To Zang: Since TBM turned up town, who do you believe to be suspicious going into Day 2? I ask you specifically because everyone else seems convinced your lynch worthy, so your perspective is key right now.

[cruelty]

for being openly town.

Why can't you understand that you cannot be openly town?

[Fat_Tony]

for being openly town.

Why can't you understand that you cannot be openly town?

QFT. TQO, for your own sake, please drop this line of reasoning. Stating over and over again that you are town is pointless. Even assuming your Town Neighbour claim is true, what do you hope to gain? Put it this way - if for some reason everyone had to say just whether they are town or mafia aligned, the following scenario occurs:

Townie: "I am town."
Mafia: "I am town."
SK type anti-town: "I am town."

Saying it over and over doesn't make it any more true or believable. It serves no purpose, so please, for the sanity of everyone, drop it.

For the record, I don't see why you would claim something like Town Neighbour unless it was true, so I buy it.

Consequently, I have one question - WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ADVOCATING A MISLYNCH ON YOURSELF?! If we mislynch now, that'll be 4 townies gone in by end of N2. WHY would you think this could possibly be beneficial to town? Or at least, more beneficial to town than ACTUALLY FUCKING SCUMHUNTING?!

Your play makes me want to tear my eyes out. If you are town, you're making yourself look really stupid and your suggestions are consistently anti-town, so PLEASE stop trying to get lynched, don't mention it again, and start fucking hunting.

@everyone else. PBPA of whole 18page thread is taking forever, so instead, and in light of N1, I'll do an indepth ISO of Paltry and also TBM. If there is anything you would like me to pay particular attn to let me know.

[Fat_Tony]

@Zang: what does "taking full responsibility for your actions" mean in context? That you admit you moved your vote around a lot, but you don't want to give an explanation for it so we can all suck it?

I think you're scum. While I wait for work to be over so that I can do my ISO,

vote: Zang

.

[SIR CYANIDE]

You know, I really want to vote Zang (and add some more insults to TQO's list), but Zang isn't really displaying scummy behavior. I don't want to throw WIFOM around, but scum would be much more careful. All these 'basic tells' are only good for catching newbs if you ask me, and possibly Mafia (I cannot count the times I've identified scum because an experienced player started pointing out obvious anti-town play from newbs).

[Zhero]

I've been called a liar, stupid, moronic, idiotic, scummy, anti-town, newbish, ridiculous, pathetic & down syndrome for being openly town. TBM deserved to be lynched and I couldn't be happier that he's gone. I don't care that he turned up town, he deserved my vote and I don't regret his lynch.

Are these statements related? A quick iso search shows that TBM never used the words moronic, idiotic, pathetic, or down syndrome, and never refered to you as ridiculous. Liar, scummy, anti-town, and newbish are all reasonably game-related.

It was cruelty who called you 'obvidiot' and your logic ridiculous, and Sir Cyanide who called you a 'downie'. Your post I'm replying to here is the only mention of 'moronic' or 'pathetic', at least as far as Ctrl-F is concerned. That said, why is it TBM that 'deserved' to die?

Your appeal to emotion is noted.

Zang: who is scum?
Cruelty: who is scum?

[cruelty]

million dollar question.

I'd love to say TQO but he's too scummy to be for real.

I think scum is somewhere in vivi, SC, jack and agar. Need to re-read day 1 though.

[AGar]

PaltryExcuse,

Watcher

, killed night 1.

Crap. There goes my strongest pro-town read...

This made me lol.

@Cruelty: Why do you avoid Zang?

@TQO: Are you boneheaded? Offering yourself up for an intentional mislynch gives us NO information. I almost feel like you're just going to push this to get us believing "too scummy" fallacy.

@Zang: Why are you trying to justify your actions with bad, scummy reasoning?

Vote: Cruelty

For a different reason than I asked him about.

[cruelty]

oops.

I put your name there instead of zang. Should read:

I think scum is somewhere in vivi, SC, jack and zang

[Fat_Tony]

Vote: Cruelty

For a different reason than I asked him about.

Being?

ISO on Paltry coming up.

[Zang]

@Zang: Why are you trying to justify your actions with bad, scummy reasoning?

bad and scummy? How do I have bad and scummy reasoning?

Zang: who is scum?

To Zang: Since TBM turned up town, who do you believe to be suspicious going into Day 2? I ask you specifically because everyone else seems convinced your lynch worthy, so your perspective is key right now.

my top suspects are sir cyanide and Jack. And the tbm misltnch does make tqo look a lot scumier but I think that he might be town, scum would never risk seeming so stupid.

@Zang: what does "taking full responsibility for your actions" mean in context? That you admit you moved your vote around a lot, but you don't want to give an explanation for it so we can all suck it?

it means that I am not dening it and I moved around my vote a lot because they all seemed like they could be scum.

[Zang]

@Zang: Why are you trying to justify your actions with bad, scummy reasoning?

bad and scummy? How do I have bad and scummy reasoning?

Zang: who is scum?

To Zang: Since TBM turned up town, who do you believe to be suspicious going into Day 2? I ask you specifically because everyone else seems convinced your lynch worthy, so your perspective is key right now.

my top suspects are sir cyanide and Jack. And the tbm misltnch does make tqo look a lot scumier but I think that he might be town, scum would never risk seeming so stupid.

@Zang: what does "taking full responsibility for your actions" mean in context? That you admit you moved your vote around a lot, but you don't want to give an explanation for it so we can all suck it?

it means that I am not dening it and I moved around my vote a lot because they all seemed like they could be scum.

[Fat_Tony]

PaltryExcuse in ISO:

23: RVS - OMGUS on StrangerCoug. Standard.

32: Doesn't like early role talk - unsure whether Jack or TQO is worse for starting and speculating respectively.

47: Implores Jack to drop cop talk - has started discussion (+) but also rolefishing talk (-). Points out TQO's "but srsly guys I'm town!!!!" talk means nothing.

80: Asks to distinguish between Sir C and StrangerCoug. Tells Sir C and TQO to STFU with the ad hom nonsense. Again, lambasts TQO for role talk and questions her case against Sir C. Agrees with Jack that Sir C has yet to participate in scumhunting. Asks Zang why 2 FoS's and a HoS and no vote. Asks TBM to contribute some analysis.

Votes Jack

as he started the rolefishing and is hiding behind Sir C(?).

140: Asks Sir C why it's Jack's job to explain Sir C's argument re:benefits of investigating town. Explains his vote to Jack, as his q bred role talk.

157: Asks Zang why he finds Jack scummy and perceives him more of a threat to town than Sir C. Asks Coug why he bothers mentioning his own scummy meta.

168: Calls TQO on what seems like a sudden turn on Jack.

193: Asks AGar why he feels TBM has stifled conversation. Asks why TBM isn't voting TQO even though he is encouraging Jack to ISO her and vote her.

Unvotes

.

232: Again smacks down TQO for "waving the I'm a townie flag" as it makes no sense. Questions why suspecting her should be scummy in itself. Tells AGar he likes the case on TBM. Tells ConfidAnon that Zang FoS's TQO on 22nd and believes her on 24th. Asks Zang why he believes TQO.

233: EBWOP, and

votes Zang.

235: Says Zang doesn't believe his own accusations of who is scum, and changes his mind on his FoS's without offering explanation to why. Finds it scary.

240: Again says he finds Zang's quick change of heart unnerving. Picks up on POSSIBLE slip: "Why could only 2 of your 3 suspects be mafia?" (Re: Zang post xxx) Asks a couple of other valid questions, wonders why Zang is speculating on a killing role.

247: Again asks Zang why he believes TQO.

249: rephrases question after Zang doesn't answer the actual q (probably accidentally). However, Zang seems to contradict himself between 170 and 248, as Paltry points out.

257: asks pertinent questions of TQO and TBM. Asks for more from lurkers.

282: suggests cruelty make a massive case against someone as he is "almost new" into the game.

284: Correcting Coug on cruelty's comments re: TQO.

288: dislikes cruelty's question about single most important event.

291: pushes for info from cruelty.

303: basically a repost of 291.

319: Explains to TQO why role talk so early is -EV for town. Asks cruelty to answer his own question. Calls Zang on stupid question.

347: After cruelty and I jump on the wagon, asks for patience and to get answers before we string TBM up.

352: Suggests we wait for my PBPA, asks cruelty who he suspects.

383, 385: Asks TBM who he has as scum (after TQO), then implores him to give information to help himself out, says he's only waiting on my PBPA before he hammers.

390: Explains his case against TBM.

392: Responds to TBM's defence.

397: EBWOP

410: Slams Zang's iso "analysis" and hammer of TBM, says Zang should have been lynched instead.

414: Asks Zang why he didn't wait given two players were catching up.

418: Points out he had Zang as his #1 scum read but found TBM scummy also.
------

After this, nothing more of use is said, and Paltry is killed.

Analysis of this: He seems to catch Zang not paying attention at best, lying/scumslipping at worst on a couple of occasions, and builds a really decent argument against Zang. Continually tries to get TQO to calm down with the rolefishing and supertownie claiming, to not much avail. He seems to be uncomfortable with the way cruelty comes into the game - doesn't really have time to build a case due to the TBM wagon rolling on. Early on he shows suspicion of Jack which seems to die down as the game wears on, as well as a little suspicion of Sir C.

Since we know now that he is confirmed town, and since the standard of play so far in this one has been fairly poor from all sides, I have no problem believing that the NK was down to scum-Zang having figured out that he was probably going to get owned by Paltry in D2, and acting out of desperation. I am definitely looking for some decent work by Zang to keep him from being our daykill today.

I do, however, think the key to town getting a good lynch today is that TQO absolutely, imperatively HAS to stop waving her town flag, volunteering for investigations/lynching, and all this other batshit insane crazy lunatic dumdum talk. It is so unbelievably antitown that it's making it easy for potential mafia to hide in plain sight by pointing out that everything she is doing is so, SO bad for town that it hurts. Please, PLEASE, TQO, stick to scumhunting, and stop focusing on trying to deflect attention from you. At the moment I buy your town neighbour claim. If you keep going on about you and how innocent you are, then I'm going to grow less convinced. By now, you have said all you can say on this, and those who don't believe you, aren't going to be swayed by re-hashing the same defence. The best way to defend yourself as town is to go after the scum proactively, not pursue vendettas (you OMGUS'd Sir C D1 and you chased down TBM who was town but who, coincidence of coincidences, had his vote on you) and continually say you're obvtown.

In fact, the more I think about it, the weirder everything about your town neighbour claim is. It's so obscure a role that it's barely worth claiming, which probably lends extra legitimacy to the claim. But you're OMGUSing everything in sight and you're behaving in the most antitown way ever. I'm leaning more towards awful play than scummy play, but IGMEOY.

My vote stays on Zang, at the very least until he can provide a sensible reason not to flat out kill his ass.