Mini 896 - Jekyll Mafia - Game Over

[Green Crayons]

It's like the perfect SK role claim.



Anyways, peanut. Let's assume you're town. Who are the bad guys?

[peanutman]

Green Crayons, my role doesn't give me information on the bad guys. I've already said I found Nacho suspicious for dropping his hammer vote after being conspicuously absent with his posting for a few days before. As for the rest, I am about to re-read the thread today to widen my perspective and see what else I can pick up.

[Pulindar]

With both the Jailor and at least a role blocker gone you should be able to investigate tomorrow. If you survive the night.

What roleblocker is gone, other than kiku-Jailkeeper?

I misread that, I thought that it said that Wolf was a roleblocker, not a rolecop. I completely misread that. Sorry.

I have suspicions but no proof what so ever. From another game I'm in I'm learning that proof is much more worthy of attention than simple suspicions.

What proof are you expecting today?

Slaxx, do you have any case on xvart/Pulindar

other

than his lurking?

honestly I'm not sure what to expect. More I plan to go over things with a fine tooth comb and see what I can dig up. Obviously I need to reread if I messed up on something as simple as a dead person's role. If you guys really want my opinion, where I'm leaning etc. Then here it is.

Scum

I think that there are probably two mafia left. With Macavity pointing out that Wolf was a rolecop, I guess that means one of the ones left is a roleblocker. I'd bet that if there is a third (not quite sure but I think so) then he will have a role too. I'll get into why later.

The two I find most suspicious right now are Nacho and GK. As I said before I don't have exact reasons, they're just feelings.

As for the PGO

Even though it was a thought I had (and it is not my role) I'm not sure I believe you peanut. There's not really anything you can do to prove it, but I'm not sure if you aren't just latching onto a suggestion I made. Still if peanut is a non-Compulsive SK, we have time to lynch tomorrow. Don't we?

SK

Honestly I have more of a problem with the non-compulsive SK than I do with a PGO. I've read a couple of games with SKs and they were always compulsive. I just don't like it as a theory.

Why Mafia have Roles

I guess I'm supporting Peanut. I didn't expect to when I started this post, but as I'm making it that's what's happening. With Mafia having roles, and we know there are at least two mafia with at least two roles, the PGO has more power as he has a much higher chance of catching the mafia in whaterver they're doing.

Dangit just reread again. I guess I can't be sure about there being a roleblocker. Still, with a rolecop a roleblocker partner would be an interesting combo. Maybe only one scum is left... If so I'm leaning towards Nacho.

[Nachomamma8]

It's like the perfect SK role claim.

Forgive me if I don't believe you, especially after speculation that there was a PGO in this game started up. First of all, what's your name? What's your flavor? Why didn't you tell us in the beginning of the day if you only wanted to "save PRs"? What made you claim now? As of post 476, was I your only suspect? If so, you do realize that would mean raider was your only suspect before, and you suspected me for dropping a hammer on your first and only suspect, correct?

[Pulindar]

It's like the perfect SK role claim.

Forgive me if I don't believe you, especially after speculation that there was a PGO in this game started up. First of all, what's your name? What's your flavor? Why didn't you tell us in the beginning of the day if you only wanted to "save PRs"? What made you claim now? As of post 476, was I your only suspect? If so, you do realize that would mean raider was your only suspect before, and you suspected me for dropping a hammer on your first and only suspect, correct?

hmm you always have to bring logic into things, don't you Nacho.

I still don't like the idea of a SK that doesn't have to kill every night though.

But Nacho does have an Excellent point about When you claimed. I really wish I hadn't brought it up. Still, from games I've read before I'd rather the SK live an extra night than Scum live an extra night......

[Slaxx]

Nacho, he goes over all that in post 474 ( which ever post he claims in).

Honestly, I dont know what to make of the claim. There doesnt seem to be enough NKs to justify any extra destructive (as in deadly, i.e capable of kills) roll, but a PGO, based only off current nks, seems more plausible.

I dont understand why, however, he only claimed AFTER conversation on PGO has started up.

Heres my thing: Unity played like Sk because of super lurking. Peanut played more like PGO and seemed more protown. Ive reached an impass. I still have mac's question to answer, so basically I'm going to have to do more reading on xvart and peanutman. For right now, however, I'm leaning more towards PGO for peanut than SK.

[Nachomamma8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jekyll_(TV_series)

Vote: Peanutman

Mrs. Utterson = Another version of Hyde, which is definitely not pro-Klein & Utterson. Sounds to me like peanut just changed the last part of his flavor, and left the rest the same...

[peanutman]

Just a thought that might help convince some of you as well. What are the odds that, if I were SK, I would pick scum, a scum rolecop nonetheless. Wouldn't it see more likely that wolframnhart tried to investigate my role and died doing so? As for why I didn't claim at the start of the day, it's because I didn't know how to play the role, and wanted to hear a bit more about it to see if my intuition of claiming for the town's benefit was worthy of it. After I found out about the wiki topic on the PGO, I was convinced that it was the best play for me and the town as a whole. My breadcrumb on the previous day was to back up my claim if/when I wanted to do so. The fact that I caught a scum last night is definitely a bonus, but I don't want to risk losing a town PR in the following nights.

As for Nacho, did you even read my post completely because most of your questions are answered there? You are really not helping me get rid of my suspicions on you. It seems like you might be a flustered scum who doesn't like having an unkillable* confirmed townie around.
*Rather, if killed, I bring down a scum with me.
In case it wasn't obvious enough for you before, I'll quote it for you.

Flavor, I am Mrs Utterson, the owner or Klein and Utterson, and because I can't control my temper, I kill all who target me during the night.

I choose now to share this because if I don't , a doctor, a cop or any other townie who directs their ability towards me dies. And since my role has already seemed to take down one of the scum, I feel it's safer for me to be out in the open and prevent killing a PR during the night because they focused on me.

[peanutman]

@Nacho, really? I'm Mrs. UTTERSON, owner of Klein & UTTERSON. I own the institute that has been breached. As per the original post, the survival of this institute, of MY institute, is at stake. Even though I am also Jackman's mother, and therefore a hybrid, my alignment is still very much with the institute. You really look like you're scrambling to derail this and save yourself right now.

[Nachomamma8]

Just a thought that might help convince some of you as well. What are the odds that, if I were SK, I would pick scum, a scum rolecop nonetheless. Wouldn't it see more likely that wolframnhart tried to investigate my role and died doing so?

Here's a load of WIFOM. If you were SK, you have no idea who's scum and who's town. I think you just got lucky with him being a rolecop.

As for Nacho, did you even read my post completely because most of your questions are answered there?

Obviously not. My eyes jumped to "Paranoid Gun Owner", and I thought "oh, hell no".

It seems like you might be a flustered scum who doesn't like having an unkillable* confirmed townie around.

Confirmed? Not even close. And if I had a killing role, I wouldn't mind taking you down with me.

As for why I didn't claim at the start of the day, it's because I didn't know how to play the role, and wanted to hear a bit more about it to see if my intuition of claiming for the town's benefit was worthy of it.

As soon as I get a role I don't know how to play, I google/Wiki it. What made you wait until the night?

The fact that I caught a scum last night is definitely a bonus, but I don't want to risk losing a town PR in the following nights.

So you didn't care about losing a town PR this night?

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho, really? I'm Mrs. UTTERSON, owner of Klein & UTTERSON. I own the institute that has been breached. As per the original post, the survival of this institute, of MY institute, is at stake. Even though I am also Jackman's mother, and therefore a hybrid, my alignment is still very much with the institute. You really look like you're scrambling to derail this and save yourself right now.

Well, lesse... At the end of the sixth episode, apparently, you turned into a Hyde yourself. And you yourself stated you kill people because you "get angry"; thus, turn into a Hyde. Obviously, you can't control yourself when you kill, so how farfetched is it that you simply turn into a Hyde and go SK?

[Green Crayons]

It seems like you might be a flustered scum who doesn't like having an unkillable* confirmed townie around.
*Rather, if killed, I bring down a scum with me.

This doesn't make any sense. Allegedly wolf attempted to kill you last night and he was the one that ended up dead. In terms of how you have presented your role, you simply cannot be night killed as anybody who targets you during a night for any reason whatsoever is preemptively killed.

If you were simply going to "bring down a scum with <you>," then both you and wolf would be dead right now.

[peanutman]

@Green Crayons, I believed Wolf tried to investigate me last night and get info on my role, not NK me.

[Slaxx]

Peanut, why did you not claim at the very start of the day? Claiming at the very start of the day only makes more sense. Less confusion, and more believable. Waiting until talk comes up about the role and then confessing just doesn't make sense. No, in essence, you've weakened your claim and its merit.

[Slaxx]

@Mac: The one thing that concerns me about xvart was his last few posts were all replies to questions that he had been asked. Its almost like he was trying to stay with the town flow and answer questions without ever really actively scumhunting.Take note that those two posts (ISO 17-18) occured on jan 10, he picked up a prod jan 9th, and before that he hadn't responded in 5 days. That post was just a vote with, ironically enough, justifying his vote by saying Mrsuave was lurking. Of course, in xvart/ pulindar's defense, we see where lynching lurkers got us.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, I think that it's pretty obvious that peanut is the SK. The question is, should we kill him now?

We have 7 people alive. If we lynch him and he is a PGO (unlikely), then we'll have 5 people alive after the NK, with a maximum of 2 mafia members left, so... possible LyLo. If we lynch him and he is an SK, 5 people alive, 2 mafia members max, and still pssible LyLo.

If we don't lynch him, and lynch a townie, and he kills a townie out of spite, we will have 4 people alive; 2 mafia members, a townie, and an SK. The mafia will know he isn't a PGO, and so they will collectively no lynch, kill him during the night, and endgame the other townie in the morning.
If we don't lynch him, instead lynching a mafia member, and he still kills a townie out of spite, we'll have 4 people alive again, A mafia member, two townies, and him. A townie offers to kill himself, and put the scum into a prisoner's dilemna.
If we don't lynch him and he doesn't kill and we lynch a townie, we'll have 5 people alive: 2 townies, 2 mafia members, and him. All three will try to find mafia members (since lynching town would be a loss for every person non mafia), if they succeed, we'll have 3 alive: maybe one of each, maybe just townies, maybe him and two townies... either way, town still has a decent chance of winning.
If we don't lynch him and he doesn't kill and we lynch maf, we'll have 5 people alive: 3 townies, mafia, and him. We try to lynch the mafia that round, if we succeed, we have 2 townies and him, if we fail, we have one of each, which is the prisoner's dilemna again.

tl;dr (that was mostly for me): the only way he'll win is if he doesn't kill. So, let's kill mafia instead of the SK. If there's somethin wrong with that, point it out, please.

[Slaxx]

Sure, we might nab maf, but a mislynch leads to either the 1st or 3rd scenario. However, As far as i can comprehend this, it makes the most sense.

I've alread pointed out my problem with xvart. Do you have any suspicions/ a scumlist?

And GK, what do you think about all of this? You've been absent for a while.

[Pulindar]

Still, from games I've read before I'd rather the SK live an extra night than Scum live an extra night......

As you see Nacho, I agree. Still, thanks for breaking it down for everyone. So for today I am against lynching peanut, and am instead looking for scum.

[peanutman]

@Nacho, you didn't mention the possibility that I am a townie. Honestly, if you think this through, why would I, as SK, make any kind of claim when I was in a relatively safe position without any real threat on me. I could have coasted along as SK, not mention anything until I was pressured. As for why I didn't claim at the beginning of the day, I honestly didn't expect to claim until I was pressured, breadcrumbing the twilight before to back my claim later, but with the talk surrounding a PGO or SK, and reading up more on it, I decided it was best for me and the town as a whole to claim. And as for why I didn't wiki the paranoid gun owner before, it's because my role pm didn't say paranoid gun owner, it said PGO with an explanation next to it, therefore I didn't know what PGO stood for. That being said, I won't waste more time trying to prove I am in fact what I claim until tomorrow (given pulindar's and nacho's assessments) unless you I'm asked. I'd rather we focus on doing some scumhunting right now. Will re-read the thread and post my thoughts by tomorrow.

[MacavityLock]

Peanut, given that you didn't know what PGO stood for, but you say you were specifically provided that acronym in your role PM, why

didn't

you wiki it or ask for clarification from the mod?

Nacho, based on your outcome from your numbers game, why didn't you unvote Peanut?

Also, I think there's a major flaw with your numbers game. In the scenario that Peanut is SK and doesn't kill tonight, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't kill the subsequent night. I tried to do the numbers game myself, as I am wont to do, and at the point of examining night 4 occurrences, it spiraled out to way too complicated to come to any major conclusion.

[Gerhard Krause]

GK, if you got a guilty on Maccavitylock, what would you do the following day?

That is irrelevant. That did not happen, therefore it would simply be a theory discussion. If it's really that important to you ask me again.

Mind checking timestamps?

It seems I got them at night.

Any reason you didn't investigate kiku again, given that you had voted for her again, and was I assume one of your top suspects?

I did not know if I had been roleblocked or if Kiku was somehow investigation immune. Regardless it seemed a more fruitful endeavor to try someone else.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, based on your outcome from your numbers game, why didn't you unvote Peanut?

I wanted to make sure I did everything right first.

Also, I think there's a major flaw with your numbers game. In the scenario that Peanut is SK and doesn't kill tonight, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't kill the subsequent night. I tried to do the numbers game myself, as I am wont to do, and at the point of examining night 4 occurrences, it spiraled out to way too complicated to come to any major conclusion.

For the most part, I take note of that. In scenarios #1 and #2, it simply doesn't matter if he kills the second night or not.

In scenario #3, if he kills the second night and kills a townie, mafia wins. If he kills a mafia, and mafia kills a townie, he wins. If they both kill each other, we win.

In scenario #4, if he does kill, then it'll be 3 townies and him. If he doesn't, it'll be 2 townies and him. Either way, the game is pretty much wrapped up at that point.

you didn't mention the possibility that I am a townie.

If you ARE a townie, then we can't lose any of the prisoner's dilemna situations, and PGOs can't be endgamed by one mafia, so you would get us a draw in the worst case scenario. And in all of my scenarios, we end up lynching you last. So if you are a townie, you will still win; in fact, you'll make it far easier for us.

Honestly, if you think this through, why would I, as SK, make any kind of claim when I was in a relatively safe position without any real threat on me. I could have coasted along as SK, not mention anything until I was pressured.

Erm, WIFOM again.

Do you have any suspicions/ a scumlist?

Hmm... right now, I feel the lynch should be you or Macavitylock or GK. Pulindar is a town read for the moment because of his being the first person to bring up the fact that we should lynch SK before scum. Peanutman is SK, and I'm definitely a fan of Green Crayon's posting so far.

You are a suspect because I feel you go after lurkers too much, who I feel are simply easy targets. Well, lurkers and major bandwagons. I'd like you to see you make cases on people who are posting a little more, or add up reasons on Xvart that doesn't include lurking.

Macavitylock is a suspect by process of elimination. Nothing he's done has been particularly pro-town, so just a null read. I'll probably do a reread of him in ISO later.

GK just jumped in my suspect list because of his latest post. He responded almost immediately after someone mentioned he wasn't around, and his last post is just... lazy.

GK, I asked you the question for 2 reasons: to see if your sanity was guaranteed, and to see if you had thought of the possibilities of being insane, naive, etc...

Unvote, Vote: Gerhard Krause

I like this vote.

[Slaxx]

True, but I dont see anything else that indicates pulindar's protown. He promised us reads, which we still haven't. His two suspicions are based on 'gut feelings.
His first post explained his work situation, his second post pointed out something obvious, his third post defended himself and gave a promise of more content, his fourth post still promises content and he makes scum accusations based off on gut feeling/ posts his thoughts on SK, on his 5th he agrees with you and mentions knocking SK first, and on his sixth simply agrees with you and everyone else (save for macavity).

When you look at it under ISO, he's looked busy without ever really doing much besides speculate on SK.

[Pulindar]

Slaxx I feel that you're misrepresenting me a bit here.

I have not been promising more content, I have been promising more content when I get a better feel for what I want to say. I prefer to post longer drawn out posts with a summary of all of my points.

So, more content will come, but not until I know what I want to say. I'm not sure yet. I gave you my gut feeling with the condition that that's all it was. I don't have a case. I told you that I didn't have a case and yet you kept asking for my opinion so I gave it. Yes I think Nacho and GK are the best suspects, do I have a case? No. Am I positive enough to actually lynch either of them immediately? No.

My agreement was basically that I don't want to lynch Peanut today, why? Because while I am unsure of his actual role, I think lynching an SK over trying to lynch mafia is a mistake.

As for my posts lacking content, I haven't had much to add. I want to make sure I'm paying attention, so I post. Posting helps keep me intuned. I guess it's also a form of Active lurking. Yes I'm still here, no I don't have anything to add except that peanut is someone I don't want lynched today.

Would I lynch GK if the deadline got closer? probably. Same thing with nacho, why? because that's what my gut's telling me. But I want to re read through, to look at the game from a few perspectives. I like to mull things over.

Check out 205-207 This is my only completed game, but those posts should give you a general idea of what I want my substantial posts to be like. I would show other games as well, but this is my only finished one.

[Budja]

Votecount

1 - Nachomamma8: (peanutman)
1 - Pulindar: (Slaxx)
1 - Gerhard Krause: (Nachomamma8)

Not Voting: Green Crayons, Pulindar, Gerhard Krause, MacavityLock

With

7

alive it will take

4

to lynch.

Deadline: 10pm, 20th February AEST

Nacho will be V/LA 5-14 Feb. Deadline significantly extended.
Replacement will be sought if game stalls.