Mini 909: Nice'n'Fun Mafia (Game Over)

[The Tracker]

Sure, if you want to bitch out and let your replacement get lynched. If you're Town, then try your best and if you get lynched, oh well. Whether or not you replace for a crybaby reason shows what kind of man you are.

Also not liking your AtE.

[Flareonage]

Should I just ask for a replacement then? I try my best with the time I have, but it's not appreciated. Apparently I'm not making the game enjoyable for you and you certainly aren't making the game enjoyable for me.
Replacement? Your choice.

Just ignore it. It's only a game you shouldn't have to dedicate so much time to make long posts as long as you're playing and having fun

[AGar]

So your motivation was self-preservation. Cool. That's not scummy at all.

The claim doesn't help us as town, other than avoiding a mislynch. But the upside is if you're scum, an investigation doesn't give us any footing. I'd say that's pretty significant if you're scum and managed to stay off the radar, and then an investigation pops up.

The timing was unprovoked, the context wasn't useful at all, and the motivation wasn't protown.

No, it was cop preservation. The reason why I claimed is so a cop doesn't potentially waste an investigation on me, causing him to out himself. How on earth are you reading it as self-preservation?

Some players support policy lynches of millers, and they always almost come under fire/draw excessive attention to themself because of their claim. They are also hot choices for vig kills. If this is self preservation, then I'm doing it wrong.

You make it seem as if the worse case scenario (by not claiming) is not a big deal at all. Outing a cop falsely for a mislynch is a disasterous situation for the town. Claiming miller is not explicitely pro-town, because it narrows the pool of power roles for scum to hit. But it is a far better situation than the worse case scenario in not claiming and being investigated. Both are negative results, but claiming is imo the lesser of two evils. Therefore it was the protown decision.

You're failing to realize that I'm taking BOTH sides into account here. I'm not believing blindly like you would like me to. I'm looking at this objectively - if you're town then there shouldn't be any problem for this. Again, it saves an investigation. If you're town, that is good, because it increases the percentages of a cop investigating scum. But if you're scum, that is good too. It lessens the percentage of a cop hitting scum, and manages to give you a free pass if he doesn't investigate you. I'm getting at THAT side of it, which you seem to be missing.

And then you did a complete 180. Just a note.

Lynching randomly was better than no-lynching on Day 1.

Fair enough.

Mindgamer - that post you just put up is classic smokescreening - it seems like it would be useful, but in all reality, it is useless information and just keeps you further distanced from the game.

I'm seeing the points about Mindgamer reading back through. His posts look incredibly busy on the surface, but when I sat back and actually had a chance to read them, I found they had less content than an unhappy marraige (homograph metaphor...huh.)

Should I just ask for a replacement then? I try my best with the time I have, but it's not appreciated. Apparently I'm not making the game enjoyable for you and you certainly aren't making the game enjoyable for me.
Replacement? Your choice.

The hell is this crap?

I was saying you look scummy, not that you're a waste of a player role. Generally, players that produce no content are scummy players, not people that we hate.

This is strong AtE and also suggesting the replacement seems like a scum cop-out. You realize that we lynched Quag and he didn't request a replacement because he "wasn't enjoying the game." So instead you go the alternate route. "I don't enjoy this. Can I have a replacement?" Smells like a bad ploy to me.

Also, Hoopla - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you say they are pressure votes.

[Flareonage]

[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]

[Hoopla]

Also, Hoopla - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you say they are pressure votes.

I don't remember making a pressure vote.

[cruelty]

[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]

This is interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

Why?

[AGar]

Also, Hoopla - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you say they are pressure votes.

I don't remember making a pressure vote.

I am voting angelmouse to get what I need out of her.

---

[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]

I do. As scum more than town.

[Flareonage]

That changes things. I said that cuz I've seen a lot of people crack under the pressure and none of them were scum.

[cruelty]

Why?

Reads like genuine concern over the attacks being fired at tracker.

[Flareonage]

I was talking about mindgamer. He asked if you guys wanted him to replace out and people immediately starting saying "I don't like that AtE" and were very rude when they answered

[cruelty]

Yeah sorry, I meant mindgamer.

[Hoopla]

Also, Hoopla - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you say they are pressure votes.

I don't remember making a pressure vote.

I am voting angelmouse to get what I need out of her.

My vote will stay on her if she doesn't comply - pressure votes are usually done to generate reactions. I am doing it to get what I need to hear from her.

[Cruciare]

angelmouse has not picked up her prod. Will start looking for replacements tomorrow~ish if she hasn't shown up by then.

Vote Count

Mindgamer (3)

hitogoroshi, AGar, Nachomamma8

The Tracker (1)

angelmouse

hitogoroshi (1)

Flareonage

cruelty (1)

RedCoyote

angelmouse (1)

Hoopla

Not Voting (3)

cruelty, The Tracker, Mindgamer

With ten alive, it takes six to stone to death.

[AGar]

Also, Hoopla - Pressure votes fail to be pressure votes when you say they are pressure votes.

I don't remember making a pressure vote.

I am voting angelmouse to get what I need out of her.

My vote will stay on her if she doesn't comply - pressure votes are usually done to generate reactions. I am doing it to get what I need to hear from her.

In a twisted way that I hope you understand, my point remains. You are saying what the intent of your vote is, and it is not lynching. Thus, the effect is generally lost.

[Hoopla]

I still disagree, but I like the way you've been arguing.

I have solid town reads on AGar, hitogoroshi and The Tracker. Who should we lynch, guys? Does it have to be Mindgamer? What are your thoughts on RedCoyote and angelmouse?

[RedCoyote]

I'm serious about my cruelty vote. It isn't a joke or anything like that, if that's what y'all may have been thinking.

I'd also be comfortable with a Mindgamer, Flare, Hoopla, or possibly a Nacho lynch. I've seen no substantial reasons to lynch either angelmouse or hito.

---

Should I just ask for a replacement then? I try my best with the time I have, but it's not appreciated. Apparently I'm not making the game enjoyable for you and you certainly aren't making the game enjoyable for me.
Replacement? Your choice.

Don't take it personal, Mindgamer. If you feel overburdened, then by all means replace out, but no one here is trying to attack you as a person. There's a definite line between thinking what you did is or isn't scummy and thinking you are making the game non-enjoyable, and so far as I can tell no one thinks you are making the game non-enjoyable.

[hitogoroshi]

[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]

Wow, I actually agree with Flare here. AtE is one of those things, like misrepresentation, that townies very often see in others and scum very rarely choose to do deliberately. +town points for you, sir.

That being said, Mindgamer is still not providing content and I'm still happy with my vote where it is.

I still disagree, but I like the way you've been arguing.

I have solid town reads on AGar, hitogoroshi and The Tracker. Who should we lynch, guys? Does it have to be Mindgamer? What are your thoughts on RedCoyote and angelmouse?

Mindgamer is still my favorite lynch candidate. Angelmouse/angelmouse's replacement is gonna have a lot on their plate when they get back but I can't think of anything particularly scummy from that slot. RC is my strongest town read right now.

If I can't get you guys all on a mindgamer wagon, my other choices for lynch today would probably be cruelty (the fact my strongest town read is voting for him helps). I'm less certain about nacho-scum or flare-scum than I was before - I'd hop on their wagons with a deadline looming but I have no interest on pushing them. Hoopla is frustrating me to no end but I'm not comfortable translating that into a scumtell or a lynch at this point. If deadline hits us by surprise, the only people I'd rather no lynch than lynch are RC and AGar.

[AGar]

What are your thoughts on RedCoyote and angelmouse?

RedCoyote is a neutral read for me atm. In the event that it was deadline and we needed a hammer on him, I'd gladly provide it, but I won't be trying to start/push a wagon on him right now.

I'm withholding my read on AM until a replacement is found. I'd like to see whoever that replacement is give their thoughts on AM as well.

I'd support a Nacho wagon as well.

[cruelty]

Ok Red, let's take your vote seriously.

I seriously got the impression that cruelty voted Quagmire almost purely out of spite

, especially after their little slapfest at the end of the day. He won't agree with that characterization of course, but the town can draw their own conclusions. cruelty played a big part in artifically extending that wagon.

He either did so out of emotion and principle, being against Quagmire's D1 play, or he did so to because he did not want another wagon to garner any steam

, as lynching townQuagmire or (supposedly) townTheTracker would've been good enough.

That's inconsistent. The first bolded part, you're sure I'm basing my vote on emotion, then you're suddenly ascribing devious logic to it, saying that I artificially extended the wagon out of

either

spite or strategy.

That's not a case. That's a silly little justification for a vote with a backdoor you can quietly slip out if things don't work out.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd happily support a Mindgamer or cruelty lynch.

I would lynch Hoopla, AGar, Angelmouse, or Tracker at deadline without too much protesting.

[RedCoyote]

That's inconsistent. The first bolded part, you're sure I'm basing my vote on emotion, then you're suddenly ascribing devious logic to it, saying that I artificially extended the wagon out of either spite or strategy.

That's not inconsistent. I'm still saying that you voted Quagmire out of spite. If you are town, you did just that. You voted him emotionally with a personal vendetta against his playstyle. If you are mafia, like all mafia, you actually voted him because you knew he wasn't on your mafia team. You still voted him spitefully either way, but in the second instance the anger with Quagmire would've just been a ruse, an excuse.

[AGar]

I'd happily support a Mindgamer or cruelty lynch.

I would lynch Hoopla, AGar, Angelmouse, or Tracker at deadline without too much protesting.

You really need to start explaining things. You've said earlier that Hoopla was a town read and The Tracker wasn't that scummy to you anymore. Why the complete 180?

[Nachomamma8]

Hoopla was a town read.

Yesterday, I said that. Earlier today, I said that she had the highest chance of being the SK, if there is one. As an SK, claiming miller is a pretty good way to go, and lately the positions she's been taking (lurker votes, but not jumping on any wagons) have smelled strongly of self-preservation.

The Tracker wasn't that scummy to you anymore.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that I'd no lynch over lynching him.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla was a town read.

Yesterday, I said that. Earlier today, I said that she had the highest chance of being the SK, if there is one. As an SK, claiming miller is a pretty good way to go, and lately the positions she's been taking (lurker votes, but not jumping on any wagons) have smelled strongly of self-preservation.

Wouldn't wagoning someone else available, ie; Mindgamer, be a better way to do the self-preservation thing? Why are lurker votes suspicious?

I'm laughing at the SK thing though - why would you even attempt to use this as a genuine point? There was no NK. It would be such a bad play to go after a supposed SK out of paranoia, rather than trying to lynch mafia.