Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[PaltryExcuse]

/confirm

I'm here, I'm here.

Vote: StrangerCoug

OMGUS votes are necessary at this point in time.

[PaltryExcuse]

Ya, I'm not liking this role talk so early in the day at all. I'm torn whether to vote for the cause (Jack) or the one I feel is potentially doing the most damage by their hypothetical talk (Quintastic One).

[PaltryExcuse]

Firstly, @Jack: Drop the cop talk. It has started conversation, (which is good), but it has started rolefishing type conversation, (which is bad). Drop it, drop it, drop it.

So me purposefully volunteering for the town cop (Jack or not) means I'm scum...despite the fact that if they town cop were to take me up on that offer than I would be proven innocent, and no scum in their right mind would actively want to be investigated and outed on day 2 in the first place.

Which makes me believe that those who are pointing suspicions towards me and going so far as to even vote for me are scum trying to get a lynch so that that's one less cooperative townie to deal with and they can try to strike fear in anyone else who would dare to try and prove their innocence and screw up their late game hijinx.

Therefore

Vote: Strangercoug

FoS: Paltryexcuse

Call it rolefishing all you want. I'm fully willing for the town cop to investigate me. A proven innocent townie is a thousand times more useful than a bunch of townies that you can't trust to be telling the truth.

It's not that you're co-operating. It's what you are saying. Don't misinterpret what has been said by others. This talk is what I don't like, and in my post I also mention that my vote could go towards Jack at this point for him starting this line of thinking. And if I think it`s rolefishing, that`s not exactly a good thing. Saying you`re co-operating for town and anyone casting a finger at your direction must be scummy themselves is illogical. Town suspects town. Town suspects scum. Scum `suspects` town. Scum `suspects` scum. Just because someone doesn`t like what you have posted doesn`t make them scummy.

[PaltryExcuse]

Okee... firstly, some clarification:
I've seen at least once someone using the abbreviation SC for Sir Cyanide. Be warned, we also have StrangerCoug, who name could also be abbreviated to SC. Cyan and Coug are still short and recognizable if neither objects.

On the 'talk' between TQO and Sir Cyanide:
You're both insulting each other. Just drop the personal attacks.

@TQO: Have I made myself clear on why I didn't like the role talk? (Participation itself is not odd, it is the content that was a bit suspicious. I.e.: Talk of doctors, cops, etc.)
Secondly, you mention that Cyan's tactic is to piss off people and is the easy route? If he is deliberately trying to anger others, I don't see how this is anything but null as this doesn't help whatever team he's on.

@Cyan: Jack's point was that you hadn't done any searching for scum, just arguing with TQO. So far, I'd agree. The only thought other than arguing with TQO was that you perceive TQO as town. Who do you believe to be scum, and why?

@Zang: You throw out 2 FoS's, and an HoS. Is there a reason why you're hesitant to vote considering you have three suspects at this point?

@Buttonmen: Anything more to add than just the confusion as to how Jack came to his set-up conclusion? (Which I will admit is odd)

Either way,

Unvote; Vote: Jack

. I feel you started the role-fishing talk and are now hiding behind Sir Cyanide. (Mainly the role-fishing talk though)

[PaltryExcuse]

@Cyan: Why is it his (Jack's) responsibility to make sure that your argument is clear? Putting words into your mouth could be just as bad as the alternative. Honestly, giving TQO and you a chance to explain yourselves first isn't something I see as wrong.

What posts did I make that had the purpose of finding pro town roles to kill? That is what role fishing is. How do you feel that I am hiding behind Sir cyanide?

As for the set up "conclusion"--

Oh well, probably not. But I wouldn't be overly afraid of speculation-->the point I'm making.

@Jack: You didn't specifically role-fish, per se, however, your initial question led to subsequent fishing due to the speculation your question brings. Basically, your question breeded roletalk. And if you didn't rolefish, how did you come across your information of the set-up? I am a bit afraid of the role speculation as already you seem to have a feel of multiple roles in this game and I thought talk on it was cut off.
The hiding behind Cyan's raging is just speculation and gut feel.

[PaltryExcuse]

I always thought that Jack was scum (look at my previous posts), I just did not want to risk the chance that he was cop. But now I'm willing to take that chance, for all we know there might not even be a cop.

@Zang: Is it just the perceived cop claim that has you thinking Jack is scummy? Or is there something else to change your mind from Sir Cyanide being less of a detriment than Jack (the original reason you upgraded your FoS to a vote)?

Ok...follow up question to those who answered. If you are innocent, why would you want the cop to waste an investigation on you? Trying to prove you aren't scared makes sense for the mafia...

What you mention here is true, but I have a scummy meta and the cop, if any, might not be able to get a good read on me.

@Coug: Found this on an ISO read. Why mention this at all? This just doesn't seem to serve a purpose.

[PaltryExcuse]

That my first initial response, you should be smart enough to look back and see my reasonings as to why I was convinced later on.

Unless of course you're encouraging me to believe you're no longer to be considered the cop, then you'd pretty much be the most scummy and worthy of my vote. To be honest, the fact that I still think you're a cop is pretty much your soul saving grace at this point.

WHAT? Why? You've never mentioned you find Jack scummy at any point.

[PaltryExcuse]

@AGar: Why do you feel TheButtonMen has stifled conversation?

@TheButtonMen: You haven't voted for TQO despite your insistence to Jack that he should ISO TQO and vote him? Why didn't you vote for him if you find him suspicious?

Unvote

[PaltryExcuse]

@TQO - Stop waving the 'I'm so townie' flag. Your rolefishing and suspicions based on "Those who attack me must be scum" are not pro-town. Constantly saying "I must be town" is not convincing in the slightest.

For example:

Yes, I understand now that the cop investigating scum would be alot more effective than clearing me as town. But still, if I am THIS confident that I am innocent, I find it very suspect that other people are still as confident as they are that I am scummy.

Every player is going to say that they're confident that they are town. Why does suspecting you show scummy behaviour?

@AGar - I like the case on Button. Especially his response of wanting a case on him when I've already requested one and you've responded.

@ConfidAnon - Zang sees FOS's TQO on January 22nd. Believes TQO on January 24th. Also...

Tqo-I did believe your points and I don't know that Jack is scum, the only people that know who is scum is scum. And can you elaborate more on how I am being manipulated?

This has been bothering me for a while. Why do you believe TQO?

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP: Zang

sees

FOS's...

Also,

Vote: Zang

[PaltryExcuse]

TQO - You are getting more annoying by the post.

Going off of gut and how he quickly shifted to TQO, and then quickly shifted back off of TQO.

Vote: Zang

IMO this is a pretty silly reason, are you implying a scum link (he votes TQO to make it seem as if they are unconnected but then quickly unvotes because he doesn't feel comfortable/doesn't want to bus)?

It seems as though Zang doesn't believe his own accusations of who is or isn't scum. He easily believes those he FOS's. You have to take into consideration what the people whom you suspect say because you might be wrong... however, to believe them with no reason for the change in thought? Scary stuff.

[PaltryExcuse]

My Suscpicouns change as do Many peoples, how is that scummy?

And

unvote

I never said your opinions can't change on people. I no longer find Jack to be the scummiest and removed my vote from him. However, 2 days after FOS'ing someone you

believe

them. What makes it worse is that it is past tense, you

did believe

him meaning it was even less than 2 days of posts which allowed you to change your mind so completely. Believing someone who has repeatedly said in his votes that he is town is basically believing they are town, no? This just seems to imply you were very easily swayed because there weren't foundations of suspicion to begin with.

Another thing:

I'm not voting because I have 3 suspects, I want to narrow it down farther before I vote, only 2 of my 3 suspects can be scum if that. I want to have more solid information before I vote.

Why could only 2 of your 3 suspects be scum at that point? (TQO, Sir Cyanide, Jack)

More so, I asked these questions of you:

@Zang: Is it just the perceived cop claim that has you thinking Jack is scummy? Or is there something else to change your mind from Sir Cyanide being less of a detriment than Jack (the original reason you upgraded your FoS to a vote)?

And you answered:

Paltryexcuse-I was going to unvote cyanide anyway, I originally voted for him because he was no use to the town whether he is or isn't mafia but he has disproven me of that so I was going to unvote him.

What is the answer to the first question? As in, is it just the perceived cop claim that makes Jack scummy for you?

You also missed the question of 'why you believe TQO?'

Finally I have no idea what this is in reference to or why you said it:

Well, it is possible that we have another killing role

It just seems the more I focus on your posts, the more I don't like.

[PaltryExcuse]

And why do you believe TQO, Zang?

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually, it was this one I was referring to:

Paltryexcuse-I was going to unvote cyanide anyway, I originally voted for him because he was no use to the town whether he is or isn't mafia but he has disproven me of that so I was going to unvote him.

Tqo-I did believe your points and I don't know that Jack is scum, the only people that know who is scum is scum. And can you elaborate more on how I am being manipulated?

You believed TQO's points after FOSing him. What was there to believe and why?

[PaltryExcuse]

...I will take that as a joke

Based on how we've seen TQO pursue lynches so far? Doubt it.

@TQO: Why would you say that ButtonMan is stalling?

@ButtonMan: I'm with Zang on this one. What you're trying to say isn't exactly clear.

We need to hear more from Zhero, and Vivi76.

[PaltryExcuse]

Goddamn, TQO you need a good slap.


I've read the thread and rather than making a massive case I'll just throw out a few thoughts.

- AGar needs to post more. He's made 9 posts, and only one could really be considered meaningful. Little concerning, he's capable as mafia.

- TQO you're truely playing horribly. If you're town, there was zero need to roleclaim, it just lines up another target for scum. Not only that, but you're not "obvtown", you're obvnewb, obvidiot, but not town. Not even close. That said, the crazy drunken path you're stumbling down is, irritatingly, leading to town, following a circuitous route of sheer incompetence, so I can't vote for you in good conscience right now. Pick your game up.

- Jack.. don't get the early claim. Don't really buy it either, but I'm not going to read into it right now. I tend to think that it's a dangerous claim for scum to make (in my experience cops are generally exposed through investigation claims, counter claims or through their deaths long before lylo) so I'm willing to let you sit on it for now.

- Zang you're horribly inconsistent. Need to re-read and engage with you a little because at the moment I'm looking in on proceedings.


I hate day 1. I never get a good read day 1 so I'm a little hesitant to vote right now, especially in light of the fact that I haven't actually engaged anyone yet due to V/LA.

What I would like from you all though, is directions to issues you feel I should comment on. What information do you want from me, given that I'm in sort of a unique position (no personal bias due to no head to heads yet)?

I say make a massive case against someone. You've kinda walked in like a replacement with a fresh look we haven't heard anything from... so make a massive case. But I'm with Jack in that fresh after reading the thread, you've gotta have some inkling of who to vote for, no?

[PaltryExcuse]

What I would like from you all though, is directions to issues you feel I should comment on. What information do you want from me, given that I'm in sort of a unique position (no personal bias due to no head to heads yet)?

Can you be a little more specific as to how you're getting a newbtown read on The Quintastic One?

He calls him obv-newb and obv-idiot. Not newbtown. If anything, it sounds as though he suspects him. But without a vote or FoS it's kinda hard to tell.

[PaltryExcuse]

@everyone

: What do you think is the single most important event/debate/altercation to have taken place so far in the game?

I think it's crazy to zoom in on one single event. Over time, the little things people say can be more telling at times than the larger debates.

[PaltryExcuse]

I think it's crazy to zoom in on one single event. Over time, the little things people say can be more telling at times than the larger debates.

So you're saying there isn't any one thing that's stuck out to you in the entire game? Not the Jack/Cyanide war, not TQO's random claim, nothing?

I'm not asking you to build a case around anything specific, but there absolutely has to be something that doesn't sit right with you, and I want to know what. Don't come at me spouting nonsense about the little things, that's completely and utterly irrelevant given what I want to know from you.

Why are you hesitant to answer me? What downside is there to answering the question?

I answered the question. I am the only one who has so far. Whether or not you disagree with me is a different issue.
Obviously you have something in mind. So, feel free to share.

[PaltryExcuse]

You didn't answer the question at all, you (quite neatly, to be fair) sidestepped it. I don't really like it when people do that. I think it's scummy. You're not going to convince me (or anyone else in the game, I sincerely hope) that there hasn't been a single moment yet which turned your head. Reading through your iso it seems like there definitely is, which in turn makes me wonder exactly why you're hesitant to talk about it. Regardless, your response has been noted.

I'm not overly concerned about the others thus far, although I will note that TBM did answer it, which invalidates your statement that you're alone in addressing the question.

I don't think I sidestepped it. I don't think there's a singular important event, and I described why I thought it was dangerous to focus on one and one alone.
Like I said, you obviously have one singular moment in mind, feel free to share. Secondly, you might as well show which moment you think is my 'most important moment'.

[PaltryExcuse]

@TQO: About not liking the role-talk. I think one of the main reasons I didn't like it is that I thought it could lead to potential power roles slipping up and revealing themselves too early. Or at least give mafia a good idea of where to start. So, your continuation of the talk seemed unnecessary and just like you were prodding for that information at the time. Is this what you meant by scummy behaviour?

@cruelty: Still waiting for your answer to your own question and also what you thought was my 'singular moment' in this game.
Secondly:

If he has truly read through the entire thread like I just have, he would have MORE than enough material to vote for somebody.

This is parroting something someone else (Paltry? can't be bothered looking) said. It stuck out because it's related to me, but looking back through your post it's quite obvious that you're not really thinking here, you're just recycling arguments other people have made. It's all good and well to get behind someone else's case (if it's a good case), but the vast majority of your original content has been fairly blatant and illogical OMGUS.

Yes, it was me who accused you.
Question though, where did TQO get his suspicions of ConfidAnon from?

TQO-your overview is informative but I do not see what the point of it was. Could you explain this? Was it really just to show your thoughts of what's been going on while rereading? If so why bother posting it (because it did just sound like a narrative of what's been happening throught the game)?

Did you read the bolded parts?

[PaltryExcuse]

@cruelty: Still waiting for your answer to your own question and also what you thought was my 'singular moment' in this game.
Secondly:

If he has truly read through the entire thread like I just have, he would have MORE than enough material to vote for somebody.

This is parroting something someone else (Paltry? can't be bothered looking) said. It stuck out because it's related to me, but looking back through your post it's quite obvious that you're not really thinking here, you're just recycling arguments other people have made. It's all good and well to get behind someone else's case (if it's a good case), but the vast majority of your original content has been fairly blatant and illogical OMGUS.

Yes, it was me who accused you.
Question though, where did TQO get his suspicions of ConfidAnon from?

WEEEEEEEEEEEE! Answers please before a lynching!

[PaltryExcuse]

Also, for those keeping score at home, I replaced in for CA. I must admit, your quick push of TBM to L-1 unnerved me, cruelty. Stagnation? Ok, I realise there are some circular arguments bouncing around, but hardly stagnation. I had just pushed TBM to L-2 myself. Not calling you out as scum, just passing along my observation.

Nonetheless, I'm fully behind a TBM lynch, just wasn't expecting such a quick response from Alf from Home and Away. TBM is also the ONLY player I will be happy to lynch without doing a more detailed readthrough and PBPA this weekend first. I have seen nothing but scummy behaviour from him. For info's sake, I don't have Coug down as his scumbuddy, and would probably view Vivi57 as the most likely scumpartner due to megalurktasticity.

Get your hammers out, people.

We're in no rush to lynch (Deadline is Feb 11th, 9 days from now). I say we wait for a more indepth response from you, no? And an answer from Vivi to the recent accusations.

Well, L1 isn't a lynch.

I gotta come clean though, I'm fairly apathetic about the game right now and I would like for something to happen that grabs my interest. I'm not 100% behind the TBM lynch (I suspect mainly because I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to him, something I'll rectify tomorrow), but I'm willing to look a little scummy and jump on the wagon, unless there's a viable alternative (which I don't really expect there to be).

So who do you suspect and why?

[PaltryExcuse]

@TheButtonMen: Who, other than TQO, would you peg as scum?

[PaltryExcuse]

Zhang is my 2nd scummiest read, after that I don't have any real scummy reads, AGar and Jack posts at times strike me as odd, but nothing really pops out.

I'm looking for information out of you Buttonmen. The lack of new ideas (the bickering with TQO is just a re-hash of old arguments) is not inciting confidence at all. Give something, and help the town you claim to be on. At this point, Tony's PBPA is all I'm waiting for before I hammer.

[PaltryExcuse]

What do you feel makes me scummy?

Your first few posts just read the same thing over and over. Stop talking about the roles. I agree with the sentiment, but it's not until you're attacked that I feel you perk up with a better case on TQO.
However, the final thing and most convincing for me is this. In my first game, I was scum and won. (Look at my wiki for references). Most of my game was spent giving my opinion on cases that had already started, and then after doing so it was question time. I never built a solid case until I needed to. I think your game is better than my initial one (as you built on a case Day 1) but I'm reading a similarity between the two plays as you ask questions to others but there's never really any follow-up afterwards... except when dealing with TQO. They seem like filler and your focus is undeniably on TQO and faked on others to cover up.
The only other thing that bothers me is I got AGar to elaborate on his case on you and then you completely ignore it and tell him to read the thread. It just seemed scummy as you previously never attacked a person (accusing them of not reading the thread when they obviously had by quoting you) as a defense and it just didn't make sense in my mind.
And most recently, you attack TQO some more... but what I'm looking for was reasonable suspicion on anyone else in the game with some backing. I think at this point, town should have more than 2 suspects with a semblence of reasoning. Your accusation that you don't like something in AGar's and Jack's posting is vague and it's hard to tell if you believe they have a more likely possibility than the rest of us they could be. The fact that you're not going down fighting by getting all your thoughts out tells me that you don't want to build connections to possible scum-partners.
You're not my strongest scum read (that's still Zang), but you're definitely up there.

Tl;dr:
A) You didn't start building a case until you were attacked.
B) Your play reminds me of my own scum play.
C) You ignored a post and gave a weak defense.
D) You seem hesitant to name anyone outside of TQO & Zang as possible scum.

And do you belive TQO's story that when he was searching the wiki he never used the search bar?

Yeah. Do I find TQO scummy nonetheless? Yes. As he and many others have said, he's new he's new he's new. He recovered nicely with his wall post, but really having the fact he's new crammed down my throat so often and so early, and the uncalled-for roleclaim, still irk me.

[PaltryExcuse]

A) You didn't start building a case until you were attacked.
B) Your play reminds me of my own scum play.
C) You ignored a post and gave a weak defense.
D) You seem hesitant to name anyone outside of TQO & Zang as possible scum.

A) False
B) Okay? Not sure how to respond to that.
C) You say I ignored a post, which means you have a specfic one in mind?
D) You think its scummy that I only find two people scummy D1? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

A) That's a matter of opinion. Obviously you'd disagree. But until that point, it's seem
B) Two choices: read my game and compare, or take my word for it and call yourself scummy. Either way, do you feel like you follow up on the questions you ask people?
C) You ask for a case, and AGar had already given one. It's not that strong, but you seemed to have missed it.

@AGar: Why do you feel TheButtonMen has stifled conversation?

Posts like these:

Can we stop trying to figure out who the cop is?

The Quintastic One

Let's not discuss sanities and try to get people to speculate on roles quite yet eh?

There's a few others that read as if he's trying to push people along and stifle people from talking, but that's just my personal opinion.

And the fact that it was ignored at the time as well as your uber-tunneling makes it scummy and the case a good one.
D) I am surprised you only find 2 people scummy. With 12 people in this game, NO ONE else has done anything worth a second look? No one? The hesitance to name someone or some action seems as though you don't want to pinpoint anyone. Why is Zang scummy? What about AGar's and Jack's posts bother you? Now is the time to go back and look.

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP:
A) That's a matter of opinion. Obviously you'd disagree. But until that point, it's seem

s to me as if you hadn't.

[PaltryExcuse]

First of all I would like to welcome fat_tony, nothing much else happened. But now I will do a case on tbm. This is tbm in ISO-

-argues with Jack about cop investigating town
-votes tqo with no reasoning
-questions jacks setup
-accuses tqo of sounding scummy everytime he posts
-calls tqo "super new"
-Says that tqo has flawed logic
-tells Jack to vote tqo
-accuses tqo of exajerrating
-criticizes tqo for claiming a power role
-says that everytime tqo is questioned he says how obvtown he Is
-Says that tqo had bad logic (again)
-questions tqo
-says that I am scum with logic that I do not understand
-Calls tqo a liar
-accuses tqo of changing his story
-explains his logic for why he said I was scummy
-admits that he was going for the easy lynch (tqo)
-once again he sais that tqo has changed his story and lied multiple times
-criticizes Jack
-once again calls tqo a liar
-misspells my name
-questions paltry
-defends himself against paltry
-sais that cruelty hates day one

he is obssesed with lynching tqo and is desserving of my vote so

vote:thebuttonmen

and I think that is hammer so goodbye

This is not analysis. This is a summary. This is why you should have been lynched instead.

[PaltryExcuse]

Zang: Why didn't you wait? TWO other players other than yourself were catching up (AGar and Fat_Tony). What purpose was there in ending the day now?

[PaltryExcuse]

Paltry Pre-Hammer:

You're not my strongest scum read (that's still Zang), but you're definitely up there.

It wasn't distancing. I still look back and find you scummy. You're just not top of the list and I would've much rather have lynched the person who I am currently voting for.
However, after everyone had weighed in I would have lynched you due to deadline / my scummy read on you. I don't disapprove of the hammer, I disapprove of the post summary instead of anaylsis and the timing.

[PaltryExcuse]

No, I didn't lie. I am town. But you're lynched, and scum or not, I couldn't be happier. Have a nice day you stupid fucker.

You're seriously crossing the line, especially for someone who protested being attacked like this earlier in the game.

[PaltryExcuse]

PaltryExcuse,

Watcher

, killed night 1.

Crap. There goes my strongest pro-town read...

[PaltryExcuse]

I didn't pay much attention... but TQO's play really hurt us.

I had a townie read on Jack during Night 1, and really should have gone with my gut an watched him instead (not that it would've mattered). I watched AGar because I thought he was second most likely to be NK'd.

In scum QT,

After that, paltry just asked a ton of questions to everyone in the game. It feels like he's the cop fishing for information on who he should investigate. He also doesn't really commit to much or say much, just asks a bunch of questions.

That's actually just my playstyle. Town/Scum/PR.

About the set-up. In my very unexperienced opinion... mafia was a bit overpowered in comparison to town. I think the two mafia power-roles were equal to the two main town power roles. Switching the jailkeeper and doctor might have helped (and confused the crap out of the mafia). But that just would be a bit bastard moddish (no cop for godfather, no vig for mafia doc).

I really stopped reading after Day 2 slowed to a halt for a second time. Overall, good job scum.

Personal note: Vivi was much more active and helpful in the QT than he was in-game. If I see you be as uninformative in-game again, I'm calling scum on you.

[PaltryExcuse]

Are you two still arguing? Take it to PMs please.