Mini 907: Tech Tree Mafia (End Game)

[Juls]

Vote: Chaco

I like the catch by Percy but really dislike Chaco's defense.

[Cobalt]

still comfy with my vote

[UncertainKitten]

So, I'm not actually here today. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

Vote: Chaco

.

The "slip"

wasn't

that scummy. It was Chaco's reaction- the defense, then the next, and then the next. (Post 96, 98, 99.) It was as if Chaco was really worried about it being taken the wrong way, when it really wasn't much. He seems overly cautious.

[Sajin]

@Percy- Your circle idea (how funny when I remember you trying to design something unbreakable) is not very good.

Lets say scum actually did take a "scummy power" (which is flaw number 1). What would stop scum from saying they received said scummy power from their target (flaw 2)?

Additionally, what if someone took one of those powers because of the tree it leads into and not the power itself? (which some of those lead to incredibly pro town powers, such as rig elections, which auto confirms its holder town)

In short, the idea has many problems.

[Juls]

Um...bump?

[Percy]

@Sajin - Yeah, I know, it's not good at all. Still, I'd imagine that all Imitates resolve simultaneously, so anyone who said they got it from Imitate via another Imitate previously picking it up would be lying.
Also, regarding the powers I isolated as scummy (Blink, Votegift, Boost, Roleblock), there is only one non-scummy tier 2 ability that requires one of either of these (Bus Driver) - all others can be reached with much more (imo) pro-town powers. For example, Bodyguard is a more pro-town way of reaching Jailkeep than Roleblock, and BPVest for NK Immunity rather than Blink. If you plan on reaching Unblockable or Grant Bonus Ability, I'd like to lynch you now plzkthx.

The point is, though, that we shouldn't try to break the game or devise strategies right now - I've tried, and I can't see a strategy that the scum can't circumvent or would have a better chance of finding scum than the good old traditional way. Once we pass midgame and we have a fullclaim, that will be the time for strategy. A corollary is that we should stop talking about setup and start scumhunting.

Now as for Chaco, I'm happy to leave my vote there for now. My vote provoked a

further

possible scumslip, but I want to hear more from basically everybody, so I'll ask some questions to get us rolling.

@Sajin:

You still haven't voted, and you seem to have talked about nothing but setup since the game started. Any reads at all?

@malthusis:

Are you still sticking by your vote?

@Vaya

: Similar, suspects please.

@Netopalis:

Do you actually want MafiaSSK lynched for policy reasons, or was the vote "pseudo-random"?

@Cobalt

: You said to justify your Chaco vote:

It's not _just_ setup speculation. He opposes a clearly protown plan. Unless you want tech victory or something, BP was one of the best choices for last night, because it was basically a free invent ability. Anyone who picked BP gets another ability free tonight, because they can't be NK'd.

Your last sentence is false. If scum suspect that enough townies took BP last night, they will have to sacrifice one of their actions in using Boost tonight, but BP or not the target will die (barring the right Roleblock or Blink). As Chaco pointed out, this will no longer waste scum actions once one of them gets Creativity.
Do you still think that his setup speculation deserved a vote, or do you think he's scum for different reasons now?
I also flatly reject your statement that a townie's choices last night were BP or climb to Tech Victory.

[Cobalt]

I didn't say the choices were TV or BP. I think BP was the best choice.
BP forces usage of Boost, which in turn forces a build to Creativity. If the scum with Creativity dies, they need to build for it again. And the creativity tree doesn't look as good as a lot of the others.
Still happy with a chaco vote.

[UncertainKitten]

I'm playing this game, aren't I?

So...um...why is Chaco scum? The early bandwagon bothers me for his odds. But if there's a good reason I could be convinced. And yes, this is blatantly born out of me not paying attention.

[Tarhalindur]

"The art of making others bend to our will without realizing that they're doing so is something that few have. In history, only the greatest of kings, the most influential of philosophers, prominent religious figures, and computer game designers have held this distinction. "

- Majesty tech description (long).

Apologies for the delay in vote count and prodding; site problems have been a MAJOR issue for me for ~48 hours, and I've been moderately V/LA myself.

Prod situation: MafiaSSK, malthusis, netopalis (while he was V/LA for 24 hours, it's been well over 72 hours since then), Vaya, and zoraster are ALL in prod range and are being prodded. Chaco's declared V/LA (in sig) earns him a reminder instead. That's more than enough to FAIL you on the First Mod Deadline Review, so final deadline for D1 is five days from now. Vaya and MafiaSSK will be replaced if I have to prod them again, due to a history of needing prods as players. - Tar

The Second Vote Count (aka the "Xeno Communications" Vote Count)

1) Percy, representative of the

Arcean Empire

(0) -
2) malthusis, representative of the

Drath Legion

(0) -
3) zoraster, representative of the

Torian Confederation

(1) - malthusis
4) UncertainKitten, representative of the

Altarian Resistance

(0) -
5) Cobalt, representative of the

Drengin Empire

(2) - Vaya, MafiaSSK
6) Sajin, representative of the

Korath Clan

(0) -
7) Chaco, representative of the

Krynn Consulate

(4) - zoraster, Cobalt, Percy, Juls, Pomegranate
8) Juls, representative of the

Terran Alliance

(0) -
9) netopalis, representative of the

Dominion of Korx

(1) - Chaco
10) Vaya, representative of the

Iconian Refuge

(0) -
11) MafiaSSK, representative of the

Yor Collective

(2) - netopalis, UncertainKitten
12) Pomegranate, representative of the

Thalan Empire

(0) -

Not Voting

(1) - Sajin

Current and Final Deadline:

January 19, 2010 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

[Percy]

7) Chaco, representative of the

Krynn Consulate

(4) - zoraster, Cobalt, Percy, Juls, Pomegranate

Is this accurate, Mod?

No. I'll fix it ASAP (goddamn site problems messing with my edit powers).

Update: Fixed now. - Tar

But if there's a good reason I could be convinced. And yes, this is blatantly born out of me not paying attention.

I refer you to

my post

on the issue and the four posts that follow it. I'm not convinced that it's a great reason, but it's the best lead I've got so far.

[MafiaSSK]

I am still liking the chances of Cobalt being scum.

[Vaya]

/prodded

I'll probably get to this game later today.

[malthusis]

I'm here. Got too absorbed in Vortex, and forgot about this, I'll try to get a post in by the end of the day.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, the first point I should have noted since IIRC Chaco tends to be "golly gee whiz", though I'll recheck TTGL Mafia for that.

That slip is rather unconvincing as well, but I'll do a quick ISO of chaco and decide if it has any merit. That said, if I don't find anything I'll be looking at wherever the wagon became serious'd for scum.

[UncertainKitten]

I'm even less convinced of the slip comment given the flow of the conversation. Feels like "I'm assuming everyone is trying to pretend to be town, so for the time being I'll address them under the assumption they are town". That's how most players play I believe.

this is probably the scummiest post I've seen from Chaco and even then it's not necessarily terrible. Just more reasons NOT to talk about the friggen' tech tree, cause you expose crap like that.

The slight backtrack on the "slip" bothers me but I don't think Chaco is the play right now.

Let me look at others.

[Tarhalindur]

7) Chaco, representative of the

Krynn Consulate

(4) - zoraster, Cobalt, Percy, Juls, Pomegranate

Is this accurate, Mod?

But if there's a good reason I could be convinced. And yes, this is blatantly born out of me not paying attention.

I refer you to

my post

on the issue and the four posts that follow it. I'm not convinced that it's a great reason, but it's the best lead I've got so far.

No, but apparently edit function isn't working (I can access the edit function, but when I try to hit post the board hangs) so it'll have to stay unfixed for now. - Tar

[UncertainKitten]

Juls vote feels alright, but I'd like her to be more engaged in the game and post more opinions if possible.

Zora bugs me for all the set up speculation and then attacking Chaco for poking holes in his plans. But generally I think we just have a theory disagreement. I don't see the tech tree as mattering as much as zora would claim. Overall his posting seems townie within his expressed viewpoint.

Percy is obvious, probably the most well explained vote on Chaco.

I also want more opinions from Pom. She does actually justify her Chaco vote, which is good.

Cobalt basically looks the scumiiest out of all the Chaco voters. Barely touches why Chaco is supposedly scummy, whereas a lot of other people had been doing the same speculation, INCLUDING COBALT.

For the time being, I'll

Unvote, Vote Cobalt

[UncertainKitten]

In other news

THIS is the most fucking amazing mafia tool I have EVER used. I encourage all of you to give it a go. Cause it's FUCKWIN.

[Cobalt]

hi forbs how are you

[UncertainKitten]

hi forbs how are you

Pretty good, and yourself? I mean, the mafia part of your role PM can't be feeling too good ^-^.

[Cobalt]

I'm town though, so you should probably vote for someone else
like chaco

[UncertainKitten]

I'm town though, so you should probably vote for someone else
like chaco

Why would I vote someone who's less scummy then you?

[Cobalt]

cuz I'm town?

[UncertainKitten]

cuz I'm town?

Oh, alright, I'll go back to vo-

WAIT A DAMNED MINUTE!