Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[MacavityLock]

Let me be perfectly clear here. There are other players that I think would be better lynches than you today. My normal procedure is to go after the player I find to have the most (or "highest quality") scumtells. However, given that we're 2 days from deadline, and there is no lynch without a voting majority, I am now required to work backwards from the set of players that would be feasible to lynch. As far as I can tell, that list includes just you and Budja. So, between the two of you, I am looking at your actions as if you were scum, and asking whether or not that would be consistent. In my opinion, you come out as more likely.

Unlike Netop, i didn't make assumptions and presume information about Lymans role. And I don't know why you think that I know more about than anyone else. What's wrong with bringing a player to L-1? What's wrong with revoting him? If i thought him suspicious or scummy, what's wrong with voting him again? You guys keep saying easy wagoning of Budja, how is he an easy wagon? I would like to know.

I think that given his claim, there's a good chance that Lyman is town, and provably so. If you are scum, you would happily have brought a townie to L-1 in your intro post. You also would have latched on to his second wagon in an effort to take out a power role. Budja had gotten all sorts of suspicion on him, and was thus a soft target by the time you had place your 2nd vote on him.

Again, this is not my normal procedure. I can absolutely see how your actions could come from a townie. But given my options, that's just the way it has to go.

So, i'm not your top choice for a lynch, but I am your top choice for a lynch that is feasible today. yea, way to contradict yourself.

We're 2 days from deadline. It is in no way contradictory.

I disagree, you say one thing, and then say the other.

They're two very distinct things. What's the contradiction?

How is it not a vig?

Because the victim stays alive and is allowed to talk.

Where do you get "stays alive" from? Let me once again remind you of his claim.

No, the player I would choose would be

dead for all game purposes

, it says, except still being able to talk in the thread.

How is it not a vig?

[BloodCovenent]

Unlike Netop, i didn't make assumptions and presume information about Lymans role. And I don't know why you think that I know more about than anyone else. What's wrong with bringing a player to L-1? What's wrong with revoting him? If i thought him suspicious or scummy, what's wrong with voting him again? You guys keep saying easy wagoning of Budja, how is he an easy wagon? I would like to know.

I think that given his claim, there's a good chance that Lyman is town, and provably so. If you are scum, you would happily have brought a townie to L-1 in your intro post. You also would have latched on to his second wagon in an effort to take out a power role. Budja had gotten all sorts of suspicion on him, and was thus a soft target by the time you had place your 2nd vote on him.

(This is hypothetical, just for you Net.) If I were scum, why would I care if he targets me with his action? My scum team would still have the most important ability, the night kill. I would still be alive in game, the town would likely not lynch me right away because they would probably hunt for more scum. The scum team would still have three players alive. only the two would have their possible night abilities still.

However, the town has much more to lose with lyman's role. Him hitting a powerful town role would obviously be bad. Knowing that there are more town in this game than scum, i can see how it would be very dangerous for the town.

How is it not a vig?

Because the victim stays alive and is allowed to talk.

Where do you get "stays alive" from? Let me once again remind you of his claim.

No, the player I would choose would be dead for all game purposes

, it says, except still being able to talk in the thread

.

How is it not a vig?

[MacavityLock]

How is it not a vig?

Because the victim stays alive and is allowed to talk.

Where do you get "stays alive" from? Let me once again remind you of his claim.

No, the player I would choose would be dead for all game purposes

, it says, except still being able to talk in the thread

.

How is it not a vig?

Congratulations, you found where "is allowed to talk" comes from. Now, how about "stays alive"?

[BloodCovenent]

Congratulations, you found where "is allowed to talk" comes from. Now, how about "stays alive"?

So you don't see the connection between "is allowed to talk in the thread" and "stay alive?"

[MacavityLock]

Nope, not given how treestumps work.

[imaginality]

BloodCovenant, you're using a different sense of 'alive' to MacavityLock.

Alive = player is permitted to post in the game thread
Alive = player's presence is counted in determining lylo/win conditions

The second meaning is the more important one, and is not identical to the first. Josh's role creates a player who is still 'alive' in the first sense but not in the second.

[MacavityLock]

(This is hypothetical, just for you Net.) If I were scum, why would I care if he targets me with his action? My scum team would still have the most important ability, the night kill. I would still be alive in game, the town would likely not lynch me right away because they would probably hunt for more scum. The scum team would still have three players alive. only the two would have their possible night abilities still.

If a scum got stumped, the town would

not ever need to lynch them

. That scum would already be dead for all game purposes. The fact that the scum could still talk is immaterial.

[BloodCovenent]

I don't see how either of you could have gotten that from Lyman's claim.

whatever.

Unvote:
Vote: Budja

[MacavityLock]

BC, what does "dead for all game purposes" mean to you?

[BloodCovenent]

No voting rights, if the player had night actions he will no longer be able to use them.

[DeathSauce]

Unvote. Vote: BC.

Mac, I really don't get it. What about me is scummy to you? Also, i'm down for a budja lynch, or a Net lynch.

Right now, I find your vote pattern to be scummy.

You should know that you are not my top choice for a lynch. You are my top choice for a lynch of the players that could feasibly be lynched today.

^^^Scummiest post of the game

[DeathSauce]

BC, I do agree with the others that you seriously need to review Lyman's claim. His ability KILLS YOU, but you can still speak in the thread. Jesus, do we have to go through all of this again?

[Budja]

Please don't.

Can kikuchiyo, Netopalis, danakillsu, Chinaman choose a wagon please (preferably BC ).
~34hrs to go.

[MacavityLock]

Unvote. Vote: BC.

Mac, I really don't get it. What about me is scummy to you? Also, i'm down for a budja lynch, or a Net lynch.

Right now, I find your vote pattern to be scummy.

You should know that you are not my top choice for a lynch. You are my top choice for a lynch of the players that could feasibly be lynched today.

^^^Scummiest post of the game

2 DAYS TO DEADLINE! Why is this a problem?

[BloodCovenent]

I guess i'm not the only one that doesn't understand it Mac.

[Chinaman]

I have zero problem picking a wagon at this time.

I will hammer Budja (I believe he is at L-2). I would just vote for him now, but I do not want the possibility of stopping discussion even with this little of time left.

I have also seen a recent interesting fact. I see budja, imag, and mac all voting for snowbunny. I then see all 3 of those same people vote for BC on one page, 2 of which were one right after the other AAAANNNNNDDDD with little to no reason for switching their vote from snowbunny to BC in the posts they switch their votes in! This made me delve deeper. Take a look at this:

Imag's votes:

Nice work Macavity. Already one scum is caught in a web of his own weaving.

JL, Jason (now Dana), LL (now kik), Snow, BC.

Mac's votes: JL, Net, Snow, BC

Budja's votes: LL (now kik), Fuzzy, JL, BC, Fos: Snow and Dana, Snow, BC(iso 14, my bolding)

Josh: Scummy <- initial uncertainty, AtE, call for prods.
Locke: "meta" scum read. (dexter mafia)
Net: "meta" town read. (ongoing unfortunately)
Snow Bunny: Mildly Town

Macavity: Town, agree with pretty much all he says

Snow_Bunny: null - mildly town. I obv. disagree with her reasoning but if Josh town -> Snow likely town IMO.
jasonT1981: no read
ConfidAnon: no read
Chinaman: uncertain, leaning newb-town. Still a bit of a opportunistic feel.
Fuzzyman: town

imaginality: leaning town

BloodCovenent: null

Not once have they voted each other and often they are on the same wagons. The snow and BC wagons are prolly the weakest of them all.

I think DS hit the nail on the head with p560 as well. Budja has had the highest wagon count for awhile when Mac posts his p543. I had been on Budja's wagon as well and have said that he is on my scum list still. If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

If budja flips scum, mac and imag have some fun explaining to do. If all 3 aren't scum, I would bet 2 of them are.

On a side note, I was thinking about JL and his PR. It is very possible that if we have only 2 scum, JL's role could be a modification to a serial killer OR he could have flat out lied about being able to only do it once.

Questions/Comments/Thoughts?

[BloodCovenent]

I guess i'm going back to the "easy" wagon.

Unvote:
Vote: budja

(L-1)

Budja wagon Go Go Go (>'')>

[Chinaman]

actually, you voted budja in p557 already so with your vote included in my previous post, Budja is still at L-2. With deadline coming fast, I hope to hear from everyone before we lynch Budja. Especially curious to hear from the lurkers but want to hear what those I have accused have to say as well.

[BloodCovenent]

Oh, good catch, i thought I was still voting Net.

[imaginality]

I've noticed my thoughts this game have been pretty much in line with MacavityLock's a lot of the time.

Itz cos he's smart like wot i is.

I think he and I think similarly. From my perspective I don't think he's buddying up to me deliberately so it makes me feel more confident in him also being town.

If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

That's flat-out wrong. Mac said:

You are my top choice for a lynch of the players that could feasibly be lynched today.

He didn't say he wanted to vote the players who could most feasibly be lynched, he said he wanted to choose his vote from among the players who could most feasibly be lynched.

On a side note, I was thinking about JL and his PR. It is very possible that if we have only 2 scum, JL's role could be a modification to a serial killer OR he could have flat out lied about being able to only do it once.

I agree about this bit. It's possible it's an SK 'kill' method.

[imaginality]

EBWOP: He didn't say he wanted to vote the

player

who could most feasibly be lynched, he said he wanted to choose his vote from among the players who could most feasibly be lynched. You could rephrase his sentence as "Of the players that could feasibly be lynched today, you are my top choice for a lynch."

[MacavityLock]

If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

Seriously, if you're going to put what I said in quotes, and then put other words around it, it'll be pretty obvious where you're changing my meaning entirely. I very much did not say I wanted to vote for the person whom it was "most feasible to lynch". I said that I needed to choose from the set of players who were feasible to lynch, and from the way I was reading the game, that set was/is Budja and BC.

If for some reason my vote is needed to hammer Budja, and a BC lynch becomes infeasible, I will vote Budja.

Re: Lyman's stumping as potential SK method, yeah, I already brought this up as a possibility.

[Budja]

Great minds think alike .

I'm not going to flip scum and I say now that I have a reasonable town read on both of them.

Mac didn't lie . Read properly.
---
Kik has not said anything yet despite posting elsewhere. If BC is scum, Kik is a good partner choice.

[BloodCovenent]

---
Kik has not said anything yet despite posting elsewhere. If BC is scum, Kik is a good partner choice.

How does that make Kik a likely partner?

[Chinaman]

hey mac, do you think it's odd that imag decided to post in your defense before you? I sure as hell do. In fact, I think it's even more suspicious given your voting patterns and the fact that we are really close to deadline. I will tell you what I think about it after you tell me how you feel about it.

I honestly think this pegs you as pretty obv scum at this point imag. You are either hardcore buddying up to a town mac or you are covering for your scum buddy in case he didn't get around to posting before lynch.

Mac, please also explain to me how you can call Budja the easy lynch choice (ie, i read you saying that as Budja has played scummy as hell and is an easy target because people often like to lynch scummy play......correct me if I'm wrong) yet when it comes down to the 2 choices of feasible lynches, you think BC is the more scummy due to....uh....voting patterns? Let me say that I do realize that is part of my suspicion of you and imag, but I'm lynching the most scummy of the 3 of you first...which is Budja.... On that same note though, how can you justify your vote of BC yet ignore my thoughts surrounding you, budja, and imag's voting patterns?

Something just isn't adding up here. We have you 3 all posting here, and still none of you are even remotely suspicious of one another????? Lets look at the most recent posts in easy to read format (or at least exactly how it comes off).

Imag defends Mac
Mac defends himself with the same defense Imag gave a 1/2 hour earlier.
Budja has a town read on both of them and defends Mac with same argument.

Here is the breakdown of my problems with this exchange. Imag defends Mac. Why would a townie defend someone else? It's day one. Even in a town PR, you have zero way of knowing that anyone else is town (except me and my partner of course but I highly doubt there are 2 groups of masons). Also note that while I attacked Imag as well as Mac and Budja, he doesn't defend any of my thoughts on him and his connection with the other 2 but instead solidifies the connection (read scum-slip).

Next up we have Mac rewording Imag's post. If I'm town mac here, I have to ask myself why in the world is Imag speaking for me? Does he do that? No, he doesn't even mention Imag. Instead, he give a reluctant confirmation he will lynch Budja if the smaller wagon he is on doesn't go through.

Next we have the red-headed stepchild Budja. I have no way of seeing this post as anything a townie would say. If you're town Budja, and VT at that, how the hell do you know who is and isn't town. How bout before you go down, you give us your scum list? None of the rest of us townies give a rats ass who you think is town. We are trying to find scum, not town. Add in the fact you have yet to really try and defend yourself, makes you very hard to read as town. Needless to say, I highly doubt your flip will be anything but scum.

Oh, and to Budja's scumbuddies...I dare you to NK me tonight. pansies! bwahahahahaha