Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[InflatablePie]

Vote: Fugitive

ohai Fuji

[InflatablePie]

The only 2 things I find suspicious right now are the CSL bandwagon and pman's change of mind about voting during RVS.

Pretty much this. pman seems like he might be the type who is swayed easily and could hurt the town. Since after he was called out on contradicting himself, he unvoted as if to say, "There. Better?"

FoS pman

Little suspicious of malp as well, but I'm honestly not too sure what to think about the CSL bandwagon. I'll wait to hear from CSL like the rest of you.

Leaving my vote on Fugi because he's acting peculiar. Not the Fuji I'm used to. I know it's mostly meta, but his reactions seem odd. There's also the OMGUS vote on page 1 (Post 13). It could be a joke that's gone over my head since Fuigi is better than that, but... hm.

[InflatablePie]

Hmm.

Unvote

for now.

bball, what do you think of the game so far? The CSL bandwagon, Richard, marp, or any other of the "main" focuses so far?

I mean, being that we're at 3 pages with some discussable content, I'd assume you'd have had more content in your first post.

[InflatablePie]

I meant Nico, not bball. Damnit, use the same nickname from site to site!

[InflatablePie]

hai r2r

I would especially like to hear from pie. He has only had one post of real content and I would like to hear his and other people's opinions on how the day has progressed.

pman is still suspicious for reasons I listed in 45. Calls Fuji's Richard vote a bandwagon. I agree with Parama in that he FoSed two people who have garnered votes the most besides CSL.

Richard is acting like he usually does, but him noobclaiming by now is old. Especially if he's gonna mod a game on a forum that most of this games' players go to? Yeah, he's no noob.

Fugi is acting a little odd, but after thinking things over, he's becoming less suspicious. I figured the OMGUS part was a joke, anyways.

Wanna hear more from bball because, unless he hasn't read the thread, we're kinda going away from RVS apparently, and I'd like more content out of him.

Also wanna hear from everyone else who hasn't posted. ._.;

[InflatablePie]

Was typing my post up as a list, going back and forth between users, and forgot to tack this on to the end of pman's: Combined with what I said in 45, he seems easily swayed and is so far trying to please everyone or stay out of the spotlight, by his FoSes.

Sorry to keep EBWOP, I'll try my best to reread my posts more. =/

[InflatablePie]

You should EBWOP the fact that you called Nico bball again.

*looks*

Goddamnit. Thanks, Fuigi.

[InflatablePie]

Haven't posted today because I was a double shift (11 AM to 10:30 PM). Sorry. Was typing this up as r2r posted:

Yeah I don't think random lynching will do us good at all.

If anything, I find a random lynch one of the best options we have unless someone basically acts very scummy.

Others have beat me to the punch on most of the other points, but you're contradicting yourself. I don't like that. It seems that once you got called out on how your idea was bad, you changed it to try and get out of the spotlight.

Vote: TheLonging

@Longing: Why did you decide to wait two posts/ten minutes to vote Konowa? Did anything in the two posts before you give you a reason to call Konowa out? I'm not saying asking him what he thought was scummy, but it seems odd to me.

Other than that, I'd like to hear more from Summer and CCARaven. The latter usually has good things to say.

---

I'd also like to hear from Nico/bball.

curious is kind of odd to me as well, since I don't remember him saying anything aside from focusing on CSL... I'd like to hear his thoughts.

[InflatablePie]

I am in no way trying to attack Navy here,

Er... any reason why you're being so careful? I mean, you're hesitant in voting for TheLonging, I wouldn't call what you said next an "attack"... it seems overly careful, if that makes sense - odd.

Richard, who are your top 3 scum candidates ATM, if I may ask?

*refresh*

I'm not going to vote at all. Though I think TheLonging may be mafia, I don't really think we have substantial evidence. He sure is displaying some mafia-signs, most evident in post 81. Also, in my one game experience, "humor" is often a scum-tell. TheLonging's attempt at humor in post 89 seems pretty scummy.

He's seeming scummy. He's seeming pretty scummy. I'm not going to vote. Reluctance to vote, suspicious moreso than Richard because so far he seems consistently careful.

FoS soras (still have one on pman)

sora, what would make you vote, then?

[InflatablePie]

Some legitimate evidence would be nice. To be honest, everyone has posted

something

that is suspicious in my eyes. I need something that's more suspicious than the rest. Also, this sudden bandwagon on TheLonging is strange. Did this all start over that one OMGUS suck vote on Konowa?

To quote Parama in 74 (cutting out useless fluff):

I'm non-committal about my vote because it's day 1. We have basically nothing to go on.

You have to drag people into the spotlight if you want to get anywhere, even if there's not a whole lot about them.

TheLonging's been contradicting himself/going back and forth on his views. He said it'd be best if we RLed, placed an OMGUS vote, says he finds some people slightly scummy but doesn't specify until posts later while he unvotes his OMGUS (this is where the votes come in, IIRC), then says we shouldn't RL after all (after that becomes a major point against him), and generally has been acting off (others have said similar to this, including Konowa and Richard). I hope I didn't miss anything.

So sora, I'm not saying you have to think TheLonging is scum, but are you trying to say that everyone is equally suspicious/non-suspicious even after 5+ pages of discussion? What's your idea of a "standing-out-more-than-the-rest-suspicious" post, then?

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP (no wai!) - The OMGUS vote in itself isn't extremely scummy, but when he unvotes after its brought up, combined with him changing his mind rather than defending his stance, makes him seem scummy in my eyes.

[InflatablePie]

Reluctance to vote could very well be a style of play, I'll give you that. But coupled with the rest of the post, it didn't sit well. It just seems like another "there's nothing to go on" post, when in fact there IS some stuff to go on. Even "concrete" evidence such as a cop scan isn't exactly concrete since there' sanity, alignment roles, lying, etc. But I digress...

r2r, mind explaining your FoS on Konowa? I share your FoS with Summer - his last post seemed weird, along with lack of much content and I want more out of him. pman I'm still suspicious of, from what I said in 45 (being called out and changing his stance). Obv. suspicious of Longing. Being that Konowa is the only difference in our main FoSes (although I'm also keeping an eye on Richard), I'm kinda curious.

[InflatablePie]

@sora: In that case, if people were to start moving their votes from TheLonging to Richard, would you vote for Richard? Actually, being that you've mentioned Richard as scummy, why would you not vote instead of voting for Rich?

@r2r: #180, you say that Konowa is least suspicious. Why then, is he on your FoS list? Shouldn't you FoS the

highest

people on your list, although mention that you found that statement odd?

@TheLonging: Out of all of the people voting for you currently, who do you think are most likely scum? In addition, if you could choose the lynch for today, who would you choose and why?

@Raven: In your recent post, you sort of stay on the fence about everyone but TheLonging. This person is kinda scummy but not sure, etc.. You say you have a gut feel about Konowa being scum, yet say he's town? What?

@Bogre: What are your thoughts/feelings on the recent votes for TheLonging?

FoSes are on Richard and pman.
Keeping an eye on r2r, sora.
Want to hear more from diddin, malp, curious, Nico, Anna.

[InflatablePie]

Question to everyone with their vote on TheLonging:

Given recent events, including the claim, do you still find TheLonging scum? If so, why?

The claim doesn't change my mind much. Post 192 gives me more of a town vibe, however, I both agree and disagree with r2r in Post 197. He does seem more town as of lately. However, if he is scum, than being so close to lynch he would obviously act as townie as possible. Maybe he's treading carefully because he actually is town? But that goes into WIFOM. =/

He addressed my question by rewording my observation earlier concerning Richard to Navy. Acting overly careful and such. His answer to my questions generally had sort of an on-the-fence/neutral attitude.

He's starting to redeem himself, but besides my earlier reasons and the lack of greater alternatives at the moment, I think that he would obviously try his best to seem town after the pressure is on him and I'm leaning towards that side of the WIFOM. I'm keeping my vote for now.

@sora: So if we had something like voting habits to go on, or a PR report, you'd vote? That's the only "something else" I can think of.

Can't wait to hear from dana's replacement once (s)he catches up.

[InflatablePie]

Honestly? Nothing at this point. I don't have the experience to know a definite town-tell, if there are any. Regardless, I still don't think I/we can trust anybody at this stage.

Also, inb4 "stop noobclaiming".

stop noobclaiming

In all seriousness, stop saying you have little experience playing. We get it, and frankly, it isn't a good defense. *refreshes* Damnit Parama.

Of course no one can trust anyone. Stating the obvious.

@Richard: If you absolutely had to pick THREE users here who are most likely to be town, who would they be? Please give reasons as well.

[InflatablePie]

I agree with Navy/Bogre. It causes us to lose a possible lynch of mafia, as well.

FoS diddin

It's a bit scummy in my eyes. He has his vote somewhere: not on TheLonging since if he's a scum it'd seem suspicious (as others have pointed out), but obviously since he just showed up without any other content, has no other suspicions. sora's may be for not wanting to leave a vote history - even though Richard's his highest FoS... he isn't wanting to vote at all. I find diddin more scummy for lack of content after so much discussion.

[InflatablePie]

Ninja's, but as an EBWOP: again, backtracking after people voice suspicion, with claiming lack of experience. Pulling a Richard.

[InflatablePie]

It's the way you went about it. Especially with saying twice that "you want to find scum this round".

Which you can't do if you're voting No Lynch, obviously.

Anyway, I'd like your observations on the game so far. There's 10 pages of stuff to comment on, and I don't recall you saying much at all this game. That's another reason I'm keeping an eye on you now.

[InflatablePie]

DoS, what exactly is waffling? I didn't see the term on the Wiki, so I'm assuming it's slang.

[InflatablePie]

NavyCherub- seems pro-town to me. Consistently contributing throughout the entire game with god thoughts

I am in no way trying to attack Navy here, but "Consistently contributing throughout the entire game with go(o)d thoughts" does not necessarily constitute a pro-town player. Someone is the SH game (keeping them anonymous for their sake) did exactly this, and was always considered pro-town. Then they flipped scum. There's no guaranteeing that a similar process will happen in this game, but it's a little early in the game to be making an assessment like that.

/my two cents

The post in question. Actually, I wouldn't have even THOUGHT you were "attacking" Navy if you hadn't posted it. I still don't think you

were

trying to attack him. To me, it looks like you're trying to distance yourself from Navy for some reason.

Worth noting for later days, especially if Navy is lynched and flips scum.

[InflatablePie]

I like how, for most of the evening, TheLonging has been on the NY forum (because I've been, myself) for at least 5-10 minute periods a few times per hour, yet hasn't posted anything else of note, that doesn't involve him defending himself.

Provides credit to the fact that he's not trying to help the town. Also noteworthy (and more provable) is that as the wagon died down, instead of helping scumhunt, it seems like he's mostly lurked since he's less in the spotlight. If I'm wrong, show me a post that proves otherwise.

inb4Longingrepliestothis

*refresh*

@Pie (post 244)- I totally agree. I never would have thought it either. Why would he want to distance himself from Navy anyway? If that's what he was doing, could it mean they are both mafia?

If Navy flips scum, then yes, I'd say so. Any other situation and it's still 50/50. If Navy flips Town, then it could be seen as Rich distancing himself away from Navy so he can say, "Hey! I didn't have anything to do with that." In my eyes, distancing yourself from another player is never really a smart move.

@Richard: What are your opinions on Navy?
@Navy: How do you feel about Richards' post towards you, or RIchard in general?

[InflatablePie]

Richard, with more "he's probably this, but could be this". Meh.

Why are we all talking about whether Navy's gonna flip scum? He's done nothing to warrant a lynch, and "lynch him so we can find about others" is not a good idea. So why all of this blind speculation. I think it's just Richard's playing style to not work with people so that he can't be held accountable when they die.

I meant if he becomes a candidate in the future. It's worth noting in the later days, I think. If Richard is still alive while Navy becomes suspicious and is lynched (being scum), we know who to go to the next day.

I haven't gotten a scum vibe from Navy and most of the town hasn't either, IIRC. I don't think anyone even posed the idea of lynching Navy.

So diddin, do you believe Richard is scum? You only said you'd like more content from him.

[InflatablePie]

Also if you want to see someone who says absolutely nothing original look at thelonging as well.

I've noticed that since he brought up that Richard was "overly careful", since I brought that up using those words. In his recent post, he uses my words again. Maybe not exactly, but close enough.

*refreshes main page* Yay, Nico is back! *looks* ._.

[InflatablePie]

Either Richard's scum, or he's the wussiest townie out there. He seems to play only for his own survival, and goes crazy when someone even begins to suspect him. Personally, that's really scummy.

I'm going to ignore why you'd even vote for NL in the first place, and ask:

then why aren't you voting him if he's so damn scummy?

@ECookie - I agree about the people saying "oh, i'm still new etc.". It's getting really old and it's a horrid defense.

[InflatablePie]

Malp, where are you?

I was going to ask the same. Apparently, from a quick skim, he's in Dodgeball - 5 left, possible lylo. It's possible he's forgotten about this thread. According to that nifty link, his last post here was: 2009-12-28 18:21. I think he'll be eligible for a prod soon. I almost forgot about him, to be honest.

[InflatablePie]

@Fugi: Concerning 124 not being picked up on for 5 pages, see 128. I mentioned it, but I didn't run into "Fridge Brilliance" until 244.

If Richard is scum, Navy can also be scum due to the fact that Richard, an "inexperienced" player, is distancing himself from Navy.
However, this can also be seen as a scum tactic to get a townie lynched. That goes into WIFOM, though. Personally, I'm going to buy into Richard being a newbie, thus he wouldn't even think of doing something like that. If Rich is scum, I'd lean towards Navy being scum.

Fugi, that is fairly good reasoning. I'll wait to hear responses to your analysis, but I'm considering switching to Richard. I'm pretty sure he has 4-5 (?) votes on him now, so there's enough pressure for a response. Depending on said response, I may or may not change my vote.

[InflatablePie]

I almost forgot.

Unvote

FoSes remain on, in this order:
Richard (I've been suspecting him for a while - I agree with Fuji, more or less)
TheLonging (Also suspected. Still concentrating on himself as I pointed out, but at least has been seeming slightly more town lately. Still posts little OC and I want to hear from him.)

diddin (votes for NL, later says Richard is very scummy but withholds vote)
pman (Vote/Unvote of Fuji early D1, hasn't posted much of note recently)

Another thing to note: Bogre's 230 has a slight point. For people finding each other scummy, they (TL/Richard) confront each other in a "friendly banter"-type tone. Very odd.

Was gonna point out the fact that Richard avoided the question posed from Navy, but was ninja'd. However, that can be taken as Richard avoiding Navy again. Can further add to the argument that a Richard scumflip puts suspicion on Navy.

Out of Richard/TL, I'm leaning towards Richard. This obviously isn't my sole reason, but Richard's lynch has the added bonus of giving us information on TL/Navy, since he has some connection to both of them. He tries avoiding Navy, while calling him pro-town and hinting he's very slightly scummy at the same time. He constantly mentions Longing as scummy, though possibly because TL is a "safe vote" since others find him scummy and doesn't offer much on others. If Richard is scum, than one or both of these two will be suspicious in my eyes.

TheLonging still needs to post more than just when called upon as well as post more OC, and if nothing major changes my mind, my vote will probably be on him tomorrow.

To quote Anna's sig:

"A scumtell, for reference, is something that scum have more motivation to do than town."

Now, what motivation would Town have for specifically mentioning that they don't want to attack another player?

Upon thinking things over again, I've changed my mind. I predict that Richard's defense will be subpar and won't change my mind again. I'm not gonna wait.

Vote: RichardGHP

Unless someone (TL or otherwise) does something horribly scummy, or Richard pulls an amazing defense/explanation/other, I shouldn't be changing this vote.

[InflatablePie]

Five, I think. Not sure.

Mod: Vote Totals ("Votals") as soon as possible, please? Thank you.

Also, you're not even trying anymore, are you? At this point, if you're truly town, you should defend yourself and prove to us that you're town. Not say "yup, you're right", ignore Fugi's entire post and make an offhand votals remark. That hurts your case even more now.

[InflatablePie]

@Fugi, he said I'm

not

wrong. In other words, I'm right. His defense is subpar.

@Rich:
- I hardly call that trying.
- Don't bring up your past game, since that was SH and you were Saulus (Vampire).
- No, we'll lynch you because your actions have convinced us that you are scum.
- Then you shouldn't have posted at all, to be honest.
- I believe so.

[InflatablePie]

Concerning second dash, you were town aligned, but I consider Vampire more anti-town since he can be converted. Not a good case to bring up another game in the first place, nevermind using Vampire of all things as an example.

[InflatablePie]

Hmm, I overestimated the number of votes. Thanks, Tar.

Anna, you have a point. I'm used to 48-hour day games, so my playing style is a tad different. We do have almost 3 RL weeks... still sticking with Rich, though. And I can see myself doing so for the rest of gameday.

[InflatablePie]

I don't think I should be posting after a long day at work with no sleep last night... but here goes!

From mid p12-on:
- bball makes a long post, like Fugi, about Richard's scumminess, but also addressed some stuff about TheLonging wagon, both defending him and mentioning some stuff that still keep him scummy.
- soras votes (finally), settling on Richard with "I've made my case over the past few pages". Um, what? I recall you going around saying "I'm not voting for Richard until I haz PROOFS!". Has 3 posts 12 hours earlier with minor suspicions, the rest of his "obvious points" are recaps of the PBPAs.
- TheLonging makes a PBPA, with pretty much similar points as Fugi and bball, except

his has an angrier, more aggressive tone

. This surprised me, as

when under fire and close to lynch, he seemed to be very passive

. I don't know what to make of this yet.

p13
- Richard claims with only a few votes on him. Personally, I don't believe his claim. Will I feel guilty if this lynch is wrong? Probably. But like I posted earlier, scum has more motivation to distance themselves from other players, play a game of survival rather than scumhunt, and probably a few other points I'm forgetting. It took me a while to fully notice, but his actions thus far have seemed scummiest out of the players here.
- EtheralCookie pops in. The way he's posting makes me feel like he's

trying

to get a rise out of people. Dunno why. I haven't seen much of a contribution from him yet.
- pman in 318. Shows a lot of neutralness in the fact that he finds TL and Rich suspicious, instead opts for a third option in malp. In itself, that isn't that scummy... yet. If he comes under fire, though, it could be interpreted as him pushing for either wagon without being on it. His other "potentially suspicious people" list consists of him waffling (am I using that right?). He does that when mentioning Richard's claim, too.

Also thanks TheLonging for compiling Rich's posts, but I believe it was Fugi who did it first. Could be nothing; seems odd.

Not loving this post.
- r2r brought up a point about a softclaim in response to the Jack Claim, or rather, Rich's lack of one through the thread. While not a main reason, it certainly would have helped make his claim more believable. However, if he IS Town (which I doubt), then a softclaim could hurt if scum picked up on it. Not the greatest argument, but I see where he's coming from.

p14
- ckd, 332. Votes me (and I'll get to that at the end of my post), asks what Rich can do. Err, I'm pretty sure he just mentioned them a page or two ago, no? Did you even read the thread?
- EC adds some content, which is useful. I'll address his part on me specifically at the end of my post as well.
- Richard defends himself.
-- @Nico's second quote in 344: It's the fact that in 124, you changed your mind with, "activeness =/= town". Then you say you're gonna be active. It seems odd.
-- There were other options available at that time, Rich, rather than latching on to TL. A common strategy is to ask people questions in order to gain more information. You can't deny that it isn't odd (if not scummy) that you (along with many others) were all most suspicious of TL.

@Richard: role question - if you use your commuter ability, what exactly are you protected against? Just Nightkills, or stuff like investigation, etc. as well?


@curious: Not sure what you mean by vote timing exactly, but concerning "riding bandwagons":

Yes, I have been on both TL and Richard. However, I was on TL for some more reasons besides what everyone else was saying. I mentioned that TL was lurking in NY for long periods of time (and dissapearing once in a while, so it isn't like he left his browser on the page) without posting, unless it concerned him. I find it odd that he had nothing else to add at the time I pointed this out, since suspicion was still on him, IIRC. And he became less active when suspicion began to die down. (POST 251). He also reworded a lot of things others have said, notably my own words when I asked him a question (POST 206). His Vanilla claim means nothing to me - it doesn't change my views one way or the other.

I've been suspicious of Richard for quite a few posts before voting if you go back and look. He was on my FoS list for a while. Finally, after I saw every post analyzed and brought together (thanks to Fugi), combined with me thinking things over for a few minutes, I changed my vote. I applied more pressure and Rich didn't even offer ANY defense at the time. So I kept my vote, and I keep my vote now because I don't believe his claim or his defense. He claimed way too early combined with scummy play.


As for Cookie's brief view on me: that's how usually play. I try to look for people being neutral, or trying to stay out of the spotlight. This includes not voting, voting for someone who will probably not get lynched on said day (safe voting), and so on. I thought sora was going to completely abstain from voting, which I find can be a scumtell later on. I'm not saying we should throw around votes willy-nilly. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rushing. I've said earlier I'm used to faster games (48 hour Day/24 hour Night), so I've developed a faster playstyle, if that makes sense.

[InflatablePie]

Back from another long day at work. Happy New Years. ._.

@Bogre (387): I essentially stated that in last night's observation post, and I agree. Still suspicious of pman.

@ckd (389): I'll admit, the possibility of an investigation slipped my mind. Since we get a scan best-case, I'll

unvote

. I don't believe his claim due to his scummy actions and if he had claimed anything besides a scanning role (even one-shot), I'd still be on him. Remember that post about me not changing my mind? Yeah, I was stupid to say that.

@ckd (390): I don't get it.

@malp (399): I agree with talking before deadline... but we have had pages upon pages of stuff to talk about, and you say NOTHING else?

FoS: malp

.

@Fugi (402): I think he "just found" this role. I have reason (minor "evidence") to believe so, but it can kind of go circular.

@sora: (408/409): Seems like an odd thing to mention. Also *facepalm*.

@Fugi (427): How did I miss that? Devil's advocate, he could mean he'll just yell OMG FUGI IS TEH SCUM over and over. Worth noting, thanks for pointing that out.

@Longing (428): Your posts have taken on a slightly more aggressive tone, but you're contributing more. Still holding suspicions, though.

I'm off to watch the finale of TWBB, but expect me to do a (although probably short) PBPA of my two FoSes so far: diddin/pman later tonight (at the latest, tomorrow night).

[InflatablePie]

I'm alive, my internet just went down the shitter for a while. I'll post something after I read through the thread.

Vote: TheLonging, for 2 reasons.

1. OMGUS vote
2. Random voting is very anti-town and you should at least have an opinon on who is acting scummy and who isn't.

FOS: Richard, for jumpy voting habits and wagoning, but he tends to do that in all of his games and I need more to determine if it's because he's scum or because he's a noob.

Internet down the shitter or not, he posts after a vote and pseudo-prod. Votes TL after Konowa, and FoSes Richard after 5 votes (4 of them unvoted) for "jumpy voting habits". Richard refused to RVS vote, voted Fugi for "bandwagoning" in 29, then unvoted a page later in 54.

As an example, pman jokevotes "everyone" in 7 (and unvotes, saying the RVS is stupid), RVS votes soras in 18, unvotes in 32, votes Fugi in 46, unvotes in 49. But Richard has jumpy voting habits. Mmkay then.

In his vote on TL, his reasoning fits but I believe his points were already made by others (Parama addressed the OMGUS feel, pman addressed RLing). Ann points this out in 165.

unvote, TL seems honest and it looks like he just made a beginner's mistake for me.

Pman however, starts out the game inconsistently in the RVS, then seems eager for somebody to hammer TL. Posting that TL is at L-1 without adding any other content could mean "hey mafia buddies, somebody hammer him quick!" Not enough to warrent a vote, but enough to warrant an FoS for pman.

This is after r2r's 187, asking why people think TL is scum. Looks like diddin never had a real reason to vote. Calls out pman on his RVS stunt finally. I'm suspicious of pman, but I think that's a stretch.

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: No Lynch. All of this blind speculation is just causing paranoia and I think it would be better to not have a lynch unless I see something particularly scummy.

Do I really need to address this? scumdar go twitch twitch

Richard, Navy, Bogre express their opinions on this, and...

unvote, thanks for letting me know. I'm still semi-new to the mafiascum rules. I want to be sure I'm voting for a scum, or as sure as I can, so I'm holding back my vote.

You know what's funny?

Personally I dislike the diddin unvote, it seemed too eager.

Not buying this newness crap.

*quote tunnel*

Paranoia is scummy because when you are paranoid, you have an excuse to vote a townie and your paranoia "justifies" it. In other words, it's an excuse for bussing townies. You want to assume everybody is town and hunt for scum, not assume everybody is mafia and hunt for town.

And Pie: wouldn't it seem more scummy if I kept my vote for a no lynch after all of the suggestions. I think suspicion would be directed towards me either way, but I still want to find scum this round.

First off, being paranoid is scummy because town doesn't have a reason to be paranoid on Day 1. Or, at least, scum has way more reason to be so. Not to mention, you're not Richard (paranoia question was directed to him), are you?

Stresses again that he wants to find scum. Which he can't do with noting NL. A 180. And yes, since you voted NL in the first place, it didn't matter what you did, but if you would have pushed for NL, I would have found you scummier, I admit.

Beginning of this thread was RVS, I was gone because of bad internet, but the only thing I saw that was particularly scummy was pman self-contradicting himself and Richard's OMGUS vote. Konowa also seemed to want to start a wagon. Fugitive and Richard argue over who's badwagoning and OMGUSing, Richard unvotes in a STOP SUSPECTING ME! manner. TL promotes a random lynch and OMGUSes Konowa and the wagon starts on TL. TL claims Vanilla Townie, the wagon on him falls apart. Not really much else has happened in terms of voting.

People I'm suspicious of:

RichardGHP: the only thing he ever does is noobclaim and his voting habits are iffy. I'd like to see more content from him.

CCARaven: His "waffling" post seems to be trying to cover up potential scum-buddies while making himself look innocent by still being semi-suspicious of them.

TheLonging: even though the wagon on him fell apart, he's still semi-suspicious for OMGUS voting and making an appeal to ignorance where he says it was an accident that his post came off so scummish. He might be scum, but I'm getting a town-vibe from him.

pman: bad voting habits, overeagerness to be helpful, and just overall having some scummy actions.

Didn't mention pman until his second post, actually. Adds a small summary to fluff up his post. Then says why he's suspicious of [x], even though every reason seems to be a rewording.

Read his description of Raven. Then read TL's. Then Raven's. Then TL's, maybe looking at the last sentence an extra time. Repeat as necessary. Yeah.

Why are we all talking about whether Navy's gonna flip scum? He's done nothing to warrant a lynch, and "lynch him so we can find about others" is not a good idea. So why all of this blind speculation. I think it's just Richard's playing style to not work with people so that he can't be held accountable when they die.

I don't recall anyone pushing to lynch Navy, like he's implying. I mentioned it's noteworthy that in my eyes, if Navy flips scum, Richard's suspicions will skyrocket, if he's still alive. It's speculating a tad, but I like to make note of little things.

*quote tunnel*

Either Richard's scum, or he's the wussiest townie out there. He seems to play only for his own survival, and goes crazy when someone even begins to suspect him. Personally, that's really scummy.

See 265. Why'd you vote for NL, and why didn't you vote Richard then?

Richard, nobody asked you to claim, your voting habits still suck, and you play WAY too paranoid. The eager claim cemented my vote.

Vote: RichardGHP

Finally votes Richard. Not new reasons. Yawn.

I'm not liking how Dragons seemed so eager to jump on soras for talking about the potential for Richard being blocked. I still think Richard is lying, but it's pretty scummy to give the mafia any ideas, but the mafia probably would know to anyways, to the post is rendered moot.

But this, but that, but this. Flip flop more, please.

---

Anyways, I'm not sure if I'll have my PBPA of pman tonight - he's made more posts and I probably will have more to offer. I'll try and get to it by tomorrow night after work.

Note: something I noticed on P1/2 - TL votes for Navy in the RVS, then switches to Rich. Later, he sorta tries to "distance himself" as I've already seen. Since I don't believe the RVS is "truly random" for scum, it's something of note that I'm not sure was mentioned. Worth a mention now, anyway.

[InflatablePie]

That diddin quote w/o the # was 255. Sorry.

Anyway, diddin is suspicious, but I'm not sure if he'd get a vote from me at this time. I'm leaning towards either TheLonging, or possibly pman after I go back, as they seem like better options. I would still like diddin to post a little more, at least addressing some of my points above.

[InflatablePie]

I know I promised a PBPA, but after rereading, I find pman to be more town. Not to mention most of his posts in the beginning are jokes/irrelevant. And it is 4 AM.

Still minorly suspicious of him for the following posts:

7, 18, 27, 32 (concerning RVS)
37 (FoSes Fugi/Richard, two semi-popular contenders at the time IIRC)
46 (Votes Fugi for "bandwagoning", unvotes when called out)
73 (says there's nothing much to go on in response to Nico's 66, which I agree with)
144 (asks for a claim from TL; defends in 166)
318 (see my 360; defends in 381)

Posts that have pushed my opinion of him towards town:
318/381 (votes with solid although heard before reasoning, defends himself well. This post has gone 50/50 for me.)
Various posts after 392 - He's been contributing/asking questions lately.

I'm removing my FoS, but he's still having an eye kept on him for his early-game antics.

@pman: Post 88. Why care so much about diddin?
@pman: Post 318. You said you find the following players pro-town: EtherealCookie, NavyCherub, Parama, Konowa. Could you go more in-depth, and has your list changed at all?

I'm going to go ahead and do the following:

FoS: TheLonging, malp, sorasgoof
Vote: diddin

Don't think I've ever mentioned these. Most are gut feels (or lack of):
Pro-Town: Nico, Navy, Bogre
Neutrals/Neutral-Towns of note: pman, r2r, Dizzy, Fugi
Everyone else is either Neutral/Neutral-Scum or ???.

malp has been posting a lot in another game, but hasn't posted there for 2.5 days either. He doesn't seem to be wanting to play this game at all, and if this continues, I'd like to vote to replace. Hence why I'm voting for diddin instead of malp - at least diddin will be in here to address my suspicions.

I also cannot wait to hear from Konowa when he gets back from V/LA.

[InflatablePie]

I meant 5 AM. Geez, I hate my random instances of insomnia. In addition, about pman's 73: I agree with Nico's post 66, not pman. Just clarifying.

[InflatablePie]

InflatablePie. Have you heard of IoA. Information over Analysis.

Your #453, and the one 4 hours or so before it pretty much all Information, with the odd comment. No actual analysis that I've noticed.

PBPA's are prone to this, and prone to bias. Most of them tell me more about the writer than the target.

I find it strange that you only FOS'ed Malp, since with no pressure, ie: votes, there's nothing to force him to interact.

For the FoS on malp over voting: I believe that he just doesn't care about this game, be the lurking due to the holidays or the other game he is in (which he is posting regularly in). This game is coming up on one week, and he's posted what, 6 times? People have voted him before; I doubt he's even reading the thread. I'd much rather vote to replace him, tbh, since it seems he's not going to play. Meanwhile, diddin is semi-active and I know will be in here to respond to me.

@pman: Thanks. One last thing: a bit back, you unvoted malp because he was here. Any reason for the sudden change of heart?

diddin:
- Unvotes TL after asked why TL is scum. Shows he had little to no good reasoning to vote TL; goes along with the bandwagons easily.
- Votes for No Lynch, then in his next two posts says he wants to be sure he's lynching scum. Newbs and scum alike vote for NL, but the way he's saying he wants to catch scum seems odd to me, especially since you can't lynch scum by NLing.
- Calls Richard scum and lists his reasons, but still doesn't have a vote down until 35 posts later - that tells me he either wanted to avoid Rich or possibly wait for more votes. He finally voted after Rich's claim/the posts by Fugi/Nico/TL. Four votes had garnered by this time, leading me to believe diddin was waiting for a wagon to start before voting on Richard, incase said wagon was unsuccessful.
- Two things of note - he tries to avoid pman early on (FoSes Rich for jumpy voting, pman had been way worse; doesn't address this till later) and defends sora recently (saying DoS jumped on sora too soon for the Night Action talk). Not scummy per se, but notable.

I feel he's deserving of my vote for now.

No, I haven't heard about IoA. I assume it is what the name implies - just listing things over actually analyzing the posts? Looking back at what I posted with this in mind, this looks like what I've done. IoA does gives the impression of content, which can seem scummy. I attempted to list my thoughts on diddin's/pmans posts and different conclusions I could draw from them, and I feel that I still provided some content. I could probably have worded them better, though.

[InflatablePie]

Instead of commenting on the next few walls of text that have showed up since I went to sleep, I'm going to say that people are being way too long-winded in this thread. PBPAs are fine, but when a lot of the posts don't add anything relative to your argument, that makes most of the post just inane fluff, with a few good points lurking somewhere in it. It's bothering me because it makes me think people like Pie (just one example) are trying too hard to look town with all the walls of text.

Hence why I just listed the post #s for pman, since I ended up finding him more newbtownie lately and because most of his posts were irrelevant and/or jokes. I kind of noticed my mistake with diddin. Looking back, I could have done without the slight fluff that I used (as well as explaining myself better), but I'd say all of diddin's posts so far have at least one thing that doesn't sit right with me. I'll try to be more to-the-point in the future.

[InflatablePie]

I'll respond to Pie in a bit.

HoS sorasgoof

You're just digging a hole deeper and deeper, man. I started becoming suspicious of you a bit back, when you were stating you weren't gonna vote.

However, my vote stays on diddin until he can defend himself about my points in 462. Strange how you were sort of defending soras early on, and now you're voting him once he's garnering the most suspicion.

[InflatablePie]

diddin:
- Unvotes TL after asked why TL is scum. Shows he had little to no good reasoning to vote TL; goes along with the bandwagons easily.
- Votes for No Lynch, then in his next two posts says he wants to be sure he's lynching scum. Newbs and scum alike vote for NL, but the way he's saying he wants to catch scum seems odd to me, especially since you can't lynch scum by NLing.
- Calls Richard scum and lists his reasons, but still doesn't have a vote down until 35 posts later - that tells me he either wanted to avoid Rich or possibly wait for more votes. He finally voted after Rich's claim/the posts by Fugi/Nico/TL. Four votes had garnered by this time, leading me to believe diddin was waiting for a wagon to start before voting on Richard, incase said wagon was unsuccessful.
- Two things of note - he tries to avoid pman early on (FoSes Rich for jumpy voting, pman had been way worse; doesn't address this till later) and defends sora recently (saying DoS jumped on sora too soon for the Night Action talk). Not scummy per se, but notable.

1. I believed TL's claim of Vanilla Townie, and looked back and thought he wasn't as scummy as I first thought. And how was I on the wagon? I was only like the second or third person to vote for TL.

2. My no-lynch vote was just to test what people thought of a no-lynch. Looking back, I should've just suggested it instead of outright voting for it.

3. I was waiting for Richard to claim, knowing he would do so in his claim-happy fashion.

4. My main suspicion on pman was his apparent eagerness to point out TL was at L-1, I didn't think the RVS thing warranted an FoS. And with soras, I didn't particularly think the night action talk was scummy, this recent shenanigan was to me.

1. I wasn't saying that you were on TL's bandwagon, but that your unvote at the time, made it seem like you had little reaosn to vote. Eh, okay. I believe this.
2. k

3. "claim-happy"? I don't recall Richard claiming in another game until closer to lynch. I think you were waiting for a wagon.
4. I could have sworn you said you were suspicious of pman because of his RVS stunt. I'll go back and check. In addition, you don't think NA speculation is scummy at all?

unvote

Vote: sorasgoof

Reluctance to vote at all early on, NA speculation, and I've had enough of these mother****ing newbclaims in this mother****ing game. </SoaP>

@sora: Who do you think is the scummiest in the game so far, and why is your vote not on that person despite their suspicion?

@Fugi: Any thoughts concerning recent events?

And diddin, I like how you used what I said to you about Rich earlier, TO Rich just now. It's a good point. He more or less says "Hard to believe you're that noobish/ohwait but he could be a noob."

@Rich, have TL's recent posts changed your mind about him? Is he more scummy or more pro-town?

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: When I said I didn't know about TheLonging being town/scum, I meant that I wasn't 100% sure, but in my eyes he seems town.

Then explain your vote on him.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: When I said I didn't know about TheLonging being town/scum, I meant that I wasn't 100% sure, but in my eyes he seems town.

Then explain your vote on him.

At the time he was suspicious. Since then my suspicion on him has gone down to the point where I think I can confidently call him town.

Uh, did I miss your unvote? Because in that case (according to votals), you're voting for someone you think is Town. Great logic.

[InflatablePie]

So you're voting for me for the exactly same qualities that Richard has been showing all game? The only thing I've done differently than Richard, at least in regard to your list, is speculate on night actions. And, I'm sorry, but I'm seriously NOT seeing how that is scummy at all. If I were scum, why would I need to speculate? I would KNOW which scum had which role. Anyway, I could have told the mafia at night what to do, instead of posting it in thread. So this sudden onrush of votes because of "night action/role speculation" is really scummy to ME.

And as for your question, I haven't really been able to think of other people, because I've been too busy trying to explain myself to people who are trying to condemn me for something that I never even thought was wrong.

Are you trying to imply that Richard is the better lynch now? Admittedly, it flew over my head (as well as others') that he has an investigation, so I kept my vote despite his claim. Richard is not the best lynch ATM because we still have a chance at a scan.

In addition, I wanted to see how you've done under pressure.

soras, could you name two-three people you think are most likely town, and two people besides pman you think are most likely scum?

Fugi, that last sentence kind of sounds like you aren't voting TL because it won't get any backing. That's a bit scummy, you know. But I can attest to Fuji being conservative in voting. Except for once (maybe twice) where he tried breaking out of it, Fuji's a careful guy.

[InflatablePie]

^loltags, but it should be obvious who I was trying to quote.

[InflatablePie]

College is for squares!

Erm, I've joined up on another game off-site, but I'll still try to be active here of course. Heads up, though.

pman's list does seem odd. Other than that, no new thoughts.

[InflatablePie]

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

I believe I've already said why I voted and unvoted TL and Richard. As for soras, I believe I mentioned why I found him scummy - NA spec, claiming newbisheness, saying he wasn't gonna vote at all early in Day (and seemingly retracting, saying he meant Real Life day, maybe I read wrong), as well as noting it was partly for pressure in 548. He hasn't responded too well in my eyes.

Richard's comment asking sora if he has "any last words" seems off coupled with his lack of vote.

Offtopic: Anyone else have MS go down for a few minutes?

[InflatablePie]

Unvote

for discussion, which is rarely a bad thing.

Ya'll talk too much.

Catching up from page nine now.

A lot has happened, so I'm going to give Konowa the chance to catch up and post his thoughts. I've been waiting to hear from him, too.

[InflatablePie]

Stopping in real quick...

By the way, your post suggests that you could be a mafia-aligned PR, because you demand I stop "speculating". For all I know you could be a scum PR trying not to slip.

1. Hey Richard! Hey! Hey, listen! Hey! Stop speculating. OH WHAT NOW

2. Hello pot, meet my friend kettle? Am I getting confused, or weren't you suspicious of sora for speculating?

[InflatablePie]

I have a question that I'd like to pose at Rich and sora. I will probably follow this question up with another after I get my answers.

Do you each fully believe that the other is scum?

[InflatablePie]

I would've asked this sooner, but I was away:

Again, @Richard/sora.

Let's say, hypothetically, you were to place a bet that the other is scum. Would you bet your survival that the other is scum? In other words, if the other one of you ISN'T scum, we get to lynch you tomorrow.

Would you be willing to place this bet at this time?

(I'm not proposing this, it's purely hypothetical)

More suspicion towards diddin, I'll explain later on.

Mod: I second the malp replacement, I think he's due time for another prod either way.

[InflatablePie]

@sora: You didn't need to load the question. I'm not up for lynching townies, and any lynch will give us information, to be honest. I think that there is at least one scum on your wagon, probably, looking for an easy vote.

@Richard: I'm not a mind reader. I guess we'd go after someone on your wagon, possibly someone pressing for your lynch. Then again, I don't exactly speak for the town.


See, the reason I asked you guys is that caution can be a scumtell.

soras, you said you don't think you weren't quite sure you would bet your survival, saying that it's because Richard claimed Jack. I think that if you were really so sure he was scum, it wouldn't matter what he said: you should still find his actions scummy. I don't think you're as sure as you think you are.

On the other hand, Rich outright said he wouldn't take the bet, which can be taken as him looking out for himself. Admittedly though, he is a supposed power role as well as insanely paranoid.

I am more suspicious of diddin for a useless FoS and stupid reasoning. I don't think any scum would be stupid enough to openly bus each other on D1.

I don't think that we'll be lynching Richard today, because he is provable and we have a chance at a scan. Then again, while I hold my suspicions, something doesn't seem right about the sora wagon.

Awaiting votals.

[InflatablePie]

Last part on @sora's applies moreso if he is town, btw. I'm a bit unsure now.

[InflatablePie]

If he is scum, I will eat a teabag.

You know, showing you're so sure that another person is town is horribly scummy. It's either buddying up, which town shouldn't need to do, or the fact that you are scum and of course know who is and isn't town. There's a difference between saying someone is probably town and someone is near 100% town (which I believe is implied by threatening to eat a teabag), especially at this stage in the game.

You're getting my vote tomorrow at this rate, but being that you're provable, I really don't think we should lynch you, no matter how stupid you're being.

[InflatablePie]

Why?

Because he posts things that are "interesting"?

In addition, read Fugi's post everyone. Use the phrase countervote if you must, but I agree fully.

[InflatablePie]

and if neither of them are scum, would you be willing to die next for suggesting this idea? This plan is horrid and scummy. If we lynch one today no matter their alignment, we make a judgement tomorrow ABOUT EVERYONE...not just the other.

Yes, I realize this. Like I responded to Richard - I'm not a mind reader about what will happen if we lynch him, it's the same for sora. There are a few other factors that will determine what happens tomorrow.

ckd, this situation was purely hypothetical. It was to see how much they really thought the other was scum. Both of them have shown some sort of doubt that the other was scum. Townie outnumber scum, and especially if you're a vanilla, one townie for one scum is often a good trade.

I, too, think that's a bad idea of what to do. But yes, if a town were to follow the directions of someone to lynch two townies, that person would be the first to be lynched next.

[InflatablePie]

Speculating, speculating, and speculating about speculating. Makes my head hurt, really. Those who pay more attention to the setup than players' actions early on are people to keep an eye on, IMO.

@r2r: I say go for it. It could cause some good discussion, which is never bad.

diddin's looking worse, in my eyes, as well as a few others'. I'm pretty sure at this point, no one would be opposed to a diddin lynch either? I may be wrong.

Hmm... where'd Raven go? And Konowa?

[InflatablePie]

Irrelevant. But if you must know, I've been in 2 (on D2 of a third - 48 hour days BTW) GameFAQs forum games, one game from ScoreHero (as most of this game knows).

So about four other games. I fully completed about two of them when I joined this one, IIRC.

And Konowa said he'd be V/LA till this past Monday. And has posted saying he needs to catch up, I think.

[InflatablePie]

managed to call Fugitive “fugi”, “fuji”, and “fuigi” in the same paragraph (45).

He does it on purpose because in one game he started addressing me as "Fuji" because he was typing it aesthetically and not even realizing it. So now he'll spell my name however he feels.

What Fugitive (a.k.a. "It's-a-me! Fuigi!") said.

[InflatablePie]

I'm not trying to make them any less significant; I'm just acknowledging that I know people are going to find certain things stupid/hypocritical. Sometimes I want to say certain things, even if they are hypocritical. Call the inb4s a disclaimer of sorts - by putting that there, I am telling people that I know my actions are strange for whatever reason, and if I saw it in someone else's posts I would get a "I know I'm doing this, you don't need to call me out on it" vibe, which is, in part, what I try to achieve with inb4.

It still makes your actions stupid/hypocritical, which shows that instead of posting them, maybe try and reword it or find a different argument?

Acknowledging your own faults can also be seen as a very early defense for stuff that we may not even find suspicious in the first place.

Lastly, inb4 is annoying.

[InflatablePie]

Sorry. Would you prefer "in before"?

I'd prefer at least a sentence on why you acknowledge that said point is bad or flimsy. No one can stop you from being hypocritical/stupid, but at least make it less aggravating.

Or, you know, don't make the argument at all if it's Swiss cheese. I don't know why you'd knowingly make an argument that's full of holes, especially when people already suspect you as is. It's making me wonder if you're actually Scum, or just stupid. Could be both.

Question; an @everyone voting for Rich, since there's been some of those popping up:

Do you all realize you're voting for a provable? Admittedly, I made the same mistake when I voted for him earlier on, but I'm wondering why you guys would be so eager to change back your votes even after the discussion of letting Rich live for another day.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP: Kind of ninja'd by Nico, although I addressed the one part he didn't (...odd). Shoulda refreshed.

[InflatablePie]

Richard was very concerned with who was voting for him and how many people were voting for him, but hasn’t done it anymore since I called him out on it. I think this is a major scum tell, he was being overly paranoid, Richard is on my scum list.

I don't get how being concerned about who is voting you is a scumtell. In addition, Richard is paranoid, like you said. Null tell, IMO.

Also, Richard claims JoaT, and the only person who knows that he’s lying is the real JoaT (no, I don’t believe his claim).
Think about it, for scum, JoaT is a great claim, because of the Jacks very specific actions.

Okay, you don't believe his claim. Cool. However, Jack is a provable, so at most he lives one more day if he really is scum. Not the greatest claim, being that scum's powers is in numbers and the less on the scumteam, the less power they have.

action-by-action stuff

See, if we lynch Richard tomorrow, then we'll know if he's town or scum. If he's scum, we ignore the "scan" or whatever action (since it can be WIFOM), if he's town, there's a possible clear for a protective role to possibly target.

As you guys can see, I think that Richard was very smart to claim JoaT, because it is so easy to fake. From the town’s view, if we were to lynch the real JoaT, then I don’t believe that we are losing as much as we would gain if he were lying.

By that logic, a cop is even easier to fake. He can just fake scans on players until whenever.

Personally, if we are going to lynch a claimed, I would feel safer with lynching a vanilla claim than a possibly PROVABLE power role.

I don't know about ckd. He's a bit odd, but I'm not sure if he's scummy.

Ckd seems extremely hell bent on a diddin lynch. Why? What do you (ckd) know that the rest of us don’t?

ITT: an FoS is hellbent on a lynch.

Town lists, in my eyes, are good for gauging reactions.

Vote: RichardGHP

And another vote for a provable. Although I can't say I like TheLonging's switch to soras, I like this even less.

Vote: CCARaven

I'd also support a diddin or pman lynch at this time. I know, I change my mind a lot.

Sorry for not being here much the past few days, guys.

[InflatablePie]

In addition, a wise pointer.

If your reasoning goes along the lines of, "He's scum, so this is scummy" or even "He's town, so this is pro-town", there's something wrong.

[InflatablePie]

I'm here. Between real life and two other games offsite, I've neglected this one. Didn't think it was that long since I've posted.

Not sure what to make of the whole DoS thing yet. I'll try to get an actual content post in by tonight.

[InflatablePie]

No real content yet, because a game I'm in is ~4 hours to deadline and I'm a bit preoccupied (sorry), but I never posted the lynches I'd support, did I?

CCARaven
diddin
TheLonging

Raven is mostly gut, I had a post on him a bit back (somewhere around the 8th or 9th?), and not that I think TL is 100% scum, but his hesitance to vote TL because he claimed Vanilla is odd to me.

diddin, I've had my vote on him at a point, unvoted him because he got in here and started contributing more... but he's still suspicious. I don't know if there was any other reason I had for unvoting him, and I'd support this lynch if the Raven one doesn't take off.

TheLonging, eh, is mostly gut. Don't fully believe Vanilla, his attitude changed once he fell out of the voting spotlight... can't remember anything concrete, though.

Richard's still scummy, but we aren't lynching him yet, obviously...

I can't wait to hear from the new guy.

DoS telling people to lynch him is tempting... but I'm not feeling the wagon as much as everyone else.

I am getting a bit tired, though, I will admit, since I'm used to 48-hour days and this day has lasted forever in comparison. ehhh. =/

[InflatablePie]

Well, if you are so hell-bent on lynching me, go ahead, and enjoy your townie lynch.

I don't really know what to think of Dragons, I think he needs to post more, he hasn't done anything EXTREMELY scummy to me.

Of course DoS has done scummy things. Everybody does something scummy occasionally. But I thought your 874 didn't have enough arguments to lock him in as scum for me.

Well, these plus the fact that the Raven lynch isn't taking off...

Unvote

Vote: diddin

[InflatablePie]

So, has anyone asked for Richard's results yet?

...

<_<

[InflatablePie]

Usually when someone demands a claim right off the bat D1, they usually have some sort of information. Could be a gambit, but doubtful.

Holy...fine. I'm a roleblocker, I used it on Flareonage last night, but that clearly got nowhere.

Just happened to be a dead mafia. Right.

Vote: NavyCherub

(Tristan: I don't believe you!)


Not liking Richard because of the commuter dying - kind of weird that there'd be multiple commutes, but then again, Fugi's is limited. On another hand, Richard hadn't been the best looking yesterday, like I've said a few times.

IIRC, Richard also tried to distance himself from Navy on D1 and:

On the topic of Richard's investigation, I think that I buy Richard's claim for now. Having two people with commuter abilities is definitely not a reason for it to be false.

...if Navy really does flip scum, definitely gonna be suspicious of Richard.

Actually, Richard should be looked at still, no matter what, since Dizzy's report kind of defends Richard in a sense. Navy flips town, we have two scum. But it wouldn't make sense for two scum to sac themselves to out a single townie. o_O

Oh, and soras is suspicious, for sort of suggesting the RB thing yesterday.

I think that's it.

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP:

Vote DizzyIzzyB13

OMGUS.

That's called a countervote, Rich. Not an OMGUS.

If you are so confident that Dizzy is lying, then prove it.

She didn't post as much as most of the town yesterday and decided to tunnel me after answering her question. I'm fairly sure she's been planning this.

lurking =/= scumtell, and if anything that definitely explains why she used her scan on you.

Why'd you use your "roleblock" on Flare, not like it matters?

[InflatablePie]

Refer to Pie's long post of the day. Don't you think it's kind of scummy, how he's subtly defending Navy and pointing out anyone that Navy associated with on D1 to set up possible mislynches tomorrow?

1. Point out where I "subtly" defended Navy, because I'm not seeing it, tbqh.
2. I'm pointing out people he associated with on D1 because if he flips scum, it's a good way to get an idea of other people. Just like if diddin flipped scum: anyone defending him would have been looked at closely the next Day.

[InflatablePie]

First bold - could be a gambit. When I say "could be a gambit", I mean that outright demanding a claim and trying to hint information could be a gambit. I've seen players do it before. Personally? I don't doubt Izzy and for the time being, there's no real reason not to.

Second bold - True, surprisingly I didn't think of that. Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight. I've mentioned the Richard thing before and I'm still wary of Richard... but you're right.

Third bold - soras DID speculate this, seemingly out of nowhere. I'm keeping a very close eye on him now, since Richard has a semi-failed/nonresult investigation. Thought I've mentioned this before, too.

I'm not trying to "plant seeds". It sounds like you're assuming I'm scum and that's why I'm saying these things. But it's just my current thoughts on where we can go from here, tomorrow.

[InflatablePie]

Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight.

what?

I don't understand this, explain please

I meant if they're both scum, it'd be highly unlikely. Since that was what Nico was trying to say I was implying ("Navy-Rich scumteam"). Sorry, I'm getting sleepy. ~_~

[InflatablePie]

If Navy really is scum Roleblocker, it'd make no sense to block Richard.

For that to be a viable strategy, it'd be some huge Xanatos Gambit (Navy knew Izzy is, or that there even was, a tracker, so targeted his scum vanilla buddy on the offchance he himself was targeted; or something) that wouldn't even be worth it for scumNavy.

Only reason I'm even speculating about being scumblocker is that Navy claimed townblocker.

In other words, unless Navy flips something besides Scum Roleblocker, a Navy/Richard team doesn't make sense at all.

[InflatablePie]

I do, and that's why I'm voting Navy.

I'm saying that upon a second look, Nico was right about the high unlikely-ness of a Richard/Navy scumteam.

[InflatablePie]

Due to both my real life schedule, and me biting off more than I could chew in the number of games I'm in (mostly offsite), I regret to inform that I will be replacing out of this game.

As this game has already had multiple replacements, I'm extremely sorry to those playing for the inconvenience I will cause by this. Hope to play with some of you again once my priorities are settled.