Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[InflatablePie]

Refer to Pie's long post of the day. Don't you think it's kind of scummy, how he's subtly defending Navy and pointing out anyone that Navy associated with on D1 to set up possible mislynches tomorrow?

1. Point out where I "subtly" defended Navy, because I'm not seeing it, tbqh.
2. I'm pointing out people he associated with on D1 because if he flips scum, it's a good way to get an idea of other people. Just like if diddin flipped scum: anyone defending him would have been looked at closely the next Day.

[Nicodemus]

Usually when someone demands a claim right off the bat D1, they usually have some sort of information.

Could be a gambit, but doubtful.

Holy...fine. I'm a roleblocker, I used it on Flareonage last night, but that clearly got nowhere.

Just happened to be a dead mafia. Right.

Vote: NavyCherub

(Tristan: I don't believe you!)

Not liking Richard because of the commuter dying - kind of weird that there'd be multiple commutes, but then again, Fugi's is limited. On another hand, Richard hadn't been the best looking yesterday, like I've said a few times.

IIRC, Richard also tried to distance himself from Navy on D1 and:

On the topic of Richard's investigation, I think that I buy Richard's claim for now. Having two people with commuter abilities is definitely not a reason for it to be false.

...if Navy really does flip scum, definitely gonna be suspicious of Richard.

Actually, Richard should be looked at still,

no matter what

, since Dizzy's report kind of defends Richard in a sense. Navy flips town, we have two scum. But it wouldn't make sense for two scum to sac themselves to out a single townie. o_O

Oh, and soras is suspicious, for sort of suggesting the RB thing yesterday.

I think that's it.

Bolds are added by me.

But you see what you're doing here right? You're subtly casting doubt on Dizzy's actions by stating that it could be a gambit (first bold). We'll know if it's a gambit if Navy flips town, no point bringing it up when you did except to cause some hesitation. And you're trying to set up a Richard mislynch by pointing to D1 interactions (2nd bold) and making a Navy-Richard scumteam. But Navy's night actions (according to Dizzy) make that highly unlikely, as Navy would have had to have RB'ed his fellow mafia mate. Does that make sense? Not really. You're just trying to plant the seed of scumRichard in our heads. And you throw some soras in at the end, once again planting seeds to use tomorrow (3rd bold)

It's subtle, but it's there.

[RichardGHP]

@ckd, my mind is going blank this afternoon and as such it is not obvious what my choice should be. Care to enlighten?

[InflatablePie]

First bold - could be a gambit. When I say "could be a gambit", I mean that outright demanding a claim and trying to hint information could be a gambit. I've seen players do it before. Personally? I don't doubt Izzy and for the time being, there's no real reason not to.

Second bold - True, surprisingly I didn't think of that. Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight. I've mentioned the Richard thing before and I'm still wary of Richard... but you're right.

Third bold - soras DID speculate this, seemingly out of nowhere. I'm keeping a very close eye on him now, since Richard has a semi-failed/nonresult investigation. Thought I've mentioned this before, too.

I'm not trying to "plant seeds". It sounds like you're assuming I'm scum and that's why I'm saying these things. But it's just my current thoughts on where we can go from here, tomorrow.

[pman5595]

Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight.

what?

I don't understand this, explain please

[InflatablePie]

Odds are highly unlikely Navy targeted Rich, in hindsight.

what?

I don't understand this, explain please

I meant if they're both scum, it'd be highly unlikely. Since that was what Nico was trying to say I was implying ("Navy-Rich scumteam"). Sorry, I'm getting sleepy. ~_~

[InflatablePie]

If Navy really is scum Roleblocker, it'd make no sense to block Richard.

For that to be a viable strategy, it'd be some huge Xanatos Gambit (Navy knew Izzy is, or that there even was, a tracker, so targeted his scum vanilla buddy on the offchance he himself was targeted; or something) that wouldn't even be worth it for scumNavy.

Only reason I'm even speculating about being scumblocker is that Navy claimed townblocker.

In other words, unless Navy flips something besides Scum Roleblocker, a Navy/Richard team doesn't make sense at all.

[pman5595]

If Navy really is scum Roleblocker, it'd make no sense to block Richard.

For that to be a viable strategy, it'd be some huge Xanatos Gambit (Navy knew Izzy is, or that there even was, a tracker, so targeted his scum vanilla buddy on the offchance he himself was targeted; or something) that wouldn't even be worth it for scumNavy.

Only reason I'm even speculating about being scumblocker is that Navy claimed townblocker.

In other words, unless Navy flips something besides Scum Roleblocker, a Navy/Richard team doesn't make sense at all.

so you don't trust dizzy's claim?

[InflatablePie]

I do, and that's why I'm voting Navy.

I'm saying that upon a second look, Nico was right about the high unlikely-ness of a Richard/Navy scumteam.

[DedicatedScribe]

I'm pretty sure Navy is a roleblocker. He wouldn't have claimed if he wasn't (we'd be able to find him wrong very quickly by looking how his ability wasn't affecting the game), and Dizzy says Navy role blocked Richard.

Now, if Navy roleblocked a scumbud, I consider this a misplay on his part.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ckd, my mind is going blank this afternoon and as such it is not obvious what my choice should be. Care to enlighten?

nope, scum should stay on their toes, unlike yesterday this should NOT be talked about....but after events today and if navy flips scum, it should be obvious..

[Tarballs]

2nd Vote Count of Day 2

9 - NavyCherub

(DizzyIzzyB13, curiouskarmadog, Parama, pman5595, RichardGHP, sorasgoof, DedicatedScribe, InflatablePie, TheLonging)

1 - DizzyIzzyB13

(NavyCherub)

7 - Not voting

(Bogre, DragonsofSummer, CryMeARiver, Konowa, CCARaven4, ready2rock, Nicodemus)

The town believes to have found a dirty liar and the angry mob quickly surrounds NavyCherub. Some people haven't even had time to eat breakfast, when they see NavyCherub hanging from a lamp post.

NavyCherub,

Mafia Roleblocker

, has been lynched.

It is now Night 2. If you have a night action, send it to me by PM before the deadline, or you will not act this night.

Night 2 will end January 24th, at ~1 AM (GMT).

[Tarballs]

Seems like I miscalculated the deadline. The night will end on the 24th, not the 25th. So, you have a bit less than 11 hours to submit/change your night actions.

[Tarballs]

Oh dear, what is this? There are even more bodies this morning, and to make things worse, all of them are townies!

Parama,

Voyeur

, shot Night 2
Nicodemus,

Bodyguard

+

Neighbor

, sliced Night 2
DragonsofSummer,

Vanilla Townie

, popped Night 2

It is now Day 3.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline for this day is February 9th, 2010.

[curiouskarmadog]

interesting..dizzy/richard claim please.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

'Kay, since there appear to be patterns of kills, it appears we have three factions or people with killing roles to some extent or another.

#1 - The Slicer.

Kill(s):
Flareonage, Mafia Doctor N1
Nicodemus, Bodyguard and neighbour, N2.

#2 - The Shooter

Kill(s):
Fugitive, Even-Night Communter and Neighbour, N1
Parama, Voyeur, N2

#3 - The Popper

Kill(s):
DragonsofSummer, Vanilla Townie, N2

#3 has the most variables. The most likely scenario in my eyes is that s/he is a One Shot Vigilante, but there's nothing to confirm that suspicion either way - it could be the result of a successful Doc protect, for example.

#2 would appear to be the Mafia kills. Conventional wisdom would suggest that shooting kills are Mafia, and they've struck both nights and nit no mafia targets. The kills seem kinda strange, though - what made Parama a more attractive target than either of the two outed power roles who Navy's lynch would appear to pretty much confiurm as town (myself and Richard).

#1... #1 is the most interesting. It'll either be a vigilante or a serial killer and given the third kill and the presence of a Mafia Doc, I'm leaning serial killer. I think this needs to be considered, because at this point, with 2 scum down, it could dreastically affect the manner in which we approach finding the remaining anti-town elements, since we may or may not be looking at people who are able to communicate with each other.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

CKD: I targeted DragonsofSummer, but he didn't do anything on account of being a vanilla townie. He was the #2 suspect I had based on the bandwagon analysis I conducted, and since #1 Navy had turned up scum, I wanted to see if #2 was worth following.

[RichardGHP]

interesting..dizzy/richard claim please.

Why? We have already claimed. If you were referring to actions, it should be obvious what mine was.

Though, I'm curious, what exactly is a Voyeur? Couldn't find it anywhere after a search.

[pman5595]

I would also like to know what a voyeur is.

the three different kill flavors are, confusing, to say the least.

I believe both richard and izzy at this point.

don't know what to go on today.

I like 5 better than 4, so here is a fifth line of text.

[RichardGHP]

Mod: I will be V/LA from 27th to 31st January GMT+13 time.

[ready2rock]

In response to Konowa:

what do you gather from that? that they are scummy or easy? What was the point of this post?

It was more of an informational post. The point of these lists was for the town to come to a concensus, and this was the closest to a consensus that we reached.

Voting chart is scummy busy work

OK, would you rather I not post them then? I make those as much for my reference as for the town’s, but if you think that posting what I keep in my word document for reference is scummy, I’m not going to change your mind on that one.

(iso post 16) Waffles on me; says it could be a town move, but it could be a scum move too. If you thought I was scum for suggesting this [everyone vote who they thought was scum] why no comment on it at the time and why did you follow my suggestion?

Look at my iso post 23. I admit that it wasn’t the strongest case and that you were #4 on my list of suspicious people, I removed you from the list once you provided a satisfactory defense, and I never even voted for you. I now find you to be aggressive town.

Quoted this because there are a few things I do find scummy. First, reasons given for voting Richard are thin. The first reason listed is horrible; you are voting him because he did not softclaim, thus it is not believable? Second reason listed has nothing to do with his claim. Then the whole "vote till you defend yourself" stance is scummy. This is nothing but scum voting for someone while leaving a backdoor out at the same time. Asking about how common joat's are furthers this point in my view. The entire post looks very thin and stretched in an attempt to look town.

1. You didn’t quote my whole post. This is misrep from my point of view. First of all, I say that this is the reasoning OTHER THAN what other people have posted. Second of all, I provided another reason of my own as well concerning him saying that people are making it hard for him to defend himself.

2. On my first reason: it was the fact that saying that he was JoaT was enough to convince people after THREE PBPA of him saying that he was scum (see below).

3. On my second reason: This was because in 278, he pretty much admitted that his defense was subpar and refused to give it. Then in 281, after being called out on this post, he promised a defense the next day. The next day, after two more PBPA came in on him, is defense was “I claim Jack of all Trades” instead of giving the defense he said he was going to give. That is why I asked where his promised defense was.

4. On my asking about JoaT: I didn’t know how common they were and wanted to see if it was plausible that he could be that role in this sort of game. I wasn’t the only one to ask about the role. Many people questioned the absence of a one shot kill.

5. If the “entire post” was so scummy, then why didn’t you quote the entire post?

Hesitation to vote DoS is making me twitch. I am really having trouble believing that you were being careful (no caution shown with earlier votes). To me it is more likely that you were waiting to see if the wagon actual gathered any momentum.

There was a difference between DoS and Richard (which I assume is what you’re referring to). With Richard, he had already posted pretty much refusing to provide a defense. DoS hadn’t posted yet since Parama had voted for him, so I was waiting to hear from him. Once I saw that he provided zero defense, I voted for him.

Also, you still haven’t answered my question. If CCARaven is my scum buddy, why would I put him on my scum list?

I'll post additional thoughts in a little bit since I didn't participate at all in day 2.

[pman5595]

I would also like to know what a voyeur is.

the three different kill flavors are, confusing, to say the least.

I believe both richard and izzy at this point.

don't know what to go on today.

I like 5 better than 4, so here is a fifth line of text.

[ready2rock]

By the way, the first vote was concerning my post where I pointed out that diddin was on everyone's top 3 scum list.

First off, I believe Richard's claim and Dizzy's claim now.

I was very surprised to see that Parama and DragonsofSummer were both town. They seemed to be targeting each other quite often.

The only thing that I can think of to do is to take a look at the voting records and see where that gets us.

curiouskarmadog: CSL, CSL, InflatablePie, ready2rock, sorasgoof, RichardGHP,

diddin

Bogre: RichardGHP, TheLonging.

pman5595

DedicatedScribe: TheLonging, malpascp,

diddin

DizzyIzzyB13: CSL,

NavyCherub

,
DragonsofSummer: CSL, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

CryMeARiver: CCARaven4, Konowa, sorasgoof
Konowa: CSL, pman5595, Fugitive, TheLonging,

NavyCherub

,
Flareonage: CSL,

diddin

RichardGHP: Fugitive, TheLonging, sorasgoof, DragonsofSummer, diddin,

diddin

CCARaven4: RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP
InflatablePie: Fugitive, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin, sorasgoof, CCARaven4,

diddin

sorasgoof: curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, pman5595,

DragonsofSummer

ready2rock: diddin, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP, curiouskarmadog, pman5595,

DragonsofSummer

diddin: TheLonging, No Lynch, RichardGHP, sorasgoof,

Nicodemus

Fugitive: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, RichardGHP,

diddin

pman5595: everyone, sorasgoof, Fugitive, TheLonging, malpascp, malpascp, sorasgoof,

diddin

Nicodemus: InflatablePie, pman5595, RichardGHP, malpascp, sorasgoof,

diddin

NavyCherub: Fugitive, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin, sorasgoof, diddin
Parama: curiouskarmadog, diddin, danakillsu, TheLonging, DragonsofSummer, pman5595, sorasgoof, RichardGHP, DragonsofSummer,

diddin

TheLonging: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, Konowa, RichardGHP, sorasgoof, RichardGHP, sorasgoof, diddin, DragonsofSummer,

diddin

Not voting: CCARaven4, CryMeARiver

[ready2rock]

Actually, I'm not sure how useful that will be since everyone pretty much voted for everyone, there were a lot of bandwagons, and I think Parama's record is the scummiest there, and he's a confirmed townie.

[curiouskarmadog]

richard, when someone asked you to "claim" they are also asking you to "claim" what you did...so you have avoided the question..please CLAIM what you did last night.

---
i think we have a SK/and a vig...I am pretty sure the popper is the vig. I also find it strange that neither the mafia or the Sk wanted to kills the claimed "tracker" or "joat". But with both alive, it doesnt mean much, just something I thinks to be noted.

I need to reread Nic, but mafia is loading SOOOO slow for some reason.