Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[Limerickx]

Reply to SC:

First of all, creating numbers to lay out my 'points' is misleading, dontcha think? Regardless of that fact, I'll answer in kind:

This happened before Starbuck's flip (clearly). If I was wrong about Starbuck, I was always in favour of turning to imprints.

1a) Of course you would be in favor of imprinting with no lynch AFTER Starbuck flipped. If she was town, all the heat would be on you! What better way to try and stem that then say 'Lets imprint and not lynch guys,' right when a townie who was lynched based off your push flips town.

I was always in favour of turning to imprints. It was only when we had a good lead on scum that I thought imprinting was a bad idea.

1b)One of your entire arguments against imprinting night one was that the ratio was so high, yet you were so sure that both DN and Starbuck were scum. If that were the case, however, that would leave only 2 scum unaccounted for, and 10 townies! Even if you weren't 100% sure on starbuck, it would still be 3 to 9, but neither Starbuck nor DN were anywhere NEAR getting imprinted. So your top two suspects weren't close to getting imprints, so what was the problem with imprinting then, so much so that you had to hammer someone who wasn't close to being imprinted? You think voting for imprints when we have ideas who scum are is a worse idea then when we don't? Wouldn't we have a better chance of not giving imprints to scum when we have ideas of who they are? So now we were wrong about Starbuck. The trail (as laid out by you) is cold. Now is the PERFECT time to lay out the imprints! Sarcasm!

I am conflicted about you. You remain the most suspicious spot on wagon analysis. Your play has been quite townie though. I'm in favour of listing thoughts as they come to me and being honest about my reads. So I don't think your town now nor did I think you were scum yesterday. I'm struggling to determine what your alignment is.

2a) I'm willing to consider the fact that you were just laying out your thoughts one at a time, the first being my voting pattern is scummy (which again, compared to your own is CERTAINLY not more scummy) and that my posting habits are townie. Again, I'm willing to consider that is the truth, (though I can't say I agree with the logic, in fact, I'll say the opposite.)

Were I scum, I'd have known that Starbuck's lynch would bring a metric shit-ton of suspicion on me, not to mention my various pleas to lynch me to prove my towniness.

2b) So, as I said above, thats why you said that if Starbuck flipped town, we should imprint and not lynch. Starbuck flipping town brings lots of heat on you, good thing you suggested we imprint and not lynch in advance!

The problem comes about from the situation. There are 3 scum, they all know Starbuck is town and can daytalk. They are presented with an absolute gift, a townie pushing hard the lynch of another townie.

So the question one must attempt to answer is what they would do with themselves. A lynch of Starbuck (or even myself) would be easy to manufacture and they could essentially choose to be on it or not.

Deathnote's wagon was different, it really spring up. So yes, it's definitely odd to me that you would be on DN's wagon and not on SBs.

This boggles my mind. Does anyone else agree with this? Maybe I'm missing something. If I was scummy sitting out, because I apparently could so easily, that would leave only TWO mafia to set up an 'easy to manufacture' lynch of Starbuck on day two, within 40 hours of the day starting, with 4 out of 8 townies also needing to get on board. Please, really? THAT makes the most sense? Also, how did DNs wagon 'spring up' any faster than Starbucks?
Is everyone who didn't vote for Starbuck suspicious because of that fact in your eyes? Are they REALLY more suspicious that people who actually voted for Starbuck?
Again, how can you really think my voting pattern is suspicious because I joined late on a mafia lynch, and wasn't on a townie lynch, when you were the LAST on a mafia lynch, hammering when we were discussing who should be imprinted, then was FIRST on, and pushed for a lynch on a townie, while saying that we should imprint and not lynch if Starbuck flips town on the wagon you started yourself? There is no way my voting pattern is more suspicious than yours.

Were you not around for much of D2?

Truthfully no, not that much, it happened rather fast. I only got to check in from my phone a few times.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #22=-

Alaska (4) - Colorado, Iowa, Florida, Kansas
Colorado (1) - Ohio

Not Voting (5) - Alaska, Georgia, Hawaii, Montana, Virginia

6 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #22=-

Hawaii (5) - Hawaii, Kansas, Ohio, Florida, Montana
Montana (5) - Virginia, Kansas, Alaska, Iowa, Montana
Florida (2) - Florida, Ohio
Georgia (2) - Virginia, Iowa
Ohio (1) - Ohio
Colorado (1) - Virginia
Iowa (1) - Iowa
Virginia (1) - Iowa
Alaska (0)
Kansas (0)

6 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
COLORADO = Messiah
FLORIDA = Limerickx
GEORGIA = Plum
HAWAII = TheButtonmen
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Vala Mal Doran
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[elvis_knits]

farside, do I really have to respond to your post or can we just agree that you've said what you think and I've said what I think?

I'll just summarize, I guess.

I do realize that you have spent a while trying to convince SC that I'm scum and that I'm using him. But the same arguments you've made against me to say I'm scum you've also used against SC, so I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion. I mean, you've been tearing him down right with me. So it just makes me think that you think he's scum.

You're voting him now, so I guess you think he's scum now. But you're trying to argue with me that you didn't think he was scum before and so I misrepped you. Fine. But that's the feeling I get from your posts, from the continued way you tore him down all game and lumped me and him together and called me scum.

By the way I did find a game that didn't mention the scum all had a NK and but they could kill but it got ignored too.

Well, 1 game on the entire site means it's possible for a scum role PM to forget to mention a NK when the scum actually have one. 1 out of how many games? The odds are still in my favor, don't you think?

Let's talk about WIFOM

Farside, you've had a lot of problems with me and WIFOM. But you make assumptions too when it suits your needs.

bah reading SC post about EK in 215 I get the impression he is just impressed with EK and ignoring things that he shouldn't.

Isn't that an assumption? I'm sure I could find more, but I don't want to waste time. Just picked the nearest quote.

You expect people to trust anyone in mafia? Really???? Even my town read of button I feel off about it when I see do things. Till I feel 100% certain on anyone I don't trust really anyone.

Trust is important in the game of mafia. Not blind trust. Not for no reason. But I think it's important to trust people you think are town. Because even if you are wrong, giving out a little trust is often helpful in finding out if you're wrong. You can always reevaluate later. That's the way I play, anyway. And you may not play that way, but my way is perfectly valid. I saw a town tell on SC, and so I pointed it out. His play since then has only made me more sure.

And then you threw me and SC under the bus:

How is that throwing a person under the bus exactly?

Because you didn't defend why you voted her, you acted like it was all me and SC's fault. You acted like we are ruining the game (causing you to think about being replaced). THIS IS MANIPULATIVE CRAP. I am doing nothing other than playing a game of mafia. If you think I am a huge monster and an intolerable idiot, then complain to the mod and get me replaced. I PMed username days ago and told him that I don't want to ruin the game and that if he's getting complaints that he can replace me. I have heard nothing from him, so I guess my play is okay with him. If people are afraid to say it in thread, PM username to get me replaced. All I'm trying to do is lynch scum. Just because I don't agree with every one of you all the time doesn't mean I'm ruining the game. Just because I will continue to argue for what I think is right, doesn't mean I'm ruining the game.

[elvis_knits]

Okay, I just want to point out that two people (buttonemn, pug) are one vote away from being imprinted and SC is two votes away from being lynched.

I have said repeatedly that it is stupid to imprint and then lynch.

Can we pick one or the other?

If we're doing both, can someone explain why we're not waiting to see the flip to decide who gets imprints?

[elvis_knits]

unimprint

Until we reach a decision on which way we're going with the lynches/imprints.

[Plum]

Imprint: Plum, Elvis

More coming/this subject to change, but new day means new slate means get these back on the table.

I'm still seeing VMD's early Button vote as null, just an indication of frustration.

Honestly, a lot of the reason I want to see people imprinted is because I'm curious to see what kind of roles are available to us. Another is that if I thought this game was meant to be played as a purely vanilla game, the mod just would have made it that way. To play the whole game as a nightless vanilla would just be... underwhelming. And if we only imprint a couple people, I don't see much danger in it.

((DISCLAIMER: Before anyone (I'm particularly looking at you, farside) bitches at me for imprinting five people and calls it hypocritical or something, note that I'd obviously unimprint some people if too many people were getting too close to being imprinted.))

Hold on. We have no idea what level of danger imprinting two people would be in the worst case scenario of both imprintees being scum. We have the option of imprinting, and it's probably generally optimal to imprint if we're pretty sure we're right, but there are conceivable cases, which might include this one (full analysis and whatever coming later in this post), where the risk of imprinting scum is greater than the benefit we might get if we imprint town. Just saying "let's play this game the way it was intended" is one thing if we're talking about not playing the game or any game if we follow the strategy. Deciding not to imprint would not be that - though I'd prefer that we actually decide to imprint or not rather than cut it off before we actually choose.

I see imprint-voting like regular voting: you generally vote someone you want to see hammered. If you're confident enough that five people are town, go ahead (except that your townhunting needs refinement in that case). If not, why vote to imprint sub-optimal people?

FOS

-

I feel like we need to get people imprinted THEN decide on a lynch.

My vote will either go to Starbuck or SC. It's currently 8:3. If we lynch wrong, it'll be 7:3, and that'll put us into lylo tomorrow if scum gets a killing imprint.

If 1 of the 2 (and yes I say only 2 imprints) kills a person they will be lynched. How hard is this to understand?
I swear I said this before and no one is listening.

We don't know how scum imprints work. What if an imprint gives scum a day-killl? What if - I'm too tired to think of more examples. Point stands. Giving scum imprints might not lead to regular kills and it might; in either case, something bad will happen, something which we cannot be sure we'll be able to accurately trace to the source.

I dislike Messiah trying to push the SC-lynch idea put forth by SC. Maybe SC is really gambity scum but he reads more like town trying to spin deals for the good of the town (I dislike it and don't think it's working but I find it unlikely to be actually scummy). Fact is that going along with it/saying how helpful it would be if we went through with it feels much worse than just sticking to whatever case you feel you have against SC.

-

Well, you could have 2 scum players who then build up an excessive amount of powers, including the ability to kill. You'd be risking two full lynches.

It just doesn't make sense to me to do that when we have a lot of info and a scum flip. It's game on. Let's imprint if we run into trouble.

Now it just sounds like you would rather keep the town uninformed.
Tell me with the 2 people who have the most votes to get imprinted what about them makes you think they are scum?

Holy strawman Batman! SC makes decent points about the theory of imprints. You spin it as him trying to keep town uninformed when frankly I see at most a theory disagreement; he seems to think that the risk is greater than the reward of info.

Elvis' [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#2018703[/url] is pretty sweet.

- Messiah switches from attacking SC to going after Starbuck. Checking iso for context, I also note that he doesn't unvote SC and vote her until the next day. EDIT: Oh wait, he was in position to hammer; that makes more sense. Still, though, his hammer post feels weak; this may be gut spasm or gut smart. I'll hold onto my hat. Yeah, Twilight Starbuck makes a post to that point. In fact, hold on - yes, when SC first brought up the point Messiah argued, against it.

Vote: Messiah

until further notice.

- Farside's point about VMD using meta to defend/not attack DN is significant.

- Re: Starbuck's concerns, because I may as well address them: For the record, I never saw strong indications that Starbuck was really defending DN excessively and I said so; my case against her, from Day 1, was that EK clarified some of her positions and Starbuck turned around and misrepped her on those points mere posts afterwards. It was certainly not a strong enough connection for me to really put much stock in it wither way Day 1 and my original case on Starbuck made her the scummiest Day 2 anyway. The interactions with DN certainly didn't make her look

better

, either. Also I was more annoyed at the suddenness of the Day end than suspicious of SC. I didn't think it was significantly scummy. I stated explicitly in that post that SC was not among my top scum picks and that I didn't want him lynched even though he did. I did not attack him as likely scum.

- Buttonman, I know I've been busy and often playing catchup and I don't like it much either. I try to avoid posting mere summaries and I think I succeed. Playing catchup means I might have to scumhunt in a slightly different way sometimes, but I do do work and I don't just arrot or summarize.

Though I'm being kicked off the computer now, and only have this, so I fear I;m not as useful as I wish I were. Things will change;; I won;t be getting home late for a while, unlike the last week and a half.

[farside22]

Mod: If 2 mafia get imprinted do they both get a NK or does only one get to perform a NK?

Once I get an answer to this I will say what I feel on imprints a bit more.
Right now I'm thinking you're trying to stop a scum from being lynched with the lets just imprint and no lynch right now.

Trust is important in the game of mafia. Not blind trust. Not for no reason. But I think it's important to trust people you think are town. Because even if you are wrong, giving out a little trust is often helpful in finding out if you're wrong. You can always reevaluate later. That's the way I play, anyway. And you may not play that way, but my way is perfectly valid. I saw a town tell on SC, and so I pointed it out. His play since then has only made me more sure.

His play? Which play is that the one where he pushes for a SB lynch from the start saying she is defending DN and if SB comes up scum then DN is scum.
Now in retrospect if SB had been lynched his whole ploy looks almost like he was helping DN by a mislynch. Are you going to say you didn't see him push the starbuck case more at the start of day 1 over DN now?
What about your play? Lets see 2 mispre's you just had to back track and never quote. You trying to clear yourself and SC based on WIFOM.
I"m sure not trying to get people to imprint me as much as you and SC do. I would rather they feel I was townie they keep pushing it down their throats that something that is assumption makes me town.
The only good thing I saw was your comment to DN after that it's not much else but follow me and look at this list where I put farside at the bottom but lew said even less about DN.

farside wrote:
bah reading SC post about EK in 215 I get the impression he is just impressed with EK and ignoring things that he shouldn't.


Isn't that an assumption? I'm sure I could find more, but I don't want to waste time. Just picked the nearest quote.

Here is the difference between my comment and yours. I said I get an impression. You state your assumptions as fact.

[SerialClergyman]

Much to reply to but I lose the motivation every time I start a post. Farside, your point aobut the difference = stating as fact rather than assumption is a bad one. Either way you're using WIFOMic reasoning, and either way you're making an action based on incomplete information. But that's the point of the game. Stating it as fact is a measure of how strongly you feel about the result, not one that changes how you came to that conclusion. It's WIFOM either way but it's a useful tool.

Add to that my posts are littered with things like 'likely', 'almost certainly' and 'probably' to get around this argument and yet it never seems to matter.

@Limerick - I think we've reached the point of diminished returns in this argument. If you disagree and would like me to post in more detail, let me know.

As it is, I think we have one counterbalanced point - my pushing of Starbuck. Either I didn't push her very hard and therefore my push to imprint rather than lynch is not scummy, or I did push her very hard and you'd have to recognise that that's semi-suicidal as scum.

If you really do feel that strongly about the imprint point, you can look at my reasoning throughout the start of D2 that always stated as long as we had good reasoning to go on and a good idea of who scum is, we shouldn't imprint. As it is, we no longer do since the Starbuck lynch was on town and thus I turn my view back to imprinting. I think you can see that that's a logical progression.

And finally, even if you didn't agree with any of that, how does changing to a no-lynch imprint help me out if I'm scum? There's still a lynch required tomorrow, it's not likely to lead to a mislynch. I personally will not get an imprint any time soon. So why does it benefit me to see power roles assigned?

@SC: Why did you wait until the end of the wagon to hammer DN?

Vote: SerialClergyman

His ploy was that if he was town, then so was elvis... and if DeathNote was scum, so was Starbuck. IMO, it was a bus. He knew DeathNote would flip scum, therefore incriminating Starbuck and seemingly clearing both himself and elvis.

Yeah, the site is super-fucked right now. Also, unvote.

I want to figure out the imprinting thing first.

Vote: Starbuck

On second thought, lynching Starbuck is a better plan. Passively defending someone who flips scum is a no-no.

These are RECK's contributions to D2. I don't like them at all. This goes with the earlier posting on D1, some highlights of which are:

SC calling elvis town? What the hell has she done that really warrants a town read, especially this early on? I agree with the Deathnote scum read, but I'm not sure I'd so willingly place Starbuck into scum territory. Hmph.

In fact, by the end of page eight, I'd be willing to upgrade Starbuck to leaning-town.

Messiah's 236 is a strong post: SC says Starbuck is "obsessed with" and "defending" DN, but someone could just as easily say that he is doing the same with elvis (and vice versa). If it's a scumtell for Starbuck, then it's a scumtell for either elvis or SC. Just because you openly defend someone you read as town (which, way to give NO reasoning behind your unbelievably strong town-read on elvis, SC) doesn't mean that it's more acceptable just because someone thinks the attacks on another null-read are bullshit.

And... ugh, my predecessor failed. Holy shit, bad play, bad posts, apathy. I just remembered... he said nothing of any interest on pages 1-5. I've noticed that Starbuck gets a lot of scum attention in practically every single game I play with her... and the one game I actively remember he being scum in, I think I saw it coming. Therefore, I'm not willing to accept the Starbuck hate simply because I've seen it happen too many times before. I honestly don't see anything scummy about what she's done so far.

Ignoring all further posts by lewarcher. Plum's epic post on page twelve made me fall in love with her. Not enough to remove my imprint on VMD, but definitely make me question it.

DeathNote seems to be just rolling over and giving up right now. I don't get it, nor do I understand it. I think it's a null-tell at this point. Probably just tired of defending himself. I think he's an appropriate D1 lynch.

On D1 he said that I was scum with DeathNote and that Starbuck was neutral leaning town. I don't get where the Starbuck vote came from.

[Limerickx]

SC: Fair enough RE: Diminishing returns. I think we both made our points.

I've also recently become more suspicious of Messiah as well. I used to think he was town, but the arguments that he is more reactive in agreeing, and his voting pattern as well has aroused my suspicion a bit.

[farside22]

Much to reply to but I lose the motivation every time I start a post. Farside, your point aobut the difference = stating as fact rather than assumption is a bad one.

Why is it bad? You and EK have been shoving the whole scum would read their role there fore we are town BS at the start and the whole if DN flip is scum we are town BS as fact. So tell me how your point is more valid?

And finally, even if you didn't agree with any of that, how does changing to a no-lynch imprint help me out if I'm scum? There's still a lynch required tomorrow, it's not likely to lead to a mislynch. I personally will not get an imprint any time soon. So why does it benefit me to see power roles assigned?

Why was this never thought of when starbuck was being lynched? Why did this thought never come out especially when I stated the 8 vs 3 in town favor.

Holy strawman Batman! SC makes decent points about the theory of imprints. You spin it as him trying to keep town uninformed when frankly I see at most a theory disagreement; he seems to think that the risk is greater than the reward of info.

Excuse me but this is the same person who wants to imprint now and didn't seem to want to do it after DN's lynch so I'm going to ask question about his lets lynch and not imprint vs lets no lynch and imprint flip flop.
We do not know what the imprints are. Everyone seems to be hoping for a cop. Damn even I hope for a cop but there is other roles out there to wonder about and what if they don't help? Then what? I also asked when and how many lynches and frankly he was willing to lynch himself and not have an imprint day 2 and now day 3 he wants and imprint is shifty as all hell.

[SerialClergyman]

Why was this never thought of when starbuck was being lynched? Why did this thought never come out especially when I stated the 8 vs 3 in town favor.

Because there was no reason to risk it when we had an excellent read on scum. Of course - with hindsight the read was less than excellent, but so it goes. Are you pretty sure you've found scum? Good! Lynch them. Are you not that sure? Good! Imprint. That has been my argument all through D2 and D3.

Why is it bad? You and SC have been shoving the whole scum would read their role there fore we are town BS at the start and the whole if DN flip is scum we are town BS as fact. So tell me how your point is more valid?

Regardless of the fact that we don't know whether either of those two conclusions are truthful or not, it's not the point I was making. The point i was making is that no one is claiming you can be 100% sure of anything using reasoning with WIFOM in it, but we are claiming that you can use it to help guide your decisions. We've used it to guide the opinion of each other that we're town. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure.

But you know all this because you use WIFOM to make assumptions too. What elvis quoted was an example of you using WIFOMic argument to come to a conclusion, and that's the key issue - you do it, I do it, elvis does it and there's nothing wrong with that.

[SerialClergyman]

I was looking back at the end of D2 and found this from Sarbuck:

And just where were his votes placed?

Day 1

Lynch
DeathNote, Post 82 - This is the post that he parrots Pug
SC, Post 214 - "for the ridiculous way he's overreacted towards starbuck and the above scummy line of questioning."
DeathNote, Post 383 - For reasons in previous posts and the "just policy lynch me and get it over with" thing

Imprint
Messiah, VMD and Buttonmen



Day 2

Lynch
SC, Post 480 - No reason
Starbuck, Post 615 - Her "I don't see where I defended him" defense isn't very persuasive.

Normally I would give town points to Messiah for haivng the guts to hammer SB. (This goes back to the scum knowing she was town - why would he put himself under that kind of pressure?)

But his voting record is surprisingly similar to RECK's - the same 'vote SC then switch to SC's suspicion at the end of the day' stylings.

It's certainly unusual to go with the case one of your scum suspects is pushing, and for both players to do it both days is odd and worth noting, I think.

[farside22]

Because there was no reason to risk it when we had an excellent read on scum. Of course - with hindsight the read was less than excellent, but so it goes. Are you pretty sure you've found scum? Good! Lynch them. Are you not that sure? Good! Imprint. That has been my argument all through D2 and D3.

I still have not heard a single reason why no lynch with no imprint is better. Whenever we lynch we as town should take advantage of getting info at night with an imprint.
Yesterday you were saying lynch me don't imprint then lynch starbuck.
You're drive to not imprint can cost the town too. Now it's lets no lynch and imprint which I said yesterday what was the harm of a imprint yesterday.
The only thing I heard was it could change our view on who we imprint.
We guess what I still want to imprint Pug and Button. The only people I changed my view on is Reck and Plum and that was after the day 1 lynch.

So I ask one last time what was the harm yesterday to do an imprint before we lynched?

[SerialClergyman]

Because there's literally no down side.

Imprint + lynch means that we can't use the information of the flip for our imprints today.

There is zero reason then to imprint and lynch over imprint and no lynch, then lynch the next day or lynch then imprint. If you do them both in the one day, you're unable to use one to help the other. If you do them seperately, you CAN use the lynch to influence the imprint and vice versa.

The harm yesterday was the chance of getting it wrong. There was no point taking that chance when we had a good lead on scum. Today it's much more up in the air, thus it's better to imprint to try to find some solid direction.

Yesterday you were saying lynch me don't imprint then lynch starbuck.

This is true. Did you believe I was serious when I made that suggestion?

Now, in regards to your voting me, were you always going to vote me on a SB townflip? Am I the most likely in your eyes to flip scum or just the suspect with the biggest wagon? Do you still think elvis and VMD are scum?

[elvis_knits]

When she replaced in, D1 and DN was on the block:

I think have 2 people imprinted or 3 imprinted with a no lynch is best too.

It's interesting that this was her first take on the game, on a day that would have saved scum from a lynch. What changed to make her think we should be lynching and imprinting on the same day?

Next, she spends a lot of time saying that if DN flips scum it doesn't clear me or SC. While avoiding commenting on DN.

I need to read back on DN. For me no matter what DN's role is it doesnt' clear you.

I need a moment for looking back at DN all the buddying between EK and SC really needs to end.

So then the DN lynch is getting moving, and farside wants to make sure we get imprints in there before the flip:

Can we make sure to get imprint out of the way too people.

I see no harm in imprinting 2 players for informational purposes at this point.

NOTE: she never really comments on DN. She spends all her time arguing with me and SC. Why would anyone fail to comment on the person we were lynching?

---

D2 is much of the same from farside, attacking me and SC, attacking VMD.

Then she votes Starbuck OUT OF NOWHERE. This is one of my biggest problems with farside.

She hardly mentions Starbuck all game, and then switches to voting Starbuck, with hardly any explanation. (ISO 34). Starbuck is me and SC's prime suspect, and if she's spent all game arguing with us and how wrong and scummy we are, and then she turns around and votes Starbuck. It doesn't make sense.

Commiserates with Starbuck with how awful me and SC are in ISO 45. Totally acting like she didn't vote starbuck also and contribute to the lynch.

---

D3 more fighting with me (and SC). Says that I continually ignore and misrep people. One of her big points seems to be that she wasn't calling me AND SC scum, but that she was calling me scum and SC was just a pawn in my dastardly scheme. In the middle of this, she switches her vote to SC. (huh?)

---

Okay, so my main points against farside are:
1)Failure to comment on DN's scumminess when the wagon was building. Did not vote DN.
2)Tried to say we should not lynch D1 and imprint instead (would have saved DN from lynch).
3)Spends all her time attacking me and SC, then changes her vote to our number one suspect, Starbuck, with almost no explanation.
4)Throws a fit and says I misrepped her, that she never called both me and SC scummy, but that she thinks I am scum and SC is my town stooge. Then she changes her vote to SC.

vote farside

[SerialClergyman]

<--- keeps his word.



I'm waiting to hear farside's answers to my questions at the bottom of my above post.

[elvis_knits]

lol

<3

SC, who are your scum picks at this point?

[xRECKONERx]

The blatant buddying is making me nauseous.

[Limerickx]

As a note E_K, imprinting and not lynching night one wouldn't have necessarily saved DN, im fairly sure he wouldve been lynched the next day anyways, which you don't seem to account for.

[farside22]

Now, in regards to your voting me, were you always going to vote me on a SB townflip? Am I the most likely in your eyes to flip scum or just the suspect with the biggest wagon? Do you still think elvis and VMD are scum?

You were pushing on starbuck more during the day then DN and even went so far as to say this:

3) Why is DN scum?

Because in this theory of the game, Starbuck is defending a buddy. I totally admit my case is absolutely dependent on Starbuck being scum. But mafia is about finding the informed minority, and I'm telling you that is part of it.

That in retrospect of SB flip makes you look scummy.

Still think EK is scummy not sure on VMD right now. I still have mixed views on her play.

When she replaced in, D1 and DN was on the block:
farside wrote:
I think have 2 people imprinted or 3 imprinted with a no lynch is best too.

It's interesting that this was her first take on the game, on a day that would have saved scum from a lynch. What changed to make her think we should be lynching and imprinting on the same day?

read my words more carefully because it was 2 imprinted with a lynch or 3 imprinted with a no lynch that was discussed.
Which I was more clear here:

Yeah I'm leaning on lynch today and imprinting 2 players for information purposes right now.

And yes I agrue with you and SC becuase I find you scum EK. I already stated my reason's and again you seem to ignored that day 2 if I wanted to lynch SC it would have been incredibly easy to do so with him asking people to vote for him.

Honestly I wanted to know about imprints before a hammer on DN and I still think even reading SC's comment that not imprinting with a lynch makes no sense.
We could have had a cop day 1 with an imprint and someone could have checked SB. No one thinks about this and that is what I do not get.
Going over EK's points
1. As for this one there was lots to still talk about. You and SC are the most vocal and I was not expecting a hammer without everyone talking aobut how they felt on imprints.
Oh look who takes that out of everyone's hand SC!
2. is false
3. you're number 1 suspect was DN for most of the day SC Number 1 was starbuck. I notice you seem to not notice this
4. You did misrep. How is that scummy to call you out for misrep?

[SerialClergyman]

I gotta go to work in a sec, I'll try to post at some point but before I do...

The blatant buddying is making me nauseous.

Why do you have that reaction? Is it game-related or on a personal level? What is the problem that you are seeing?

[farside22]

Also I would like to point something out that SC is using the terms least likely when I talk about scum bussing.
However just on this page with games done and over I have 3 cases in slight scum bussing day 1 and yest on page 1

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11#1864811



http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12460



http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12404

locke first vote is on jebus (her scum partner and kono (lynched day 1 votes on Jebus)

The point is scum do it and to say it hardly happens is a falacy. I even found a game in which scum did RVS on page 1 to their scum partner. I mean seriously it happens. It's not a hardly happens it is it will happen more times then not.

[elvis_knits]

Hey farside, your examples are not what you represent them to be.

Also I would like to point something out that SC is using the terms least likely when I talk about scum bussing.
However just on this page with games done and over I have 3 cases in slight scum bussing day 1 and yest on page 1

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11#1864811



http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12460

Both of these games are scum random voting each other on D1. That's not a bus. It doesn't count.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12404

locke first vote is on jebus (her scum partner and kono (lynched day 1 votes on Jebus)

This vote was on page 9. This doesn't count either as a page 1 buss, or a early D1 buss.

[elvis_knits]

The blatant buddying is making me nauseous.

Do you feel left out?

:huggle:

[xRECKONERx]

Three-way buddying?

/in

Farside is digging herself a hole.