Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[SerialClergyman]

IF Starbuck THEN Vala.

Starbuck first.

Speaking of which,

vote Starbuck

[SerialClergyman]

While I appreciate the sentiment, I think a good deal of my suspicion of Vala comes from her attempted linking of lewarcher to Starbuck over DN to Starbuck. It's important to know SB's alignment, I think.

Why aren't you voting me?

[farside22]

While I appreciate the sentiment, I think a good deal of my suspicion of Vala comes from her attempted linking of lewarcher to Starbuck over DN to Starbuck. It's important to know SB's alignment, I think.

Why aren't you voting me?

I'm starting to think misguided person and stubborn.
You don't want to listen to anyone which is really annoying. Again I'm going with the you being blinded by EK too much on this to think anything bad.
I'm saying VMD first. There is a lot of reason's to look to her and post arguments on who she is scum with.
Again her whole reaction to Thebuttonman's theories was a complete scum tell. I feel better with that thought in my head.

[Pug89]

Pug who do you want to see with an imprint and why?

I was actually about to get to that when SC quick lynched.

TheButtonmen: His plan at the beginning of the game was game breaking but it was definitely protown and the rest of the game I have gotten a protown read on him.

Plum: She hasn't posted often but what she does post is well thought out and reasonable. Also, she was on DN's wagon relatively early on, although that is not the strongest town tell given how blatently scummy DN was from the beginning.

Imprint:TheButtonmen
Imprint:Plum
Imprint:Pug89

[SerialClergyman]

Stubborn perhaps, misguided no.

It's worse when we're in a 1/3 of the group is scum situation, so I know if people disagree with me unanimously i'm probably on the right track

EK certianly has not blinded me. There are two people who would do that to me on MS and that's because of personal relationships i have with them. I like EK but not in a way that I'd flinch if I thought she was scum.

Also - in the last game we had she spent most of it calling me scum and I spent a good deal of it calling her scum as well, so it's not like we're incapable of the thought.

[SerialClergyman]

Definitely a bad idea to imprint buttonman. Any person who actually came up with a game breaking suggestion owuld obviously have the rules modified, so although it's a town tell too many people are taking it on face value.

Which reminds me - the times I did it for farside:

All quotes are mine.

Meh, I PM'd iam about this thinking it might be boringly breaking the game, but if you vote nl and imprint one person say 100 times, till they hve a cop result on everyone, then you lynch them. If they are scum, rinse and repeat with a different townie, if they are town follow the cop.

I think that breaks it, theoretically even with naive/paranoid cops if you did it enough.

But yeah, it would be boring as batshit.

Buttonman said this was essentially the same plan being talked about but I replied:

You didn't have the step where you lynched the person with the power. And I PM'd the mod a while ago about it. And I don't think you have considered naive or paranoid results.

And then when Iam had a fleeting and poorly-considered role change, I pointed out a new break the game scenario with the new system here:

If you wanted to be sneaky with the new rule, we could neveri mprint someone, scum hunt as normal, and if we ever looked in trouble just vote No Lynch 3 timesi na a row to get out of it with a draw.

0% chance of loss Very Happy

[SerialClergyman]

I was actually about to get to that when SC quick lynched.

This is exactly why I quick lynched. Imprints were only going to go to at least one of the scum. We don't need them, old fashoined scumhunting was fine for that lynch and for the next 1 or 2 lynches at least.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #14=-

Alaska (3) - Hawaii, Colorado, Ohio
Ohio (1) - Kansas
Arizona (1) - Alaska

Not Voting (6) - Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Montana, Virginia

6 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #14=-

Hawaii (3) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana
Montana (3) - Kansas, Ohio, Montana
Colorado (1) - Ohio
Florida (1) - Ohio
Ohio (1) - Ohio
Georgia (1) - Montana
Alaska (0)
Arizona (0)
Iowa (0)
Kansas (0)
Virginia (0)

6 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
ARIZONA = Starbuck
COLORADO = Messiah
FLORIDA = Limerickx
GEORGIA = Plum
HAWAII = TheButtonmen
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Vala Mal Doran
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[TheButtonmen]

It would appear Imprints were reset.

Imprint: TheButtonmen

[Limerickx]

Imprint: The Buttonmen
Imprint: Limerickx

Not happy about the hammer without even a single imprint at all I'd like to say.[/b]

[SerialClergyman]

5 imprints on someone not voting deathnote. Bad times.

Starbuck was imprinting vdm and none of the other top three. More and more likely they are scum together.

I know there are at least two and probably more townies on that imprint wagon. What's so wrong with lynching me or starbuck first? Why do you need to rely on hoping button is town and he gets a useful print when there is more than enough info for more lynches, if not an outright win?

[xRECKONERx]

Imprint: Reckoner
Imprint: Messiah

I want to seriously lynch SC.

[SerialClergyman]

Then vote me.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Ok, I'm back from my nap. x_x

My case on VMD is more about her flip flop. She keeps bringing up that she finds people scummy who vote for themselves then does it.
She called Thebuttonman scummy for his meta breaking town win scanario and the reason I feel EK with VMD is that EK almost does this coach thing with her which I find off putting and yet doesn't call her scummy.

Plus the whole I think player X is town based on my read is oh so vague.

unvote:
vote: VMD

...Really?

Really?

I

never

called Button scummy; in fact I've thought he was fairly town most of this time but was annoyed by his trying to break the game enough to vote him for being anti-the-game-in-general till he stopped. I've explained this several times over already, and I'm really not sure why you're not getting it.

I wanted to play the goddamn game

, not NL over and over. Why is that so hard to get?

And I've already said my piece about this so-called "flip-flopping", too. I didn't want people to vote themselves, but people voted themselves anyway, so I said frak it, I'll vote myself too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Again, why is this so hard to understand? You seem to be trying entirely too hard here.

@SC: I realize this doesn't fit into your perfect little view of the game, but if Starbuck flips town, what does that make you think of me? I'd really like to know.

It's worse when we're in a 1/3 of the group is scum situation, so I know if people disagree with me unanimously i'm probably on the right track

What? This doesn't even make sense considering the remaining 2/3 is town.

[farside22]

Ah yes you voted him for killing the game.

And you stated the following:

No, it's not. But I am placing a vote on you for trying to ruin the spirit of the game. That, and arguing over the mechanics is boring, and I am more than willing to place a dubious vote or two in order to start some actual scumhunting.

Which doesn't sound town at all as people should try and discuss this set up and what best served town.
Voting on someone who is "killing the game" is still scummy
Also this:

Okay, first of all,

unvote

. It's clearly served as much of its purpose as it is going to.

You make yourself sound very dangerous to town when its in a game with a very very small margin of error. Also does this mean you will lurk / leave the game the moment you stop having fun?

That was not my intention. However, try to see it my way: IMO, intentionally breaking the game is, essentially, cheating. Never mind that the mod shouldn't have left the game breakable in the first place, it's just something that I cannot do in good conscience. I want to win, but I want to win fairly, and yes, I WILL leave the game if we are not playing fairly. Scum deserves the chance to win, the mod deserves the chance to see the game play out the way they intended for it to, and town deserves the chance to kick scum's asses fair and square... WITHOUT having to resort to cheating.

This reads let me cover all my base's.

And I've already said my piece about this so-called "flip-flopping", too. I didn't want people to vote themselves, but people voted themselves anyway, so I said frak it, I'll vote myself too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Again, why is this so hard to understand? You seem to be trying entirely too hard here.

Calling people out on it and saying it's scummy then saying when in rome do as the roman's is just wishy washy and yes it's backtracking.
I haven't self imprinted. You know why? I don't see it as a point right now. I know my role and I want to look for scum the best way I can right now and not worry about just me, myself and I.

[TheButtonmen]

Self Imprinting is a null tell;

A townie knows only one confirmed town, themselves thus they vote to imprint themselves.
A scum wants a power role, thus they imprint themselves.

[Limerickx]

I haven't self imprinted. You know why? I don't see it as a point right now. I know my role and I want to look for scum the best way I can right now and not worry about just me, myself and I.

As an aside, I still don't see this as a 'me myself and I' type thing. It is in your benefit that whoever if imprinted is on your side. Regardless of anyone else, you know YOUR role. If you're town, you want a town to be imprinted. you KNOW you're a town. If you're scum, you want scum to get an imprint.
Truthfully, I think NOT voting to give yourself an imprint is more scummy that voting to give yourself an imprint, if anything. I don't read into it at all, really, but if I had to pick one over the other, its not as big a deal to mafia which mafia get the imprint, as long as ONE of them do. The only way for a townie (at this point) to be 100% sure a townie gets an imprint is to imprint themselves.[/quote]

[Plum]

So of the people who found and started pushing the wagon that we all now think is scummy and have all jumped on, NONE of them are imprinting ANY of the 3 major imprint candidates.

That might have to do with the fact that I've not yet gotten around to voting to imprint anyone but myself. To answer the question, I'd be happy looking at two or three imprints. If we're at three besides me whom I'm confident enough in I'd be happy to throw myself on as the fourth. Otherwise I probably wouldn't be comfortable with three. I'm a bit iffy on VMD and she's not someone I'd really rather get an imprint. EK has seemed very Town and with the extra credit of the apparent lack of knowledge of the scum NK situation she's probably my best bet for likely Town.

Imprint: elvis_knits

I didn't love your attack on Starbuck, SC, so I'm thinking about you and want to look again at Buttonmen, because the more I think about it the likelier a towntell the attempt to break the game seems.

SC WTH.

Okay score one for DN flipping scum (and all those people who complain that anti-town people can't be read, hmph, yet another example that it can) but cutting the day off so fast was less than utterly cool. And confusing, though a bit less so in context with your offers to make a deal regarding lynching you/DN earlier Day 1.

Imprint: Plum, Elvis

IF Starbuck THEN Vala.

If Starbuck flips scum?

Anyway, it

is

too much like a 7-for-7 defense of your positions. Frankly, I'm just not quite as confident as you are in your assumption strings.

Starbuck

was

my next scummiest suspect for similar counts to DN's but not SC's case (though DN flipping scum makes her look no better, to say the least).

Vote: Starbuck

SC, though I feel iffier about you you're not my top suspect and I do not want you dead. I'd rather try to lynch someone I find actually scummy kthx. And I need to reread Farside to see if all her stuff is really lining up and I need to just double-check that the Town vibes I'm having with Buttonmen are good; if so, imprint-vote time for him

I had some reservations about Messiah earlier and he seems to have lost a few imprint votes before the hammer (yes?). And I don't have any tiiiiiiiiime.

Mod, everyone: Put me down as V/LA until Saturday night. I'm really sorry about this week, but grargh. I may be able to post Friday, but tomorrow night I probably getting home in am hours and Saturday is never a posting time for me. Apologies again.

[SerialClergyman]

It was totally tterly cool.

The fact that you hadn't imprinted anyone was irrelevent, it was yet another likely townie who was NOT imprinting the three top imprinters.

Imprinting buttonman continues to be a bad idea. If he is town for game breaking so am I, and I actually voted scum yesterday. But in reality, imprint neither of us, it is an unnecessary risk.

It's not a 7 for 7 argument because that's not why i'm asking you to follow me, it's why my playstyle allows me to buddy as strongly to Elvis as I have or declare starbuck and dn scum after one content post.

The reason you should agree with me is all laid out, a solid case on starbucks subtle defence of a now confirmed scum. Every reason to vote her dead for that.

[farside22]

I haven't self imprinted. You know why? I don't see it as a point right now. I know my role and I want to look for scum the best way I can right now and not worry about just me, myself and I.

As an aside, I still don't see this as a 'me myself and I' type thing. It is in your benefit that whoever if imprinted is on your side. Regardless of anyone else, you know YOUR role. If you're town, you want a town to be imprinted. you KNOW you're a town. If you're scum, you want scum to get an imprint.
Truthfully, I think NOT voting to give yourself an imprint is more scummy that voting to give yourself an imprint, if anything. I don't read into it at all, really, but if I had to pick one over the other, its not as big a deal to mafia which mafia get the imprint, as long as ONE of them do. The only way for a townie (at this point) to be 100% sure a townie gets an imprint is to imprint themselves.

[/quote]

Meh I know the whole town thing I said this myself earlier in my larger post but for me it's I would rather scum hunt then worry about getting an imprint.

[TheButtonmen]

Huh;

FoS: Plum

, I'll just throw this out there, post to follow when I have a chance.

[xRECKONERx]

I feel like we need to get people imprinted THEN decide on a lynch.

My vote will either go to Starbuck or SC. It's currently 8:3. If we lynch wrong, it'll be 7:3, and that'll put us into lylo tomorrow if scum gets a killing imprint.

[SerialClergyman]

Or we could not imprint and lynch 3 times.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Ah yes you voted him for killing the game.

Yes. Yes I did. And I would do it again. My vote had everything to do with wanting to play the game the way it was intended to be played. If you're getting anything else from that, you're just being paranoid. And while there's nothing particularly wrong with paranoia (as established earlier I'm rather paranoid myself), when you're on the receiving end it is rather irksome.

Calling people out on it and saying it's scummy then saying when in rome do as the roman's is just wishy washy and yes it's backtracking.
I haven't self imprinted. You know why? I don't see it as a point right now. I know my role and I want to look for scum the best way I can right now and not worry about just me, myself and I.

Well, I'm sorry you read it that way, and I'm glad you're so "selfless", but I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you. I know I'm town and by god, if other people are going to vote for themselves and not be swayed by my argument against voting oneself, like hell I'm missing out on the opportunity to vote for myself, too.

Are these your only reasons for thinking I'm scum? Because they're pretty bad ones, and I'd really prefer not to spend my time arguing against paranoia and actually scumhunt.

(side note: Is it just me, or is the site failing hardcore right now?)

[SerialClergyman]

If by 3, I meant 5.

8 townies now. There are 3 scum. So if we never imprint, we could have 5 lynches before we're even, whereupon I'm not sure what happens.

Given I'm pretty sure of the towniness of 4 players, I'm so into that plan.

Things that make me uneasy: VDM asking what happens if Starbuck is town.
XRECX continuing to find me amongst the most likely to be scum in the game but nonetheless voting my scum targets (first DN, now possibly SB).