Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[SocioPath]

/confirm

[SocioPath]

Vote: AlmasterGM

Terrible choice of policy, given the player list.

[SocioPath]

So, scums out there, I have this wonderful ability that turns scum into town. So, who's scum? Let me help you. It's totally free.

I think Snow Bunny just claimed Cult Recruiter.

Unvote
Vote: Snow_Bunny

Lyman's coddling of Vaya is off putting. Extreme early sheltering.

[SocioPath]

A note to iec - typically, third party roles investigate as innocent to cops. I know this.

Ya, but given that you have claimed Miller and have 3rd party-ish flavor, it's impossible that you are checks-innocent-3rd. Or at least rather unlikely.

Might I remind you this is a bastard game. NOTHING is impossible, and I

can't

won't say anymore about that right now.


Okay, yes, it WAS a random vote; none of the "reasons" I gave are real reasons. Back off, guys, it's just a game..... okay?

unvote

Unvote
Vote: Josh Lyman

Random vote.

[SocioPath]

@SP: A cult recruiter that can only recruit mafia? That's something I'm yet to see. And, if that were the case, why would you vote for someone who is against the same people town is against?

I think you are confusing me with UK.

I think Snow Bunny just claimed Cult Recruiter.

Cult Recruiter != town.

Even if there was a Cult Recruiter that could only recruit scum, they still wouldn't be for town.

It'd be like Mafia B taking people from Mafia A and making the B group bigger. That only hurts the remaining Mafia A group. Doesn't help the town any.

[SocioPath]

Snow_Bunny, please just go ahead and full-claim.

What an excellent way to start the game with their first line in their first post.

Unvote
Vote: Vaya

[SocioPath]

SP, why are you singling-out Vaya for that? Several other players have already said the same thing.

Because of what I said in my post.
Vaya's first line in his first post.
Strange that you felt the need to ignore the intent and try and call attention to others not Vaya.
I smell defensive buddyment.

Unvote
Vote: Iecerint

[SocioPath]

I asked you because I didn't (and don't) understand what differentiates Vaya wanting SB to claim from Glock or UK wanting him to claim.

You don't understand the differences?
Please quote Vaya's previous opinions on subject matters at hand before he asked SB to claim.

[SocioPath]

There weren't any previous posts. What's your point?

I think I've made my point clear. With a vote.

We have already established that that is null.

We have?

Is there something I've forgotten about that he failed to address?

Perhaps an actual opinion on SB?

[SocioPath]

We have already established that that is null.

We have?

As I mentioned before, I hadn't been posting anywhere on site the past few days up until yesterday. A quick glance at my posting history would show this. It doesn't have anything to do with this game or my alignment here, you can't honestly use that alone as a point for me being scum here.

There is a flow of logic failure here.

There is nothing null with starting a game with your first line asking a person whom you think is town, to full claim.

[SocioPath]

I think SP is being too reactionary though.

An odd stance, I would have thought that you of all people would appreciated behavior of the reactionary sort.

And plus, I want to see where this Socio thing goes ^-^.

Me too!

I'm loving the wagon on me so far. I think your vote was awesome in that the reactions it caused. Mainly 2 'other' people to immediately vote me. Which are both awesome for their own reasons:

The Vaya vote:

SP has the right of the situation because Vaya's obv scum No, I will not elaborate more on that matter.

Is this due to official information or just a desire to protect certain scumtells you feel are true? Or is even that asking too much?

Official information.

Okay, I want you to elaborate on that, SSK. You're claiming to have role-related reasons to believe I'm scum?

Yes.

Alright, as far as I'm concerned, you're either drawing the wrong conclusions from the info you have, or are lying. Please share with us exactly what it is you know so I can figure out which it is.

1. This is exactly what scum would do.
2.I do not want to be night killed for the reason for this info.

You have mostly persuaded me. One last question that you may deign not to answer without me worrying. If you were to place a percentage confidence in your results, what would you put it as?

99%.

For the time being,

Unvote, Vote Vaya

Just be aware if Vaya is lynched today and flips town, there's only a 1% chance I'm not going after you ^-^

I still think its a good idea for SSK to fully claim this result he has against me. Kitten, do you have actual reason here to say that SSK shouldn't claim, despite the fact that he would be an obvious kill target regardless?

Unvote
Vote: SocioPath

That is a lovely chain of events. Also reinforced with Iec voting SSK for claiming Vaya as scum.

The Iec vote:

I disqualified myself from starting an SP wagon back then because he was already voting me.

Clearly not voting for people he thinks to be the scummiest in his eyes.
More interested in actual wagons than just votes for who he thinks is scum.
Basically saying 'oh I didn't vote then, because it would look like OMGUS, but now that you voted for him, its not OMGUS, but a wagon.

The coaching between Iec and Vaya has been thick as well.


At this point, I'm half expecting to be daykilled, and then Iec and Vaya forgotten about and watch them live to endgame.
Which I'd blame UK for, for not being reactionary enough.

[SocioPath]

Also reinforced with Iec voting SSK for claiming Vaya as scum.

I voted SSK for claiming I had a "meta" of protecting my scumbuddies. I have never been scum, so there was no basis for SSK's claim. It looked to me like he was just supplying the easy answer to UK's yes/no question. I think it's possible that he did misremember my alignment in ILY mafia, though, for reasons I've already mentioned.

So you are claiming that your vote was based on you thinking SSK was scummy for misremembering you as scum in a past game?

I started the bandwagon on JL, so I don't think I'm guilty of bandwagon-following. And I thought I was 2nd on SP. <_<

You didn't do it then, so its fine when you do it later?

It's true that I was following there, though.

You claim you're not guilty of bandwagon-following...and yet two sentences later you state that you were bandwagon-following.

You even stated in your vote of me that:

I can get behind an SPwagon.

My intent was to provide the necessary pressure on SP to make him active.

I haven't been active?

[SocioPath]

SSK didn't clarify that he had misremembered me as scum in ILY until after I voted him. I was thinking that SSK was just blithely saying "HE DOES THIS AS SCUM" without any evidence. I'm still slightly unsure about it, which is why I asked him who he misremembered I was scumbuddy-protecting.

Fair enough.

You haven't been inactive per se, but you'd kinda fallen on the backburner during the whole Vaya-SSK thing IIRC.

Everyone runs on a different schedule.

[SocioPath]

I don't want anybody to answer this in-game, but I have two rhetorical question

[SocioPath]

I'm also torn with this whole Pom thing, but for other reasons. Reasons that I'm going to spend a while to ramble on about.

Now, I'm a player that enjoys a good meta, I've read and played in many enjoyable games in the past, and I (try to) remember things that people say and do and are know for.

But then, there is, from my point of view, another side, more of a 'personal meta' of classifying what I know about a persons play history, and then also jointing that with what I know about the person themselves.
This mainly includes the standard online information of ASL (Age/Sex/Location).
I find these attruibutes to be very helpful when determining how someone acts.

Location is a great thing, because you can learn to judge when they generally post, and can learn to expect things at separate times, and not things at other times. (See my previous post mentioning that we all are on different schedules.) Not only for timezone consideration alone, but also good for determining holidays, and school schedules. You would be surprised to how often I see players not consider that, and call people out for lurking when its a national holiday for the person whom is absent. Or people in the Southern Hemisphere (like Australia for example) having a different schedule when it comes to school, based on the different seasons.

Sex is an obvious one in that females generally are more emotional and will generally dislike more scathing attacks on them regardless of whether or not its personal. It could also be used as a form of manipulation, whether its male towards female, or female towards male, gender difference manipulation is something I've also seen a bit in games. Lots of guys treat girls differently, and lots of girls treat guys differently as well.

Age is something that might get past a lot of people. I can't speak for anyone else, because I've never seen this subject brought up before, but I also take age into consideration when dealing with people. I check every person I can to see if they have their ages listed. And I can generally get a good idea about which kinds or arguments, or lack-there-of, I can expect from certain age ranges.


Now with all this said, its back to Pom, and with everything in consideration culminated, it leads me to a conclusion.

Given her personal meta of what I know about her, I'd have to conclude that her lack of active scum hunting is a null tell. Yes, I did say all that to come to the conclusion that is 'null'.

The reason I'm torn is one of her comments though:

I'll try to do more

now

, though.

I don't like the 'now'. This implies that since she got called out on it, only 'now' will she start trying to be useful and productive, but before, she wouldn't have.

[SocioPath]

Bah! Stereotypes! You can't just put girls and guys in boxes like that

You can't say that males and females generally don't have similar playstyles.
Adel had a very masculine, analytical playstyle even before he was a male (that is, onsite )

Its no absolute though. (as I would see a box as being as)

Seriously? hmm...I...don't like this. It makes me want to get Pom's flip. But I really want Iec's as well .

Shes a 13 year old girl in school with an older sister on the site. Pressure and people hounding her might be a bit overwhelming to the average 13 year old.
And in depth psychoanalysis and playstyle descriptions isn't something I would expect from her either. This goes with the ASL meta, and her site meta I have on her.

You on the other hand, I would. Because I know how capable you are as a player, because of how your meta is. But also another meta factor for you, you have a mod meta, and of that for these kinds of games none-the-less, so I would hold game setup speculation and instances of 'try to outguess the mod' from you to be more valued than a player that sticks to normal and newbie games.
And now I'm manipulating you by playing to your gender and stroking your ego with the mod talk of past games.
Your opinion of me changes with each sentence, me stating the things up above certainly hasn't made you think I'm more scummy, as I know that doesn't play to your meta.
It might now though.
Just be sure to know the difference between liking the argument for its structural integrity, and liking the argument because you like how it makes you perceive yourself.

Some food for thought.

[SocioPath]

Don't see it working. I don't see how my gender has factored into this actually.

I'm aware. Course, if you want to keep complimenting me, go ahead ^-^.

Also notice how virtually every response to a part of my post starts with a short, snippet of a sentence.
Was that something that happened on purpose in that you had planned?
Or did it just sort of turn out that way?
Now, its not uncommon for you to have a such response, but look at the concentration.

[SocioPath]

I'm finally back from being gone. I'll catch up at some point.

[SocioPath]

Don't see it working. I don't see how my gender has factored into this actually.

I'm aware. Course, if you want to keep complimenting me, go ahead ^-^.

Also notice how virtually every response to a part of my post starts with a short, snippet of a sentence.
Was that something that happened on purpose in that you had planned?
Or did it just sort of turn out that way?
Now, its not uncommon for you to have a such response, but look at the concentration.

Ugh, how is this relevant to ANYTHING? People have different posting styles. I can't even tell if you're trying to raise this as a point

against

UK. If you are, how do short responses make her more likely to be scum? If not, why did you make this post at all?

It was relevant in my discussion with UK. It its not neccesarily a point raised

against

UK. Its a point that there may have been a slightly more emotional response than the norm for UK. As UK said:

SP your case makes no fricken sense.

I shouldn't answer for SP, but in this case, he's not making a case on me, he's trying to mindfuck me.

It was mostly theory discussion about how I perceive, and react to, different players and types of players, with more factors than just in-game meta.

None of it was relevant scum hunting, but it was TIED to the original relevant part:
That I believe Pom's lack of scum hunting at that point was not as major of a concern as an almost majority of the town was making it out to be.
Which IS relevant. At least I saw it as such.


Also Glork, you seem burdened by erratic playing, which I find off about you.

[SocioPath]

Lurk-to-replacement?

When, more often than not, when given the first player to do so, is generally more likely to be scum.

But with Joshy, its unfortunately a null tell.
He is one of the most spotty people I've 'played' with.
I think every game I've been in with him in the past, he has been replaced out.

[SocioPath]

Mmm. Does he always play this way, too?

As far as I know.

He is a busy parent.

[SocioPath]

I mean, for the bit where he's actually playing the game, does he always seem scummy?

Not as scummy as hiding behind his V/LA.
He isn't a bad lynch at this point.

I've never got a good read on him before though.
I've never had a chance to.
Really I've just let others taken care of it in the past while I've focused on others.

[SocioPath]

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

Iecerint.

Vaya, regardless of role information.



I also note those that say 'OK' to the faraday claim, but 'NEIGH' to the SSK claim.

[SocioPath]

Alma would be at the top of my "scummy posters" list, but I wasn't sure whether implicitly claiming scum counted as "role information."

If he had specifically said "I'm scum, change me," then yes, I would consider that role information, because you are being directly influenced by that as opposed to his actual scummy/nonscummy play.
So him saying what he did, you are judging him, not by his play, but by his "role information".
But would you consider him scum for his other merits or lack-there-of?

Hence why I specified with Vaya, because there is also 'role information' that deals with him. (SSK)

[SocioPath]

Come on. Sociopath has been posting in other games, stop avoiding this one.

Ha.

[SocioPath]

Come on. Sociopath has been posting in other games, stop avoiding this one.

Ha.

Are you a mafia godfather like you were in Benmage's mini? Because if so, we can totally wagon you again. You can even tell your scumbuddies to initiate the bus. Just let us know.

You sound bitter about that.
But that wasn't my doing.

[SocioPath]

Also Phate's sig seems apt giving his wanting to mass claim, I think.

Heh, I wonder how his current opinion correlates with his sig.

[SocioPath]

Do you think we should softclaim what company/entity we're associated with? I think we have this so far:

Faraday -- Google
Alma -- WBuser, but wants to switch to Linux
Phate -- WBadministrator, but wins with town
Fishy -- CrApple

There is something that stands out about that list that doesn't sit well with me at this point of time.

[SocioPath]

Correct on all accounts. I was hoping someone to tell me I'm wrong, but that would require someone else with the same sort of company claim.

In fact,

Unvote
Vote: Faraday

That is the most solid damning thing in this game, unless someone else can claim something similar.

[SocioPath]

I think that it's out of place, but I'm not ready to vote Fara for it now. The mod told us not to pay much attention to flavor (if I'm not mistaken), and it's possible that we're being messed with, as this is a Bastard game. But with that said, I agree that it doesn't fit well.

There are claimed roles that switch people's operating systems.
Google is not an operating system.
So you can't 'switch' from Google to something else.
No flavor required.

[SocioPath]

Thats what I've gathered.

And I'm speaking more from a mechanical perspective, rather than a flavor one.

And rule 7 shouldn't be a 'Claim Out Of Jail Free Card'.

[SocioPath]

I was wrong then...I thought it was the fact that there was an easy access list of claims for scum to use, given by Iec.

Knowing how and where the town stands is not scummy.
The information is public.
I've never even considered such to be scummy.

I'll await the response of alignment switchers like s_b.

I think it was more from GM saying he WANTED to switch OSes, rather than the switchers themselves.

[SocioPath]

OUTGUESSING THE MOD MUCH?

And rule 7 shouldn't be a 'Claim Out Of Jail Free Card'.

Flail much?

You could have claimed 'US Bank' and use the 'outguessing the mod' argument.
'WELL JUST CAUSE ITS A BANK DOENST MEAN THIS ISNT A BASTARD GAME'

How is it exactly solid or damning?

Unless you can name something that is more solid than that, it is the most solid thing we have:
Everyone's company lines up but yours.
Everyone is one of the 3 companies that lines up, but you.

[SocioPath]

I think that it's out of place, but I'm not ready to vote Fara for it now. The mod told us not to pay much attention to flavor (if I'm not mistaken), and it's possible that we're being messed with, as this is a Bastard game. But with that said, I agree that it doesn't fit well.

There are claimed roles that switch people's operating systems.

Google is not an operating system.
So you can't 'switch' from Google to something else.
No flavor required.

Emphasis mine.

This is incorrect. My role (after an investigation that receives a result) can attempt to run an alignment script to change alignment. Nothing about OSes.

Its been stated that there are people in the town actively looking to switch their OSes.

[SocioPath]

I see no reason not to claim. I'm a miller. Since my rolename is also scumtastic, here's the (paraphrased) flavour -
I'm a CrApple User. I'm too lazy to switch to Linux, even though I think it's awesome. And at least CrApple's better than WinBlows.

My role PM strongly led me to believe that the town is broadly Linux, and that WinBlows are scum. I could understand if there were two large alignments, Linux and WinBlows, but it would clash with my pm if Crapple was a large alignment (unless, perhaps, it was a scum alignment).

I think that was the other one I was thinking of, although not nearly as confirming as GM's posts.

[SocioPath]

I'm not panicked. I just really hate being lynched. (As I assume does everyone).

There are some that glorify their own lynch.

The only ones that care about being lynched for the sake of being lynched, are those with self serving win conditions.
And at this point, at BEST, I see you as a Survivor.

[SocioPath]

Eh, I don't see fishy's posts as saying he can be converted. Idk, it's possible but the fact it says he's too lazy in it seems to make it likely he won't switch unless he's converted? Not that he wants to be.

These are far more informative:

It is NOT a scum claim. However, based on the flavor and rules text of my role PM, I believe S_B's ability, if it actually exists, will function on me.

Then, may I assume you are third party and want your alignment changed to town?

Because, as far as I can tell, s_b's ability will change your alignment completely, regardless of what you start at.

Not exactly. Perhaps I am interpreting the rhetoric "alignment change" differently then you based on the information I have. I win with the town, but I am currently stuck using the suck that is WinBlows. I would like to convert to the greatness that is Linux. That is what I suspect S_B may be able to do.

Or I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

You have to be converted before you can win, correct?

My role PM doesn't explicitly say that. It merely says WinBlows sucks and it would be much cooler if I were using Linux. I inferred from this that something good for me and/or the town would happen if I was converted. It could just be flavor, but given S_B's role, I don't think that's the case.

Hmm... I'm not sure. Your reasons may be right, but what if I turn you to scum?

I don't know the precise rules text and flavor of your role so I'm not sure exactly what will happen, but a town-->scum switch doesn't really seem to fit with the flavor of the game. It would make significantly more sense for each faction to be attempting to recruit players to its side, especially given what my role PM says. Do what you think is best, though.

In any case, though, I'm afraid this debacle is destracting us from scumhunting. Let's not let all the discussion focus on this one particular issue.

Fun fact: Vaya still hasn't posted. I like my current vote.

[SocioPath]

Um? Everyone should want to avoid being lynched unless their a jester. Anyone townie content with being lynched or who doesn't try their hardest not to be lynched are quite frankly stupid.

The fact is from my perspective my lynch leads to dead town, I don't see why not wanting that is a bad thing. The town are more likely to lose everytime they lynch one of their own, seriously going down not trying is useless.

You can prevent your own lynch without self serving flailing.
'OMG POM IS SCUM! THAT IS SOLID!' is not pro-town flailing.

[SocioPath]

I've been saying she was scum for ages now It's not like I just came up with it.

But unless you are scum with her, her 'being scum' IS NOT SOLID.
You claiming a previously unmentioned company name IS SOLID.
Its a FACT.

I was sarcastically pointing out your solid points weren't very solid, so yeah, I'll keep 'flailing' I guess.

You have 2 votes on you.
2 recent votes.
Many have posted.
2 have voted for you.
There are 2 wagons currently larger than yours.
Your amount of self centered attention whoring is very much so, 'flailing'.

[SocioPath]

I still like the idea of "OSes are just a red herring." But that's just me. *shrug*

Recent events have made me think this as well.

[SocioPath]

It's not like GOOGLE is any new information, it's been out there for quite a few pages and people decide to find it scummy now? Idk, I'm obviously biased but why wasn't it scummy when I claimed it seeing as there'd been a few people that claimed already

To be clear, my vote on you no longer has anything to do with the Google claim.

[SocioPath]

Less than majority lynches are never good

This is fact.

[SocioPath]

SSK needs to die.

Parroting what I said, (which is essentially a more confirming parrot of someone else.) SSK's current vote is in no way, shape, or form...helpful.
Vote is on Pom, originally to create pressure, then had a back and forth with Pom.
When questioned about scummiest people, Pom wasn't even on the list. In fact, he just half-assedly through names out there. (UK for being dodgy?)
Also is 99% certain of role-based information on someone else, and yet doesn't pursue it in the least. Essentially, I originally make a case saying Vaya being scum, SSK says 'yeah Socio is right', and then moves on never thinking about it again.

[SocioPath]

Vote: MafiaSSK

based on the above.

[SocioPath]

It's odd I didn't get a sanity on that.

Yes, quite odd indeed. Checking a sanity I would think would give a 'sane' or 'not sane' or something similar for results.
'No results' I would think would imply that there isn't a sanity there to check, meaning its hard to be sane or insane when you aren't an information role.

That, and the way SSK was acting at the end of yesterday was still really bad from my point of view.

[SocioPath]

...

/me reads her role.

god...DAMMIT.

I fucked up. I sent my action in the wrong format. That's probably why I got no result. I fucking HATE this bastardliness!

...


You can confirm that your action was useless because of the format?
Or is that speculation as to why you got no result?

[SocioPath]

Ok. I would get the same result if I had been roleblocked or if I had investigated someone with a sanity irrelevant role.

and SlySly confirms that he's not being strict on night action formats.

My vote stands.

Its clear SSK is lying scum.

[SocioPath]

Why is it impossible for me to have been roleblocked?

I'm kinda confused at this point and don't know what to do...

Its not.

I don't know why you would state it as something that would be considered 'impossible'.

Might as well ask, 'Why is it impossible that SSK is scum?'

But the far more likely scenario is that SSK doesn't have a role that depends on sanity.

Especially given his reaction.

[SocioPath]

SP: What makes you so sure SSK is scum?

What I want to know is why UK is so sure she was RB'd.

[SocioPath]

SP, please interpret the N1 kill flavor and the alignment-flips so far for me.

People can claim whatever they want, and there is nothing that can stop a claim other than logic, with the non-revealing style format.

That, and there is at least one person that is affiliated with WinBlows that has a killing role.

[SocioPath]

What I want to know is why UK is so sure she was RB'd.

Occam's razor, maybe? You know, I declared an action that would potentially clear two people or catch one scum. Do you think they'd allow me to do that, especially when they could put the sanity of the cop in doubt easily and prevent me from clarifying it? The fact you are missing this causes me to suspect you, SP

FoS: SP

Occam's razor? Are you serious?

You are saying that...the chance that there is a RB in this game...and the chance that of all people and claimed roles to target...they targeted you...is the the simplest answer?

And not...you know, SSK just not BEING a role with sanity involved?

FoS: UK

SocioPath, the role that died was revealed as guilty. How are you sure that the person that has a killing role is affiliated with WinBlows?

As sure as the flavor text directly states:

Glork -

Guilty

- Bullshitted to death by MicroSuck salesmen - Night 1

Her anguish is brought on by watching the members of the Evil Empire, armed with MicroSuck Shitsta Home Edition laptops, surround

Glork -

Guilty

and pound him into submission with sales pitches of how much better Shitsta is than XPOS.

Thats all I have to go off of.

[SocioPath]

You know what?

Unvote, Vote SP

A roleblock makes more sense if Vaya and SSK are both town. And you are pretty obv. scummy for trying to discredit this. You do realize that if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town? I think it makes a LOT OF DAMNED SENSE to RB me.

Your logic does not even begin to make sense.
Now you are saying it would be likely two confirmed towns if you weren't RB'd?
...Despite the 'fact' that SSK has a claimed guilty on Vaya.

And with all the claimed roles so far...YOURS is the one thats OH SO IMPORTANT that would need RB'd?


Am I the only one in this game that didn't get a RBing Copping role?!

[SocioPath]

Also: SP is officially very annoying.

How so?

[SocioPath]

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.

Again, two confirmeds is KINDA BIG. Since we kinda can't trust the cops. I'm pretty sure a sanity checker would be sane though.

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.
TWO CONFIRMED TOWN?
LIKELY?
You are saying that the most likely scenario is SSK is insane.
And that his results on Vaya were WRONG.
And that HE is TOWN...somehow...

[SocioPath]

Bastard game, etc.

So...you think your role...will confirm ANYTHING...let alone TWO TOWN...in a BASTARD GAME?

Cause the one thing that everyone knows about bastard games is how confirmable everything is...

Why is SSK scum? You never did answer this.

In addition to what I said about him at the end of the day yesterday, I thought he response to you was rather construed:

Kay. Winblows hacker for Linux. I can use a script to see someone's alignment. Once I have used that script,which I did yesterday,I turn have a red flag set on my computer and thusly investigate Guilty. This is why I am sure Vaya is guilty, it would be the most bastardish thing for a mod to do for my result not to be sane.

This was after your:

Wish I could tell you something.


SSK, fullclaim.

I got no result on him.

I shall claim myself

I'm a sanity checker. Obviously I was hoping to get a sane or insane result on SSK. Since I got neither, and in fact, no result at all, I can tell you nothing about Vaya OR SSK. Hence why I want a fullclaim. I could go for a Vaya lynch.

Though reading what just happened, an Alma lynch is also acceptable.

But yeah, I'd like SSK to claim precisely why Vaya was "guilty"

It looked like he thought you implied 'gotcha scum', and he responded with 'oh well when I use my role I'll go guilty thats why'.

It sounded like he was trying to explain your result on him because he thought your 'no result' was a guilty at the time.

[SocioPath]

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

But,
If your result was SSK is sane, then Vaya would be scum.
If your result was SSK is insane, Vaya would be town.

In neither scenario do you determine SSK's alignment.

So I find your statement of:

if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town

as inaccurate.

[SocioPath]

Also Phate and his massclaim obsession only makes me think doing such would be a terrible idea regarding his role.

Maybe he is just a lyncher, but...

We need a massclaim.

Actually, I've changed my mind. Let's massclaim tomorrow.

(After she's done so, please answer my question.)

Once she does, I will. She pointed out a few reasons why massclaiming early can be a bad idea. I didn't ask for a few reasons why massclaiming early can be a bad idea.

Actually, I won't lead you on. I have no intention of answering your question, as the answer is role-related.

I would still like Pom's answer, though.

Okay.

You guys should massclaim tomorrow. No one except snowbunny convert. If there are any protective roles, etc, they should target snowbunny. Good luck.

Make damn sure you massclaim. This setup seems easily breakable.

Trust Glork. I'm pretty sure he's town, and he seems savvier than the rest of you.

Go town.

We're massclaiming today. I adamantly refuse to lynch anyone before we massclaim.

During the massclaim, claim as much of the following as the mod will allow you to: Rolename, traits and abilities of your role, flavor, affiliation, targets, results, and anything that's happened to you. If there's something else relevant I've forgotten, claim that too. Everyone should go ahead and send claims into the mod now to check to see if they're alright, so we don't have to wait for mod permission every time.

Phate, who did you target, and did you convert them?

I'll reveal this during the massclaim, obviously.

Also, what do you expect to gain from a massclaim?

I expect to break the setup.

Do you trust Glork? He was pro-massclaim, pro-town, and now dead. What does that tell you?

I'm not going to argue with the mod, but yes, I'm still in favor of a massclaim.

Okay, I changed my mind.

I am going to argue with the mod.

Still in favor of a massclaim.

Iecerint, I will wait one day for a massclaim.

And a strange obsession with Glork, in the poor reading comprehension kind of way, too.
In fact, multiple reading errors. With the dead's alignments, with how kills were done. Very hasty conclusions.
And yet still trying to forcefully lead the town.

[SocioPath]

3. Vaya is not scum for pointing out the situation with Alma in a circumstance where no one had picked up on GDM even after I'd mentioned it.

I've commonly seen scum be some of the most helpful players in a game.
So that doesn't rule Vaya out.
But I wouldn't lynch Vaya at this point anyways.
I have a somewhat controversal view in that I would rather lynch VI/terribly anti-town town, than a helpful scum.

4. Given all that, UK has to be town, because there was no reason for her to stop the Vaya lynch D1 if she was scum.

I've commonly seen scum derail townie lynches.
So that doesn't rule UK out.

5. Phate/tubby is town because of something that happened N1 and early D2. I will elaborate on this later.

I don't personally know what this is about, so I can't say much.
From my outside point of view, I think the whole thing made Phate look worse.

6. I think SB is probably town because of her claim on Phate. She claimed it before I intimated any insight, so she cleared Phate, Cop/converter.

More of that Phate stuff that I am out of the loop for, apparently.

[SocioPath]

However, I'll rather go with the

4 likely suspects.

That is a terrible misobservation.

[SocioPath]

However, I'll rather go with the

4 likely suspects.

That is a terrible misobservation.

How come?

Well because:

That leaves the 4 players on

my

list.

Iec is in no way, shape, or form, cleared of anything by any means.
Now obviously he wouldn't put himself on his own scumlist.
But for other players to take that as their own, is not a good thing.
And a bit of a false dilemma.

[SocioPath]

I assumed he was RB'd town at the start of D2 because of his desire for a massclaim. I thought he was operating under the assumption that scum had roleblocked him, so he wanted to massclaim to look for RB-flavored fakeclaims. His response to my private confession was also consistent with that. That's why I thought he was town earlier today, but his N1 result claim makes that impossible. I guess his massclaim request was actually just a continuation of his D1 behavior.

That makes sense for now, in a role related matter. Very scummy as far as role reveal for him is concerned.
Pair that with very scummy player slot, for a match made in heaven.
To pair him with other players though, that'll be the tricky part. Aside from the obvious, that is.

[SocioPath]

Vote: UncertainKitten

This vote is not role-related by any means.

[SocioPath]

Now, why are you voting me SP?

Because you are scum with Iec, as given away by your play.

[SocioPath]

Nows not the time to be voting Vaya, now is the time to be voting UK.

[SocioPath]

The vote count yesterday listed Iec and GM as potential voters...mod error...or roles acting from beyond the grave?

Actually, they were listed as potential votEEs, not votERs, but yes, it was mod error. It is fixed now.

[SocioPath]

I am under the assumption that UK's alignment had changed at some point.

[SocioPath]

Well what we have from yesterday:

SSK who was 99% sure of his sanity and Vaya's guilt, but never pushed that until it mattered.
(I.E. saving a mislynch for later.)
Imagine if SSK and Vaya both made it to LYLO.
SSK would go 'oh but remember my guilty? lets go with him.'



And then there is Pom, who went 'oh gee who should I vote for' and then SSK said Vaya AND VOTED VAYA IN THE SAME POST.

Meaning Pom would have to HAVE READ THE POST, UNDERSTOOD THE VOTE, AND THEN CONTINUE TO PROCEED TO VOTE FOR VAYA.

Its not like it was a "OOPS SIMULTANEOUS VOTING ACCIDENTAL HAMMER"


Both are scummy as hell in my eyes, but taking everything into account, SSK is the one that is based off of something that he himself said was "99%" certain.

So either that 1% screwed him over...
...or he tried gambiting and lying through his teeth cause claimed cops rarely see the lynch.

Not to mention he tried claiming his certainly on Vaya as a breadcrumb to millerness.

So he has even claimed that he will already come up as guilty to investigations.


...which might mean you aren't naive at all, and Pom/UK actually are innocent.

I think everything that I said previously on SSK ring so much more true now:

SSK needs to die.

Parroting what I said, (which is essentially a more confirming parrot of someone else.) SSK's current vote is in no way, shape, or form...helpful.
Vote is on Pom, originally to create pressure, then had a back and forth with Pom.
When questioned about scummiest people, Pom wasn't even on the list. In fact, he just half-assedly through names out there. (UK for being dodgy?)
Also is 99% certain of role-based information on someone else, and yet doesn't pursue it in the least. Essentially, I originally make a case saying Vaya being scum, SSK says 'yeah Socio is right', and then moves on never thinking about it again.

Bastard game, etc.

So...you think your role...will confirm ANYTHING...let alone TWO TOWN...in a BASTARD GAME?

Cause the one thing that everyone knows about bastard games is how confirmable everything is...

Why is SSK scum? You never did answer this.

In addition to what I said about him at the end of the day yesterday, I thought he response to you was rather construed:

Kay. Winblows hacker for Linux. I can use a script to see someone's alignment. Once I have used that script,which I did yesterday,I turn have a red flag set on my computer and thusly investigate Guilty. This is why I am sure Vaya is guilty, it would be the most bastardish thing for a mod to do for my result not to be sane.

This was after your:

Wish I could tell you something.


SSK, fullclaim.

I got no result on him.

I shall claim myself

I'm a sanity checker. Obviously I was hoping to get a sane or insane result on SSK. Since I got neither, and in fact, no result at all, I can tell you nothing about Vaya OR SSK. Hence why I want a fullclaim. I could go for a Vaya lynch.

Though reading what just happened, an Alma lynch is also acceptable.

But yeah, I'd like SSK to claim precisely why Vaya was "guilty"

It looked like he thought you implied 'gotcha scum', and he responded with 'oh well when I use my role I'll go guilty thats why'.

It sounded like he was trying to explain your result on him because he thought your 'no result' was a guilty at the time.

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

But,
If your result was SSK is sane, then Vaya would be scum.
If your result was SSK is insane, Vaya would be town.

In neither scenario do you determine SSK's alignment.

So I find your statement of:

if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town

as inaccurate.

[SocioPath]

The silence is golden.

[SocioPath]

But see Pom, thats the pinnacle of the beauty of his response.

First he says, "Oh right I didn't actually respond to anything."

Then he says, "Oh well before I going to make any attempts what-so-ever to defend myself, shouldn't we do something else first thats not about me?"

Then he says, "That thing we can do first, lets mass claim, and by mass claim, I mean SP claim."

So much said for less than 10 words spoken.


I am a CrApple Developer.

I can attempt to change alignments of players.

Balls back in your court, SSK.
How next are you going to stall?

[SocioPath]

Dodgy is right.

Nothing he has said has put any doubt in my mind that he is scum.

I'd REEEEEEALLY like to see what he has to say about...lets see...EVERYTHING.

[SocioPath]

Actually.
Screw it.
There is literally nothing he can say at this point to convince me otherwise that he is scum.
Everything he has done all game is just terrible.
And at the rate he has been 'responding' and posting...

...I have a feeling we would be waiting forever for single line after single line.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[SocioPath]

UK was too illogical to live.

[SocioPath]

Because not a single person made any sort of comment or notice of the multiple kills.

Because more than half the time I see a vig claim, it leads to an SK...especially if I'm the one that caused them to claim.

All in all, it wasn't needed.
Nor would I have claimed that anyways.

The amount of suspicion on me was clse to none.

And my scum hunting was decent enough. ;o

Also as a fail safe...first night the reason for no kill...I changed my own alignment.
I figure this would do 2 things:
Either show me that my alignment was unalterable.
Or make me win with the town.

I didn't know for sure either way.
But at the rate I was going there was no way I could lose.
(i.e. A town win would = my win.)

JUST GOES TO SHOW:
My scum hunting is top notch REGARDLESS OF SIDE.
Whether town, mafia, or SK.
I always find scum with a massive percentage in my favor.

And if I'm not finding scum, I'm finding other roles.

[SocioPath]

SP was scum AGAIN?

Seriously, he is 3 for 3 on being scum in games I've played with him.

And the first game I would have likely won as well if not for a fatal mod error causing the OP cop fiasco.
(As an SK as well.)

[SocioPath]

My scum hunting is top notch REGARDLESS OF SIDE.

Bullshit. You called me scum were wrong as hell.

Like I said, you were too illogical to live.
Your Occam's razor case.
The deal with SSK.
So many to list.

You ignored given logic until I shoved it down your throat enough for you to agree with me.
And you did eventually cave on virtually all points.

You interactions with Iec were very questionable as well...to the point that the night I submitted the Iec kill, I went "If he is guilty, I'm going to pursue UK until one of us stops breathing.

As for the 'mindfuck'ing...sometimes a mindfuck is just a mindfuck...AND WHO DOESN'T LIKE A GOOD ONE OF THOSE FROM TIME TO TIME.

[SocioPath]

Indeed. You are on permanent radar from now on.

Oh yeah, and I TOLD YOU Pom was scum.

I think Pom has been scum in every game I've played with her, as well.

[SocioPath]

But I was town.

And I wasn't. ;D

And you've played with me long enough to know how I play.

Of which I will still try to change parts of.

Hopefully you knew damn well I wasn't scum.

At that point, it didn't matter to me.
The incessant needless babble was detracting from my actual scum hunting.
You're a good player, and I like your play style...but when I have to repeat myself enough times...kill mode gets activated.

Logic does not a townie make.

This is true.
But, I've been known to say (and stand behind) that I would rather lynch anti-town town that I know is town, than very pro-town scum that I know is scum.
(Barring obvious end-game and possible end-game scenarios.)

[SocioPath]

This is true.
But, I've been known to say (and stand behind) that I would rather lynch anti-town town that I know is town, than very pro-town scum that I know is scum.
(Barring obvious end-game and possible end-game scenarios.)

And that's retarded.

I've been told such anytime I state that.

You're a good player, and I like your play style...but when I have to repeat myself enough times...kill mode gets activated.

This doesn't jibe with everything else you are saying. Trying to soften the blow or something?

Pretty much.

[SocioPath]

You mean your "case" that I was scum with Vaya?

It feel like I was arguing with myself on Day 3 since the consensus seemed to be just to state there was a connection and quote me on it when at that point Vaya was so town in my eyes.

D1, when I made that points, yes, I thought you and Vaya could have been scum together. Although I was certainly more sure about you than Vaya (hence the kill.)

Later in the day though, and following days...Vaya I wasn't going to touch.

[SocioPath]

I mean, hell, I was targetting scum BOTH TIMES! I should have known they were lying .

I was surprised no one called me out on sorta believing the RB on you D1 at first in spite of being a kind of RBer myself. I was going to point out that there was also parallelism in Phate's role and SB's, and Phate had been shown innocent. <_<

The "Occam's razor" on that arguement...RAAAAAAAGE. >:C

'...so the simplest explanation you have have is that SSK is town...and is insane...and that explains his guilty result on the innocent Vaya...and that you were role blocked when checking the sanity of SSK...

...The simplest explanation couldn't possibly be that SSK doesn't have a sanity so you would get no results regardless of your contrived situation.'


WAT.

[SocioPath]

Whatever. I am actually forced to cede you are a good scumhunter when you aren't being a fucktard. TTGL mafia was amazing.

I'm abrasive and efficient.

Fucktardicity also certainly helps me find scum some times.

When in doubt, see username.

[SocioPath]

The first 3/5 of page 37 was amusing in that regards in a fun-bash-your-head-into-a-wall-repeatedly kind of way.

[SocioPath]

My favorite part is where I call you annoying and no one cares.

I CARED. D;<

And all I got in response was a

[SocioPath]

I think the Mod arguing back and forth with Phate was pretty bad.

I agree.
Although Phate gives himself way too much credit and his attitude in general is a very poor one, to say the least.
Misplaced egos abound.
I'm glad he stepped out when he did.

[SocioPath]

SP's obvious fakeclaim.

My claim was real.
It just left off the alignment part, and the killing part.

Alternatively, you and SSK could have rush-voted either of the two players for a certain win. Deadline would have lynched whoever had the most votes first in the event of a tie.

That is smart thinking.

[SocioPath]

Night 1:
4. UncertainKitty (Psychiatrist) - /target MafiaSSK - No results

Night 3:
4. UncertainKitty - /reveal MafiaSSK - no results

Also this part makes zero sense to me.
It was already stated, by UK herself, that actions weren't super word sensitive.
Unless it was still riding that whole RB thing.

Although immediately into D3 the whole formatting thing was brought up again like it was a case point or something...even though it was already clarified earlier.

Which only confirmed my suspicions even more so.
Cranking the scum dial from 9 to 11.

[SocioPath]

Which only confirmed my suspicions even more so.
Cranking the scum dial from 9 to 11.

Huh? On who? Me? That's kinda stupid to do on someone who's (now) confirmed town since the beginning of the game.

You play like scum, you get treated like scum. ;o
And of all the players, you were playing arguably the scummiest.

Whether or not your name tag says 'scum' or 'town' doesn't make it 'stupid' to treat you based on how you were acting. ;o

Getting a role marked as 'town' doesn't give one free reign to make illogical rampages and get off scot-free without consequence just because THEY know they are town.
Scum may have to portray themselves as town, but town also have to "portray" themselves as town.

[SocioPath]

Then why wasn't I lynched, SP?

Riddle me that. If I'm so "scummy" then the lynch mechanic should deal with me.

Therefore, you might want to revise what you consider "scummy"

Heh,
Answer is easy:

First, the day I was gunning for your lynch, the voting consisted of obvtown Vaya at that point:
4 people.
Fishy - Who was taking a case I made on D1 and using it.
You - Same
SSK - Double scum team up quick lynch
Pom - Double scum team up quick lynch



Second, and more concisely:

Why weren't you lynched?

...Why did scum get a perfect win in TTGL?
The answer to that should answer about the 'lynch mechanic'. ;D


Its fun to debate though.

[SocioPath]

The thing is, scuminess is quite subjective. People get lynched for being "scummy" in the eyes of the town. Your unilateral opinion on scuminess doesn't dictate whether I was playing scummily or not. What dictates that is whether the majority of the town thought so, thusly lynching me. If I had truly been the scummiest player, I would have been lynched D1.

Not everyone is created equally, and thus, certain players notice certain trends while others may not.

Look at the players that I made strong, compelling cases against, and then pursued, and look at which of those were scum.

I'm just saying, pursuing you for your lack of logic, and pseudo-contradictions, and absurd assumptions, not seeing clearly, and etc...
...doesn't tarnish my name. ;D

[SocioPath]

You don't use a list of tells, you figure out if the "scumtell" is being done to hurt town or if it's a misguided attempt to help town.

I don't use a list of tells.

You were certainly hurting the town.

'Oh I must have been RB'd blablabla'


And you lead to the result of a scum driven townie quick lynch.

Bottom line, you were hurting the town.
You had to be put down.

[SocioPath]

Cept you were an SK

How did your perspective of me shift throughout the game though?

Did you think I was an SK D1? D2? When you got NK'd? At which point did you think I was not of town?



And me killing you was what I saw to be helping the town.

All my kills were aimed at taking out scum.

I NK'd 2 scum. I Drove the lynch of 1 scum.

I think I did alright when it comes to helping the town.
Aside from my own alignment quibbles.
Although it should also be noted I attempted to change my own alignment N1.
I exuded townieness all game. ;o

[SocioPath]

Nyeh, honestly, I have a bit of favoritism. I like playing with you so I'm less likely to think you scum, which is problematic. I do the same with others I play with a lot.

Same, but at the point Iec was scum, and your:

I WAS lost this game and overall useless

there was a massively good chance from everything that had been said so far you were scum with Iec. I even predicted that you 'targeted' Iec. I made SURE to get in there as soon as the thread was opened to vote you as to not have it tarnished by what you said. You targetting Iec was IECCING on the cake. ;o

I notice you didn't answer the other points. Good going ^-^.

Just cause they weren't directly quoted doesn't mean they weren't without answers in their own little ways. ;D

[SocioPath]

At the point of which I aimed for your lynch, I thought you were.
'Wrong' is a silly term to throw around.
Scum or not, you were a good lynch.

[SocioPath]

That implies you need to reassess how you handle me.

And how would you propose I do such?

[SocioPath]

Actually, you less so since you WERE an SK. However, you say you were playing as town, and from a town perspective you were wrong.

SK was my fail safe. ;D

If I was just a vig, I might have vig'd SSK before you.
Since my case on him based off of his and your back and forth was pretty concrete.
Also since you weren't scum, it confirmed that SSK was.
And was something that I could with in LYLO.
Which I did.
And the NK'd the last obvious scum, MS. OOPS QUICK LYNCH MAD BAD. XD

[SocioPath]

cookie cutter scum hunting.

Heh.
In this game alone I've detailed how I just START scum hunting with a player even before reading anything they've wrote.

[SocioPath]

I have no reason to keep arguing.

Because debating is fun.
If it wasn't, Mafia as a game would flop.
AND YOU ENJOY MY PERSONABLE PERSONALITY.

[SocioPath]

SO THEN IT RELIES ENTIRELY ON MY PERSONABLE PERSONALITY.

[SocioPath]

Heh...when in doubt, consult the wiki I guess:

Well, I'm forbiddanlight, and as far as my data indicates, I am one of the most inverted players ever, in that my scum game is usually my most pro town and

my townie game is scummier than the actual scum.