Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Originally I was jokingly voting him to see how he reacted to a bit of pressure, I didn't read his push on Torqez as scummy nor indicative of him being town, it was just a case. But the more he posted the more my jaw dropped, at this point in time he is my top lynch advocate.

You mean candidate, not advocate btw.

[nhammen]

Vote Count

Torqez (4): Debonair Danny DiPietro, julienvonwolfe, Scott Brosius, Chinaman
julienvonwolfe (3): PaltryExcuse, Wulfy, CallMeLiam
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2): muh316, el simo
Chinaman (2): Torqez, don_johnson
don_johnson (1): Josh Lyman

Not voting

(0):

with 12 players remaining, it takes 7 to lynch

Mod: V/LA till 16th Dec

Noted.

V/LA until late in the evening on the 14th / early morning of the 15th.

Noted.

Reminder: Deadline is in less than 1 week.

[don_johnson]

It could also be that Chinaman sees him as scum, and therefore he sees it as a poor attempt at faking scumhunting.
Personally, I don't have a scum / town read on him, so in this case

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

i am not.

What are other typical roles that have NK immunity?

a) i deliberately phrased my role claim to avoid being placed into the "nk immune" category. i may simply have any number of bulletproof vests. my role may also have other facets. i may, in fact, have a static nk immune ability. clarifying this only helps scum so i would rather stew in ambiguity until necessary.

b) to answer the question excluding the word "other": i have seen godfather's and serial killers carry nk immune traits. i do not believe that either of those roles can be considered to "typically" carry nk immunity, however. I have never had an nk immune gf role, and the one serial killer role i had was not nk immune. i don't know of "town roles" other than "bulletproof townie", "townie with bulletproof vest" etc.

part of why i'm claiming is to put it out in the open early and give town more choices in how to deal with it, rather than risk claiming later in the game with less credibility under pressure and losing a key town advantage.

Don, while I see your point of China's scum slip, I could use a little more. Also, I don't like how you say you have other suspects but don't mention them.

holding off on my list until i get more reactions. only one of my other suspects has posted since my claim.

i don't have more regarding chinaman. i read his post as a "genuine" scumslip. i believe it a lynchable offense on day 1 regardless of a "townie" read.

[Josh Lyman]

part of why i'm claiming is to put it out in the open early and give town more choices in how to deal with it, rather than risk claiming later in the game with less credibility under pressure and losing a key town advantage.

I think the

real

reason you're claiming is to draw attention AWAY from yourself -- if you've already claimed town, after all, how can anyone

possibly

think you could be scum? Based on this, and the reasons I voted your predecessor, my vote remains.

We need more don_johnson votes, guys. We're running out of time (less than a week).

I am not trying to pull the time thing in order to quicklynch -- I merely think that this is our most likely scum, and thus needs to be lynched. Stat.

I invite and welcome discussion on this point.

[CallMeLiam]

I think the case on d_j is pretty slight actually, and his bulletproof status (if genuine) is pretty handy to the town especially later in the game. If we have a vig I'd suggest they test his claim out tonight to prepare for the late game. I think that your pushing of a lynch on him is pretty suspicious too I might add Josh.

Ultimately we do need to lynch today and I maintain that julien hasn't done anything decisive since I've been here and certainly not before that.

[Josh Lyman]

I think the case on d_j is pretty slight actually, and his bulletproof status (if genuine) is pretty handy to the town especially later in the game. If we have a vig I'd suggest they test his claim out tonight to prepare for the late game. I think that your pushing of a lynch on him is pretty suspicious too I might add Josh.

Ultimately we do need to lynch today and I maintain that julien hasn't done anything decisive since I've been here and certainly not before that.

Are you advocating a no-lynch? I hate that.

I am not pushing; I very clearly said I was inviting discussion on the topic.

If he truly is bulletproof, he could be useful. It's just my opinion, based on what he said (and other things, as I mentioned) that he's lying scum.

[el simo]

Originally I was jokingly voting him to see how he reacted to a bit of pressure, I didn't read his push on Torqez as scummy nor indicative of him being town, it was just a case. But the more he posted the more my jaw dropped, at this point in time he is my top lynch advocate.

You mean candidate, not advocate btw.

This is true

[Scott Brosius]

part of why i'm claiming is to put it out in the open early and give town more choices in how to deal with it, rather than risk claiming later in the game with less credibility under pressure and losing a key town advantage.

I think the

real

reason you're claiming is to draw attention AWAY from yourself -- if you've already claimed town, after all, how can anyone

possibly

think you could be scum? Based on this, and the reasons I voted your predecessor, my vote remains.

We need more don_johnson votes, guys. We're running out of time (less than a week).

I am not trying to pull the time thing in order to quicklynch -- I merely think that this is our most likely scum, and thus needs to be lynched. Stat.

I invite and welcome discussion on this point.

Why lynch him now? I'm not saying he gets a free pass, but I see no reason to lynch a claimed townie on D1.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

part of why i'm claiming is to put it out in the open early and give town more choices in how to deal with it, rather than risk claiming later in the game with less credibility under pressure and losing a key town advantage.

I think the

real

reason you're claiming is to draw attention AWAY from yourself -- if you've already claimed town, after all, how can anyone

possibly

think you could be scum? Based on this, and the reasons I voted your predecessor, my vote remains.

We need more don_johnson votes, guys. We're running out of time (less than a week).

I am not trying to pull the time thing in order to quicklynch -- I merely think that this is our most likely scum, and thus needs to be lynched. Stat.

I invite and welcome discussion on this point.

Why lynch him now? I'm not saying he gets a free pass, but I see no reason to lynch a claimed townie on D1.

Oh well if that's all it takes to not get lynched then I'm claiming to be a townie, possibly with secret powers, possibly not. You see why your argument fails? That being said I see no reason to lynch DJ right now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, people enjoy playing scum roles but they also enjoy playing power roles, you don't need a dataset to know that. You are ignoring half of the possibilities that your own logic brings up and just claiming that he is scum.

There is such a thing as logic that's actually counter intuitive such as when driving you turn into a skid to right yourself. Hence while logic can get you some of the way there, evidence is a much stronger base and I have no evidence that supports or contradicts the power roles replace out less often theory.

Post 11 claims that being bored with the game is an excuse that does work and then continues provides us with an completely different example to what Torqez is being accused of giving.

The point is that a player can sometimes be given a free pass to a degree by giving pre-emptive notice of poor behavior. As the town we should take notice of such behavior and shouldn't let it stand. Since I see no pro-town benefit for making such a sad statement, attack.

Post 16: What? How does that matter? If something is scummy it is scummy and if more than one person is doing it you should be grinding everyone about it, not just tunneling in on one person. If I killed a man and told the cops that it doesn't matter because all my friends are doing it they are sure as hell not just going to lock me up, they'd at the least ask me for evidence to support my case, not just say "that never worked on your mother."

Context, Torquez was trying to evade suspicion by simply dragging other unnamed people down with him. If he really believed such behavior was poor then why wouldn't he call them out? Instead he simultaneously tries to redirect attention from himself and facilitates their behavior by not attempting to pressure them himself.

[nhammen]

Prodding muh316

[julienvonwolfe]

JVW:

Your vote on torquez came with very little reasoning and at a time when the only debate going was torq vs DDD...

so?

and subsequent posts have had nothing to add except for dealing with things that directly concern your own defense.

Yes, fair enough, I haven't been active enough. I usually try to post at least once per day but I haven't kept to that schedule. With deadline approaching, I need to fix that and fast.

I believe DJ's bulletproof townie claim, since all it would take is a cop or a tracker to catch him if he were mafia. If there's a vig, they can target him if they want, I guess, but if he doesn't die they shouldn't claim tomorrow. No need to have two outed power-roles for the mafia to pick and choose from.

On this basis (and because I think DDD's logic on Torqez is actually weak) I will

unvote, vote: Josh Lyman

for pushing for a DJ lynch.

[don_johnson]

i agree here with julien.

i will write up summaries of my other three suspects asap, but josh was on the list. his knee jerk reacion of calling for the lynch of a player claiming "nk immune" or "bulletproof" is anti-town at best. generally, town has the ability to only kill during the daytime, i.e. lynch. so town really has nothing to fear from an nk immune role. the only players who would seek to rid themselves of nk immune players would be scum or serialkiller. town can lynch, investigate, track, roleblock, etc. depending on the set-up.

i would like to hear from chinaman in response to his "slip", but josh lymans reaction has me happy lynching them today as well.

my other three suspects were simo, scott brosius, and muh. of those three, brosius and muh have since moved back towards null, and simo has actually accumulated town points. i will have summaries up later, but i think josh lyman should be pressed a bit more here.

[muh316]

Oh sorry I didnt notice this game *starts watching this topic* there. now im going to read.

[Josh Lyman]

Oh sorry I didnt notice this game *starts watching this topic* there. now im going to read.

After TWENTY posts, you try to pull this garbage?

Way to slip, scum. Get lynched.

unvote
vote muh316

[muh316]

I had problems with my firefox and had to download it over again. So then I lost this out of my bookmarks. Now that its on my watched list along with my other games ill be more active.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'm not convinced by Josh's case on muh.

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm not convinced by Josh's case on muh.

Who would be? It's not even a case. muh could've come back and just posted something other than an explanation / apology. I don't like

However, muh, updated thoughts are good now.

JVW:

Your vote on torquez came with very little reasoning and at a time when the only debate going was torq vs DDD...

so?

How is it a good thing? What reasoning we did see is that you wanted conversation... however, conversation was (although admittedly slowly) was going on. What you did seemed to stifle and confuse more than progress.

On don_johnson's claim, it's not so much the matter of believe or don't believe. I haven't seen anything as particularly scummy at this point, so that's why I don't want to lynch him. The claim came early, and that's weird, but not scummy. Really, I'll decide with more info whether or not d_j is lying.

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP:

I don't like

the reasoning, and it definitely isn't worth a vote IMO.

[CallMeLiam]

I think the case on d_j is pretty slight actually, and his bulletproof status (if genuine) is pretty handy to the town especially later in the game. If we have a vig I'd suggest they test his claim out tonight to prepare for the late game. I think that your pushing of a lynch on him is pretty suspicious too I might add Josh.

Ultimately we do need to lynch today

and I maintain that julien hasn't done anything decisive since I've been here and certainly not before that.

Are you advocating a no-lynch?

I hate that.

I am not pushing; I very clearly said I was inviting discussion on the topic.

If he truly is bulletproof, he could be useful. It's just my opinion, based on what he said (and other things, as I mentioned) that he's lying scum.

Bolded parts for emphasis.

I don't think he's been even remotely scummy enough to warrant a D1 lynch of a claimed power role, a claim that was made under zero pressure. This is a bad idea and I'm glad you've dropped it.

I don't like muh's disappearance, but with only a week left I also don't like your vote on him, especially not if you were so sure that d_j was lying scum only a few posts before.

[CallMeLiam]

Sorry, to clarify I don't like muh's disappearance and then re-appearance with nothing to add. His vanishing act isn't a tell either way if what he says is true.

[Josh Lyman]

Regarding muh: I just think that the way he phrased it sounded like he was trying to appear innocent, as though he actually hadn't realized the game had started. That is honestly how I parsed his post 188, so I checked his posts; when I found TWENTY of them, I basically lost it. Yes, I have a life, but I do know which games I'm in, whether or not my browser crashed or whatever. I still think his attitude is very anti-town, especially since he promised to be more active; he had two posts within 30 minutes, and now nothing. Can we say "active lurking?" IMO, muh should rectify this. Soon.

unvote
FoS: muh

[nhammen]

Prodding Chinaman and Wulfy

[Wulfy]

@Paltry: Where do you plan on getting more info regarding DJ? Ask more question.

Muh, say something relevant.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Paltry: Where do you plan on getting more info regarding DJ? Ask more question.

Muh, say something relevant.

If you see something I'm missing feel free to go at it.

The only thing I would like clarified is why you aren't giving Chinaman the benefit of doubt. Meaning, if you agree with most of what he says why does one comment sway your opinion on the matter?