Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[elvis_knits]

Buttonmen makes good point in 267. DN seems to unimprint anyone who people start to talk about as scum, without knowing or understanding the reasons why the person is being attacked.

---

On to lewarcher.

Lew seems to misunderstand the messiah/pug. Part of this may have to do with messiah misnumbering pug's post. I sorted it out. For reference, DN's post is 52 where he presents the all-or-nothing power plan, Pugs' post is 78, and messiah's post is 82.

I agree with pug and messiah here, since DN tried to make us choose to either give everyone powers or nobody, and misrepped me saying I wanted to play without powers. He says he considers any plan to without everyone getting powers to be "without powers." I think this is misleading and pushes the town into an all-or-nothing decision which it does not need to do.

---

lew, you make several comments about my posting which are criticisms of me, but pretty vague, and not things I think actually have a bearing on allignment, although I think you intend them to mean that you find me scummy.

1)

Elvis's post 85: clever point, but not useful. The fog surrounding imprinted roles is the very philosophy of this game. Isn't this perhaps nonconstructive criticism?

I was trying to show why buttonmen's plan wouldn't work. I think that's pretty constructive, if I can stop a line of planning which will ultimately go nowhere.

2)

Elvis 123-124: WIFOM on SC's account. Weird.
Elvis 126: glorious WIFOM.
Elvis 129: declared WIFOM out of frustration.

You really think it's WIFOM for me to assume that scum would have read and understood their role PM and known they did not get a NK in this game without getting an imprint? Please explain.

3)

Elvis-Starbuck 198-199: Elvis seems clumsy as she tries to answer Starbuck's FoS on her. Last two lines lack of any good argument and try to invoke self-conscious town alignment. Noise, mainly.

I need more explanation on this too, because I want to know what is clumsy, and if you think a "clumsy" answer is scummy and why.

And why do you think I am "invokign self-conscious town allignment" rather than actually being town alligned?

4)

Elvis 231: did you? You do, than I will post my comments about SC's options list.

Why do you want me to comment before you do in a question directed to people who think me and SC are scum? What is the point?

231 is addressed to people who think me and SC are scum buddies (I am obviously NOT one of those people). 231 shows how convoluted, ridiculous and improbable the idea is that me and SC are buddies. I obviously agree with SC, if you couldn't figure that out.

I want people to defend how they think it is reasonable to assume me and SC are buddies pulling a gambit.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #6=-

Alaska (2) - Iowa, Colorado
Nevada (2) - Virginia, Georgia
Virginia (1) - Arizona
Arizona (1) - Alaska
Iowa (1) - Ohio

Not Voting (5) - Florida, Kansas, Montana, Nevada, Hawaii

7 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #6=-

Ohio (4) - Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Ohio
Alaska (3) - Alaska, Nevada, Virginia
Hawaii (3) - Nevada, Iowa, Arizona
Florida (3) - Nevada, Florida, Ohio
Iowa (2) - Iowa, Arizona
Virginia (2) - Alaska, Virginia
Arizona (2) - Nevada, Iowa
Colorado (2) - Nevada, Ohio
Montana (2) - Nevada, Ohio
Georgia (1) - Nevada
Kansas (1) - Nevada
Nevada (1) - Nevada

7 to imprint.

[lewarcher82]

1) problem is that there is too much fantasy to be constructive. We have no idea what imprintings really are. I prefer to stick to what we know.

2) no, sorry, my bad. I mean that it is WIFOM to assume it, it is WIFOM to ask us assume it as well. I call WIFOM all the statements that can be expressed starting with "if I were scum I would have done $_TownyAction/ I wouldn't have done $_ScummyAction".

3) this I call clumsy:

I'm not going to stop trying to convince people to help me do what I think is best. And perhaps I am slightly obnoxious at times. But it's not my way or the highway. I think we have to agree on something, even if it's not what I want. And that's what I encouraged us all to do earlier today.

also:

He completely ignored my point, which would make giving everyone a power very dangerous and much more beneficial to scum. So it's not just that he suggested something anti-town, but he suggested something anti-town AFTER I specifically pointed out that it could be anti-town.

so DN would be scummy & stupid, since in your reconstruction he practically claimed scum, right?

4) I want your comment because many things can be deduced from how and how much you agree with SC points.

------

I did misunderstand Messiah's posts, sorry, english is not my 1st language.

[elvis_knits]

1) I'm assuming imprints are power roles. Which power roles are available, I don't know. You think this is too much of a crazy assumption and I shouldn't speculate on it?

2) But what do you think? You don't think that scum would read and understand their role PM and understand their kill mechanic?

3) I'm wondering if clumsy is the right word, since it doesn't really fit IMO. Can you explain a bit more what you don't like about those statements or use a different word?
Clumsy usually means awkward or uncoordinated. So when you say I am clumsy, I think you mean that I am not explaing myself well, or not making sense.

4) I already gave you my comment. I agree with all of what SC said. Me and him being scum buddies is ridiculous. This is the post again:

.. I will probably never have a way of knowing anotherp layer's alignment, so any time I vote to imprint I'm hoping they are town. But them being a good player is also a necessary condition to them being imprinted. Because a bad townie with an imprint isnot very good for the town, but a bad scum with an imprint is still very bad for the town. So the ability level of the player imprinted makes a difference.

Ok, so you're saying the scheme was cooked up in the 40 minutes between Iam making that qualification and elvis asking me why I thought we would be in lylo after 1 night? It's possible, i guess, but I'd still say unlikely.

Essentially you are saying:

1) Elvis and I are scumbuddies.
2) I decided to obviously imprint my scumbuddy in my first posto f the game (the same one who happens to be the player I've played with most extensively on site.)
3) elvis and I seperately make comments that indicate we don't realise the scum has no night kill but in completely different ways. (This isn't an arranged plan yet, because if it was then elvis could have picked a buddy that didn't decide to imprint her first post to make comments that show the aren't aware of a NK.)
4) Iam clarifies this in thread.
5) Within 40 minutes of that post, elvis realises she could use this to our advantage and asks me why I thought we were in lylo.
6) I

ignore the question for plenty of posts and a day or two

, then elvis pushes the point and asks again, at which point I answer and she reveals her thoughts.

Now - all of that is possible, but I think obviously unlikely.

So, anyone who thinks me and SC are scum buddies should be able to defend how this is at all likely to happen, or present a different set of events that they think could have happened.

Anyone who is putting me and SC high on their scum list should be answering this post. Since you, lew, have FOSed me and SC, you should answer it.

[elvis_knits]

So, it's page 12 and nobody has more than 2 votes toward a lynch, and I don't think we've gotten a decent bandwagon going all game. I don't know what most people think on the idea of lynching vs. no-lynching, or if we should imprint or not and who/how many.

/wrists

[lewarcher82]

For what regards the answer to your question, elvis, I am not sure if you are both scum (see below): it is true that sc opening the very game with the imprint would have been crazy. But he surely had an answer ready, he could have said that he was just random imprinting as he waited for the game to take-off... It's a weapon that can work both ways.

Anyway, I get scumvibes from SC, I find his posts too aggressive towards Starbuck, and I think that his attempt to remind everyone of DN's scumminess without even trying to interact directly with DN is also pretty scummy.

I will make it clear: I think that he is scum, and this is more than a FoS, this is in fact my vote. The fact that I FoS elvis does not mean that I would vote her right now (she is attacking me and therefore we interact a lot). I can accept a scenario with SC as scum and elvis as town, where the apparent (but possible) buddying interaction is a mere coincidence.

----

fine, clumsy is not the right word. Sorry (

ESL!!!

). What I meant is that if the best argumentation is "How can I do different than this, since I know I am town?", it's like there's no argumentation at all.

[TheButtonmen]

Once finals are over (Oh blessed day) I need to go back and meta some people. Also the following keeps coming up and makes me kinda nervous as to what I'll find.

And on that note, if I didn't already know DN's meta is to post very curtly and anti-townly like this, I would have buried him ages ago.

Why are you nervous about what you'll find?

I find with meta's like Death Notes I find it allot harder to find connections / scumtells due to second guessing and not knowing how much to read into their reactions to pressure.

[elvis_knits]

For what regards the answer to your question, elvis, I am not sure if you are both scum (see below): it is true that sc opening the very game with the imprint would have been crazy. But he surely had an answer ready, he could have said that he was just random imprinting as he waited for the game to take-off... It's a weapon that can work both ways.

Anyway, I get scumvibes from SC, I find his posts too aggressive towards Starbuck, and I think that his attempt to remind everyone of DN's scumminess without even trying to interact directly with DN is also pretty scummy.

Why is aggressiveness scummy? I don't think that it is, so I want to know why you think it's bad.

What do you think of DN?

I will make it clear: I think that he is scum, and this is more than a FoS, this is in fact my vote. The fact that I FoS elvis does not mean that I would vote her right now (she is attacking me and therefore we interact a lot). I can accept a scenario with SC as scum and elvis as town, where the apparent (but possible) buddying interaction is a mere coincidence.

I'm not trying to attack you at this point, I'm trying to understand you better, and point out where I disagree with you and why.

fine, clumsy is not the right word. Sorry (

ESL!!!

). What I meant is that if the best argumentation is "How can I do different than this, since I know I am town?", it's like there's no argumentation at all.

I never said that though.

Starbuck was saying that I was being overbearing and arguing my point of view too forcefully.

Do you agree and do you think that is scummy?

My answer, the last few sentences which you dislike are this:

I'm not going to stop trying to convince people to help me do what I think is best. And perhaps I am slightly obnoxious at times. But it's not my way or the highway. I think we have to agree on something, even if it's not what I want. And that's what I encouraged us all to do earlier today.

I reject the idea that being aggressive or forcefull in your opinions is scum tell. I rather think that

criticising

someone for having strong opinions, is scummy.

[Plum]

The best part of all this is that your plan wouldn't even work, because I did actually consider potential game-breaking strategies when designing the setup, because I'm

not an idiot

. But I didn't want to say so, because I thought it might reveal setup info that I didn't want to reveal, so instead I've made a total mess of handling it when I could have just said that in the first place. Because I

am an idiot

.

Now, hows about you guys get on and play a game of mafia, and I'll get on and mod a game of mafia? Sound good?

A plot twist I totally called.

Ah, we come to EK's discussion of those who apparently didn't realize that the scumbags have not automatic NK. Funnily enough, SC's offhand statement about Lylo which suggested that he didn't know is more convincing of the fact than EK's indication thereof, though both seem probable enough indicators, so if we're right it just goes to show that occasionally reading isn't actually tech. Both of the players in question are intelligent enough to make sure they got the whole gamut of their Role PM if scum but it'd be normal enough to just glance at the scum PM in the thread if Town. I happen to dislike some of EK's later arguments (don't you think scum would have figured it out, especially with the QT is weaker when you notice that the Role PMs had been out for about half a day before the Mod clarified the fact in the thread. Even if all the scumbags had shown their faces in the scum QT by that point, it's not given that anyone would be spewing about the NK/lack thereof. I understand that EK claims she talks abut that stuff early and assumes others do too . . . which I guess I could/should check later). It remains probably, and though the deep paranoid part of me afraid of WIFOM feels nervous, rationally I kinda want to go along with it. The paranoid part of me has been right a good few times, though.

In other news, DeathNote continues to be scummy by misrepping and presenting a false dilemma in this post.

Wrong. There is no false dilemma in that post.

Wrong. Buttonmen and I indicated clearly that there are other useful potential imprints besides Cop for any strategy on the spectrum, from all-imprint to one-imprint. You insisted that there are only two real strategies: all imprint or one-imprint-get-a-Cop. Not true; it's not a dichotomy, not a choice between all or nothing, and EK wasn't advocating a no-imprint plan.

And, um, what the heck is Post 122?

A) There is no investigative imprints.
B) Imprinting has a chance to kill you.
C) Imprinting may change your alignment.
D) Scum can get imprinted by some method other then the vote.
E) Some imprints effect multiple people.

Or no Cop-type imprint is available until more than one Townie has been imprinted? There's likely a method to the madness - can you envision a scenario where only the third Townie to get an imprint would be able to get that power? I digress.

I originally thought my plan to imprint all would help town more then harm until the mod posted that scum did not have a night kill. Since then, I sorta gave up on my idea as it would mean giving scum their night kills which I thought they all ready had.

The Mod clarified this on page 1. You were pushing an imprint-all scenario until when? Check check - well, what did you mean by Post 57? From there and other places it certainly seems like you're advocating imprinting most if not all players. Post 57 was on Page 3. When you say you were in favor of voting everyone, you did mean that you were in favor of

imprinting

anyone. Were you not? You didn't sorta give up on the plan after the Mod clarified it. If you meant you stopped pushing it - you still liked it best even though you realized it gave scum the NKs they don't automatically have? You still continues to quietly advocate it and work according to it as a plan? WHY? All you are accomplishing is confidence in my early vote.

About SC's EK imprint vote is kinda funny in retrospect not merely in the what-is-more-likely-a-coincidence thing but that it indicates how we had next to nothing in the way of a random-imprint stage.

Vala, if you don't believe SC is faking it at all but you were somewhat suspicious of Elvis, why wouldn't you vote to imprint SC?

Again, when we started I thought that giving the scum an imprint wasn't particularly bad - all you had to do was keep imprinting the same person and whether scum or town they'd have a permanent ability.

I thought the same as well before I saw it clarified in the thread.

Lynching gives us information where as imprinting probably won't, also the mafia wouldn't NK tonight even if they got a power that allows NK'ing they would just claim to been a doctor or some such.

I disagree to a degree on both counts. Imprinting information probably

will

be useful - in the long term but less so in the short term. Depending on how many imprints we give out and how gutsy the scumbags are, the scum might NK tonight if they can.

Self-imprinting theory: I was thinking about this before the game and with all the blabbering away during the first day of play I forgot:

Imprint: Plum

Because why the hell not. In theory it's not a Towntell nor a scumtell, because it advances your wincon no matter what it is. So now we're going to discuss why the hell not and see whether there's a legit reason not to do so:

I am of the opinion that no one should vote to imprint themselves.

In theory it's just about the same difference; it's in everyone's favor to get an imprint today, scum or Town (I don't actually feel that a poor Townie getting an imprint would be as bad as SC suggests, though I see where he's coming from). Push comes to shove, scum will probably be the most nervous/twitchy around this sort of thing - whether to self-imprint or not (just like they'll act differently around whether to vote to imprint a buddy &c.) - so now I see that it's an info mine - where scum may act noticeably differently than Town just by virtue of being scum.

I just think it looks too eager.

So that quote makes me feel less pretty okay about Vala than previously, seems to be coming from the scum motivation, which is to look Townie/avoid looking scummy (a secondary motive for a Townie). Aside from that, aren't the fractions 7/11 if you don't self-imprint-vote but 6/11 if you do? I need to parse these numbers; it feels like the goats-and-car mental-mathematical illusion.

Like I said before, you're not necessarily wrong; I tend to play cautious and paranoid early on to the point where it almost becomes a flaw and sometimes need a voice of reason or two to keep me in check. >_<

As someone who used to be a more paranoid player in general I sympathize, and this alleviates my concern at the above quote of yours somewhat. And as EK pointds out, your play

has

been a bit paranoid, so in this game you're consistent . It's true that EK's reason is a bit different (she's arguing that she's objectively more likely to be town [probably] [imprints self because of town-tell] whereas basic theory is based on the fact that subjectively you know it'll help your faction [imprint self based on null tell because any player in this game benefits his/her faction by getting imprinted]). Not willing to say it's really scummy, but it is different.

But then again, if you were at I-1 wouldn't you self-imprint-hammer. Everyone? Scumbags, search your hearts too. Yeah, I thought so: everyone's hand should be up. So what's the difference between that and starting out with it? Like nothing. It's a personal choice, one which is in everyone's favor to make . . . and we end up level-or-so if everyone does it. I don't see a real

downside

exactly, because you start feeling that less of a majority is needed but that's really not the case, it's just who you include exclude from the majority.

Lim agrees with my basic theory viewpoint, I see.

Lew's first post is a bit useless, but it looks like he was short on time, and I'm not in the mood to call that kettle black, so judgment is reserved, and he

was

busy, wasn't he.
DN's Unimprint vote is one of the few internally consistent and decent things he's said yet.

Now that Starbuck comes in I start rereading bits of page 1 and feel like Messiah's first post is kinda non-committal . Starbuck's first post feels nice on a gut level, so it's a big ringer to see SC's attack on her.

First of all, though I appreciate noting connections I pretty much hate it when people call scumteams Day 1 before anyone has flipped at all. I can't tell: SC, is your Starbuck case dependent on Zwets-scum or vice-versa?

I interpreted that post as a less serious "These guys are both scummy" kind of thing, but I may be wrong.

Re: Elvis calling Butoonmen and DN scum early: I agree.

Lew seems sane about approaching the mechanics of the game but not especially helpful or insightful. Judgment reserved again.

[quote="Starbuck"There was plenty of ideas and theories being thrown around at the time of your vote on DeathNote. I agree that not everyone should be imprinted and he sees now why this is a bad idea, but why must it only be after YOU point out that its anti-town or scummy? You are making this situation to be entirely about you, when it's not.[/quote]

Um, what? The point would be that it was pointed out at all that it was anti-Town. It was Elvis, but the point wasn't about Elvis saying that at all, it's just the fact of the situation.

It seems as though you are only voting for DeathNote and that you view TheButtonmen as scummy because they disagree with you and vice versa. Right now, according to you, neither one of them could possibly be town because they don't/didn't agree with you. Now, in this last post, you are saying that TheButtonmen is no longer scum in your eyes, but town. How quickly you change your tune.

Okay this here is just . . . wrong. EK just explained what she really thought, elaborations which are reasonable and not scummy. And not those. I could recap, but you basically just misrepped EK's positions to make them seem weak just after EK explained what her real positions were.

So maybe SC's ideas aren't as crazy as I thought at first .

Starbuck then ridicules EK's confirming thing, which I'm leaning towards believing is well-intentioned and suchlike in order to ridicule her entire position. Classy.

I'm being kicked off the computer but y'all deserve better than me making you wait for the whole thing. I think there's some stuff that I meant to fill in.look up before I posted but I can't bother with that now.

[SerialClergyman]

Seriously good posting. Despite calling my ideas crazy. Or perhaps because of that . Crazy but true is my speciality.

To be honest, my case against DN dies if Starbuck is scum and vice versa. My main point about Starbuck is that she's acting bizarrey towards Deathnote. Can't see much reason for scum --> town unless it's a weird way of buddying, so I'm sticking with scum --> scum.

[SerialClergyman]

Zzz..

EBWOP: My case against DN dies if starbuck is

scum

town.

[Pug89]

So DN's plan is no good, but the comment by pug in post #89 is circular. I does not discuss the features of the three options, but he just sez that proposing to eliminate one of them (imprinting only some players) is scummy. I think this is just a logic fail, but since you want me to comment the first 5 pages, please explain why.

elvis already addressed this but, both of the plans DN proposed(all powered or none) were more beneficial to scum compared to the third option (only imprinting a few). Imprinting everyone would give all scum an ability that could be useful to them later in the game and not imprinting anyone deprives the town of potentially useful information.

For what regards the answer to your question, elvis, I am not sure if you are both scum (see below): it is true that sc opening the very game with the imprint would have been crazy. But he surely had an answer ready, he could have said that he was just random imprinting as he waited for the game to take-off... It's a weapon that can work both ways.

Actually when I asked him about it he said he imprinted elvis solely because of her playing ability.

I disagree to a degree on both counts. Imprinting information probably will be useful - in the long term but less so in the short term. Depending on how many imprints we give out and how gutsy the scumbags are, the scum might NK tonight if they can.

I don't think scum will NK tonight, if they get the ability at all it probably won't be used until later in the game when there is a smaller pool of potential players who could have retained the ability.

[Vala Mal Doran]

How voting Buttonman was a way to hunt scum is sumthin I dun get

Seriously? I've already explained this. I wanted to

actually play the game

, not cheat our way to an easy win. If someone reacted suspiciously to my vote, that just would have been icing on the cake, but I wasn't really expecting to accomplish much other than communicating how frustrating Button was being to people who actually wanted to play the way the game was intended.

Counterargument, if u can, please.

I've already conceded my opinion's defeat and voted to imprint myself along with everyone else. What more is there to say?

FoS: SC, Elvis, Vala

Nice OMGUS. -_-

We have no idea what imprintings really are. I prefer to stick to what we know.

It's day 1; we don't know anything. This is a suggestion that is anything but constructive.

I find his posts too aggressive towards Starbuck, and I think that his attempt to remind everyone of DN's scumminess without even trying to interact directly with DN is also pretty scummy.

This is lewarcher's first semi-decent content so far, imo. Finally,

finally

I get an answer to my question of why he considers SC scummy. Interesting that he wouldn't give me an answer, only elvis.

I find with meta's like Death Notes I find it allot harder to find connections / scumtells due to second guessing and not knowing how much to read into their reactions to pressure.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

why wouldn't you vote to imprint SC?

TBH, paranoia. I still wasn't so sure about my read on him.

The quote about "eagerness" in relation to voting to imprint oneself was a reference to how I viewed Elvis' self-imprint post. Again though, I've since dropped the point.

Sorry I can't post anything more thought-provoking today; I just feel absolutely braindead right now. Hopefully I'll have something more insightful to say tomorrow.

[iamausername]

-=farside22 replaces jasonT1981=-

[SerialClergyman]

Welcome farside.

[lewarcher82]

all right peeps, I have tried to catch up and post content but it appears I really played poorly and missed some points.

For example SC's question to mod about stacking powers; this is actually stronger an argument against the case on him than the simple WIFOM about him and elvis.

Anyway, there is no way I can keep playing this game. To make a paraphrase of Vala's post, I do not have 4 hours a day to read all this content. Therefore I apologize and

ask to be replaced

.

[farside22]

Hi everyone
/confirm
Just finished page 5 but I have to go to work so I want to put my notes that I have now before I leave this computer and go to the other.

Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.

This is wrong. And scummy.

There are 4 scum and 8 town. You're making it sound like town is in the minority. We are twice as strong at the scum right now.

Why is this scummy? Seriously I think it's boring, it isn't mafia but how is it scummy?

Seriously, if we're just going to dice roll and imprint one person repeatedly, no-lynching for days on end, waiting for the one person to draw a cop role and hit scum, well then I would ask for replacement right now because you don't actually need players for that and it's not going to be fun.

Not a fan of this post by EK

I have a major problem with Buttonman's plan.

It sounds boring as hell.

Just sayin'.

Why? Talk about saying nothing at all here

You didn't have the step where you lynched the person with the power. And I PM'd the mod a while ago about it. And I don't think you have considered naive or paranoid results.

And it doesn't lead to a worthwhile game.

Having said that, voting you for trying to break the setup is scummy as.

Again how is a better then average % for town winning scummy?

I really don't like that both SC and Elvis imprint each other too much buddy, buddy for me. I don't care if you know someone in the game giving an imprint without a reason is just as scummy to me as doing a vote without a reason.

Will finish this later

[elvis_knits]

Woooo farside!

I like Plum's post. Everything is very reasonable. I am totally fine with her viewpoint on me imprinting me and SC -- the gist of it that I got is that she can see how I would feel that way and that I probably am right, but it's not enough of a sure thing for her to feel comfortable going with it. That is the sort of reaction I was expecting from people who didn't want to go with it. Because my reasoning does make sense. I happen to think that the chances of it being a gambit or a PM misunderstanding are low enough for me to take a chance on SC, but I can understand if others do not think the chances are quite low enough and they would rather be conservative. I understand that. Part of why I am willing to make that leap of faith on SC is probably because I had the same misunderstanding as he did and since I did it as a town, it more makes me think he did under the same circumstances. But none of the rest of you were in my position, and you are in the position of having to make a small leap on two people whereas I am only making it on one. So I can understand it being a little harder for others.

Plum's reaction seems pro-town to me.

Some of the other reactions I got from people have not seemed pro-town. They have seemed like panicked attempts to stop the town from confirming two town players.

Here's my current thoughts on people:

ALASKA (SerialClergyman) - town (you all know why I think so!)
ARIZONA (Starbuck) - scum (but she always reads like that to me)
COLORADO (Messiah) - leaning scum (hasn't originated ideas, follower)
FLORIDA (Limerickx) - town (his conservative plan seems pro-town, but I want to see him scum hunting more)
GEORGIA (Plum) - town (come on, everything she says makes sense)
HAWAII (TheButtonmen) - town (breaking strategy seems designed to help town, no matter how much we butt heads)
IOWA (lewarcher82) - neutral (I have a hard time reading ESL players because sometimes I dismiss scummy things as language problems, looking forward to getting a better read on the replacement)
KANSAS (jasonT1981 farside22) - null (jason posted nothing)
MONTANA (Pug89) - neutral (posted some good things, feel like pug is sitting on the sidelines a little though, gives me the feeling of maybe letting townies fight? I think pug and messiah have agreed a lot which worries me slightly)
NEVADA (DeathNote) - scum (Anti-town all game. I looked into his meta and saw the game where he was recently modkilled... makes me think he is not a very responsible player and prone to impulsive plays no matter his allignment. He may look scummy no matter what, but the things he is pushing for are so tilted to scum's favor that I think he's scum.)
OHIO (Vala Mal Doran) - neutral/town (some of her votes have not been great like on buttonmen, but overall I do have a gut town read on her)
VIRGINIA (elvis_knits) - town!

[elvis_knits]

@ farside, I've been over all the issues surrounding me and SC, so I think you will see my explanation in thread the more you read. If you still want me to respond after you finish reading, I'll say it again.

[DeathNote]

Why should my meta not be consistent? People are too use to conformity on this site and policy lynch any suggestions that are different from what they are used too. I am one who believes and fresh ideas and radical thinking so try to take that into consideration before kill me off. (goes for every game)

[TheButtonmen]

Why should my meta not be consistent? People are too use to conformity on this site and policy lynch any suggestions that are different from what they are used too. I am one who believes and fresh ideas and radical thinking so try to take that into consideration before kill me off. (goes for every game)

Who suggested a policy lynch? You have 2 votes on you....

[elvis_knits]

I actually am not in favor of policy lynches, and I am not suggesting one on you deathnote. I think that you are impulsive no matter your allignment, which suggests you're probably a little more transparent as scum.

Fresh ideas and radical thinking are great, but the ideas you are bringing to the table favor scum. The fact that you never voted to unimprint everyone, supports the idea that you would still like to imprint as many people as possible. And the people you are unimprinting doesn't seem like you're doing it because YOU think they're scum, but because other people are talking like that person might be scum. So anyone who gets a little heat you unimprint them. Shows you're not thinking for yourself and are just following the pack in terms of who to suspect. That is scummy. Nobody is trying to policy lynch you.

[DeathNote]

I actually am not in favor of policy lynches, and I am not suggesting one on you deathnote. I think that you are impulsive no matter your allignment, which suggests you're probably a little more transparent as scum.

Fresh ideas and radical thinking are great, but the ideas you are bringing to the table favor scum. The fact that you never voted to unimprint everyone, supports the idea that you would still like to imprint as many people as possible. And the people you are unimprinting doesn't seem like you're doing it because YOU think they're scum, but because other people are talking like that person might be scum. So anyone who gets a little heat you unimprint them. Shows you're not thinking for yourself and are just following the pack in terms of who to suspect. That is scummy. Nobody is trying to policy lynch you.

Policy lynch...

[elvis_knits]

How is that a policy lynch?

[DeathNote]

How is that a policy lynch?

Because I know how this will turn out. My tactic right now is called, appeal to emotion.