Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[Pug89]

I'm down with EK's plan. I doubt she came up with the gambit, waited for a town player to do the same thing she was planning to do, asked the question twice before TRAP SPRUNG and then claimed herself in the rush. I think she's genuine.

If you are both scum though you can communicate during the day outside of the game.

When we started I knew a lot lss about imprinting other than it would be useful in the hands of good protown players. I have limited experience with the people here, I know I've played with Plum but only briefly. But I've played one long and great game with EK and know her to be an excellent player and also feel I have an edge in reading her.

This reasoning seems a little weak to me. While your previous experience with elvis may give you an advantage in reading her you voted to imprint her the first post of the game. At that point you couldn't possibly have any idea as to her alignment.

[SerialClergyman]

Again, when we started I thought that giving the scum an imprint wasn't particularly bad - all you had to do was keep imprinting the same person and whether scum or town they'd have a permanent ability.

It was only after Iam clarified that there was an advantage to scum being imprinted twice that I realised we had to be more careful with it.

You're correct about day communication, I didn't realise. But if it was an elaborate day planned gambit, elvis could have picked any other scum buddy that hadn't already imprinted her and do it with them, she didn'th ave to pick me.

As for my reasons for picking elvis - that's it I'm afraid, that' just why I chose her. And it's not just that I could read her better than most, (hopefully) it's also that I know she's a good player and would use it well.

[Pug89]

As for my reasons for picking elvis - that's it I'm afraid, that' just why I chose her. And it's not just that I could read her better than most, (hopefully) it's also that I know she's a good player and would use it well.

That relies on her being town though, which at that point you had now way of knowing.

You're correct about day communication, I didn't realise. But if it was an elaborate day planned gambit, elvis could have picked any other scum buddy that hadn't already imprinted her and do it with them, she didn'th ave to pick me.

Actually no, you were the only other player to make a comment indicating you thought scum had a NK before the mod clarified that point.

[Vala Mal Doran]

@Pug: Do you think one or both of elvis or SC are likely scum? If so, is there a reason you haven't put a vote down?

[SerialClergyman]

.. I will probably never have a way of knowing anotherp layer's alignment, so any time I vote to imprint I'm hoping they are town. But them being a good player is also a necessary condition to them being imprinted. Because a bad townie with an imprint isnot very good for the town, but a bad scum with an imprint is still very bad for the town. So the ability level of the player imprinted makes a difference.

Ok, so you're saying the scheme was cooked up in the 40 minutes between Iam making that qualification and elvis asking me why I thought we would be in lylo after 1 night? It's possible, i guess, but I'd still say unlikely.

Essentially you are saying:

1) Elvis and I are scumbuddies.
2) I decided to obviously imprint my scumbuddy in my first posto f the game (the same one who happens to be the player I've played with most extensively on site.)
3) elvis and I seperately make comments that indicate we don't realise the scum has no night kill but in completely different ways. (This isn't an arranged plan yet, because if it was then elvis could have picked a buddy that didn't decide to imprint her first post to make comments that show the aren't aware of a NK.)
4) Iam clarifies this in thread.
5) Within 40 minutes of that post, elvis realises she could use this to our advantage and asks me why I thought we were in lylo.
6) I

ignore the question for plenty of posts and a day or two

, then elvis pushes the point and asks again, at which point I answer and she reveals her thoughts.

Now - all of that is possible, but I think obviously unlikely.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Or, elvis is scum without you, and if she uses your trust to her advantage and makes you look a little worse in the process of getting herself imprinted, well, that's a double-win, isn't it?

I think that's a fair bit more likely; it's certainly enough for me to not want her imprinted.

[SerialClergyman]

Well, that's a different argument, but yes, this is possible.

I actually checked because her question to the mod where she implies her lack of knowledge about a scum NK was AFTER my question, and I thought she might have just used the opportunity to ask a redundant question so she could get that little tidbit in.

But actually it was a simulpost, her post was 4 mins after mine and quite long.

I can't rule it out, but to be honest, it's more concrete than most other reads you're likely to get on D1.

[Pug89]

.. I will probably never have a way of knowing anotherp layer's alignment, so any time I vote to imprint I'm hoping they are town. But them being a good player is also a necessary condition to them being imprinted. Because a bad townie with an imprint isnot very good for the town, but a bad scum with an imprint is still very bad for the town. So the ability level of the player imprinted makes a difference.

My problem with your vote to imprint elvis is at the time your vote was entirely based on player ability and didn't take into account alignment at all.

Ok, so you're saying the scheme was cooked up in the 40 minutes between Iam making that qualification and elvis asking me why I thought we would be in lylo after 1 night? It's possible, i guess, but I'd still say unlikely.

If you are both scum, I don't think this was planned then, but something taken advantage of later.

@Pug: Do you think one or both of elvis or SC are likely scum? If so, is there a reason you haven't put a vote down?

The whole attempt to verify them as town on what I think is weak reasoning bothers me as well as SC's trust of elvis from the very first post of the game. If only one of them is scum I think it is probably elvis but it's still early. I generally don't rush to vote on Day 1. It has only been 2 days since the game started and there are still some players who have yet to post so I probably won't vote until everyone has posted.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Fair enough, Pug, though I don't think there's any harm in placing down votes early and often.

SC, what do you mean by your last sentence? It's kind of worded awkwardly.

[SerialClergyman]

I've reached the point of dimished returns talking about this I think.

To clarify for Vala - I meant that since there are no flips, it's very hard to get a solid read on D1. Information like strong ignorance or strong knowledge of setup is more concrete than someone who 'looks' town, in my opinion.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #3=-

Nevada (3) - Virginia, Colorado, Georgia
Montana (1) - Alaska
Virginia (1) - Ohio

Not Voting (7) - Arizona, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Nevada

7 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #3=-

Alaska (3) - Alaska, Nevada, Virginia
Virginia (3) - Alaska, Nevada, Virginia
Arizona (1) - Nevada
Colorado (1) - Nevada
Florida (1) - Nevada
Georgia (1) - Nevada
Hawaii (1) - Nevada
Iowa (1) - Nevada
Kansas (1) - Nevada
Montana (1) - Nevada
Nevada (1) - Nevada
Ohio (1) - Nevada

7 to imprint.

[Limerickx]

Imprint: Vala Mal Doran
Imprint: Limerickx

Got some catchup reading to do, it seems.

I still disagree with lynching today, as scum don't have a NK unless we give one out. I just don't see a reason to take the chance when there wont be a kill (and if there IS a kill, it would be from one of the players we give and imprint to)

[TheButtonmen]

Lynching gives us information where as imprinting probably won't, also the mafia wouldn't NK tonight even if they got a power that allows NK'ing they would just claim to been a doctor or some such.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Lim, I'm flattered by you voting to imprint me and all, but I question you voting to imprint yourself. I have had a town read on you, but I had a town read on elvis too, prior to her so eagerly voting to imprint herself. I am of the opinion that no one should vote to imprint themselves.

Not to make you second-guess yourself, but why do you think I am worthy of being imprinted? What makes you so sure I'm town?

[DeathNote]

Unimprint: Elvis

[TheButtonmen]

Why unimprint Elvis, or rather why just Elvis seening as your still imprinting the 11 other players?

[lewarcher82]

naturally we will always kno who got a special power on a night, so there will be no real "claiming", but rather a "power declaration" LoL

sounds fun, I will post more tonite

[DeathNote]

Why unimprint Elvis, or rather why just Elvis seening as your still imprinting the 11 other players?

I am taking this the opposite approach from everyone else. Instead of imprinting who I think is town, I will unimprint whoever starts appearing scummy. Right now, Elvis is not someone whom I would like to give a power. Doesn't mean he is scum, just means I have doubts as to whether he is town.

[Messiah]

VMD, why shouldn't we vote to imprint ourselves?

[elvis_knits]

Why unimprint Elvis, or rather why just Elvis seening as your still imprinting the 11 other players?

I am taking this the opposite approach from everyone else. Instead of imprinting who I think is town, I will unimprint whoever starts appearing scummy. Right now, Elvis is not someone whom I would like to give a power. Doesn't mean he is scum, just means I have doubts as to whether he is town.

And why am I scummy?

And if I'm scummy, why aren't you voting to lynch me?

I think the fact that you're not voting to lynch me, but don't want me imprinted is a big tip off here that you don't actually think I'm scum.

And the fact that you didn't vote to unimprint SC at the same time does not make sense. If you think my reasoning over me and SC is flawed or scummy, then I think you would unimprint both of us. Choosing only me to unimprint doesn't make sense here.

[Vala Mal Doran]

VMD, why shouldn't we vote to imprint ourselves?

I just think it looks too eager. I understand that it can be argued that one only knows one's own towniness, etc etc, but if people don't vote to imprint themselves it takes 7/11 people to imprint someone rather than 7/12 and I like that majority better. Then there's the fact that if all of the scumteam votes to imprint one of their own, that's four votes, which means it only takes three unwitting town to make a powered-up scum. I'd prefer to make that number four by keeping anyone from voting themselves, and give ourselves more of a margin of error. (And yes, I'm aware scum

probably

wouldn't be that stupid. If they thought they could get away with it though, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance.)

DN looks like he's just parroting me. Not cool. Unfortunately I have to go to work now, so I don't have time to blast him to hell and back for not forming his own opinions.

[lewarcher82]

Guys I am still here, but I am afraid that at 10 pm after finishing the layout of my phd thesis 7 pages are too much to read... hope I'll catch up tomorrow.

[DeathNote]

I already explained the reason why I unimprinted. The reason is not because I think you are scum, but because I don't think you are town. I simply just don't want to give you a power tonight. The reason I still want to imprint SC is because it was you who developed your flawed conclusion that both of you must be town, not him.

[Messiah]

Wait, do you think everyone other than ek is town?

[DeathNote]

Wait, do you think everyone other than ek is town?

No. I think that everyone else is more town at the moment.