Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[Josh Lyman]

@Josh L: You start your last post looking as though you were going to get behind a Torque lynch, yet in the same post, you switch it around and Vote eleven after asking him a question. I would like you to explain why you voted eleven in this instance. What does voting him accomplish at this point? Basically, the same question I had for Torq and others above. Also, if you just had a thought in the middle of a post, why not erase the thought before it? What was your strategy in posting one thought but casting your vote on another thought (which is a question you didn't wait to be answered)?

What question didn't I wait to be answered? I'm not clear on that bit.

I didn't erase my thought because I wanted on record my reasoning for moving my vote off of Torq.

I am not sure how to explain my reasoning for actually using my vote, as we seem to have a fundamental difference of opinion as to how to use a tool at our disposal (see my previous post).

[nhammen]

Vote Count

Debonair Danny DiPietro (4): Sweep, muh316, el simo, eleven knives in a throat
eleven knives in a throat (2): Scott Brosius, Josh Lyman
Torqez (2): Debonair Danny DiPietro, julienvonwolfe
muh316 (1): Wulfy
julienvonwolfe (1): PaltryExcuse
Chinaman (1): Torqez

Not voting

(1): Chinaman

with 12 players remaining, it takes 7 to lynch

[Chinaman]

@Chinaman: Please explain to me what good a tool is if it isn't used. Also, can you tell me what events would have to fall into place in order for you to cast a vote?

Also, please tell me your thoughts on RVS and potential reasons for avoiding same.

I personally believe that tossing a vote around makes it less effective as when you vote someone and put pressure on them, then vote someone else not long after, it reduces the meaning of the vote and the pressure you wish to apply. I say this because if someone has voted for 3 people, then finds something I say to be worth a vote and then they vote me, I'm not as worried because that vote is probably coming off me and going onto someone else in the near future. I'm not saying voting is scummy or even voting lots of people on the same day is scummy, I'm just saying it reduces it's effectiveness. I will vote for someone when I think they are scum.

As for RVS, I think it's stupid. It's a necessary evil if you will. I posted a post during it random voting everyone (which you can't really do) because in my eyes, it doesn't matter who you vote for in RVS. That's just me.

As for your vote on eleven:

Wait. Just had a thought.

eleven,

why are defending Torq so vehemently?

vote: eleven

You have a thought, ask eleven why he is defending Torq and then vote him. It just seemed like you don't really care if he answer it or not. This is coming from my above belief about voting mind you, so I am just wondering if you want him to answer you question and if so, was this a pressure vote to make him answer? Do you believe eleven is scum?

[nhammen]

Searching for a replacement for Sweep

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We are not exactly waiting for scummy behavior from Torq. He's admitted he's bored with Mafia, and if he's

that

bored, why enter a game? Why stay in a game? Why admit it in-thread? This is just too unusual to be pro-town.

I guess it is illogical for Torqez to decide to play a game if he finds it boring. But I still have no idea how in the hell that's an alignment-influenced decision, seeing as how he made it before he had an alignment.

What in the world are you talking about? Role PMs went out November 25th, Torquez made his comment on November 30th. He absolutely had his alignment available to him and thus your baffling and incorrect argument falls on it's face and I'm wondering how you could get that wrong?

[Torqez]

@Torque: Do you think your vote is a powerful tool and if so, do you think keeping track of it is important?

I don't get your question? Ofcourse voting is a powerful tool, and ofcourse keeping track of it is important.

@Torqez: I get the sense you are letting DDD's pressure get to you a little bit. You seem rational in your defense, but why are you only defending at this point? The only vote on you is from DDD and it seems as though you have defended yourself well, but where is the pro-town behavior? Where are your questions that you need answered to pursue your scumhunt?

lol he's not getting to me in the least bit. I'm rational in my defense, because I have nothing to hide. I call it as I see it. He has an issue towards me, so thats what I post about. Just like others are thinking, there seems to be a lack of content this game (or people struggling to get out of RVS) and therefore little else to post about. Just take a look at JVWs post here for eg: This definitely looks odd and from a player who ICs in newbie games, I'd expect a lot more out of in the way of bringing others to talk and get the game going.

[Scott Brosius]

China: I think keeping track of your vote is an extremely important asset, especially since the majority of town is only armed with their vote

Vote: Torquez

He always seems to be around to respond to accusations, but nothing else.

[eleven knives in a throat]

Unfortunately something's come up and I won't be able to play this game. I'm very sorry

[Chinaman]

@Torque: Do you think your vote is a powerful tool and if so, do you think keeping track of it is important?

I don't get your question? Ofcourse voting is a powerful tool, and ofcourse keeping track of it is important.

@Torqez: I get the sense you are letting DDD's pressure get to you a little bit. You seem rational in your defense, but why are you only defending at this point? The only vote on you is from DDD and it seems as though you have defended yourself well, but where is the pro-town behavior? Where are your questions that you need answered to pursue your scumhunt?

lol he's not getting to me in the least bit. I'm rational in my defense, because I have nothing to hide. I call it as I see it. He has an issue towards me, so thats what I post about. Just like others are thinking, there seems to be a lack of content this game (or people struggling to get out of RVS) and therefore little else to post about. Just take a look at JVWs post here for eg: This definitely looks odd and from a player who ICs in newbie games, I'd expect a lot more out of in the way of bringing others to talk and get the game going.

Well Torq, the reason I asked about your vote is because I think we are out of RVS yet you still have your vote on me. Is there nobody in this game who has done something scummy from your point of view? Were you keeping track of your vote? Do you have a reason to vote me at this time?

Also, if there is a lack of content, you are equally to blame for this. All you have done thus far is defended yourself from DDD and nothing else. Are you waiting for others to build cases and produce content?

I will also have to say that I agree with Scott's sentiments about you thus far. I think you have defended yourself from DDD, but have done little else in the way of hunting for scum.

Vote: Torquez

Though I don't buy the reason's put forth by DDD for his vote, I will say that scum tend to defend and jump on wagons where as town tend to defend and hunt for the real scum. As I have said before, you complain of a lack of content yet refuse to produce any yourself. This is a small scumtell IMO since scum-you doesn't want to be the person building a mislynch but instead want to be able to jump on a bandwagon of a mislynch hence your lack of hunting for scum and/or producing content.

[Wulfy]

This game is so boring. The only interesting thing is DDD vs Torqez, and I don't have any reads on them either way.

The other players need to chime in.

Thanks for fixing the problem by stating the obvious.

What do you mean there is not much to discuss? How is this different from other games?

In my other games, a strong discussion usually began with one person talking about no lynch(which i did) after in one human day we would put in about 4 pages a day.

You've gotta be yiffing kidding me. Why not try a new approach and analyze the existing discussion instead of playing from the sidelines. From my experience, the main event is more fun than being unheard.

Town are more likely to flake than play a game they’re cold on, scum is more likely to smother a game in non-participation even if they’re cold on the game.

Do you have any numbers to back this up? I doubt flaking rates are noticeably different between town and scum.

Torquez opened the game making pre-emptive excuses for lazy scum behavior, instead of waiting for it to happen and damaging the game we should lynch them instead.

We should lynch him now instead of waiting for scum behavior? How can that possibly be a good idea?

We are not exactly waiting for scummy behavior from Torq. He's admitted he's bored with Mafia, and if he's

that

bored, why enter a game? Why stay in a game? Why admit it in-thread? This is just too unusual to be pro-town.

I know I said he's been more active, so I moved my vote, but --

Wait. Just had a thought.

eleven,

why are defending Torq so vehemently?

vote: eleven

Anti-town isn't necessarily scum.

Well, partly to see what comes of it and partly to try and inject some life into this game:

unvote, vote: Torqez

That's an awful idea because you're obviously blindly following the heaviest wagon. As a result:

Unvote; Vote julien

*I realize China has a legitmate point on Torq now*

[Torqez]

Well Torq, the reason I asked about your vote is because I think we are out of RVS yet you still have your vote on me. Is there nobody in this game who has done something scummy from your point of view? Were you keeping track of your vote? Do you have a reason to vote me at this time?

Thats very convenient. Double standards on your part? Just like you state that you havn't found anyone to vote (prior to this post of yours) and don't like tossing around votes, I too don't vote anybody for no reason.

For this reason I havn't felt I needed to vote for someone (ie found them particularly scummy) nor have i felt a need to unvote off you.

Ironic that the same defense you use for not voting earlier, is the same reason you vote for me now.

Also ironic that you pin me for lack of contribution to the game, when theres been numerous others doing the same thing.

I will also have to say that I agree with Scott's sentiments about you thus far. I think you have defended yourself from DDD, but have done little else in the way of hunting for scum.
Vote: Torquez

How interesting that you'd stick me for no contribution, yet you're agreeing with a person without even reading them in ISO. Yes, Scott himself has had excellent contribution to this game.

And I find it quite stupid that through your own admittance you say that RVS is stupid, and me even saying that we're struggling to get out of it, yet you vote me for not 'scumhunting' out of it.

Love your logic.

Unvote

my RVS vote.

Vote: Chinaman

with reasons stated.

There, happy?

[julienvonwolfe]

Wulfy, mind elaborating on how I was 'blindly following the heaviest wagon'? What do you mean by 'heaviest'?

[Chinaman]

Well Torq, the reason I asked about your vote is because I think we are out of RVS yet you still have your vote on me. Is there nobody in this game who has done something scummy from your point of view? Were you keeping track of your vote? Do you have a reason to vote me at this time?

Thats very convenient. Double standards on your part? Just like you state that you havn't found anyone to vote (prior to this post of yours) and don't like tossing around votes, I too don't vote anybody for no reason.

For this reason I havn't felt I needed to vote for someone (ie found them particularly scummy) nor have i felt a need to unvote off you.

Ironic that the same defense you use for not voting earlier, is the same reason you vote for me now.

Also ironic that you pin me for lack of contribution to the game, when theres been numerous others doing the same thing.

I will also have to say that I agree with Scott's sentiments about you thus far. I think you have defended yourself from DDD, but have done little else in the way of hunting for scum.
Vote: Torquez

How interesting that you'd stick me for no contribution, yet you're agreeing with a person without even reading them in ISO. Yes, Scott himself has had excellent contribution to this game.

And I find it quite stupid that through your own admittance you say that RVS is stupid, and me even saying that we're struggling to get out of it, yet you vote me for not 'scumhunting' out of it.

Love your logic.

Unvote

my RVS vote.

Vote: Chinaman

with reasons stated.

There, happy?

The reason I asked is so you would know where your vote is. It's usually polite to unvote when RVS ends if you don't have anyone to vote for scummy reasons. I personally think you just didn't know or care where it was until I pointed it out. Oh, and the difference is, I didn't have my vote on anyone till you where as you kept yours from RVS because...oh I know, you don't care who it's on as long as that person is town.

Also, if there is a lack of content, you are

equally

to blame for this

Show me how this quote is "pinning anything on you at all. What are you trying to do, strawman here?

Ok, your next point about Scott just sealed it for me. I personally think it's interesting that he has contributed more and scumhunted more in his short limited posts than you have done up until this OMGUS vote of yours! Where have you done anything at all to hunt for scum? I'm sure you think this post of yours is hunting for scum, but all it really is is OMGUS as stated before.

Before I comment on the last part of your post where you talk about RVS, I would like to know what page you saw us switch from RVS to Hunting for scum.

[PaltryExcuse]

Sorry for being non-existant these past couple days. School got the best of me, and I will catch up after some sleep.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unfortunately something's come up and I won't be able to play this game. I'm very sorry

Would the thing that came up be you just blatantly making things up and me catching you and so now you flee in terror?

[Chinaman]

Don't be mean DDD.

Question for you all: Do you think that when someone replaces out, there role is more likely town or scum? Do you think a town PR or a scum role would more likely keep someone in the game even if they had RL stuff come up and couldn't post as often as they'd like? This may be a theory question, but in my experience, I've never seen a scum player replace out. My games are very limited compared to some, but I think the odds are in the favor of someone replacing out being town vs scum. No free passes to eleven's replacement, but.....

[Josh Lyman]

@Chinaman: Please explain to me what good a tool is if it isn't used. Also, can you tell me what events would have to fall into place in order for you to cast a vote?

Also, please tell me your thoughts on RVS and potential reasons for avoiding same.

I personally believe that tossing a vote around makes it less effective as when you vote someone and put pressure on them, then vote someone else not long after, it reduces the meaning of the vote and the pressure you wish to apply. I say this because if someone has voted for 3 people, then finds something I say to be worth a vote and then they vote me, I'm not as worried because that vote is probably coming off me and going onto someone else in the near future. I'm not saying voting is scummy or even voting lots of people on the same day is scummy, I'm just saying it reduces it's effectiveness. I will vote for someone when I think they are scum.

As for RVS, I think it's stupid. It's a necessary evil if you will. I posted a post during it random voting everyone (which you can't really do) because in my eyes, it doesn't matter who you vote for in RVS. That's just me.

As for your vote on eleven:

Wait. Just had a thought.

eleven,

why are defending Torq so vehemently?

vote: eleven

You have a thought, ask eleven why he is defending Torq and then vote him. It just seemed like you don't really care if he answer it or not. This is coming from my above belief about voting mind you, so I am just wondering if you want him to answer you question and if so, was this a pressure vote to make him answer? Do you believe eleven is scum?

I do want him (or replacement) to answer the question; although the replacement may not be able to, so I may have to ignore that, unfortunately. It

was

a pressure vote (these things are not secrets in my world). I think eleven may be anti-town; I'm trying to elicit discussion in order to determine further.

[Josh Lyman]

EBWOP: I think generally, only town replaces out except in highly unusual circumstances.

[Wulfy]

Wulfy, mind elaborating on how I was 'blindly following the heaviest wagon'? What do you mean by 'heaviest'?

Most votes, though I could have been mistaken.

EBWOP: I think generally, only town replaces out except in highly unusual circumstances.

Hm...I disagree. I know from friends of mine who have modded games that unusual/interesting/etc roles are just as capable of replacing out. *shrugs* I think it's pretty null.

[Scott Brosius]

How interesting that you'd stick me for no contribution, yet you're agreeing with a person without even reading them in ISO. Yes, Scott himself has had excellent contribution to this game.

And I find it quite stupid that through your own admittance you say that RVS is stupid, and me even saying that we're struggling to get out of it, yet you vote me for not 'scumhunting' out of it.

Attempting to deflect attention onto me instead of adequately defending yourself is not helping your case.

Why is everyone trying to read into replacements so much? The first game I played in on this site I replaced in as scum. I have also replaced in as town. I think its a useless topic to pursue and is distracting from actual scum-hunting.

[el simo]

Going to have LA for about 2 days, will do an update as soon as I can.

[Torqez]

I also think the replacement issue is not going to lead anywhere. I've replaced into 3 games on this site. Once town, once scum and once a cop.

[nhammen]

CallMeLiam replaces Sweep effective immediately
don_johnson replaces eleven knives in a throat effective immediately

[CallMeLiam]

Unvote

to get things started. I'll do a more thorough post once I've done a more thorough read

[nhammen]

post to put vote count on top of page