Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Vaya]

Vote: Papa Zito

[Vaya]

Vaya, for what reason do you vote PZ? He is pretty awesome.

I don't disagree. I just picked a random name I recognized from the list.

[Vaya]

Sure I would. Are you scum?

[Vaya]

Vaya: Mmmmhm.

?

[Vaya]

OK. For the record, I pretty much never state reasoning for voting in the random vote stage when I don't have a real reason for my vote.

[Vaya]

Unvote
Vote: saberwolf

[Vaya]

Are all of you people completely unfamiliar with the flavor? It should be obvious what Discode's role probably is, and that this person is probably town. I really don't like the attacks against him right now.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if Discode claimed his rolename to confirm that he is the person I'm thinking of. I don't see how it could hurt.

[Vaya]

Vaya: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking Riku. However: What Riku did at the beginning of the series was, in fact, a bad thing. An evil thing. And for a good while, he was on the side of evil. If there's a Maleficent in this game, there's not an insubstantial chance that Riku's teamed with her.

What you're saying really isn't true.

What Riku did is not necessarily an evil thing. On of the things King Mickey told Riku towards the end of KHII was that the darkness isn't inherently evil. It makes complete sense that Riku would be a miller.

Secondly, during the period that Riku was on the side of evil and using the powers of darkness, he wasn't transformed into Ansem. During the period that he was Ansem, he was not on the side of evil.

[Vaya]

Discode is saying his rolename is changed, I'm assuming that this refers to Riku's transformation into Ansem.

[Vaya]

I don't remember anything about Ansem possessing Riku at the end of KHII. From what I remember, by the end of that game, Riku got better and stopped looking like Ansem. So during the period that he did look like Ansem, he was a good guy that took the appearance of a villain. So him being a miller makes perfect sense.

Either way though, I think we should just wait for Discode to come in and see if he can clear this up. I'd prefer not to spend too much time discussing flavor.

[Vaya]

Vaya 178: Do you think Slicey made our roles dependent on our alignment. I have a game where alignment was independent of the character you were. (Mafia of Order, everyone but Tar was a pro-town FE character) and HP mafia which I can link where Harry/Ron/Hermione was scum.

I considered this, and I'm not saying Discode's town based on the fact I think he's a protagonist. It's just that this situation, and his apparent millerizing, make sense with him being Riku, and Riku being town in this situation. I do want to know why he made himself a miller in the first place though, as others have said.

I agree with you though that people should stop speculating about what his role may be. I didn't even want to say I thought he was Riku until Gorrad called me out on it.

[Vaya]

Unvote
Vote: foilist

Agree with PZ here. I also find Gorrad very scummy as well.

Deathnote and Zwet would both be acceptable lynches in my eyes, but frankly DisCode is so blatantly scum! For Zwet, at least, his behavior is normally this scummy. Can't really say about DN, haven't played with him enough to know.

Please, explain why Discode is blatantly scum, because I don't see it right now.

[Vaya]

Ray, what's your problem with people simply agreeing with others anyway? If everyone had your attitude, a town would never achieve a lynch.

I happened to be thinking the same thing about foilist as Papa Zito anyway.

[Vaya]

I don't tend to throw out every single thought that comes to my mind.

[Vaya]

You don't seem to tend to throw out any thoughts that come to your mind until somebody else has done so for the same thought.

Not true at all.

But anyway, what problem do you have with me wagoning anyway. Bandwagons are pro-town.

[Vaya]

@Ray
I mean that bandwagoning as a tactic are informative and good for the town, not that it necessarily makes the people doing it town. And what you describe in the second sentence is in no way a scumtell.

But anyway, this back and forth with you is kinda pointless. I'm done here unless you have anything important to say.

@Fuzzy
I don't think what Ray's saying here is vote-worthy. It feels like it simply stems from his personal mafia beliefs and playstyle. RayFrost isn't reading scum to me right now.

[Vaya]

The only niggling point is Vaya's almost-insistance that he's pro-Town Miller!Riku.

I very much believe that he's a miller right now because his claim fits in perfectly in the flavor.

Also, even ignoring the flavor aspect of it, Discode being scum here doesn't make sense to me. Why would he, after performing a "scum action", come out and admit he was the cause of it, and try to convince the town it wasn't anything bad. I doubt that there would be any motivation for him as scum to want to paint the scene as something unharmful, or for him to bring unnecessary attention to himself doing it, I find it more likely that he's simply being honest.

Vaya, why do you have bad feelings about Gorrad?

You could call it a gut read. I mainly don't like how he talks about Discode like he's obviously scum, when I feel its likely he's telling the truth, and he admits himself that it would be possible for him to be telling the truth about his ability. I still want to hear from him why Discode is blatantly scum.

I don't dislike his bandwagoning vote so much as I dislike her response to RF when he calls her out on it. It feels wrong and . . . Vaya's offensive against RF's accusations isn't a strawman, but it frames RF's point as rediculous when it isn't by going at it from an angle RF wasn't trying to attack from. And then argues that he shouldn't have a problem with her bandwagoning because bandwagons are protown when that is

clearly

not the point RF was trying to make. It's wiggly and as a response to an accusation it frankly doesn't make me feel good. At all.

I'm going to disagree with you actually that Ray's accusation wasn't stupid. What point did he have that I wiggled around? Ray's point was that I was jumping on an easy bandwagon, and my response to that was that I already didn't like the guy, and even if I didn't, there's nothing bad about agreeing with someone else's point and joining them on a wagon anyway.

[Vaya]

Vaya you are defending Dis pretty heavily here, even talking about the whole Riku thing before Dis full claims, and that just reeks of either buddying up to try and buy town points from someone, or scum partner.

Or it suggests that I simply believe he's innocent.

[Vaya]

In KH1, Riku is possesed by Ansem, causing his already-evil self to be totally evil. IF DisCode is Riku (and it's still a big if), then that's possibly what caused the mod scene. His being possessed. I went into speculation primarily to disprove Vaya's statement that if he was Riku, he had to be town.

I was actually referring specifically to the period before and during KHII where Riku's physical appearance changed to that of Ansem. I would think that would be more likely to cause his rolename to be changed than anything else.

But enough speculation right now, we don't even know if the guy actually is Riku yet.

Let me ask you something though. If you think he's lying about millering himself and was doing something bad, why do you think he would admit he was the cause of it? This is one of the big reasons I'm inclined to believe him, if not given a good reason to be skeptical of it. In fact, also explain why you don't at all trust his claim, when you clearly have an understanding how it could be possible for him to be telling the truth.

Issue with foil case:

it could be applied to other people in this game.

It is more of a general case rather than anything specific about his posts or what he's said.

As such, the case can be applied elsewhere (zwet, for the most obvious example), making it not one saying I should vote foil but rather one saying I should vote somebody that hasn't posted content.

There is one thing specifically about foilist that made him catch my attention over others. Eight pages into the game, a good bit after discussion had started, he comes in to place a random vote, instead of commenting at all on what was going on or placing an actual vote on someone. I've actually seen scum random vote like this in a previous game I've been in on this site, so that especially caught my eye.

Really, he's said next to nothing game related at all so far. Can you actually point out someone else who has posted, but neglected to comment on the game at all to his extent? Even zwet hasn't been this bad, his few posts have at least been more than flavor talk.

Also Ray, your reasoning for finding me scummy are still idiotic and wrong.

[Vaya]

Yes, I understand why scum would fake-claim miller, that's not really my point. I would think that if he were scum wanting to claim miller, he would just claim miller. It seems a bit odd for him to tie in this unrelated event to his miller fake-claim like this. I more get the impression from this that he's simply telling the truth.

OK, the question of why he would turn himself into a miller is a point, but we can wait to here an explanation on that before coming to the conclusion he must be scum. He could actually be town and have an reason for it.

If my position here isn't clear by the way, I do want DisCode to full claim, mainly because the above is a valid point. I am thinking that he's town though.

[Vaya]

Vaya: Have you considered that if DosCode is fakeclaiming scum that the event might not be as disconnected as you postulate (i.e. he or a scumbuddy was responsible for/connected to it) and that he tied his Miller claim to the mod scene to net believability points?

When I say the scene would be unrelated, I mean unrelated to his being a miller. I'm pretty sure the scene has something to do with him one way or another.

It is possible he's making up the miller claim, and is using the mod scene to add believability to his claim, but that doesn't feel too likely to me for some reason.

Really, I don't see any strong reason to believe DisCode's scum or disbelieve his miller claim right now. I do want to hear him fullclaim, but I'm thinking he's town right now.

[Vaya]

Iec, I'm curious, did you start reading this game and making that list before or after you got your role PM?

[Vaya]

I did have a reason for asking the question. I liked Iec's list, it felt to me like it was coming from town, so I want to say Iec is town. However, if that list was made before he got his role PM, it couldn't have any bearing on his alignment. That's why I asked when he made the list.

[Vaya]

I think people tend to read from a town perspective. I don't understand how a pre-PM list wouldn't be credible. If anything, I think a pre-PM list would be more credible.

That's kinda my point actually, that people tend to read from a town perspective. If the townishness came from the fact that you made the list before you got a PM, it wouldn't mean anything about your alignment. But since you did make it after you got your PM, I can say its a sign of you being town.

[Vaya]

Unvote
Vote: zwet

I'm fine with lynching this guy. The claim does nothing for me.

[Vaya]

I don't see why Iec is scum here, Goofball.

Unvote

, while we give Iec time to do what he needs.

[Vaya]

Vaya, do not unvote for me. I do not want anyone to unvote zwet. Vote/express your conscience without lynching him.

Meh, I didn't want anyone being stupid and quicklynching if you wanted extra time. But if you say so,

Vote: zwet