Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[d3x]

/confirm

[d3x]

Vote:Amished

There were no amish in the Wild Wild West, obvScum.

[d3x]

@Nacho- Is that RVS or a serious Vote?

[d3x]

I'm sure that I couldn't tell you what you were doing, hence my question.

Why don't you want to commit to a course of action/explanation?

[d3x]

Interrogation nothing. I asked you if you were making a serious Vote and you deflected. What would you expect my reaction to be? Ignore it?

You still haven't answered the initial question, by the way.

[d3x]

Actually, Id expect you to react to my vote as you have everyone else's, so, yes. That was what I was expecting.

Considering everyone else's Votes were very clearly RVS, I find this very interesting. I asked you which it was due to the ambiguity of it. With you getting defensive and dodging for a third time, I'm getting a very bad feeling about you.

UnVote/Vote:Nm8

[d3x]

@Nm8- You Voted with something that may or may not have been a valid reason. That's why it wasn't clear.

----------------------------

@pwnz- What makes Porkchop Scum?

[d3x]

I don't have suspicions as to whether or not your reasons for Voting Ecto were legit, nor did I ever say I did. I asked if you were making a Random Vote or not. I Voted you for deflecting {which you continue to do} and for getting defensive.

To answer your question, I do think that extending the RVS is a bit scummy, so Ecto tips a bit towards the Scum side of my scale. Ecto wasn't the only one doing it, though. And I found your reaction more scummy than those who were trying to extend the RVS.

[d3x]

If you werent suspicious to whether my reasons for voting Echo were legit, then why would you ask if they were in the first place

Allow me to clarify, I did not know if you were making a Random Vote or not. I'm guessing that your answer is that it was a serious Vote {because you still have not said}. I was not questioning whether or not the reasons behind your Vote {RVS or not} were legit.

Why do you find my reaction more scummy than Ecto's?

Firstly, Ecto hasn't responded/reacted yet. Secondly, I think deflecting and being defensive are more scummy than trying to extend the RVS.

What scum motive do I have not to answer your question?

To see if Vi would follow suit*, for one. She brought up the fact that Ecto was trying to extend the RVS in p35. After she made a comment on it, you came out with a Vote. If she didn't back your play, you could've said that it was RVS nonsense.

*

Disclaimer

- I'm not calling Vi scummy, I'm calling Nm8 opportunistic. Though that does beg the question...

@Vi- If you found Ecto's play scummy, why wait to Vote until after Nm8?

[d3x]

@Ben p64- I find that allowing the RVS to continue for an undue amount of time distracts the Town and puts off ScumHunting. I find that it's all too easy for Scum to use the RVS to build a BS case on a Townie. With that in mind, I find it to be scummy to try to stretch out the RVS. Point in case...

People are lackadaisical and sometimes slip up

...this applies to Townies as well. If allowed to continue on, there is a chance for Townies to say something stupid and end up looking very scummy in the long run.

@Sotty p66- I think that being defensive by itself is not neccessarily a ScumTell, just something to watch out for.

@Sotty p68- I don't have a problem with Nacho's Vote, can you show me where I 'blew it up'?

@Vi p67-

I won't deny that Nacho's vote made my mind up about doing it tbh.

Why did his Vote make up your mind?

FoS:pwnz

[d3x]

Mod

- Please note the sig. I should be available for the rest of the day, but no promises after that. Sorry all, work is taking me to Texas for a few days.

Apart from that, large post follows. Sorry again, but I'm catching up on a lot that's happened in 1 day. I'll be answering in {mostly} chronological order.

--

Cases based solely on the rvs are bad cases and I doubt scum would play so poorly, but you never know.

Which is why my question to Nacho is all the more valid, imo.

--

I don't see what he is getting at as being scummy behaviour from nacho.

I assume then that you disagree with my 3rd point in p62? I do agree that the wagon that is following is a bit much, though. But I'll get to that in a bit.

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If it's not a scum tell why do you need to watch out for it? Why was that part of the reasons you voted him?

As I said in the post you quoted here,

being defensive by itself

. That was not the only thing Nacho was doing. He was dodging and deflecting questions {which he still has not answered}.

the intensity of your questioning just didn't seem to fit the crime in my eyes.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think my questioning was that intense at all.

1.I asked if he his Vote was RVS.
2.I asked why he wouldn't commit to an answer.
3.I asked if he expected me to ignore that he deflected my question.

That was it.

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why are you assuming anything in the first place?

Please tell me what I was assuming. If I recall correctly, my first post directed at you was a question so that I wouldn't have to assume. You did not answer and that sparked this whole discussion {between you and I}.

How does this make you feel?

While I'm wary that someone I find a bit scummy {due to the RVS extension thing} is following my lead, I don't have too much of a problem with Ecto's post. It would be rather odd for me to go after someone who shares the same opinion as me. I'm more concerned with a few of the others on my wagon, but nothing overwhelming for the moment.

Wow, an actual answer.

Lol! You are the one who has been refusing to answer things, Nacho. Where have I dodged your questions {or anyone's, for that matter}? Was your Vote on Ecto Random or not?

Do you agree with Ecto's former statement that you don't need a scum motive to vote someone?

First, I think you're taking this a bit out of context. Let me pull the reference so it's clear in everyone's minds.

There does not have to be an assignable scum 'motive' for your reaction. Instead it illustrates a mindset of a player who does not wish to divulge any information or be held to a specific opinion.

I believe he is saying that we don't need to fully know the Scum motivation behind something to consider it scummy. I generally agree with this, although it's a bit flimsy for my taste.

@Benmage and Porkchop:

Really? Is that the best you can come up with? "He's scummy because Ecto said so."

This.

@Ben: But when the RVS has already ended, is it scummy to attempt to extend it?

Where do you consider the RVS as having ended, Nacho?

--

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

What would it take to make you Vote someone? What level of scummy comes after 'obviously scummy'?

HoS:CA

--

Mmkay, then demonstrate how my mindset can be attributed to scum by example.

Didn't I do this in p62? And wasn't it ignored? Is that a theme for you, Nacho? Or did you miss it 'wading through all the bullshit' of a 3 point post?

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Also vote for d3x, and benmage, if I could.

Reasons?

--

I am trying to figure just what made d3x pick Nacho's vote, say over my vote to question.

Because I felt that Nacho's might be serious. Nothing more, nothing less. Had he answered, I would've dropped it right there.

The player before my post voted d3x so I jumped on.

Point and case.

--

Tl;dr. Sorry again, guys. I'll try and not make this a habit.

[d3x]

@Sotty- Your Vote was clearly RVS, Nacho's wasn't. Hence my reaction was different.

[d3x]

Hi guys. I'm back from my work forced exile. I'll be catching up hopefully today. Thanks for being patience.

~d

[d3x]

isn't

{d3x}

supposed to be around?

Kind of, yeah. I said I'd hopefully catch up yesterday. I'm still about 3-4 pages back in this game. I'm trying to catchup in 2 games at once. I have a few thoughts, but want to finish up my read first. Also, I'm leaving for work in a few and won't be able to finish my read {hence this post}.

[d3x]

Alright, I'm caught up. As I said before, I'm not trying to make a habit of giant posts, so I'm not going to summarize the last 8 pages. In light of this, please ask me to comment on specific situations/posts if you'd like my specific thoughts.

For those points I do wish to comment on in no particular order...

@Amished- Aside from the one post you quoted {my catch-up post announcing V/LA}, where are you pulling info for a possible 3rd party? It doesn't sit well with me that you are willing to shoot me before Voting me {now that you couldn't drum up any backing for my lynch}.

@Nacho- Were you waiting on my return to respond to my points? Well, here I am. Please feel free to respond now.

@Ben- Your Iso41 doesn't sit too well with me. It's like you're making a show of finding out the Scum are packing heat as well. If we're all armed, why wouldn't they be? This

is

a wild west theme, afterall.

@d_j- I'm very curious as to why you didn't think your 'DayKill' would work {I think someone already asked this as well}.

@pwnz- More please. Starter- Are you for or against Vi's suggestion of going Nightless? Why/why not? What are your thoughts on ConA's choice to Heal Vi?

That's all for now. More later {after I fully catchup in my other game}.

[d3x]

d3x, would you like to actually take stances on people?

I don't like making Town/Scum lists because it gives Scum a lot of information, imo. I will give a few Scum reads I have though. Note- these are not the only players I feel are leaning Scum, just the ones I wish to discuss atm.

Nacho
He effectively disappeared when the heat came off of him. He still hasn't answered a growing list of questions and I can't figure any proTown motivation for it {though I can think of a few proScum ones}.

Amished
The third party speculation doesn't really hold water. Only Scum truly know the balance of the game and would then be in the best position to guess at 3rd parties {aside from 3rd parties themselves}.

pwnz
This is mostly gut based on the sparse interactions and pretty severe lack of ScumHunting. He's lurking pretty well and when he does pop in, there's not really much meat to his 3 game related posts.

[d3x]

Find me the ones I've missed, then.

Seriously? Up until p350 {which was posted right before my post} you had answered next to nothing.

Now let me get to my responses...

You were refering to my guess at your intent? Because you wouldn't tell me? Fine, then I accept that I assumed your meaning due to your refusal to answer my questions.

Would you say that the discussion helped move the town in a much better direction?

Yes. I feel that this has helped me to get a read on you. I also believe that it helped to end the RVS.

If you believed someone was piggybacking onto your reasoning, wouldn't it be the for the benefit of the town to point that out?

Yes, but I don't believe that Ecto was. He came out with a full post with details. As I said, I felt stronger that others on the wagon were suspiciously joining the wagon.

For me, scummy things are things that have considerable scum motives behind it. What are scummy things to you?

I include things that have the strong potential to have Scum motives behind it.

Didn't I ask Ecto this question?

Yes, but you asked me first and then ignored my answer. When you brought it back up to another player, I couldn't help but connect the two.

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Frankly, your opinion is incorrect.

Then we must agree to disagree on this. As Scum, I've used others' lists to play Town off of each other and gauge where I stand with others as a barometer. 'Incorrect' or not, that's my experience.

Is Nacho the best place for your vote right now?

I'm comfortable with my Vote being here for the time being. We're not pressed for deadline right now and I feel like there's something more here. I came back from V/LA, called him out, and he immediately started posting again.

[d3x]

Nope, i've skimmed ya and looked back at a few things, but never really sat down and analyzed you/did a proper iso.

In your Iso23 you specifically say you're going to do this in response to a comment Sotty made.

i need to reread

{Nacho's}

iso, and that 1st wagon on him.

Why didn't you?

You also talk about doing a PBPA on him in Iso64. Are you still planning to?

[d3x]

I don't think you need my shot at this point.

Why wouldn't you use your shot if it could help the Town? Are you not sure of your Vote on Ecto?

[d3x]

d3x, why do you think I would want to shoot you without any further consideration if I can ever get confirmation on if I'm alive?

Well, that's a pretty easy one, unfortunately. I've been floating through this game for a while now {I've had a bit of a difficult time getting back into the game since my V/LA, appologies}. On top of Amished's 3rd party speculation, I've also been connected with Ecto who everyone has fairly strong negative feelings towards.

[d3x]

we really need mod intervention

This.

[d3x]

Vote:don_johnson

We have a confirmed Healer in ConA. Are you suggesting that he's a Scum Healer?

[d3x]

It was more of a rhetorical question. What are you basing your theory off of?

[d3x]

VP looks way to much like he knew Vi was town before he flipped.

This came out of no where. Is this a general feeling you're getting or based on something specific? If it is the later, please link to the posts.

[d3x]

What's your opinion of Ecto's choice to shoot Vi, did you think his case was valid?

I felt like p435 was fairly solid, but I'm very wary about his p513 considering...

I don't expect to miss, and I don't expect to simply wound him either.

Why would you consider the possibility of getting extremely lucky with a kill shot if you expect a kill shot based on your RolePM? Smells fishy to me.

What has happened to your Nacho suspicion? He is barely posting yet you seemed a little too eager to vote for Don.

Nothing happened to my suspicion. d_j made a pretty obv scummy move, imo. This combined with his shooting Vi earlier for a weak reason and saying that he 'didn't know' if it would work only reinforce that read. I'm not interested in shooting him because I think it could spark a free-for-all and I think that would be bad for us.

You have any other suspects?

See my Iso15.

[d3x]

I would like to appologize to everyone here. I've never flaked on a game before but the end of this year has really kicked me in the nuts. I was honestly hoping to get back into the game after my V/LA but it was very difficult. I was pretty damned lost. I was only able to barely able finish up my other game { I posted much more here than there after returning} and haven't joined any others out of respect to you guys. Again, I'm sorry. GG all.