Mini 865 -- Evil Eyes (Over)

[MacavityLock]

Hi Nuwen again! I asked you a question in 426. An answer please.

Suave's wagon is one of classic opportunism. There's gotta be scum on it.

Is this true of the geek-wagon as well, or only the Suave-wagon? Is this negated if Suave is actually scum?

[Nuwen]

Hi Nuwen again! I asked you a question in 426. An answer please.

Suave's wagon is one of classic opportunism. There's gotta be scum on it.

Is this true of the geek-wagon as well, or only the Suave-wagon? Is this negated if Suave is actually scum?

I don't see how the wagons on Geek and Suave are comparable - Suave is going to be lynched for being quite useless, inexperienced, and one of the weaker links in the game.

No. If Suave flips scum, expect an early/mid wagon bus from at least one other team member. I don't think that Suave is any more likely to be scum than random, however.

[MacavityLock]

I've given my Suave case already.

Awesome. Point it out please. Give us a nice one post recap including quotes.

Here's my case on Suave:

Suave starts out in iso 8 with the "3rd person on wagon" scumtell. First, he ignores my question multiple times about where that tell comes from. Finally, in iso 12 he acknowledges that he got it from an on-going game from some person of unknown alignment in that game. Note first that this is a bad play for anyone to make, but that could just as easily be VI than scum. However, it's also classic passing the buck. "Oh, hey, it can't point to my scumminess. I got this theory from someone else!" In his iso 14, he responds to the less interesting of my two points and fails to acknowledge the more interesting.

Iso 20 he talks about claiming. As I stated before, I think that for a newb-ish player like Suave, as scum he would be more antsy and try to do something big to hopefully shift focus. See my iso 19 for more complete explanation.

He's done quite literally nothing pro-town. He hasn't scum-hunted, he's added nothing to the game. Note that this is distinct from actively being anti-town.

Additionally, I think we'll learn from Suave's lynch. There been a useful bandwagon to examine, and there have been a few connections otherwise. Once again, this is not a reason to lynch, but just a point that I don't think a "lack of connections" issue exists to prevent a lynch.

[Symbol]

I took Suave's willingness to claim as a (newb) town tell.

[MrSuave]

well my opinion is still going to stand on going for Hoopla. I also don't like REC, but the JW... I never concidered him, even though he has been on me for the most of the game. Even though it's a little tempting to jump on that wagon, I'm staying with Hoopla till I think it better to be off.

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count (D1)

tubby216 (1) -- ErictheRed
Hoopla (1) -- MrSuave
MrSuave (5) -- julienvonwolfe, MacavityLock,

ekiM

, xRECKONERx, tubby216
julienvonwolfe (3) -- iamausername, Symbol, Torqez
Torqez (1) -- Hoopla

Not Voting (1) -- Nuwen

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 12 NOV 2009 at 5:15 pm UTC (Countdown)

Seeking a replacement for ekiM.

[MrSuave]

k, well if it gets too close to the deadline I'm claiming

[EriktheRed]

I still don't buy the Suave wagon, at all. I'm considering the Julien one, though. I'll isoread him and see if I feel he's scummier than Tubby, but the idea of anyone being scummier than Tubby is simply ridiculous.

Suave, claiming for no reason is absolutely stupid. While I agree with Symbol and find it a towntell, you're just trying to claim for the sake of claiming now, which is kind of making me paranoid about being wrong about you.

---

Hi, haaaaave you met Post #211? Specifically the final paragraph? I totally agree that it would have been perfectly reasonable for someone to question my town read on Reck.

Well, first up, I disagree that geek replacing out when she did was either a) a result of game-overloading, or b) a null-tell. It was quite clearly a direct response to the fact that she was coming under heavy suspicion, and I think that is definitely more likely to be a scum reaction. Where newbscum will think "Oh god, they've caught me, I might as well give up", I'd expect newbtown to think more along the lines of "Why are they suspecting

me

? What's wrong with these people?" and probably go off on an angry tirade about it, not to run away scared.

I would consider an angry PBPA about considering a scummy player town as a tirade, myself. But newbies tend to think that being lynched is tantamount to losing the game and a horrible thing regardless of their alignment. I'm not saying that Geek didn't do anything scummy, but if a newbtownie is coming under fire for legitimate reasons I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he'd be scared off. That said, I can also see now how you came to your own conclusion.

There's also that whole bit with attacking Nuwen but refusing to actually admit that she was attacking Nuwen that was the reason I voted geek in the first place. There's nothing that you yourself have done as yet that's screaming out as scummy, but there's equally nothing that makes me think you are town.

I really can't see where Geek openly denied attacking Nuwen or even ignored a question in the second quote in your explanation post; you said Geek "is clearly insinuating that Nuwen's questioning Suave's age is scummy, but refuses to actually say so outright", while it looks more to me like he's just asking for clarification. The only really clear thing is that Geek had no idea why that would be helpful in weeding out noise in reads on Suave.

[Hoopla]

well my opinion is still going to stand on going for Hoopla. I also don't like REC, but the JW... I never concidered him, even though he has been on me for the most of the game. Even though it's a little tempting to jump on that wagon, I'm staying with Hoopla till I think it better to be off.

Be reasonable Suave, would you really want to kill me?

[MrSuave]

well my opinion is still going to stand on going for Hoopla. I also don't like REC, but the JW... I never concidered him, even though he has been on me for the most of the game. Even though it's a little tempting to jump on that wagon, I'm staying with Hoopla till I think it better to be off.

Be reasonable Suave, would you really want to kill me?

Hmm.... =___=
well in a normal situation when you don't feel like you're a spy, then no I wouldn't want to kill you. but you are a spy, and I want to kill spys.

[Hoopla]

What makes you so certain?

[MacavityLock]

A reminder as we are approaching deadline: We still need a majority to lynch at deadline.

I will be LA from now until Nov 12 (NSF application deadline same day as this game's, how awkward), though I should be around enough to participate in the lynch. Don't expect deep analysis though. Sorry.

[Symbol]

Suave, claiming for no reason is absolutely stupid. While I agree with Symbol and find it a towntell, you're just trying to claim for the sake of claiming now, which is kind of making me paranoid about being wrong about you.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this. The whole idea behind a claim is that we don't lynch a vital power role. Shutting Suave up is a terrible idea if he is in fact town and if he is in fact a power role.

[EriktheRed]

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this. The whole idea behind a claim is that we don't lynch a vital power role. Shutting Suave up is a terrible idea if he is in fact town and if he is in fact a power role.

Or we just don't lynch him...? Then a claim is a pretty stupid idea, which is my point. Unless you'd LIKE scum to NK a power role?

[EriktheRed]

EBWOP: I forgot to reiterate how I think Suave is newbtown.

[Symbol]

Right, and I agree, but given that most people here are showing total disinterest in the game, I doubt the wagon is going to recede. If Suave gets pushed to L-1, he should claim.

Mod: Isn't xRECKONERx voting for Julienvonwolfe?

[EriktheRed]

I agree that he should claim if at L-1. But he was saying he'd do it

regardless

once we get closer to deadline, which is what I had the problem with.

[Symbol]

Okay, so we're in violent agreement. But I do want to clarify that, even if he isn't at L-1, if he's the majority lynch with a stagnant vote count as time is winding down he should still claim.

[Torqez]

Seeking a replacement for ekiM.[/color][/b]

Oh dear. Dread the thought at someone replacing into a game at 21 pages. I found it difficult enough coming in at 17

[julienvonwolfe]

I've given my Suave case already.

Awesome. Point it out please. Give us a nice one post recap including quotes.

I'm perfectly happy voting for Suave since he's lurking and has made no pro-town contribution.

Then, of course, there was the meta I have on him.

Finally, Suave has had all game to try and get my vote off him by being pro-town, but he hasn't. He's lurked, he's made a BS case on Hoopla, he lurked some more, and he comes back to reiterate the BS case on Hoopla. Sheesh.

He's done quite literally nothing pro-town. He hasn't scum-hunted, he's added nothing to the game. Note that this is distinct from actively being anti-town.

Can you explain how?

[tubby216]

so can we just get some more suave votes pls thankx

[MrSuave]

so can we just get some more suave votes pls thankx

why so serious? but really, why are you so eager to kill me? are you trying to seem less scummy? =O

What makes you so certain?

I'm just comparing to Korlash is all. No matter how I look at that game, and this game, your play is so different, and you were so pro town in korlash (because you were town), and now you just seem random, so I'm saying you're a spy (aka scum). I mean, it's pretty hard to be pro town when you want the town dead right? ^_^

[julienvonwolfe]

But Hoopla was similar in that game as well - for example, when she supported my lynch on day two.

[xRECKONERx]

so can we just get some more suave votes pls thankx

...this makes me want to vote Tubby. Tubs, have you ever ONCE provided a case/stated reasons for wanting to lynch Suave?

[tubby216]

so can we just get some more suave votes pls thankx

why so serious? but really, why are you so eager to kill me? are you trying to seem less scummy? =O

ok if you're using a heath ledger quoute so am i.

simply put its this "you have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting" therefore you must go. enjoy the gallows


by the way it is impossible for me to look les scummy its how i roll