Mini 870: Melee mafia. (Mod Abandoned)

[Kast]

@drowmage-
Welcome to the game.

@TM-

You have not answered several questions. I will repost the two that I would like to hear answers for the most.

-Why did you say that voting would be infeasible, then immediately turn around and say you plan to vote? Also explain how voting is infeasible.
-Why did you initially state that attacks should all be in thread but then turn around and claim everyone should be free to use PM if they want?

Ignoring questions doesn't make them go away. These minor inconsistencies sound like scum trying to blend by agreeing with everyone.

[farside22]

This game is going to be hard I can tell already. A lot of the discussion so far is game mechanincs which it's hard to really pinpoint who's scummy per se.
Let me get to things I missed
Rogues should have a valid reason for their attacks on others
Action PMs should be allowed
Action PMs should not be punished.

After reading and seeing more discussion about the game mechanics I just want to go back and read.
No offense to Kast when I say this but the walls of text get my eyes to glaze over but the blue text is far worse.

[chamber]

Btw, chamber's Post 134 is a great example of out of context quoting. By itself it's a pretty crap-logic based argument. Defense is completely irrelevant to KY's post. Offence is only relevant in terms of damage, and has no bearing in terms of attack bonus (which is how the term is being used from context).

It's hard to quote something out of context when its the previous post, I was just quoting to make it clear what I thought was untrue. By defense I meant HP, and I took "attack rolls" to mean both toHit rolls and toDamage rolls.

His follow up explanation re:damage is valid as an argument but incorrect due to bad numbers. Also, if every player did max damage and we assume no bonuses, then that's 12 damage per player per attack resulting in 288 damage. That should be enough to kill or critically wound most of us.

I stand by my statement.

[Kast]

@FS/SB-

Is bold greentext better?

@chamber-
-Location of the source for an out-of-context quote does not make it harder to use it out of context. It does make it harder to get away with using one.

Even with severe negative modifiers on your Damage Dice, TSQ explicitly stated the default damage dice. Your personal role should not prevent you from understanding KY's post.

With your clarifications, your initial argument reduces to your latter argument; which fails when looking at the numbers.

-In your own assumed context, the rolls are enough for each player to receive 24 damage. Unless your role is WAY above the curve in HP (extremely unlikely), 24 damage is enough that more than half (read:all) players could be close to death after a single Melee Phase.

You stated that you spoke with TSQ and figure most roles are similar. I don't believe that he would say anything to make you think most players can take 24 damage and not be close to death.

To be clear, you stand by your claim that {each player receiving 24 damage} is not equivalent to {more than half the players close to death}. Let me know if you rethink.

[chamber]

In talk with shea he told me he thought all roles were within 1 standard deviation of each other. On further reflection I guess my defense could be huge and my offense terrible. When I stated what I did I was assuming all my stats were within 1 sd which could clearly be faulty on a relook. I still stand by exact statement though "If every player was me, and we all did max damage, than more than half the players wouldn't be close to death".I should note that before bonuses I only get 12(6+6) damage per player, please tell me where you are getting 24. At any rate the chance of all of us doing max damage is something like 7.5e-43 (using your combat math) that number is very small. If we look at expected damage instead then I definitely don't think many players will be close to death.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Kast: I think we have enough of mechanics discussion. This isn't helping town.

Right now I'm getting town vibes from Kast (though those large posts are painful, they seem helpful) and chamber (rebel town). From the others I don't have enough to say something, though farside seems to be buying time to lurk. Not good.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Kast: Yes, bold green is a bit better. Still, if you could make your posts a bit shorter, I believe everyone will appreciate that.

[Kirbyoshi]

I still think so far, Tony is most likely to be scum, but any cases people can make at this stage are going to be weak.

[populartajo]

Yey, notes! And Ill teach Kast how to make a post that its actually readable.

Page 1.
Not much, only confirmations. Kirbyyoshi seems to be too eager to play.

Page 2.
-Spyrex gets town points for suggesting no actions should be PMed. Further transparent posts confirm my town read on him.
-Kast is also ok, kinda picky with Spyrex. Nuwen is also ok. Chamber is being polemic and lots of facepalms. Dunno what to make of this.

Page 3.

If a player damages someone that isn't slated to be lynched by the majority, it's an instant lynch the next melee phase. No questions asked. Dealing damage independent of consensus is scummy enough to become a policy kill in this setup.

Id like this to happen here. No townies should attack someone if there is no consensus. This is a place where I bet scum would like to steal some pesky hps. If you want your lovely target to die, then make a case. Solid cases get lynches. True story.


Page 4.
Col is also ok in his answers. Tony not so much. Meh about farside, since at this point agreeing and supporting the plan is a null tell.

Unvote, Vote: TonyMontana for not answering all the questions. There were 7 questions asked, and you only answered 1. Explain.

Me no likes people exaggerating cases. Also, me no likes people following blindly what Kast says.

Page 5
I agree with Yos2. Grover is also meh.

Conclusion
We should vote. People who voted for the majority candidate should attack that candidate during Melee Phase. Players are requested to not attack anyone other than the majority candidate; those who do will probably not face punishment. Players are requested to post actions in thread. Those who do not will probably not face punishment.

Id really like to ban people who attack other player than the majority candidate. I know you love your little vig powers, but unfortunately we are trying to avoid chaos here. If you want someone dead, then once again, I tell you, MAKE A CASE. If nobody follows your case, then it probable sucks, which would mean you are probably wrong... or that you are prob scum. I really dont want wrong townies here. At the same time, you are giving scum a free pass to behave like a rogue townie.

Now, if you make a case, and the majority follows your case, then success!, you have prob found scum. Or you have found a scummy townie. Which unfortunately needs to die. Like in a real game.

If you are not happy with the choice, then EXPLAIN clearly why you think that player is town.

Heh, Yos stole my case in 117.

Page 6.
Yeah, Yosa2 is town. 126 is pure scumhunting.

Tony is also meh in his posting in this page. Played with him before. Usual logical guy, I would have expected him to dislike rogues. Kast also spotted a contradiction that prob needs explanation.

imo, it's probably time to stop arguing about logistics, do it the way majority has agreed upon, and commence scumhunting. Everyone good with that? I just get bogged down talking about how we're going to do everything; let's just do it.

I love how YOU commence to scumhunt.

Page 7.
More farside meh. SnowBunny 155 shines transparency.

[Snow_Bunny]

What do you mean with my 155 shinning transparency?

[populartajo]

TL DR

Prob Town

Yosa
Bunny
Spyrex
Nuwen
Kast
Chamber

Neutral

Col-drowmage
farside
Grover
Tony

Prob Scum

Kirbyyoshi

I still think so far, Tony is most likely to be scum, but any cases people can make at this stage are going to be weak.

Why?

Lets start with the scumhunting.

Vote: Kirbyyoshi.

My case is lack of towniness.

[populartajo]

What do you mean with my 155 shinning transparency?

Your reads seems sincere. (Calling chamber rebel town is a solid stance). They do not feel fabricated

[Kirbyoshi]

Kirbyoshi seems to be too eager to play.

Tell me how that's a bad thing.

Me no likes people exaggerating cases. Also, me no likes people following blindly what Kast says.

There was nothing about that case to exaggerate, and just because I'm following Kast, doesn't mean I'm doing it blindly. I think about what he says, and if it makes sense, I go along with it.

Anyway, thanks for bringing us out of mechanics-discussion Snow and Tajo. Town points for that.

Tony is still the scummiest. chamber is acting slightly scummy, but I think it's just because he doesn't agree with some of the majority decisions the town has made on how we should do things.

Kast, Snow, Tajo, and Nuwen are all town.
Need to hear more from farside.
Grover and Spyrex need to post.
I'll give drow some time to read.
I'm unsure of Yos and chamber.

[Kirbyoshi]

@Tajo in 160: Cases are going to be weak because we're barely out of just talking about game mechanics. However, I'm happy with the rate at which you have sped up the scumhunting train. Now, if only it was trying to run over the right person...

[populartajo]

Tell me how that's a bad thing.

It isnt. Its mostly null. It just caught my attention. Why did you assume I said it was a bad thing?

There was nothing about that case to exaggerate

Well you did. You voted someone a weak reason. And even when he explained it to you, you kept the vote on him.

and just because I'm following Kast, doesn't mean I'm doing it blindly. I think about what he says, and if it makes sense, I go along with it.

Fair enough. Arent you a little paranoid about him?

Tony is still the scummiest.

You still havent answered why.

[Kirbyoshi]

Why did you assume I said it was a bad thing?

It just looked to me like you thought it needed to be addressed.

You voted someone a weak reason. And even when he explained it to you, you kept the vote on him.

I don't think he ever did explain why he didn't answer all the questions posed to him. And why is it a weak reason? At that point in the game, could you have made a better case on anybody?

Arent you a little paranoid about him?

Of course. I'm a little paranoid about everybody. Like I said, I'm thinking about it, not just doing it blindly.

You still havent answered why.

It's been stated several times. Read, please.

[chamber]

TL DR

Prob Town

Yosa
Bunny
Spyrex
Nuwen
Kast
Chamber

Neutral

Col-drowmage
farside
Grover
Tony

Prob Scum

Kirbyyoshi

I still think so far, Tony is most likely to be scum, but any cases people can make at this stage are going to be weak.

Why?

Lets start with the scumhunting.

Vote: Kirbyyoshi.

My case is lack of towniness.

6 town reads on page 7, really?

[populartajo]

I don't think he ever did explain why he didn't answer all the questions posed to him. And why is it a weak reason? At that point in the game, could you have made a better case on anybody?

He did explain. And this was your answer:

Meh, I guess that's fair enough.
Still waiting on Grover.

And yes, it was a weak reason. I dont think I could have made a better case on anybody. I dont understand why you needed to. If you cant guess what my problem is, is that your vote reeks of fake scumhunting.

It's been stated several times. Read, please.

Actually, I dont think so. Please point me to where it has.[/quote]

[populartajo]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

[chamber]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

Not one.

[populartajo]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

Not one.

lol

Why not?

What about scum reads? Anything that has caught your attention?

[Kirbyoshi]

See, Tajo, my opinion is that not voting is anti-town. You will rarely find a time when I will stay not voting. The long phase where we discussed game mechanics I guess just prolonged the time when my vote would be on someone with weaker tells. Once someone commits a stronger scumtell, I'll switch my vote. But like I said, Tony has been the scummiest so far.

[chamber]

6 town reads on page 7, really?

I am that good. You dont have any town reads?

Not one.

lol

Why not?

What about scum reads? Anything that has caught your attention?

I have no strong reads one way or the other at this point. I think your full of shit if you are claiming to have 7 strong reads already.

[Kirbyoshi]

Tony could have just said "the rest of the questions don't apply to me based on my answer to the first one," or he could have set it up like I did mine, answering each question one by one, simply putting N/A by the ones he couldn't answer because his answer to a previous question puts him on a different line of thinking. He could have also said something along the lines of, "but if we HAVE to have a voting system...". In short, there are alot of ways he could have done it. The way he chose sets off my scumdar.

Tajo, I find it interesting that you're giving me flak for making a weak case, yet what's yours against me? "Lack of towniness"? Wow.

[populartajo]

I have no strong reads one way or the other at this point. I think your full of shit if you are claiming to have 7 strong reads already.

Never said strong reads. The list is titled Prob town. Yosa and Bunny are prob the ones Id be most sure atm. The rest are people that havent done anything scummy and have some decent town tells, who for obvious reasons cant be in the prob scum or neutral lists. If you arent lazy, you can see my other games for reference.

Tajo, I find it interesting that you're giving me flak for making a weak case, yet what's yours against me? "Lack of towniness"? Wow.

I dont think thats

all

my case against you. But if you want to keep misrepresenting, thats not going to be my problem.

Is it

that

hard to explain why Tony is the scummiest player here?