Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Cyberbob, role last game.

[Cyberbob]

Vanilla Townie.

[charter]

Ok, now I just want to know why Hoopla picked Sens and then I'll post my thoughts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ok, now I just want to know why Hoopla picked Sens and then I'll post my thoughts.

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

A few reasons. I didn't like his jump on the Peabody wagon - I thought if anyone was bussing, it would probably have been his vote. He was the one that put him at L-1. Second was the way he buttered up toward me at the end of D1, every time I've played with him as town we always get into petty fights, so I found it kind of odd. And third, because I find him hard to read.

[charter]

Oops, meant why not Vaya or Coco or vig one of them.

[Hoopla]

Or why you repeatedly didn't vig Vaya or Coco?

Well, I'm certainly not going to vig N1 when the cop option is the far superior way to play JOAT. On N2 I contemplated using it, as CoCo was my only genuine scum read, but felt he was a decent chance of being lynched the next day, so why waste my kill now? And as for N3, DDD had eclipsed CoCo in suspicion in my mind.

As for Vaya - I didn't ever find him particularly suspicion, and was advocating leaving him alive and not buying the WIFOM until Day 3.

[charter]

Alright, I think it's Hoopla/Cyberbob.

I'm not buying Hoopla's claim. I don't think her day two play reflects the fact that she knew Sens was innocent. There's no breadcrumb that anyone could have figured out, and she had a giant post giving reads on everyone, but Sens wasn't mentioned, even though she proclaimed two other people as town. There is no FOS or anything on Sens, but he garnered a few votes and she kind of just danced around it. I also don't think the choice to investigate Sens was a good one.

I don't really believe Cyberbob's claim either. His claim is way too convenient, tracking the dead guy. Getting blocked. Now tracking Socrates, who I think is town. Possible he's a scum tracker, or other scum role.

I also semi believe DDD. I can't imagine he would claim to be a third doctor if he was scum. I'm actually surprised no one has brought up the fact that there are two more claimed doctors on top of the dead one. On the other hand, his choice to kill mathcam was a really poor one.

Basically, I think DDD and Socrates are more likely to be town and the roles they are claiming, than Hoopla and Cyberbob. Plus, I easily, EASILY,

EASILY

see Sens hiding behind Cyberbob and to a lesser extent Hoopla, which would explain his death. I think Cyberbob is miles ahead of le Chat in terms of who would get hidden behind.

The only thing I am wondering about, is if we should no lynch today and force Cyberbob and DDD to produce another night of results. However, I think the alternative of leaving Raskol to decide tomorrow isn't worth it.

[Cyberbob]

I don't really believe Cyberbob's claim either. His claim is way too convenient, tracking the dead guy. Getting blocked. Now tracking Socrates, who I think is town. Possible he's a scum tracker, or other scum role.

I really love it when people think a claim is "convenient" because of circumstances beyond their control.

- 50% of the players in the game are dead. It's not really fair to say "heh you just picked a dead guy to track" with odds like that.
- I don't really see how claiming a roleblock on N2 helps me.
- As far as Socrates goes, that is a completely subjective call. I'm not entirely sure why you think basing a complete dismissal of my choice to track him on something like that is good practice.

I'd like to be able to prove myself tonight, but I can tell you're not seeing that as an option. Whatever. It's a little disappointing to see the town throw this game away, but I've got exams coming up soon anyway so *shrug*

[Hoopla]

How was I supposed to interact with Sens - on the times I disagreed with his play I gave him an out saying it didn't bother me. I agree my D2 play didn't reflect his innocence exactly, but I probably would have attacked him if I didn't know his alignment.

Why are you using no decodable breadcrumb as an argument against me? Nobody else breadcrumbed - and if I was actually fakeclaiming I'm sure I could do a lot better than claiming JOAT.

If you haven't already, I'd advise you to reread parts of the thread from both sides - Cyberbob/Hoopla scum, and DDD/Socrates scum.

[charter]

I don't really believe Cyberbob's claim either. His claim is way too convenient, tracking the dead guy. Getting blocked. Now tracking Socrates, who I think is town. Possible he's a scum tracker, or other scum role.

I really love it when people think a claim is "convenient" because of circumstances beyond their control.

- 50% of the players in the game are dead. It's not really fair to say "heh you just picked a dead guy to track" with odds like that.
- I don't really see how claiming a roleblock on N2 helps me.
- As far as Socrates goes, that is a completely subjective call. I'm not entirely sure why you think basing a complete dismissal of my choice to track him on something like that is good practice.

I'd like to be able to prove myself tonight, but I can tell you're not seeing that as an option. Whatever. It's a little disappointing to see the town throw this game away, but I've got exams coming up soon anyway so *shrug*

It's that you tracked someone who has already claimed their night action for that night, not that you claimed on someone who was dead, my bad. Though I reread after Cathart claimed, and it seems like you did track him, but it doesn't mean you can't be a scum tracker.

Hoopla, it's that your supposed breadcrumbs are so vague that it seems like you just found them to reinforce your claim when you made it, not so that the town could figure out what you did if you were NKed. Not breadcrumbing is fine, but yours looked faked.

Like I said, pretty sure it's Cyberbob/Hoopla, but upon reflection, forcing everyone to come up with another night of actions would be good. I also think that we shouldn't talk about any night actions for tonight anymore (to try and figure out if someone will by lying tomorrow).

vote no lynch

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Like I said, pretty sure it's Cyberbob/Hoopla, but upon reflection, forcing everyone to come up with another night of actions would be good. I also think that we shouldn't talk about any night actions for tonight anymore (to try and figure out if someone will by lying tomorrow).

vote no lynch

I already outlined what's going to happen, be sensible about this, a no lynch does us no good. Trust your freaking reads and don't hand the game over to Raskol who has played terribly this game.

[Cyberbob]

It's that you tracked someone who has already claimed their night action for that night, not that you claimed on someone who was dead, my bad.

This is still something beyond my control.

I also think that we shouldn't talk about any night actions for tonight anymore (to try and figure out if someone will by lying tomorrow).

Great, so I'm pretty much guaranteed to get roleblocked by Socrates again and therefore lynched tomorrow. Because I won't have a result for you and I know you won't want to believe my story.

---

By the way, where's the suspicion on DDD for claiming doc/vig that

just happened

to be used on mathcam last night? Oh and by the way he also

just happened

to have "tried" to kill Vaya/Socrates on Night 2 but oh wait that attempt failed.

Seriously, apply your methods to his claim and see what happens.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

By the way, where's the suspicion on DDD for claiming doc/vig that

just happened

to be used on mathcam last night? Oh and by the way he also

just happened

to have "tried" to kill Vaya/Socrates on Night 2 but oh wait that attempt failed.

Seriously, apply your methods to his claim and see what happens.

Yeah okay, my role fits the flavor of the game better, fits neatly with the rather obscure role of Hot Nurse, doesn't overpower the town like combination JOAT/tracker would, and my one night action that was my own fits quite clearly with what I expressed my feelings were on D3.

The final nail in the coffin, I claimed extra information in regards to both nights two and three before you claimed to be blocked on night two and Hoopla claimed to be blocked on night three. Besides being blocked what other information could I possibly had to share about those night actions? I left the truth out in plain sight and you and Hoopla tried to get around it, but you got caught.

[Cyberbob]

Yeah okay, my role fits the flavor of the game better

I don't see how; Tracker pretty much perfectly embodies the idealistic rugged survivalist image which is a staple of these sorts of exaggerated Cold War scenarios.

fits neatly with the rather obscure role of Hot Nurse, doesn't overpower the town like combination JOAT/tracker would,

How does RB/Doctor + Doctor + Vig/Doctor at all go together better than RB/Doctor + Doctor + Tracker + JOAT?

and my one night action that was my own fits quite clearly with what I expressed my feelings were on D3.

This describes my first two actions perfectly (and I already explained about the third)

The final nail in the coffin, I claimed extra information in regards to both nights two and three before you claimed to be blocked on night two and Hoopla claimed to be blocked on night three. Besides being blocked what other information could I possibly had to share about those night actions? I left the truth out in plain sight and you and Hoopla tried to get around it, but you got caught.

This is all shit that is beyond our control. You are being ridiculously thick.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

A) We're not in some post-apocalyptic dystopia or the Wild West, we're in Anytown, USA. (Apparently an Anytown, USA with a hospital nearby).

B) Dodges addressing the obvious symmetry of Doc/RB and Doc/Vig. And when you stack a tracker, a JOAT, and a hider together you've got three investigative roles on one side, it greatly reducing the town's necessity of actually scum hunting correctly in favor of a few power roles correctly identifying scum. With the Doc/Vig replacing the lying fake tracker and JOAT the town has a minor investigative role in the hider, but other than that has possibly useful pieces and parts in the triple (partial) docs, but nothing that strong.

C) Didn't say your fake night actions didn't make sense for what you'd said only that you were trying to turn it around on me and my actions matched my words.

D) You're right it was beyond your control that the mod told me he that I was being blocked. Not sure why he felt the need, but I appreciate the thought and how it helped expose you two as the lying scum you are.

~~~

Charter, it's time to be like Spike Lee and do the right thing.

[Raskol]

Well, I see we have another terrible case from charter. There was nothing wrong with Hoopla's play D2 to suggest she didn't think Sens was innocent, and while your point that Hoopla could have made false breadcrumbs or made some up afterwards is decent, it wouldn't be enough to convince me if you were the only one who was trying to.

However...

Yeah okay,

my role fits the flavor of the game better

, fits neatly with the rather obscure role of Hot Nurse,

doesn't overpower the town

like combination JOAT/tracker would, and my one night action that was my own fits quite clearly with what I expressed my feelings were on D3.

The bolded are pretty decent points. Let's look at what the setup would be like under the truth of both possible teams' claims.

If Danny/Socrates are truthful:

Coward
Hot Nurse
Combat Medic
Doctor
5x VT
1x goon, 1x Mafia Roleblocker
1 unspecified mafia

If Cyberbob/Hoopla are truthful:

Coward
Hot Nurse
JOAT
Tracker
Doctor
4x VT
1x goon, 1x mafia roleblocker
1 unspecified mafia

We have a pretty powerful town and quite a swingy setup either way, but the H/C setup is a bit much for me. 5x power roles is a lot, especially since there's so little potential danger in the roles we would have. Having a vig in the setup adds the potential for townkills which can really hurt town a lot. If I'm looking at a setup with plenty of townie PRs, I think one with double-edged roles like vig is what I'm looking for. True, the JOAT brings a vig to the table, but only one, which limits how much a bad player can hurt the town with it and also makes them more likely to be careful than an unlimited vig.

Additionally, tracker and a JOAT with an investigation in a game with a pseudo-investigator (hider) adds way too much information power to a town with so many protects. I don't think anyone would call such a setup balanced.

Cyberbob/Hoopla---what do you think could be in the third mafia slot to balance your setup?

The final nail in the coffin, I claimed extra information in regards to both nights two and three before you claimed to be blocked on night two and Hoopla claimed to be blocked on night three. Besides being blocked what other information could I possibly had to share about those night actions? I left the truth out in plain sight and you and Hoopla tried to get around it, but you got caught.

This is close to damning. The one thing that was holding me back wrt Danny was that he may have made his mood-pm evidence up on the spot to save Socrates after I was questioning him in a way that looked like I would vote him. Now that he's pointed this out, I don't think that can be the case. The fact that he wrote "attempted" especially makes it pretty clear that he had this in mind the whole time.

As I said yesterday, I don't think I can support a Socrates lynch. I had to test his reactions today by making him sweat a bit just because I had to make sure, but I don't think I have enough of to go on to counter my overwhelming evidence that Socrates is innocent. He would have had to truly slip up badly today for me to consider lynching him. But he didn't.

[charter]

Raskol, what the fuck are you talking about? Have you ever seen a cop play before? Hoopla's day two play is nothing like a cop's play.

I gave you guys the chance to no lynch, but all you want to do is yell at me, so

unvote

.

Raskol, also if you play 'which setup is more likely' you're probably going to lose, don't do that.

I really don't have anything else to say, just wait a little bit before voting Cyberbob. Let him sweat some.

[Cyberbob]

Let him sweat some.

Heh, great spirit of the game you've got going there my friend!

[charter]

Alright then

vote Cyberbob

[Raskol]

Actually, I've seen quite a few cops before. Guess what---they don't act the same. Different people play it differently, and good players will never play it the same way twice. There's no such thing as "a cop's play", except at the vaguest possible level. There are things no cop would ever do on an investigation target, but Hoopla didn't do any of them.

As for advising people to ignore the setup---well, that's not something I'm likely to listen to.

That's all moot, though. Your points don't need to be any good for this to be a good lynch.

unvote

Vote: Cyberbob

[Kublai Khan]

End of Day 4 Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

Cyberbob

- 4 - Socrates, Debonair Danny DiPietro, charter, Raskol - (L-0)

Socrates

- 1 - Cyberbob - (L-3)

Players not voting: Hoopla

[Kublai Khan]

"I'm a tracker" said Cyberbob.

"a what?" said someone in the town.

"Tracker. I follow people, see where they go, take notes, report back to headquart--.. er.. uh.."

"A-ha! Commie! Lynch 'im!"

Cyberbob is quickly strung up. A happily sated town drinks merrily and falls into a sound sleep.

Cyberbob, Mafia Anti-Doctor, Lynched Day 4.

Night Choices due in 48 hours (Countdown).

[Kublai Khan]

The sun rose again on sleepy Anytown, U.S.A., but this time there was something different in the air. The sound of birds chirping was sweeter, water tasted purer, baseball was actually interesting to watch.. What changed overnight?

Well, the first clue was Lance Corporal Danny DiPietro hoisting an unmolested American flag in it's proper place. He pulled the lit stogy from his mouth and tapped some ashes from the end.

"I've solved your little problem" he said.

The remaining living members of the town excitedly rushed up to him to learn more. Ignoring the corpse of Dr. Charter lying murdered in the street.

"Tell us, Mr. DiPietro, are we safe?"

"Yeah, I killed the last commie. This town is safe, but I'm moving on to the next town... A vig's work is never done."

Charter - Doctor - Killed Night 4

Hoopla - Mafia Roleblocker - Killed Night 4

---

Congratulations! Town wins! Raskol, Debonair Danny DiPietro, and Socrates survive the endgame!

Roles & Night Choices coming up in next post.

Green Room link: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/xjkGkAMyGSC2J
Scum Link: (Up to the scum team if they wish to reveal)

[Kublai Khan]

Vanilla Townie

(Raskol, Socrates, Talitha, SerialClergyman, mathcam)

Flavor:

You're an Average Joe. You may not know how to do anything special for your country, but by-God you love her and you will use your American Public Education to find the filthy commies and your Good Christian Moral Conscience to lynch the bastards.

Role Title:

Pro-Town Vanilla Townie

Night Abilities:

None

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

---

Doctor

(charter)

Flavor:

You're a proud American. What's more, you've got a medical degree. With your trusty medical bag and the recent discovery of penicillin you can save someone from death, but only if you happen to be nearby at the time of the attack. So choose your target wisely.

Role Title:

Pro-Town Doctor

Night Abilities:

You may target a player to be protected, this will protect them from one kill for one night. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill.

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

---

Combat Medic

(Debonair Danny DiPietro)

Flavor:

You're a proud American. What's more, you're a veteran combat medic. Ever since the Commie invasion of your town you've been pretty conflicted. Should you uphold the Hippocratic Oath and protect the citizens of your town? Or should you uphold your Pledge of Allegiance and murder those evil commies? Decisions, decisions...

Role Title:

Pro-Town Combat Medic

Night Abilities:

You may target a player to be protected, this will protect them from one kill for one night. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill.

- OR -

You may target a player, thus killing them.

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

---

Coward

(SensFan)

Flavor:

Commies?!?!? Oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap...

Role Title:

Pro-Town Coward

Night Abilities:

You may hide, thus preventing any abilities that target you for the current night phase. You cannot use this ability on two consecutive nights. Nothing can prevent you from using this ability.

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

---

Hot Nurse

(Col. Cathart)

Flavor:

You're a proud American. What's more, you're smoking hot and you know it. You've been trained in the medical field, but that can be boring. Sometimes a girl just likes to show a little ankle to totally distract impressionable men. Of course if you're out wooing the boys, you can't do your job. What's a girl to do?

Role Title:

Pro-Town Hot Nurse

Night Abilities:

You may target a player to be protected, this will protect them from one kill for one night. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill.

- OR -

You may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions will fail for the current night phase. The targeted player will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing [Blocked] if they attemped to use a night action.

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

---

Mafia Anti-Doctor

(CyberBob)

Flavor:

Greetings comrade! You are Mother Russia's top espionage expert and have succeeded in disguising yourself as an orderly. You've watched how those capitalist pig-dog doctors protect their patients at night and you've worked out a way to use it against them...

Your partners are [Player] & [Player]. You can communicate with them here:

Role:

Anti-Town Anti-Doctor

Night Abilities:

You may target a player, thus killing them only if they have been protected.

- OR -

You may choose to conduct the group night-kill.

Win Condition:

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

---

Mafia Goon

(Peabody)

Flavor:

Greetings comrade! You have successfully infiltrated the town and are itching to show these weak puny Americans the real strength of Mother Russia.

Your partners are [Player] & [Player]. You can communicate with them here:

Role:

Anti-Town Goon

Night Abilities:

You may choose to conduct the group night-kill.

Win Condition:

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

---

Mafia Roleblocker

(Hoopla)

Flavor:

Greetings comrade! Those imperialist pig-dogs will bow to the superior power of the Communist party. Mother Russia has thought well to equip you with some powerful ether. With it you can knock out someone for the night then go about your business.

Your partners are [Player] & [Player]. You can communicate with them here:

Role:

Anti-Town Roleblocker

Night Abilities:

You may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions will fail for the current night phase. The targeted player will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing [Blocked] if they attempted to use a night action.

- OR -

You may choose to conduct the group night-kill.

Win Condition:

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

[Kublai Khan]

Mod Notes:
Coward could not be roleblocked
Role Resolution: Roleblocking (Town, then Mafia) -> Protects -> Kills (simul)

Night Choices
Night 1:
Mafia Roleblocker - Hoopla - Roleblock SensFan
Mafia Anti-Doctor - Cyberbob - Nightkill Talitha
Combat Medic - le Chat - Protect Cyberbob
Doctor - charter - Protect Cyberbob
Coward - SensFan - Did Not Hide
Hot Nurse - Col. Cathart - Roleblock Vaya

Role Resolution Result: Vaya blocked, SensFan blocked (no effect), Cyberbob protected, Talitha Nightkilled.

Night 2:
Mafia Roleblocker - Hoopla - roleblock le Chat
Mafia Anti-Doctor - Cyberbob - Kill SensFan
Combat Medic - le Chat - Kill Vaya
Doctor - charter - Protect mathcam
Coward - SensFan - Did Not Hide

Role Resolution Result: le Chat blocked, mathcam protected, SensFan killed

Night 3:
Mafia Roleblocker - Hoopla - roleblock Debonair Danny DiPietro
Mafia Anti-Doctor - Cyberbob - Kill mathcam
Combat Medic - Debonair Danny DiPietro - Kill mathcam
Doctor - charter - Protect Socrates

Role Resolution Result: Debonair Danny DiPietro blocked, Socrates protected, mathcam killed

Night 4:
Mafia Roleblocker - Hoopla - kill charter
Combat Medic - Debonair Danny DiPietro - kill Hoopla
Doctor - charter - Protect Socrates

Role Resolution Result: Socrates protected, charter & hoopla killed