Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[Raskol]

Well, I will say at least this: it has a much better chance of helping our position if I don't explain how it helps our position.

[Raskol]

Actually, let me say one more thing: the only scenario in which no lynch doesn't turn into a town auto-win leaves us off no worse than we are now.

And that's seriously going to be it.

[Hoopla]

Well, I will say at least this: it has a much better chance of helping our position if I don't explain how it helps our position.

So, we just go out on a limb and blindly trust you? Even if your intentions are pure, they could still be wrong and costly. And what if you were to die?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Here's how a no lynch goes: I attempt to kill Hoopla-scum. They roleblock me for a third straight time because if I die then the game is over for them and Hoopla's death also blows open the game for the town. They've built Socrates as the other lynch candidate so they'll keep him alive because his death indicts Cyberbob. Charter-doc will protect his one town read in you Raskol and then get iced himself.

So if we're going to do this we might as well do it now because I don't think that scenario helps us at all unless you've got some super-secret plan that you're not telling us.

[charter]

Yeah, no lynch isn't going to help us out any.

I have a big post coming, but first Cyberbob needs to explain why he tracked who he did.

[Raskol]

Well, you're right, Danny. It doesn't help us at all if it goes like that. Which is exactly why it would have been best not to let anyone know how to make it not help.

I don't think that scenario would hurt terribly if it did happen---after all, from my POV it would be exactly the way it is now, except I don't have to convince charter to go my way if it comes down to the hard choice. And after all, there's always the chance scum wouldn't have thought it through thoroughly and handed me the win.

There's not much point in doing it now, though. Scratch it.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

[charter]

Well, you're right, Danny. It doesn't help us at all if it goes like that. Which is exactly why it would have been best not to let anyone know how to make it not help.

I don't think that scenario would hurt terribly if it did happen---after all, from my POV it would be exactly the way it is now, except I don't have to convince charter to go my way if it comes down to the hard choice. And after all, there's always the chance scum wouldn't have thought it through thoroughly and handed me the win.

There's not much point in doing it now, though. Scratch it.

Frankly, I don't trust anyone who self votes to pick right at lylo. And scum would obviously have thought of that plan as well.

[Hoopla]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

[Raskol]

So anyway, Charter and I really are cleared now. It's now pretty obvious that the scumteam is either Cyberbob/Hoopla or Danny/Socrates.

On the bright side, this means we only have to make the right choice once. After that, no need to worry overmuch about who the scumpartner is.

[Hoopla]

So anyway, Charter and I really are cleared now. It's now pretty obvious that the scumteam is either Cyberbob/Hoopla or Danny/Socrates.

On the bright side, this means we only have to make the right choice once. After that, no need to worry overmuch about who the scumpartner is.

Barring an elaborate gambit by DDD where he is Cyberbob's buddy, bussing to incriminate me and set-up my lynch tomorrow - then yes, those are the only real plausible scum teams.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

I want to know.

Also, I reread some, and I am about 90% sure Hoopla is scum. But must wait for Cyberbob first.

[Hoopla]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

I want to know.

Also, I reread some, and I am about 90% sure Hoopla is scum. But must wait for Cyberbob first.

Based on what?

[Raskol]

I wouldn't mind hearing that either.

And from Danny, why he found mathcam so suspicious.

Need to hear Socrates' response to all this as well.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

I want to know.

Also, I reread some, and I am about 90% sure Hoopla is scum.

But must wait for Cyberbob first.

[charter]

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

A few reasons. I didn't like his jump on the Peabody wagon - I thought if anyone was bussing, it would probably have been his vote. He was the one that put him at L-1. Second was the way he buttered up toward me at the end of D1, every time I've played with him as town we always get into petty fights, so I found it kind of odd. And third, because I find him hard to read.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And from Danny, why he found mathcam so suspicious.

My trend analysis picked him up as highly likely scum, from there he fell into a too easy lynch on day two and seemed to be undercontributing and just content to snipe at the easy and incorrect targets of le chat and then both you and I on day three.

[Socrates]

Okay, so Cyberbob is scum and in order for Raskol to be scum then {Charter, Hoopla, DDD} would all be town, which would mean 5 pro-town power roles, which seems like too many. This means that Raskol is probably town.

So one of {Charter, Hoopla, DDD} is the other scum from this perspective.

I need to think more, but based upon people's reactions to the mass claim, I am more inclined to think that DDD is town because he would have to be pulling some kind of gambit and bussing Cyberbob to be scum at this point.

I need to look at the claimed night actions again.

Well since I am vanilla, I know for a fact that cyberbob is lying, so he must be scum to me.

How does the (supposed) fact that you're vanilla have anything to do with how

you

know that Cyberbob is lying? I mean, do you think people often think to themselves in their heads---"Wait, I'm vanilla! Cyberbob must be lying!" Or did you think: Cyberbob said I was at Hoopla's last night? Bullshit! He's lying scum!"

Also, the way you phrased this---"so he must be scum to me" is a little strange.

Overall, it sounds like you're trying to reason through what you would be thinking if you

were

a vanilla townie---not like you're reacting spontaneously

as

a vanilla townie.

Eh? My thought process was "I didn't target ANYONE last night, because I am vanilla. He is lying scum!" I didn't even read who he said I targeted at first because the mere fact that he claimed I could target is a lie. The fact that I am vanilla is proof that Cyberbob was lying.

IOW, you're approaching your vanilla-townie self as an outsider would. You posted something that I can see myself thinking

about

you---you know, from the outside. This is the kind of thought process people have when they're thinking about things they're unsure of, or that they know are fictional. It's probably my favorite "stylistic scumtell".

Dude, I need to prove it to you guys. I don't need to prove it to myself, so of course I am going to argue it from an outsider's perspective.

Interesting that he claims he tracked me to Hoopla, as this would mean he is implying that I am a scum roleblocker, or something.

I don't remember cyberbob saying anything like that, or even hinting at it. It may be implied by his posts, but he gave no sign that he recognized that.

The reason this is relevant is that of the two of you, you were the first to bring up the idea of a mafia roleblocker. You did it defensively, too. Not the greatest thing for you imo, though I don't find it as telling as the above quote.

What other role could I possibly have in the situation that cyberbob is claiming? He is saying I targeted Hoopla who's kill did not go through. Try thinking before you post.

[Socrates]

Socrates, I protected you since you were the ONLY person no one was considering scum. You seemed like the obvious NK, and you might have been if DDD is town.

I know, I understand the logic, but remember that I had already claimed vanilla, and going into lylo they only need one suspicious person the get mislynched. It wouldn't be unreasonable for scum to attempt to kill a power role instead of me.

WAIT! That doesn't necessarily incriminate Hoopla as since both DDD and Hoopla have claimed blocked actions, so even if one is lying there is still probably a scum roleblocker.

Scum probably DO have a roleblocker, and Cyberbob is trying to make me out to be him. Was anyone blocked night 1? That would shoot that theory down right now, as I was roleblocked myself then.

Half the town is dead. Anyone could have been roleblocked on night 1 and taken it to the grave. Or a vanilla could have been blocked.

I know, I was just hoping that someone could say that, as it would be a big help to proving that Cyberbob is lying.

[Socrates]

I need to think more, but based upon people's reactions to the mass claim, I am more inclined to think that DDD is town because he would have to be pulling some kind of gambit and bussing Cyberbob to be scum at this point.

Note that this also applies to charter.

[Raskol]

What other role could I possibly have in the situation that cyberbob is claiming? He is saying I targeted Hoopla who's kill did not go through. Try thinking before you post.

Trust me, I did think before I posted. A bit more than you did, apparently (yet again).

You could have been a mafia doc targeting Hoopla, your scumpartner, who actually targeted mathcam and was lying about the DDD vig.

Of course, that's off the table now, with the new info that's come since then. But at the time it was a definite possibility.

I'm satisfied with your explanation as to your wording; it fits with what I expected if I was wrong.

[charter]

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

A few reasons. I didn't like his jump on the Peabody wagon - I thought if anyone was bussing, it would probably have been his vote. He was the one that put him at L-1. Second was the way he buttered up toward me at the end of D1, every time I've played with him as town we always get into petty fights, so I found it kind of odd. And third, because I find him hard to read.

Interesting. Is there any reason you didn't investigate Coco or Vaya, or vig either of those two?

[charter]

Or why you repeatedly didn't vig Vaya or Coco?

[Cyberbob]

(sorry about the delay, I went to bed after my last post and only just woke up)

In answer to your question charter:

- I tracked Cathart N1 because even though I found CoCo scummier at that time, Cathart's play was such a confusing mix of scumminess and the occasional good pro-town post that I wanted to see whether I could figure him out the most.
- N2 I (attempted to) track CoCo because I really really thought he was scum and I could tell that I was going to have a hard time convincing certain people (mathcam etc) of my case without something more solid.
- N3 I tracked Socrates because of the reasons I mentioned before: I had reasonably good reads on everyone except for him, and with us being in LyLo/No Lynch today I wanted to figure him out one way or the other. I had completely forgotten about Vaya's previous claim, but even if I had remembered I'm not sure that I still wouldn't have tracked him.